is a degree over rated

VAHokie56

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST

Take this story and remove the the degree and add the " i got x certs" instead and you will have the other side of the argument. That's why I say it depends on who you ask. Lots of way to skin a cat , it really comes down to you and the person sitting on the other side of the desk/phone when it comes to getting a job.

CISPhD

@VAHokie56: A very cogent argument. Perhaps some additional feedback from the OP can point everyone in the right direction.

tpatt100

Depends on how much money you actually have to pay for it like parents, scholarships, work, etc. My wife's parents paid for her four year degree to a state university. She works for a major university with ok pay but benefits that blow mine out of the water like a 2 for 1 match 401K and two weeks family medical leave, etc, etc.

Her cost? Nothing, did it help her get her current job and previous? Yes, so for her it was worth it.

I took out student loans, used the GI Bill, National Guard tuition assistance, employer reimbursement for most of my certs and college. Was it worth it? Yes

If I was a single parent with limited funds and the only option was a bunch of student loan debt to go to a private for profit school? heck no

If I was a single parent with limited funds but willing to spend a decade going part time with grants and recycling tax credits for school? Worth it.

It's always different for different people.

pinkydapimp

Just some food for thought. I was talking to a friend today. Two people they know were working for a company that was taken over by another company. I don't have the full details but apparently folks were told that if they do not currently have a 4 year degree, they may be laid off.

Things like this happen.

wes allen

Some good links and conversation - Just Say No To College - Slashdot

Main Event

It's either a degree or race but one is definitely a issue when it comes to I.T jobs. IT is just a different beast all together, degrees don't hold much weight at all.

IT is all about who you know, it's a very different field than others where a degree holds much more weight.

TheCudder

Not having a degree is a great reason for a company to under pay you early in your career.

phalx

It depends completely on the location and position you are seeking. In my market, the majority of jobs (aside from help desk) require a BA/BS, and it often doesn't matter what it is in, just that you have one). If you can't afford to obtain a degree I would recommend some lower level certs and trying to get your foot in the door in an entry-level position (although you will probably have to do this without experience anyway, unless you have exceptional interview skills or connections). However, I would agree that degrees have lost some of their value. That being said, they have lost value because so many people are getting them, they are becoming the new high-school diploma.

CISPhD

wes allen wrote: »

Some good links and conversation - Just Say No To College - Slashdot

Nothing personal to you wes, but this has to be the most asinine thing I have seen in some time...

Main Event wrote: »

It's either a degree or race but one is definitely a issue when it comes to I.T jobs. IT is just a different beast all together, degrees don't hold much weight at all.

IT is all about who you know, it's a very different field than others where a degree holds much more weight.

As a hiring manager, I'll say degrees hold quite a bit of weight. For me, they demonstrate that a person is teachable, persistent in their work, and has the initiative to pursue a seemingly insurmountable effort. While experience is quite important, I often award a sort of "2 to 1" ratio on school to work experience. 2 years of schooling is an equivalent to 1 year of work experience. While not an exact formula, it certainly has a weight in who I bring in for a face to face interview versus who ends up weighing down my filing cabinet.

phalx wrote: »

That being said, they have lost value because so many people are getting them, they are becoming the new high-school diploma.

Then get a higher degree. Less than 1% of the world's population is either a double master's degree or doctoral graduate. That'll put you ahead of the nerd herd.

dave330i

phalx wrote: »

That being said, they have lost value because so many people are getting them, they are becoming the new high-school diploma.

Not all degrees are equal. See post #2.

MAC_Addy

Degrees are not over rated. End of story.

VAHokie56

I agree with Dave. I have an associates in Turf grass management...yet I still get 2 to 10 calls a week due to my experience and cert's...going to venture they do not much care that I can maintain the finest lawn on the block

pinkydapimp

That would be awesome if someone asked you about your lawn in an interview. "one last question sir. Tell me your strengths and weaknesses.................when it comes to maintaining your lawn?"

VAHokie56

lol I would love that. In one or two interviews they do ask about it and why I moved fields...then when I tell them I used to be a Ast. superintendent on a golf course and got off work everyday at 2:30pm played 9 holes and went home they are like " you went into IT,why?!?!?!" and to answer anyone who is wondering why themselves...Money.

Kreken

I don't think it is overrated. Why would it be? Just because you could get a decent job with a high school diploma back in 60's and now you need to BS/BA to get a foot in the door? Well, times and technology has changed quite a bit compared to 60's or even to 90's. The jobs became more specialized. The companies now need to invest in the training of their employees, be it formal or OJT. One indicator that a person can be trained is a Bachelor's degree. After all, what is BS/BA education? It is "monkey see, monkey do".

If you want to stand out, get an MS degree because it is a completely different ball game. I went to NYU for my MS and I can roughly describe the difference between my BS and MS level of education as comparing a middle school to a college. The expectations are quite high and there is absolutely no hand holding. I can honestly say that my MS degree did a lot for me besides giving a solid framework on which I can build further with ease.

Was MS expensive? Hell yeah, $3,500 per class. But between GI Bill and a scholarship, my total loan was $24K which I already payed out. 24K for Masters degree is doable and affordable.

PurpleIT

CISPhD wrote: »

As a hiring manager, I'll say degrees hold quite a bit of weight. For me, they demonstrate that a person is teachable, persistent in their work, and has the initiative to pursue a seemingly insurmountable effort. While experience is quite important, I often award a sort of "2 to 1" ratio on school to work experience. 2 years of schooling is an equivalent to 1 year of work experience. While not an exact formula, it certainly has a weight in who I bring in for a face to face interview versus who ends up weighing down my filing cabinet.

Lots of good points here and they all point to my decision to get a degree right now. When a job posting states that education may be substituted with experience you don't always know if they are giving you 1-for-1 credit. I recently saw a job that was very appealing to me, but it clearly stated a 2-for-1 experience to education ratio. When my 14 years experience becomes 6 I no longer have as good of a chance to stand out from the crowd and my chances of getting such a job are greatly diminished.

wes allen

Did you read the comments? A lot of really good counterpoints there, thus I said good conversation, not the best path for everyone.

But, if your goals are to be a slave in a cube / small office in the middle of the soul sucking hell that is is corporate America, then by all means, a degree is a must for that path. There are a lot of paths in life, and not everyone wants to end up doing 40+ hour weeks, 50 weeks a year, for years/decades on end.

If you are one of the people that would be more proud of how many days a year you *don't* work then your pay grade / title, then maybe, just maybe, a degree is not as important as just looking at life and your options a little bit differently.

You have said your goal is a C-level job, and that is cool for you. My goal is to continue to work an average of 2-3 days a week, with maybe a few more years of full time work tossed in here and there. But, I have absolutely no desire for a life in a job like you, and many others, want.

That said, some of the best comments mentioned that even if Jobs, Gates, etc dropped out to form their companies, you would almost for sure need a degree to go work for those companies today.

CISPhD wrote: »

Nothing personal to you wes, but this has to be the most asinine thing I have seen in some time...



As a hiring manager, I'll say degrees hold quite a bit of weight. For me, they demonstrate that a person is teachable, persistent in their work, and has the initiative to pursue a seemingly insurmountable effort. While experience is quite important, I often award a sort of "2 to 1" ratio on school to work experience. 2 years of schooling is an equivalent to 1 year of work experience. While not an exact formula, it certainly has a weight in who I bring in for a face to face interview versus who ends up weighing down my filing cabinet.



Then get a higher degree. Less than 1% of the world's population is either a double master's degree or doctoral graduate. That'll put you ahead of the nerd herd.

VAHokie56

PurpleIT wrote: »

Lots of good points here and they all point to my decision to get a degree right now. When a job posting states that education may be substituted with experience you don't always know if they are giving you 1-for-1 credit. I recently saw a job that was very appealing to me, but it clearly stated a 2-for-1 experience to education ratio. When my 14 years experience becomes 6 I no longer have as good of a chance to stand out from the crowd and my chances of getting such a job are greatly diminished.

With out knowing to much about you I would say if you have 14 years of XP with all of those certs you have listed. You should be able to get a well paying job with out needing a degree in IT.

PurpleIT

VAHokie56 wrote: »

With out knowing to much about you I would say if you have 14 years of XP with all of those certs you have listed. You should be able to get a well paying job with needing a degree in IT.

Well... I would tend to agree with you, but I want to get a job in a different state, boost my pay, and just generally upgrade my professional life. A degree is only going to help and while I know the job market is better now than the last time I seriously looked (20 months ago), things are still tight enough that I need every little advantage I can get given the challenges of a long-distance job hunt.

VAHokie56

hmmfp wondering why having a degree would vary in helping you get a job from state to state? if you want a degree then by all means go get one, I doubt it will ever hurt you ( aside from financially ) my thing is I know people who use going back to school as a crutch because they cannot face the job market and getting back in school is just a way to prolong having search for a job and possible disappointment. Steer away from that mentality and you will be fine.

tpatt100

Call of Duty helped me get a job a few years ago. Manager asked me if I played any games online and when I brought up COD we started talking about weapons and perks. So sometimes it is just personality that gives you that edge

PurpleIT

VAHokie56 wrote: »

hmmfp wondering why having a degree would vary in helping you get a job from state to state? if you want a degree then by all means go get one, I doubt it will ever hurt you ( aside from financially ) my thing is I know people who use going back to school as a crutch because they cannot face the job market and getting back in school is just a way to prolong having search for a job and possible disappointment. Steer away from that mentality and you will be fine.

I'm just biding my time until the school year ends (for the kids) and will actually start looking seriously in late March or so. As for why a degree would help when looking in another state, well, it helps me stand out just that much more. IME most companies don't want the hassle of getting someone from another state if there are plenty of local people available. They worry that will I want relocation costs and wonder if I will really move if they invest time in pursuing me? Will there be hassles as I try to balance a new job with moving and house hunting? etc, etc, etc...

As for the financial hit, I plan to be done in one semester at WGU and the $3000 is well worth it if I get to live in a place I actually like; besides, who know what doors it may open in the future? There is also a personal accomplishment factor in all of this; as much as having a degree may show a hiring manager it also shows me that I can do what I set out to do; that I while I may not have travelled down the path I thought I would when I started college many years ago I can still reach that ultimate goal. It's also a great example to set for my kids and that is worth a lot more than the time and money I will invest in school.

eserfeliz

Aside from our personal opinions, do a little test for yourself.

Look up jobs that you think you qualify for or that fit the career path you'd like to pursue. Look for yourself to see what the requirements for the position are.

If there are a greater number of jobs that explicitly require a college degree than those that do not, perhaps you have your answer (although not a definitive one).

networker050184

I don't think that would be an accurate test. Pretty much every job I've had 'required' a degree according to the job description and I don't have one. I think that line is basically just a copy/paste in job adds these days.

VAHokie56

Same. Both of my last jobs as a Network Engineer I was hired at stated I had to have a B.S in comp science or information systems...as I stated earlier all I am sporting is a associates in Turf

eserfeliz

My company won't give you an interview without one. I applied here for many years, three weeks after graduation, they hired me.

Everyone has an anecdote that supports their world view. My point was not to promote individual experiences, which is largely irrelevant to the OP's question, but to give a broader answer, which you supplied. Most employers (hiring managers, HR departments, whatever) are requesting that their employees be college educated. Is it a hard and fast rule? It depends on the company. Where I work, there is a deficit of technical workers with IT degrees. So they bring people in to the country on H1B visas, because an undergraduate/graduate degree is that important to their requirements.

networker050184

eserfeliz wrote: »

Most employers (hiring managers, HR departments, whatever) are requesting that their employees be college educated.

I think it's more just the standard line. Kind of like every job says the person needs 'excellent communication skills' and that it is an 'exciting opportunity' regardless of how exciting it is or how much communicating you need to do.

eserfeliz wrote: »

My company won't give you an interview without one.

I've heard people here where I work say that as well. Obviously not true! Some places definitely require a degree, but I'd say that is far more the exception than the rule in the IT industry.

PurpleIT

networker050184 wrote: »

I've heard people here where I work say that as well. Obviously not true! Some places definitely require a degree, but I'd say that is far more the exception than the rule in the IT industry.

So to bring this full circle, is a degree overrated or not?

As with most things in life there is no black & white answer, it's all shades of gray... "it depends".

networker050184

Something being 'overrated' comes down to nothing but individual opinion. I wouldn't say degrees are overrated because I honestly don't rate them that high on a list of things needed to make a successful career in this industry.

Michael2

A degree shows that you have the level of competency necessary for your field. Now if you're going into Marketing or Engineering, you want at least a Bachelor's degree (nowadays a Master's is preferred). In fields like IT, however, I think an Associate's should be sufficient as long as it's backed up with the right certs.