Lack of formal education is killing me. Seeking advice.

purplefuzz

Hi all,

I've been a lurker here for the past few weeks but finally registered making this my first thread and to hopefully get some helpful advice.

I'm 27 and I've been working in and around computers almost my entire life. I know the in's and out's of computer hardware extremely well, I know how to solder/de-solder, I'm know how to use tools, fix cars, repair most electronics and the list could go on. I know my stuff, I possess a much wider range of skills then simply I.T. and I'm especially good at explaining and teaching technology to others.

I have an A.A. degree in Speech Communications and an A+ and CEH certifications but almost every job posting I see wants a 4 year degree which I don't have. My dream job would be to work for The Department of Defense in some facet of infosec and I live very close to an AFB so there's contract jobs a plenty but again, they all want at a minimum, a 4 year degree.

I apologize for the long winded post but I'd like to know if by not having a 4 year+ degree am I going to struggle to find work in the field that I love and do so well in?

shodown

infosec jobs can be kinda tricky without a 4 year degree or lots of experience. If you don't' want to go the college route, I would try to get into a SOC if they have one on base or relocate to an area with a SOC or some sort of ground level security or networking jobs.

Michael2

I'm not sure. I've also got an A.A., although mine's in Information Technology. Nevertheless, I have not been able to get a job in I.T. either. I've decided to follow a stockpiling strategy, in which I will attempt as many certs as possible. I know I've earned a couple of CEU's from my CompTIA certifications but I'm not sure what that means.

Polynomial

Michael2 wrote: »

I'm not sure. I've also got an A.A., although mine's in Information Technology. Nevertheless, I have not been able to get a job in I.T. either. I've decided to follow a stockpiling strategy, in which I will attempt as many certs as possible. I know I've earned a couple of CEU's from my CompTIA certifications but I'm not sure what that means.

There's no direction in that strategy though.

paul78

If the lack of a formal education is holding you back, is there a reason why you haven't just tried to get one. It is so much easier today to get a degree than 20 years ago. Check out online programs which are affordable and geared at working adults like WGU.

I myself do not have a degree but perhaps I have been more fortunate and I haven't had the same challenges.

But while you are still young and can do it, just go get the degree.

And welcome to the TE forums.

Akaricloud

I have to agree, if you're seeing a 4-year degree holding you back then why not go get one? With your current AA you could likely pick up a 4-year in 1-1.5 years for quite minimal cost if you wanted.

Cisco Inferno

You mention you have your AA. how many general education credits do you have?

ptilsen

See what you AA can get you locally. It can probably get you out of 40-50 credits, leaving you less than three years for a degree.

There are definitely some online options as well. WGU in particular will probably take almost all of your credits. Since it comes with certifications it can mean killing two birds with one stone.

Certs can go a long way towards showing you have the skills you claim you have. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a job with more certs and your existing degree. I'm a big advocate of both certifications and degrees in this field, but the truth is neither is truly a requirement, especially at the entry level.

purplefuzz

Thank you everyone for your replies. Unfortunately I hadn't heard of WGU until it was mentioned in this thread so thank you all very much for that.

My two biggest hurdles for transfering have been the cost and my lack of high level math skills. Looking on assist.org at the CSU and CalState requirments transfer into a computer related program requires Calculus 3 and sometimes even more to snag a 4 year degree so that has been a huge set back for me.

I'm currently studying and intend to take the CISSP within the next several months but I'll have to settle for the CISSP: Associate until I can gain the amount of hands on work they require.

@Cisco Inferno: I have a little over 60 units completed and have already graduated with 2 A.A. degrees. One in Speech Communications and I fell into a 2nd in Social & Behavioral Sciences. I was a bit tricky and noticed that 4 out of the 6 general ed areas had a speech class so I technically got a degree by just doing my general ed (along with 2 additional speech classes).

puertorico1985

This post actually brings back memories. I was a contractor for the DOD back in 2009-2010, and I got the job because of who i knew and not what I knew. I was not even qualified for the position. It was a contract job that lasted one year. About 3 months before the contract ended, I began looking for a job. EVERY JOB that was worth having required a 4-year degree, and all I had was about two years experience and a few certifications. After not getting any responses other than rejection emails, I decided to take the longer route and get a degree. I went to an online accredited university, and I recently graduated with a BS degree in Comp Science. I am currently a Network Engineer, and I have recently received a job offer with the gov't for a job with the DOD.

Long story short, a degree is definitely not a requirement, but it is necessary if you want to stand out. It has opened many doors for me and my career, and I am sure it will do the same for you.

ptilsen

CISSP will be huge. For WGU, the math shouldn't be a big deal. It's a not a computer science program. Go for the security or network admin bachelor's and you'll get plenty of credits. Heck, you can go for the master's after. You could finish both in less than three years and drop the Associate from your CISSP. You'll be in great shape.

There are other options, of course. If the math issue is just that you haven't taken the classes, that shouldn't be the barrier. If it's that you don't think high-level calc is for you, then WGU or other non-CS degrees are good options.

dbrink

Do you have any formal IT experience at all?

RoyalRaven

I remember this issue...lived through it directly. This is a long post, but should be very helpful.

Once I got my associates, I was ready to take on a whole lot more (and at that point I was about 2-3 years into IT). However, found the same roadblock - must have a bachelors. That kills off probably 60-70% of open opportunities up front. I moved to another area of the country and found this out the hard way too (9/11 didn't help either). I was good in most respects (and could have done the work), but didn't have the right paper in my portfolio.

I was so frustrated with that experience that it pushed me so much harder to get that 4-year degree and commit to the end of it. I was in the 4-year program as a business major and realized quickly that calculus was going to be a pre-req for many upper-level classes. I made it through the first semester of calc, but hated it. 2nd semester of calc started right where the one before left off, so I walked out on the first day and vowed to never sit that class again. I really liked the business classes, but absolutely dreaded math. I was a wiz at math up to about half-way through high school and then I found different subjects I appreciated significantly more. I just didn't want to apply myself at math when I knew the other classes were 10x more enjoyable for me. So...I switched majors.

I found a college at my local university that is geared more towards the adult/non-standard student. They were much more open with applying my transfer credits (from my 2-year) directly to a program of study, without losing much overall time-to-completion. I was able to test out of some IT classes (take the final) or pay for partial credit hours and use certs as replacements. It save me around two semesters of classes and didn't cost nearly as much as taking them straight up.

The other incredible thing about this undergrad program (Bachelors of Individualized Studies), it let me create my own path to degree completion. This school did not have a direct IT college (business had some db/programming, engineering had comp science/Unix, another college had digital software, etc), so they couldn't really force me into a program that existed as none of them matched my goals or were not areas I wanted to concentrate in directly. I was able to take the classes I wanted from each college and make it my own degree...just as long as I didn't get too close to mirroring an existing program. Some of them were way out there beyond my IT classes (i.e. History of American Automobiles or Physiology of Sports)…but they were extremely enriching and enlightening…which is what a 4-year degree needs to do. I completed all of my selected elective classes and the core ones (that all students needed - math was either not mandatory or my first semster took care of it! English lit and a few others were a drag, but no so bad) and I walked away with a bachelor’s degree. I’m so thankful I did classes I could apply myself at for full potential. A couple other friends/co-workers ended up following down the similar build-your-own path once I let them know about it.

I thought about stopping at the 4-year, but was having an enjoyable time learning near the end and grad school (masters) was an incredible proposition, especially as one day I might want to do more management and some less hands-on work. I found another university within an hour of me that does have an IT college (many programs underneath) and they had an InfoSec program at the grad level. Sure, I had to take a few core classes, but the focus was technology!! I flat out loved it, plus I got all of the training I needed for the CISSP (and passing the exam was my capstone), ended up with a master’s degree, made a heck of a lot of connections and really got some incredible experience there. I’m sitting pretty now with certs and education. Now it comes down to my experience every time!

I wouldn't fret payment if you're considering more school. You can find ways of meeting that financial goal or making arrangements. Don't skip it if you have the drive and it's just money holding you back. I worked for places along the way that helped pay some, but most of it was out-of-pocket. If you go the bachelors (or masters) route, it's an investment into yourself and your future. I believe that is always worth it.

I can summarize this with degrees – you need a bachelor’s minimally to avoid the employment issue. It's now the norm. Don't eliminate yourself due to this technicality. Let’s say I'm your competition to boot...I already have one, so one strike against you and not against me. Now that I'm essentially done with my formal education (Ph.D doesn't have the same ROI for me), I never have to be questioned about any lack of education. What a great feeling!

Just stay determined, keep trying and before you know, you'll reach another goal.

Cisco Inferno

Major in Computer Networks and Security - Undergraduate School - UMUC
Take a look at this online program. I am enrolling into this at the end of the year.
A couple of GenEds then 43 electives may be a good choice for you as your credits wont be wasted. Also, no need for super hard math.

You also get a $2000 scholarship for transferring an A.A in.
Also, there's plenty of certs you get trained for (for the program) if you can study hard and pass the exams.
Your A+ will get waived as well as any other certs that you can knock out before you enroll or while you are in school.
Theres a Microsoft, Cisco, and Security track that you can take with cert classes that count for credit.

I know alot of people suggest WGU, but a Maryland State school doesnt look bad at all to me.

thegoodbye

A coworkers mother works at UMUC. She mentioned they're looking at changing their curriculum to something similar to what WGU offers (accredited, accelerated, and with certs as necessary to pass the course). I don't have any additional information other than what I've written above, but it'd be pretty cool if they implemented those changes.

DoubleNNs

ptilsen wrote: »

You could finish both in less than three years and drop the Associate from your CISSP. You'll be in great shape.

You can use school work as experience for the CISSP?

ptilsen

A four-year degree takes a year off the experience requirement. But you're right, my math is off there. If OP has no IT sec-related experience today, it would take the degree plus four years of experience to drop the Associate label.

thegoodbye

DoubleNNs wrote: »

You can use school work as experience for the CISSP?

Per the ISC's website,

"Note that if certain circumstances apply and with appropriate documentation, candidates are eligible to waive one year of professional experience:

• One year waiver of the professional experience requirement based on a candidate’s education Candidates can substitute a maximum of one year of direct full-time security professional work experience described above if they have a four-year college degree OR Advanced Degree in information security from a U.S. National Center of Academic Excellence in information Security (CAEIAE) or regional equivalent.
  
  OR
• One-year waiver of the professional experience requirement for holding an additional credential on the (ISC)² approved list "

DoubleNNs

Oh, ok. Waive 1 year. I thought you meant the other 3 years.
Personally, I already have the Sec+ so my 1 year is already waived.

swild

I started WGU with the equivalent of an AA in transfer credit and certs. I was able to finish 60 credits in 6 months and graduate with a BS. I honestly didn't learn much while there, I already had most of the education, just not the paper that proves it. Now that I have that BS, I was able to get interviews at places that wouldn't have let me through the door before. I received 5 job offers within a couple of months and am now working as a Network Engineer in VoIP.

I can honestly say that WGU has helped my achieve my goals and it only cost me $1200 and 6 months of my life. That's a small price to pay to open up all of the job opportunities that a BS gives you.

I have a thread on here called the WGU Challenge that chronicles my journey. PM me if you have any questions about it.

purplefuzz

Thank again to everyone who replied to this thread. Your responses have been very helpful. Now that I know about WGU (which again, had I know about this school I would've jumped on it long ago) this seems like a smart choice to achieve my BA. I know education is important but in my opinion the traditional university route broken and teaches students how to easily go into debt more then anything else. I'll update you all on my progress along the way. Thank you again.

tpatt100

Is "Infosec" the new "Get your MCSE and get paid" theme? /jk

The CISSP was hard for me because I was technically oriented career wise back when I took it. Now? I would have had a much easier time taking it since I deal more with the administrative side of security.

z3r0cool

swild wrote: »

I started WGU with the equivalent of an AA in transfer credit and certs. I was able to finish 60 credits in 6 months and graduate with a BS. I honestly didn't learn much while there, I already had most of the education, just not the paper that proves it. Now that I have that BS, I was able to get interviews at places that wouldn't have let me through the door before. I received 5 job offers within a couple of months and am now working as a Network Engineer in VoIP.

I can honestly say that WGU has helped my achieve my goals and it only cost me $1200 and 6 months of my life. That's a small price to pay to open up all of the job opportunities that a BS gives you.

I have a thread on here called the WGU Challenge that chronicles my journey. PM me if you have any questions about it.

that's it???

ptilsen

z3r0cool wrote: »

that's it???

Keep this in mind:

swild wrote:

I started WGU with the equivalent of an AA in transfer credit and certs. I was able to finish 60 credits in 6 months and graduate with a BS. I honestly didn't learn much while there, I already had most of the education

It's not one term for most people. You can still get it done in less than two years at an aggressive pace, but remember that most people getting it done incredibly quickly are bringing some credits in from certs or two-year degrees and/or have experience that makes completing it much easier.

swild

yup

It's actually $3000 per term but I qualified for a $500 per term scholarship and a Pell Grant. 60 credits in a term is doable, but not easy. There are a couple of people on here that have done more than that in a single term. I think I could have easily finished the complete degree in 2 terms, but that's only because of my past work experiences and what I actually learned from my state college classes.

z3r0cool

ptilsen wrote: »

Keep this in mind:


It's not one term for most people. You can still get it done in less than two years at an aggressive pace, but remember that most people getting it done incredibly quickly are bringing some credits in from certs or two-year degrees and/or have experience that makes completing it much easier.

I have an AAS in a tech related field. I've got to find out what/if they'll transfer....

That's still an awesome price for tuition, no?

ptilsen

It will probably transfer, at least 75% if not 100%. The tuition is great if you have enough discipline to go at a decent pace. There's a reason it's popular here, and it's not just the certs. Cheap, accredited, transfer-friendly, go-at-your-own-pace, and certs.

Master Of Puppets

Definitely get one, as the others have said it won't be that much of a burden. I can see it paying off big time in the long run. I have witnessed cases like this and it's worth it. In some cases it's not that you learn so much more, a lot of people require you to have a degree on a higher level and not having one can be a drawback.

z3r0cool

ptilsen wrote: »

It will probably transfer, at least 75% if not 100%. The tuition is great if you have enough discipline to go at a decent pace. There's a reason it's popular here, and it's not just the certs. Cheap, accredited, transfer-friendly, go-at-your-own-pace, and certs.

Idk if you're familiar with them, but I got my AAS from ECPI. I'm looking now to see if they mention being accredited, which I'm sure is required for credit transfers.

Cisc0kidd

It is Regionally accredited.

supcch004

Wonderful Post Thank you!