What would you think if your interviewer admitted..

So I had an intervew on Monday for a network admin position and the manager was bragging to me about braindumping the CCNA, CCNA Security and was dumping for his CCNP. He went as far as to state that most the the question he got right were from his ****. I was kind of suprised that he even admitted using them to me, but I didn't comment on it. In that situation, what would you guys think or do? Would you still want to work with him as your manager?

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Zartanasaurus

Master Of Puppets wrote: »

IMO, that's a test. No one in their right mind would confess that in an interview and be proud of it. I'm sticking to the test theory.

My inclination is to say it's a test too, but I've seen people at management level be accepting of the idea of ****. I wouldn't be surprised if major MSPs were pushing their staff to **** their way to certs since the cert gives them discounts and helps their bottom line.

networker050184

Master Of Puppets wrote: »

IMO, that's a test. No one in their right mind would confess that in an interview and be proud of it. I'm sticking to the test theory.

What, you don't think there are plenty of people out there that aren't in their right mind?

joneno

It sound sweet and philosophical for people on the board to easily say don't take the job and what not. The decision to accept/reject the job should be based on your financial situation or lack thereof. Consider the following: Are you in need of money? Do you have student loans to pay? A mortgage? Are you inexperienced or just starting your networking career? All this should come to mind when making a decision, not someone on this board trying to play Aristotle. The manager is definitely not a man/woman of virtue. Be smart about it!

networker050184

Not working for someone that is cocky and of low character would come higher on my list than money. Taking a job simply for an extra $8k a year regardless of the warning signs is not being smart IMO. It's actually pretty damn stupid if you look at the big picture and not just the dollar signs.

paul78

joneno wrote: »

It sound sweet and philosophical for people on the board to easily say don't take the job and what not.

I wasn't theorizing nor was I speaking for anyone other than myself. I would never work for such a manager. As I mentioned, I still remember Drexel Burnham, many people associated with that firm were considered tainted and some had trouble finding new work.

Ultimately, I do agree with your sentiment that it's an individual matter. Perhaps I am old-school but I subscribe to the sentiment that "you are known by the company that you keep.".

networker050184

paul78 wrote: »

Perhaps I am old-school but I subscribe to the sentiment that "you are known by the company that you keep.".

It's not even just that. If this guy has no problem cheating and bragging about it you think he is going have any problem screwing you over if the poop hits the fan? Not likely.

paul78

networker050184 wrote: »

...If this guy has no problem cheating and bragging about it you think he is going have any problem screwing you over...

oh - I absolutely agree. I just assumed that part is obvious.

joneno

I see where you're coming from Paul & networker. It can also be an opportunity for him to prove himself as a super tech. As a catholic it would've been easier for me to say reject the job offer or look elsewhere. But I'd be naive to think that opportunities don't abound in various forms. $8k might be peanut to you, to some people on this board it is a lot of dough. I can't emphasize more poster....it's your call to make.

About7Narwhal

@joneno

We aren't making this any more philosophical than you are hypothetical. The OP didn't state he/she had a mortgage or monetary obligations that they were desperate to meet. He/She merely asked what WE would do in that situation. 8K isn't chump change for me, but I would rather sit tight where I am than work for someone who openly cheats. Right or wrong, it makes you question the company culture as a whole. 6 months from now that raise wont mean anything if I hate every waking hour of my day.

At the end of the day, I agree with you that any job is better than no job. But that wasn't what we were asked.

RouteMyPacket

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd say thanks but no thanks. Not the type of person I'd like to work for. Cheating is one thing, but being proud and bragging? No thanks.

Thanks but no thanks here as well. Not looking to play games either.

Same here!

I had an interview not long ago for Network Engineer, so I talk to the guy and just from the way he was talking I knew I wouldn't want to work around him.

"Yeah, well I'm looking to get my CCNA...and I plan to buy a 4500 for Voice and then bla bla bla bla bla"

This told me he was your typical IT clueless hack who would micro manage and make the decisions. I hung up afterwards and never gave it a second thought. So glad I now work in an area where losers and shortcut idiots would never survive.

WafflesAndRootbeer

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

I've often been shocked at the openness of people who admit to dumping. I've even seen instructors from well known training companies pass out **** and brag about how accurate they are.

Regardless of what anyone here thinks, brain **** are officially sanctioned by companies. I can tell you that most of the contracting companies in the DC Metro area have test **** repositories made available to employees where you can review and memorize everything from CompTIA, Microsoft, and others up to mid-level tests. For example, when I worked for CompuCom, I had every single answer to every single test I was required to take in front of me while I took it. Mind you, I was not using it on the stuff we're talking about here. But I had to use **** because the certs were required by the company since they wanted us to have those support certs that we otherwise would not have had because they really didn't do that sort of work - other companies specifically fill those support roles and they wanted to get in on the action without having to do anything costly - and had no training to speak of regarding the support areas they wanted us to be certified in. Same thing with Best Buy's Geek Squad, Lockheed Martin IT, Siemens, and others.

instant000

To the OP:

I am the type of person to say my mind and would challenge the interviewer on the spot.

Rosco2382 wrote: »

I don't really see how brain **** help you pass a test. I am also very ignorant to them as well, but memorizing that many questions surely is very difficult. I can barely memorize OSI model and thats a small portion of the Network+ exam.

Roscoe:

I'll show you how a brain **** can help you pass a test.

The book and lab guides for a typical test may take you 80 hours of preparation in order to study and pass the test. This is assuming that you have to read the book (~1,000 pages), and do several lab exercises from a 100-page manual. In this case, you have to learn how things work, because the questions asked on the test will not match what you have studied, but will depend upon knowing the theory behind how things work. This way, no matter how the question is asked, you would know the correct answer.

Now, you can instead get the brain **** for the test, that contains the 400 questions in the test bank. In order to express 400 questions in book form, if you put 10 questions on a page, it would only be a 40 page long book. You could probably cram this book for a day or two, and have all of the answers memorized.

Please compare your odds of remembering every thing in a 40 page book, versus a 1,000 page book, and then tell us whether or not you think brain **** can help you pass a test. Also, know that the 40-page book has exactly what is on the test, and the 1,000 page book has much information to cover, but you still don't know what is on the test.

The truth is that the person who only studies the 40-page **** won't know anything besides those 400 questions, while the person who studies the 1,000 page book and does the 100-page labs is a lot more useful on the job. Unfortunately, the token that is acquired for proving that you studied the 1,000 page book and 100-page labs can be illicitly gained by shortcircuiting the process with the 40-page ****. It is dangerous for the person who cheats, and probably moreso for the company that hires that person without checking them out.

Also, a brain **** isn't about learning the OSI model, as you used in your example, it is about learning the exact questions on the tests, and the exact answers for those questions. This type of thing happens with high school, undergrad, etc. Any time the question bank is not refreshed regularly, the threat of brain **** increases.

See here, for more information about what a braindump is:
CertGuard | Braindumps

Hope this helps.

Plantwiz

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd say thanks but no thanks. Not the type of person I'd like to work for. Cheating is one thing, but being proud and bragging? No thanks.

Thanks but no thanks here as well. Not looking to play games either.

100% agree with Networker!

This sort of stuff is a reason to stand up and walk out of the interview. It is VERY challenging what to do when this situation catches one by surprise...like during an interview when the candidate generally WANTS the job and is fearful to upset the guy/gal holding the keys to the job. HOWEVER, do a little self-evaluation and see how you stand.

Only at the time is it difficult to do the right thing...beforehand and afterward is it easy. Stand strong.

Take care accepting a position when the mentality of cheating is 'acceptable'...if the company is 'busted' for allowing such behavior (losing vendor accreditation) the individual employees look poorly too.

Job or not, if this wasn't merely a sleazeball test (interview question meant to feel the candidate out) and the company has employees who regularly ****, you will be lumped into that cheater group as well whether you **** or not.

NetworkVeteran

Excellent post, instant000. A long time ago in a galaxy far away, I interviewed a new grad MCSE for an entry-level networking position. I had taken one test that he had, so I focused on that exam's material. What was astonishing was, if I asked a question exactly like that test did, he knew the answer. But, if I asked it in a slightly different way, it was clear he had little or no understanding about the role or function of ARP, IP addresses, MAC addresses, subnetting, TCP, etc. Possibly he tried to understand those 20-40 pages of answers. Certainly he did not try to understand how those things worked as any reasonable preparation book would have taught him. The remaining interviews were cancelled and he was marked as a do-not-hire.

paul78

The one thing that always surprises me is that someone is willing to buy **** and provide their credit card number to a company that is violating copyright and trade secret laws. For me, seriously puts into question the judgement of that person. Another reason not to hire or work with people like that.

Plantwiz

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote:

Regardless of what anyone here thinks, brain **** are officially sanctioned by companies.

Officially? So, turn them in.

If you have such proof, be the boy scout and turn them in.

I can tell you that most of the contracting companies in the DC Metro area have test **** repositories made available to employees where you can review and memorize everything from CompTIA, Microsoft, and others up to mid-level tests. For example, when I worked for CompuCom, I had every single answer to every single test I was required to take in front of me while I took it.

The held a gun to your head and said if you didn't use the **** they'd shoot you?

Mind you, I was not using it on the stuff we're talking about here. But I had to use **** because the certs were required by the company since they wanted us to have those support certs that we otherwise would not have had because they really didn't do that sort of work - other companies specifically fill those support roles and they wanted to get in on the action without having to do anything costly - and had no training to speak of regarding the support areas they wanted us to be certified in.

Gotta ask, so of the certs you list, which did you 'have to' **** to obtain? I've know of a colleagues who was written-up because they failed to attemp a certification. (and mind you, they could have failed it, they simply had to attempt to take the test). I cannot imagine any certification is a life or death though.

Same thing with Best Buy's Geek Squad, Lockheed Martin IT, Siemens, and others.

Love to see some proof!

And Waffles, I'm not looking to pick on you per se, but the mindset of which you stated is flawed. Cheating is 'ok' sometimes, when told to do it? If nothing else, your experience is the exact reason the problem continues. Lots of folks have commented on this forum that "Cheating is bad", "Down with ****" but then turn around and say something like "Well, I only used it one time, then I found out it was cheating and do not do it now". To that I call foul! One needs to be suspicious and question practices that do not mesh with their inner core. There is enough information on the Internet that a scrupulous person can quickly discern cheating material from legitimate material. The 'must' have cert is invalidated by lack of experience and/or lack of true study. This shows up in the field and also on the help desk when we all get stuck making that dreaded call and try to escalate beyond the person reading the cue cards only to get a person on the line who 'thinks' they can solve the problem because they hold whatever cert or degree...and then completely doesn't understand the clues you already gift wrapped for them.

So, to those silent cheaters out on the Internet consider this... Would you want your surgeon to **** on his/her exams? How about the guy/gal filling your prescription? They can only get your dosage correct if it was on their test bank, they cannot calculate the correct dosage for you or your loved one. Wonder why some say that 'anyone' can do IT work? Because there are too many in the field currently who remain silent while others ****. Wonder why there are security breaches? Perhaps the security guru your company just hired cheated on his last three exams. So he/she is semi-proficient, but never learned how to properly diagnosis network issues and only patched up things that he/she read about on his exam questions and answers.

I still agree with Networker...if the question comes up as a trap...it is not a good company to work for because they are looking to find faults rather than work with strengths. If the interviewer was truthful in that he cheated on his exams, then this is not a company with integrity...and plenty of companies have integrity. When you look for those types of companies, they start to seek you out.

joneno wrote:

It sound sweet and philosophical for people on the board to easily say don't take the job and what not. The decision to accept/reject the job should be based on your financial situation or lack thereof.

The US has some of the richest poor people in the world. Seek out other options, they exist. And with your religious comment above, then pray about it. I highly doubt any answer to a prayer would be to work for someone without integrity.

Consider the following: Are you in need of money? Do you have student loans to pay? A mortgage? Are you inexperienced or just starting your networking career? All this should come to mind when making a decision, not someone on this board trying to play Aristotle. The manager is definitely not a man/woman of virtue. Be smart about it!

I disagree. One does not need to have a mortgage. They certainly do not need to have a student loan or loans. And if the individual is 'lacking experience' gaining experience from a company that has no credibility will make obtaining a different job later a lot more difficult.

For one who likes to spout about religion and virtue, I do find your post very interesting and a bit contradictory. Cannot speak for the others (though I think one already mentioned it) posted replies tend to be of the poster's opinion (and hopefully some fact or experience to back it up). Debt is not good. A mortgage is not bad debt, but not everyone needs a mortgage. And there are plenty of ways to obtain degrees and homes without incurring debt. But if you wish to discuss that sort of stuff further PM me.

Master Of Puppets

You guys do have a point but still. Obviously we here are all aware of the things wrong with **** but even the people who are stupid enough to do it shouldn't be that stupid to brag about it. However, when I think about it I have encountered individuals of that sort but I can't say I understand them - if you're going to **** and you have no idea what's going on, at least try to hide it.

Valsacar

Pretty simple to me, assuming you currently have work that is capable of providing for yourself and family (if you have one) then you walk out. The second he started bragging I would have said "Thank you, but I don't feel I will be a good fit for this team." and take my leave.

If you have no job and no other options, then take it until something else comes up.

N2IT

I'll tell you if I was making x amount of dollars and struck out on a exam 2 times and they said you have one more time or you will lose your job.........Let's just hope this fictious scenario never happens. Thankfully for me very few certifications make any sense, and I agree dumping is weak it doesn't prove anything it just gives you a piece of paper. That's why I am taking a long time to go through my SQL book and training while using SQL at work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. It makes sense and I am learning at a rapid rate. That's the way it goes.

Gorby

It's good reading the various opinions you guys have, I do currently have a job in desk side support but the pay is slightly lower than I believe others make in the DC Metro area. My main motivation is to get into a networking role as soon as I can because I don't feel like my current role is challenging and I've mentally check out a while ago. Like some of you pointed out...my main worry is accepting the job and being miserable with this guy or even worse finding out the the environment as a whole is similar to what he's like personality wise.

I really would love to get that experience though as it isn't easy getting into a network administration job without the experience...so that's what makes me go back and forth lol. I don't think I'm going to be accepting it though based on his personality though if I get a call back this week.

Throne

I would absolutly work for this guy because i know his position would be mines real soon! Although you will be alot busier taking up the slack for what he doesnt know, you will really stand out if everyone is looking at you to get the job done.

Mishra

I don't think I could answer this question without actually being there for the interview and seeing how this person is. Anything more than that is just overly assuming.