What does Senior mean to you? (Job Titles)

instant000

Please note: I am referring to senior in job titles. I am not referring to "Senior Member" in these forums.

I seriously ask this question because I do not feel "Senior".

THERE IS SO MUCH THAT I DO NOT KNOW!

I would really like an explanation.

Thanks.

networker050184

To me a Senior is someone that is at a higher level than their fellow team mates. The go to guy so to speak. Someone that can be leaned on to handle the more difficult tasks and can help mentor the more junior members.

higherho

Senior to me is someone on Social security and at least 63 years of age.








jk. I agree with Networker!

TechGuy215

I would concur with networker050184, and add that aside from being the most knowledgable and dependable; I would regard someone in a senior position to have the most experience, be accountable, and be able to execute with a high-level of success.

I also believe the roles/duties/expectations for a senior-level position vary greatly from organization to organization.

@higherho ---> You can't collect your full SS benefits until age 65!

vanquish23

Senior is not me, because its on my resume and hurting me in interviews. Companies only want to hire senior people these days.

Node Man

I'll play devils advocate on this one. I agree with what people said above, but I'll also add that Senior is sometimes a meaningless title given to some people instead of a pay raise. IE a false sense of advancement.

higherho

If you know the system well enough Techguy, you can! lol

N2IT

I think senior means very little. It's ambiguous and can take on a lot of different meanings. What it personally means to me is someone who has been in an environment for a while 5+ years and really knows what he or she is doing. Therefore management gives them the title of a means of recognition to hopefully retain the employee. Also it's a way to allow the employee to be identified as a go to person for the junior members.

the_Grinch

Senior to me always meant that I could do the job of my boss. Be that go to guy who gets the job done. At my last job it was really just a carrot that I never got. Like others said, usually it's either just for a pay raise or a fomotion to keep you happy. Honestly, now more then ever, titles are meaningless. My new job title is Network Administrator, yet I don't even touch networking equipment (or any computer equipment really). I had to put a help desk ticket in and the tech was confused "you're a network administrator..." had to laugh and say "in name only." They knew what they wanted to pay and that was the title that fit the scale.

N2IT

Agreed titles mean very little anymore.

networker050184

Whether the senior designation means something really depends on where you work. Where I am now the seniors are definitely leaned on harder and fill the team lead role. I've also worked in places where the senior is nothing but a title to get you in a higher pay bracket and comes with no additional duties or responsabilities.

QHalo

Senior should mean that you're 'the man'. The last point of escalation in your team. The person that doesn't accept failing.

I gave up on titles when my last company hired a Chief Talent Officer. Silly.

Iristheangel

I agree with Networker. I've seen too many people's resumes float across my desk with former job titles such as "Senior Network Engineer" with little to no knowledge of simple Layer 2 and Layer 3 concepts. I've given up on focusing on their previous job titles and pay more attention to the technologies described, certifications, and the descriptions of their jobs detailed in their resumes.

boobobobobob

I personally think the senior title is used way too liberally. To me a Senior Network Engineer should be a CCIE level person, not a CCNP (For network Engineers at least).

instant000

I'm highlighting this post because it seems to be at slight variance to everyone else.

N2IT wrote: »

What it personally means to me is someone who has been in an environment for a while 5+ years and really knows what he or she is doing.

N2IT's definition seems to require "time served" in addition to being the "go to guy/gal".

Is time served also required?

networker050184

Time served is irrelevant to me. One guy can sit there for ten years and not be as good as the guy that has been there for six months. Familiarity with the environment is crucial though so some time in the company or position helps. We don't hire people on from outside of the company as seniors in my group. They can come in as the highest level engineer outside of senior if they are qualified and be promoted to senior.

ajs1976

Previous employer used the titles System Engineer for level 1, Sr SE for level 2, SE Consultant for level 3, and Sr SE Consultant for level 4.

darkerz

My definition of Sr. *Insert here* Engineer/Tech/Admin/whatever, is someone who is vastly more qualified, more experienced and better paid than I am.

I have this romanticized image of someone with 10-15 years of hard, grueling, sleepless night, 24/7/365 experience finally achieving a Sr. level, "The go to guy", "He who does not sleep", "Master of CLI", "Ferrari Jim".


In reality,

Usually someone who is more than a keyboard jockey with bullshitting capabilities and time in with a company. 2-5 years of general "normal engineer" experience.

Heck, I'm called a "Network Engineer III (whatever the heck that III means), purely because no one wants to pay a young person who studies 2-4 hours a day the nation average - let alone the geographic average... (Seattle area, enough said)


Unless you're doing deep packet craft and analysis, designing the API's for NOC systems, developing solutions spanning multiple technologies and doing thorough analysis of new & existing systems (as opposed to running dozens of show commands), then you're just like me - A Network Janitor who may have a Sr. Network Janitor.

shodown

Senior to me, means you have the grasp of the technologies and only need a direction to go in from the leads or management. They also have the capability to pick up new technologies that they haven't' seen before at a much faster rate due to the understanding of where there expertise it at. Since the skill level of IT is low these days, I feel its just given away. If you go to a large sized technology partner, whats considered mid level there will clean the clocks of a senior in a mid sized enterprise. Usually in Large enterprises they do have 1-2 true senior level people.

TheProf

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree with Networker. I've seen too many people's resumes float across my desk with former job titles such as "Senior Network Engineer" with little to no knowledge of simple Layer 2 and Layer 3 concepts. I've given up on focusing on their previous job titles and pay more attention to the technologies described, certifications, and the descriptions of their jobs detailed in their resumes.

I agree 100%... Titles don't mean much... It's the experience and their level of knowledge that I consider them to be either Senior or not.

networker050184

I don't think the degree of technicality of the work you do has anything to do with it. You could be the be a senior NOC guy knowing all the tricks of the trade. Just because you aren't designing networks doesn't mean you aren't senior at what you do.

Slowhand

It's definitely subjective. At one company you might be a senior-level admin or engineer by virtue of the place being small, the other techs not being particularly advanced, and the challenges being moderately easy to deal with. At another you may be dealing with high-pressure, five-nines, thousands-of-users-screaming-at-you-when-things-break kinds of scenarios, in which case you might be a mid-level guy. It all depends on what your company thinks of you, how well you know the environment and technologies you're working with, and how much your supervisors trust you to handle responsibility.

I think there are a couple of things that are universal for folks who set themselves apart as senior-level. Being able to handle more responsibility and bigger projects than one's entry and mid-level counterparts. Plenty of experience in one's given field is important, as is a willingness to grow and learn. Something I've also seen a lot of senior-level guys do is go out and take ownership of their work, take personal responsibility for the health of their network, as opposed to approaching their work as "just a job".

VAHokie56

higherho wrote: »

Senior to me is someone on Social security and at least 63 years of age.








jk. I agree with Networker!

or the guy who plays from the yellow tee's hey oooooooo

danitykane

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree with Networker. I've seen too many people's resumes float across my desk with former job titles such as "Senior Network Engineer" with little to no knowledge of simple Layer 2 and Layer 3 concepts. I've given up on focusing on their previous job titles and pay more attention to the technologies described, certifications, and the descriptions of their jobs detailed in their resumes.

Just out of curiosity, how can you interview Senior or intermediate Network Engineers when you are still a Junior Network Engineer Iris?

instant000

danitykane wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, how can you interview Senior or intermediate Network Engineers when you are still a Junior Network Engineer Iris?

danitykane:

One issue that several have brought out is that depending on the environment sizes that have been worked in, there could be a big fish in a small pond syndrome occurring, whereby someone could be considered senior in one environment, but no more than junior in another. What if I said I was a senior aerospace engineer? Please consider that that my experience is designing paper airplanes for toddlers. I could be senior in that environment, but if I tried to get onto Boeing or NASA, I would definitely be entry-level!

In this case, Iristheangel was referring to "prior job titles" that applicants had. The issue is that job titles mean very little (according to several prior posters).

What this thread has demonstrated is that senior could mean several things:
(1) this person is indeed highly skilled and experienced
(2) this person is highly skilled (but not necessarily experienced)
(3) this person is highly experienced (but not necessarily skilled)

You'd obviously prefer #1. If not, you would be willing to go with #2, since they should be able to handle it. You probably want to avoid #3 at all costs.

With regards to senior-level experience, I really like this quote from Kevin Wallace:

My director told me, "He's got eleven years of experience." To that, I responded, "No. He's got one year of experience, eleven times."

Free PDF Download of "Your Route to Cisco Career Success" | LinkedIn
by Kevin Wallace | LinkedIn

N2IT

Well of course time plays a role into experience. You can't have experience without serving time.

C'est la vie

Master Of Puppets

I consider someone to be senior when he/she has at least 5 years of experience and a really in-depth knowledge of something.

RouteMyPacket

Welcome to IT buddy where "Senior" is thrown around with reckless abandon.

I have seen "Sr" administrators and engineers that couldn't carry my jock let alone ever be a real Senior resource. That's IT though, what is "Sr" at Company A is Help Desk at Company B but that's why you have technical interviews done by real Sr people.

For the first time in my career I am working for a firm whose "Sr" Engineers are ridiculously experienced and true Senior level Engineers. I mean, how often do you work around 2x CCIE, 3x CCIE and 4x CCIE's? That's not normal unless you work at Cisco or something.

I am NOT a Sr. guy, I will certainly one day be because I want to be an expert in what I do but I am part of a rare breed who is honest about what I bring to the table but who is also on track to achieving career goals.

I could go to another firm and be a Sr. Network Engineer, no doubt about it but it doesn't make me Sr in my mind. It's a title, experience and abilities are what you Sr or not.

apr911

danitykane wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, how can you interview Senior or intermediate Network Engineers when you are still a Junior Network Engineer Iris?

DanityKane,

From what Ive seen, its actually pretty routine and common practice to have a Junior admin sit in and participate in the hiring process of senior admins.

For one thing, its the whole team fit thing. The new senior admin and existing junior admins need to get along just as much as the new senior needs to get along with his peers. You dont want to bring in 1 new senior admin if doing so will cause strife within the team and the eventual departure of your junior admins (companies do need jr admins even if they insist they only want/need sr level admins). Especially as the Senior is often time looked to as the escalation point and mentor for the junior admins.

The interview process can also be a learning process for the junior admins, it exposes them to numerous methodologies (each interviewee likely approaches the questions/problems posed differently) and a wide range of experiences and specialties.

There's also the fact that any technical conversation may present new pieces of information that an admin may previously have been missing, or maybe that old piece of information, laid out in a different light, finally makes the concept click. I also find those conversations tend to inspire truly dedicated/motivated admins to look/investigate deeper or research/study new material. I know I pushed myself harder as a junior admin because of the senior admins around me and their conversations that were often times above my understanding. That street goes both ways.I cant tell you how many conversations Ive had with a junior admin where some issue I was mulling over just suddenly made a lot more sense and the solution became clear or how many times a junior admin challenged my understanding of some particular topic that caused me to pause and hit the books again.

Back to the junior admins participating in senior admin interviews, the junior admins can ask the questions the other senior admins forget to ask. Since I dont do a lot of the basic configurations anymore, I find I often forget to ask questions about them because its not on my mind or relevant to me even if it would be relevant to the job as a whole (layer 2 topologies would fall under this category IMO.). They can also serve as a way to keep the interview on point and task as 2 senior admins might hit on a topic and deep dive so far into it for so long that you never find out what else the candidate knows. Maybe that candidate really knows VPNs and can discuss everything and anything about them but is crap at pretty much everything else and cant even subnet. If all the job is is VPNs then well you may have just found your candidate but jobs rarely are 100% of the time just 1 thing so most candidates need to know more. Ive found myself in the deep-dive situation and I found that if I give a look to the junior admin on the panel with me and they have that glazed over look in their eye that it might be time to start looking to move to the next topic. There's a time and place to go to that depth on a topic but rarely is it in an interview.

Finally, an interview can serve as aand provide the junior admin with an "instant" respect and sense of specialty of the new employee. Seeing how the new senior admin handled himself under the pressure of an interview, acknowledged what they did or did not know and how deep they could expound on one topic or another gives a good baseline level of respect of their capabilities and knowledge of what things you should approach them with and which things you should approach another team member with. It doesnt necessarily mean that the cool-collected admin in the interview isnt going to be a real prick when they're under pressure so there may still be a "proving" period once they're on the job but it could/should be less than if that person had to prove themselves to everyone with no basis of understanding for what they know.

blargoe

Senior "should" indicate that a person is a subject matter expert in their particular area, surpassing the base requirements of the role in most aspects.

Often, it's just a feel good title that doesn't mean squat.

Iristheangel

danitykane wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, how can you interview Senior or intermediate Network Engineers when you are still a Junior Network Engineer Iris?

My job title isn't "Junior Network Engineer." I'm considered a full-fledged Network Engineer in both title and responsibility with my employer. I troubleshoot network issues, put in change orders, head major projects, draw the network diagrams and plan/design builds, write SOWS/SOPS/Site-paks, build-out complete sites, etc on my own. Our IT Director seems to feel confident in my technical abilities so he has me conduct the first phone interview to guage their technical abilities and I'm usually sitting in the live interview if they pass that phone interview. It all depends on the relationship you have with your employer and the amount of trust they have in you. I certainly feel junior in a lot of ways when stacking myself against professionals like MRock, Forsaken, Networker and NetworkVeteran or when I'm studying for the next exam and start thinking about all the things I do not know but my employer apparently was happy enough in my abilities as a consultant to hire me on as a network engineer and not an admin or junior role