Im an IT professional who has never graduated from High School AMA.

Throwmeaway

As someone that has never been to college, never graduated high school and has worked in a handful of different IT environments I'd like to open up to anyone else in a similar situation for questions and tips on how to move forward.

I have my MCTS, MCDST-MCP, VCP5. These were all obtained on my own...

I feel that skill over rides paper any day as far as college etc.. and anyone should be able to make it into a decent paying job without paying hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So if your interested in my experiences, my road to where i am.. ask away.

Bloogen

I am sure there are many people who want to get to where you are now who may have a similar background. It may help if you give more profile on yourself such as your current job title, age, where you live, salary etc.

Other than that some questions I can think of are, whats the next step for you? Do you foresee yourself going back to formal education? What was your biggest challenge due to your background and how did you overcome it?

wes allen

Did you and/or your parents make a conscious decision to not finish high school, or is that just the way it worked out? Do you stick with smaller companies that don't have HR hoops to jump through?

I do not have a college degree, and while there are times I think about maybe going back, I just think about the time and money I would spend on a degree that could go toward directly increasing my tech skill set. I do accept that means there are jobs out there that I will never be hired for.

Mrock4

I dropped out of high school too. In 9 years in the IT industry, it has never been an issue.

My story (written 2 years ago, so it's a bit dated, but you get the gist): http://www.sgtccie.com/blog/2011/08/how-i-went-from-a-dropout-to-100k/

Master Of Puppets

Experience trumps everything. There are many people who don't face problems without a degree. However, I think it helps a lot and in many cases that's what it takes to move up the ladder. Most big companies I can think of want you to have it. While it is not required sometimes, it certainly doesn't hurt to get one. Also, it is easier these days with all the online degrees etc.

Mrock, I read your story. It's awesome! There are people like you who make it either way - with or without a degree. The degree here doesn't matter. If someone has the will power, dedication and discipline to keep moving forward and get better with all the sacrifice and hardships that come with it, neither a lack of degree nor of anything else can hinder him. In my view, qualities like these combined with a degree, certs and experience are the best combination so why take anything out? Yes, not having a degree may not be a problem but why not get one and improve even more? That's how I see it. It's worth mentioning that in your case it's probably unnecessary to get one since you have almost 10 years of experience and badass certs so no one is going to care. But for the ones with fewer experience a degree can be a great boost and for others it may be the tool to get that experience.

den1966

what was your first IT job?

eansdad

I'll put it the same way my Grand-Father put it to me. Imagine 2 people with the similar experience and certifications, one has a degree and the other doesn't, which one gets the job? Now I know that hiring isn't as cut and dry as this but success without something, whether it is without a cert, degree or extensive exp, is possible if you find the right company but you have a better chance if you have it.

I think it is great when people succeed. I myself have a GED and didn't get my 1st cert until almost a decade into IT. Now I am working on more advanced certs and getting an Associates (3 classes left) and Bachelors (11 classes left) degree then moving into a Masters program.

MSP-IT

You sound like a redditor.

I'm curious though as to how this would effect the hiring process. I don't know any IT professionals that would put a high school on their resume, I would think that if you're that far up into IT, a high school diploma would be just an assumption.

networker050184

Same here. Dropped out of high school, no college. It's not as uncommon in IT as one might think.

Mrock4

Master of Puppets- that's exactly what the point of that story was, it's the person who becomes successful, not the degree/diploma.

It's really nice to see there are others in the same boat.

Master Of Puppets

Still good to point out cause I've heard people say "look at him and him, they don't have a degree and they're doing great so why should I get one". Not the right motive and way of thinking, I would say.

Mrock4

Absolutely right. I encourage kids to stay in school- the odds are undoubtedly AGAINST you when you drop out.

Throwmeaway

Wow lots of great replies and questions. I really expected people to dog on me for this but knew some could get valuable info from it.


I will answer in order and consolidate info to be precise.


My next step in IT is to just get mroe experience and sitting on the job i have now in managed services/support (Lots of potential areas to touch/workwith)


I would like to go back to a real college someday and get at least a bachelors in information technology. I have said to family and friends that i will never get my GED or degree, just so i could see how far i could get.. But i want the expierence of college now.


My biggest challenge i haev faced is finding a job willing to look past not having a GED. From what ive noticed filling out Apps online is bad for this. It's best to do it through career builder etc or in person and just hand them a resume this bypasses the automatic denial of no GED. You want to meet them and let them know your knowledable and willing to learn.


Biggest thing by far from interviewing and being interviewed is BE WILLING TO LEARN. Nobody in IT knows everything.




My decision to not finish high school was very looked down upon by my parents. I dropped out and started in a general labor job to help support my new born daughter (she was born when i was 18 begining of senior year.) I then went on to research how to get certifications which was really hard at first.


The first company i worked for had just hired an HR person out of college the same day as me. The manager mad ethe decision to hire people at that time. The second company i worked for outsourced their HR. I got in there from 2 people i worked with before who vouched for me (they were well above my expertise). I worked with them A LOT previously and the company before was wretched to work for so they helped me get my second job. My third job seen i had a few years under my belt and didnt care for the GED. They hired me and right away have assigned me to on site customers etc.


My first IT job was supposed to be an internship then hire, but i was hired right away and put onto the help desk as a support technician. Unlike the rest of teh helpdesk i would go on site and fix issues for users. I worked there for a year.


MSP-IT: Yes the highschool diploma for people that dont have it is a hard thing to get passed. Its a thought in your head that limits you more than it actually does. And yeah.. i spend time on reddit


Also i dont want to discourage people from college, or high school. It just worked out for me. I was always a C student.

danny069

Master Of Puppets wrote: »

Experience trumps everything.

You sure got that right. In our field you can still go places without a college degree, even without a high school diploma.

traceyke

Mrock4 wrote: »

I dropped out of high school too. In 9 years in the IT industry, it has never been an issue.

My story (written 2 years ago, so it's a bit dated, but you get the gist): How I went from a dropout to 100k | SGT CCIE

It's been a loooong time since I was motivated by an IT blog post. Your story is awesome and serves as real proof that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

tpatt100

Master Of Puppets wrote: »

Still good to point out cause I've heard people say "look at him and him, they don't have a degree and they're doing great so why should I get one". Not the right motive and way of thinking, I would say.

Yeah that is a bit of confirmation bias at work there. I knew people who would ignore labor force data and focus only on "well so and so doesn't have a degree and look at him".

SouthSeaPirate

<<< GED, Some college, one cert... IT Manager

MiikeB

I was making six figures before I finished undergrad with just my GED. IT is filled with a lot of non traditional learners, in fact I think those who excel at learning by trial and error and lab work excel in IT but also naturally have more trouble in traditional education environments that don't cater at all to individual learning styles.

That said, I now love school, have my Bachelors, almost done with my Masters and already looking around for a second Masters and/or some graduate certificates. I have also met many other people who discovered there love for education later in life.

paul78

Throwmeaway wrote: »

I really expected people to dog on me for this...

I think you would be surprised that it is likely the opposite. It's not out of the realm of possibilities in IT and other professions to find individuals who can make it without a college degree - especially in the United States. Although, it's a bit rarer to find someone without a high school diploma.

From what I have read - in the US - about 87% of 25 year and older persons are high-school graduates, 57% have some college, and 40% have a college degree.

It does sound like it worked out for you. Hopefully one day you will get those degrees. It sounds like you are still young so perhaps you will make that investment of time.

Most folks here know that I don't have a college degree. It hasn't necessarily slowed me down. But after 25 years, the problem is that I am trapped in my current job. At my level, it's going to be a lot more difficult for me to get my foot in the door of another potential employer without a degree. For me, my only recourse is my own professional network - so that means that my ability to work with a recruiter or a company where I have no connections is greatly diminished.

This doesn't mean that I'm not well compensated or that I can't succeed. But it's an extra hurdle to overcome. My career is usually tied to other individuals who know me and are familiar with my capabilities. It's not necessarily a bad thing - but that leaves me a bit more vulnerable in my career.

I know that many here like to use that expression that experience trumps everything. I've always had a slightly different twist on that sentiment. To me - it's not the experience that counts - having many years of experience in marginal roles without evidence of contribution doesn't count. It's the accomplishments that one accrues during a career that matter. And a degree is one dimension of that accomplishment. BTW - so are certifications for that matter.

Thanks for sharing your story and welcome to the TE forums.

Master Of Puppets

tpatt100 wrote: »

Yeah that is a bit of confirmation bias at work there. I knew people who would ignore labor force data and focus only on "well so and so doesn't have a degree and look at him".

No, actually, I don't have a degree as well. I am in the process of getting one though. I was making the point that whether to pursue a degree or not should be a calculated decision made with reason.

tpatt100

Master Of Puppets wrote: »

No, actually, I don't have a degree as well. I am in the process of getting one though. I was making the point that whether to pursue a degree or not should be a calculated decision made with reason.

I got that, I was referring to the "others" you were talking about that said ""look at him and him, they don't have a degree and they're doing great so why should I get one". People who say that tend to focus only on evidence that supports the idea you don't need one. I agree you need to have a valid reason for yourself to go besides you "have to go" otherwise you might just drop out.

GoodBishop

Admittedly, I was a college dropout. I had to turn my life around and learn "the hard way"... help desk, night classes, etc etc..

Now, things are going pretty awesome. 2/3s done my MBA, looking for a masters in information assurance after that... certs are coming along well too. CIPM and CEH will probably be added to the list this year, maybe GCIH if I'm lucky, and next year will be ISSAP/CBCP, and maybe CCNA/Linux+.

Master Of Puppets

tpatt100 wrote: »

I got that, I was referring to the "others" you were talking about that said ""look at him and him, they don't have a degree and they're doing great so why should I get one". People who say that tend to focus only on evidence that supports the idea you don't need one. I agree you need to have a valid reason for yourself to go besides you "have to go" otherwise you might just drop out.

Sorry, I misunderstood it was directed towards the people in question. I'm having the worst day and I can't think clearly It is also true that degrees aren't held in such high regard as they used to be. Back in the day having a degree really meant something and held significant weight. Nowadays, universities don't always prepare you for the real world and employers know that. They aren't a guarantee for someone having the ability do his job.

eansdad

The basics are though if you are young why not go to school while working? When you get older things get tougher, life gets in the way more. I wish I had gone to school sooner instead of being 37 and finishing a BS. I think my career path would be a lot better and I would be closer to where I want to be (IT Director - Preferably at Disney in FL).

tpatt100

I remember reading an article that young people use college as a "growing up" buffer to adulthood. If you don't go to college and just find a job until "you figure out what you want to be" you end up being viewed as a "drifter". If you are in college you are viewed as "advancing yourself" lol.

So we have people going to college as an expensive experiment who graduate with a ton of debt and no job.

nosoup4u

Our bad ass lead virtualization engineer dropped out of highschool and along with his wall of certifications he's got his middle school graduation certificate as a jab at everyone's degree's around here lol.

Master Of Puppets

tpatt100 wrote: »

I remember reading an article that young people use college as a "growing up" buffer to adulthood. If you don't go to college and just find a job until "you figure out what you want to be" you end up being viewed as a "drifter". If you are in college you are viewed as "advancing yourself" lol.

So we have people going to college as an expensive experiment who graduate with a ton of debt and no job.

Exactly In my country it is even worse - 85% of the people who go to university pursue some random degree(whatever they are accepted to study, they go for that. Absolutely no idea what it really is and no preferences). They use this time to get drunk, party and education is the last thing on their mind. I think that spans the globe but is definitely more common in some locations. When they graduate all they have is some degree that can't be applied to anything and they can't get a decent job with it. Things like that probably add to the fact that a degree's value is decrementing. I don't think this is that norm in US because all your degrees are pretty expensive. Funny thing is that I am 20 and when people find out I already know what I want to do and I'm doing it, they are taken aback like it is something special... . This should not surprise people, this should be the way things happen.

paul78

tpatt100 wrote: »

I remember reading an article that young people use college as a "growing up" buffer to adulthood.

If you happen to find that article, would you mind sharing it. I search around and found this - Post Graduation Depression Disorder | Yakezie.com

It's an interesting perspective.

tpatt100

paul78 wrote: »

If you happen to find that article, would you mind sharing it. I search around and found this - Post Graduation Depression Disorder | Yakezie.com

It's an interesting perspective.

I think it was grad school now that I think about it. Some blogs talk about it as a trend where grad school is a way to "avoid" the recession and adulthood:

Hiding from the real world? Try graduate school. | PaperKindling

“Ugh. The real world. That’s half the reason I went to graduate school. I wasn’t ready for the real world yet.”

I’ve (almost) jokingly given the same excuse to many people who have asked me why I wanted to pursue a Master’s degree. And there’s a ring of truth to it. I’ve really enjoyed studying journalism and I like being a student. I like the variety of it and I’m in no rush to face the stressful market of entry-level reporting positions. Besides, if I’m a little intimidated by the real world, maybe that means I’m not ready for it. Maybe it means I should continue my education. Y’know. Prepare a little more.


Maybe I’m kidding myself, and there’s no way you can truly feel prepared for the real world.

It’s a recent trend in the economy that, when the jobs are hard to find, many like to head back to the safety net of school. It gives them something to do, instead of being simply unemployed. And it also is a productive use of time — after all, once you emerge with your advanced degree, you probably have a better shot at finding a job, right? And maybe the economy will have improved by then!

This article at Forbes.com highlights the trend with specific interest in journalism. It contains this heartening bit: ” According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by 2016 the number of positions for entry-level reporters and news anchors will increase 2%, while those for experienced writers and editors will grow 10%. Expect trade publications, freelance work and digital media to supply the bulk of the jobs.”


And then there’s this post, with the ominously perfect title answering my very question here: Don’t try to dodge the recession with grad school. Author Penelope Trunk highlights a few very good reasons about why this is a no-no. I’m going to go ahead and debunk them all because, well, I can. How’s that for a marketable skill? Arguing!


1. Grad school pointlessly delays adulthood.


Well, yes and no. I mentioned earlier that I was trying to prepare myself better for the real world. Wouldn’t I be delaying adulthood by doing that? No, actually, I wouldn’t. I grew up more in my four years of undergraduate schooling than I did the rest of my life. It’s just the nature of being young, ambitious and away from home. Sure, I was in a relative safety net of school. But I also learned a lot of valuable life skills and matured greatly. In my case, especially, I’ll be moving very far from home to attend a graduate school in a city that will not baby you. As long as you don’t fall into the cushy graduate program that doesn’t force you to grow, then no matter what, you’ll be entering into adulthood.

Throwmeaway

nosoup4u wrote: »

Our bad ass lead virtualization engineer dropped out of highschool and along with his wall of certifications he's got his middle school graduation certificate as a jab at everyone's degree's around here lol.

Yeah we had an engineer at a place i worked that didnt graduate from college who posted his GED in his cube lol

Master Of Puppets

Here's something interesting - Why I Hate School But Love Education||Spoken Word - YouTube