Why are students never paid their due?

spartensparten Posts: 72Banned ■■□□□□□□□□
Why do companies think its OK to pay students chump change, or better yet, nothing at all, just because we're in college? We're not slaves, and we don't need your mediocre jobs.


PS: I have 5 yrs work experience, yet because I am a student, they will only pay me $20/hr max. wtf?

/rant
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Comments

  • Jon_CiscoJon_Cisco Posts: 1,773Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Consider the alternative. Most companies would not work with students if they were required to pay them current wages.
  • LarryDaManLarryDaMan Posts: 797Member
    If you have 5 years experience and the bias is only against you being a student.... maybe don't tell them you are in school. It is not mandatory to disclose that.
  • abramsgunnerabramsgunner Posts: 31Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    It may have something to do with the fact that there are other students who will jump at $20/hr mediocre jobs, many who have only had "sub" mediocre $8-$9/hr jobs in the past.
  • ipchainipchain Posts: 297Member
    And a rate of 20$/hr is unacceptable to you while attending school? Personally, I would have loved the opportunity to work, even for FREE, when I was a student so that I could get the required experience most organizations asked for back then. Just something to think about, we should appreciate what we have and not take things for granted.
    Every day hurts, the last one kills.
  • QordQord Senior Member Posts: 629Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    sparten wrote: »
    they will only pay me $20/hr max. wtf?

    It's better than minimum wage. 'Round where I live, that pay's pretty good for the expected age group of 21-25 year-olds.
  • ptilsenptilsen Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I've never had this problem. I'm a little surprised, actually. Usually, they view it as a positive that you're furthering your education, and all the more impressive that you're doing it while working full-time. The only caveat is it needs to not be considered an "internship," which for a working professional who goes to school is just a funny way of saying "excuse to pay you less that you fell for."
    Working B.S., Computer Science
    Complete: 55/120 credits SPAN 201, LIT 100, ETHS 200, AP Lang, MATH 120, WRIT 231, ICS 140, MATH 215, ECON 202, ECON 201, ICS 141, MATH 210, LING 111, ICS 240
    In progress: CLEP US GOV,
    Next up: MATH 211, ECON 352, ICS 340
  • BGravesBGraves Posts: 339Member
    To be fair, I agree with above statements indicating $20 an hour is an acceptable amount while being a student. I myself spent 6 years in the Navy and then got out and went back to school, with that amount of experience but in a small city, I was thrilled to find a part time job while going to school that paid $20 an hour!

    However! After I completed my schooling and numerous certifications....they didn't offer a raise or anything to keep me even though I was producing high quality work and had very satisfied customers. That was a problem! I started looking and moved on eventually...but I would have stayed with them if they had even made an effort to keep me and pay me better! Something to think about...
  • ptilsenptilsen Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    ipchain wrote: »
    And a rate of 20$/hr is unacceptable to you while attending school? Personally, I would have loved the opportunity to work, even for FREE, when I was a student so that I could get the required experience most organizations asked for back then. Just something to think about, we should appreciate what we have and not take things for granted.
    Sure, but we also shouldn't accept significantly less than we're worth on the market. That OP is a student should not decrease his or her value. I'm a student, but wasn't two years ago, and $20/hr would have been a massive pay cut. Totally unacceptable when I know I'm worth more. I can't speak to what OP could be making, but if $20/hr feels low, that's probably the case.
    Qord wrote: »
    It's better than minimum wage. 'Round where I live, that pay's pretty good for the expected age group of 21-25 year-olds.
    Age is not a factor on its own, or at least shouldn't be. Also, being a working student doesn't imply early-mid-twenties. I'm 25 and I promise you I could make at least twice that in your area if I found an opening at my career/skill level. That my age peers in other fields can't make as much has no relevance to what I can earn, nor to what OP can earn (assuming we're age peers).
    BGraves wrote: »
    To be fair, I agree with above statements indicating $20 an hour is an acceptable amount while being a student.
    I just don't get where this is coming from. Being a student has and should have very little, if anything to do with one's earning power. I would be worth more than $20/hr without being a student and with no degree. Why is $20/hr suddenly acceptable? If OP's skills are sufficient to do a job that his or her employer values at more than $20/hr and for which they could not find an equally-or-better-suited candidate for $20/hr or less, then OP is almost certainly able to earn more than $20/hr and should seek that out.

    Are we equating studenthood with lacking qualifications? Because that obviously makes no sense given that OP has certifications and professional experience. It's not like OP is a first-year law student working as a paralegal complaining that other paralegals make more. OP is a qualified professional and may well have experience and skills that are worth $25/hr or more.

    Also, unless I've missed another thread, we don't even know where OP is. Five years of professional IT experience in NYC, for example, had sure better be worth more than $20/hr. Maybe that's reasonable for rural Dixie, but not everywhere.
    Working B.S., Computer Science
    Complete: 55/120 credits SPAN 201, LIT 100, ETHS 200, AP Lang, MATH 120, WRIT 231, ICS 140, MATH 215, ECON 202, ECON 201, ICS 141, MATH 210, LING 111, ICS 240
    In progress: CLEP US GOV,
    Next up: MATH 211, ECON 352, ICS 340
  • AkaricloudAkaricloud Posts: 938Member
    Most jobs actively looking for students are entry level and assume almost zero experience. If you have 5 years experience then you have no reason to be looking at internships or other jobs seeking inexperienced students.
  • QordQord Senior Member Posts: 629Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    ptilsen wrote: »
    Age is not a factor on it's own, or at least shouldn't be.

    I agree, but that's all we can assume about him is age. Sounds like he got an internship without knowing what an internship is all about. If that's the case, he's lucky it's $20. Or maybe he just got in with a crappy employer.

    Yeah, using my area as an example was not the greatest example...I live in an IT wasteland.
  • QHaloQHalo Posts: 1,488Member
    Why did you tell them you were a student anyway? What business is it of theirs?
  • CCNTraineeCCNTrainee Posts: 213Member
    LarryDaMan wrote: »
    If you have 5 years experience and the bias is only against you being a student.... maybe don't tell them you are in school. It is not mandatory to disclose that.

    +1 on this.
  • spartensparten Posts: 72Banned ■■□□□□□□□□
    QHalo wrote: »
    Why did you tell them you were a student anyway? What business is it of theirs?


    It's evident on my resume under that little section called "Education". I figure it's better to let them know that I'm a student working on my degree as opposed to someone with simply a high school diploma and some certifications.
  • QHaloQHalo Posts: 1,488Member
    That would be like putting down that you're working on your CCIE. Only relevant if you actually have it. Never seen where someone was hired if anyone cared that someone was 'working' on something. People work on stuff all the time and never finish (not saying you won't, guess I should edit before someone reads too far into this). I guess now you know. Still sucks.
  • ptilsenptilsen Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    It is better, and I think you made the right call. You just found a bad employer. Every employer that's actually interviewed me has either indicated positive reactions towards my being a student or ambivalence. I've never had it come up as a reason to pay me less.
    QHalo wrote: »
    That would be like putting down that you're working on your CCIE. Only relevant if you actually have it.
    I don't agree at all. "Working on" a degree means enrolled in classes and making progress. "Working on" a CCIE can be utter BS, meaning you do little to nothing. Many, probably most employers will verify your enrollment status. Some will even check for grades.

    On that note, I don't like to see "working on" for certifications in a resume, but it is good to see in a cover letter. It indicates the candidate's trajectory, interest, and motivations. On a resume it looks like padding. I wouldn't say the same about school, though. In-progress education is a resume-worthy credential.
    Working B.S., Computer Science
    Complete: 55/120 credits SPAN 201, LIT 100, ETHS 200, AP Lang, MATH 120, WRIT 231, ICS 140, MATH 215, ECON 202, ECON 201, ICS 141, MATH 210, LING 111, ICS 240
    In progress: CLEP US GOV,
    Next up: MATH 211, ECON 352, ICS 340
  • EveryoneEveryone Posts: 1,661Member
    It's no one's fault but your own then. They're paying you $20/hr because you applied for the position and accepted that wage. It has nothing to do with you being a student. The Education section on my resume lists how many credit hours I have towards a degree, which could imply I'm still working on one, but it's been almost a decade since I received my last credit. No one has ever paid me based on that single line.
  • --chris----chris-- Posts: 1,516Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    <----Working for $11/hour, I would club baby seals for $20/hour.

    $20 an hour is graduate pay TBH. Starting grad pay, but still not what I would expect from someone in a student position.


  • ptilsenptilsen Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    --chris-- wrote: »
    <----Working for $11/hour, I would club baby seals for $20/hour.
    You could finish your A+ and potentially make that. Certainly closer to that and above $11, no seal-clubbing required.
    --chris-- wrote: »
    $20 an hour is graduate pay TBH. Starting grad pay, but still not what I would expect from someone in a student position.
    High school graduate, I'll agree. You're going to need something seriously impressive on your resume if you lack a diploma and want to see $20/hr. Otherwise? Experience and low-mid-level certs will do, degree/degree-in-progress or not.
    Working B.S., Computer Science
    Complete: 55/120 credits SPAN 201, LIT 100, ETHS 200, AP Lang, MATH 120, WRIT 231, ICS 140, MATH 215, ECON 202, ECON 201, ICS 141, MATH 210, LING 111, ICS 240
    In progress: CLEP US GOV,
    Next up: MATH 211, ECON 352, ICS 340
  • --chris----chris-- Posts: 1,516Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    ptilsen wrote: »
    You could finish your A+ and potentially make that. Certainly closer to that and above $11, no seal-clubbing required.
    High school graduate, I'll agree. You're going to need something seriously impressive on your resume if you lack a diploma and want to see $20/hr. Otherwise? Experience and low-mid-level certs will do, degree/degree-in-progress or not.

    I was more or less pointing out how "interns/externs" get screwed monetarily, not necessarily stating that you need college level education to make $20/hour. I didn't make that clear.

    And I do agree, for the most part...except in metro Detroit wages are a bit lower than the rest of the US (but so is the standard of living). $12-$15 is the range I see for A+ work in the area and its not very often you see jobs like that. I have seen $8.00/hour for A+ recently, but I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain took the offer.

    edit: And I should offer a qualifier, I make $11/hour but I also have a tremendous learning experience that I am two months into. I am sure my employer benefits from me greatly @ $11/hour, but then again where else could I do desktop support/application support, basic network trouble shooting then setup some network monitoring software (and if I wanted to stay late setup a firewall and/or setup a fail over switch & router)? Its a decent trade off.


  • redzredz CISSP-ISSAP, ISSEP, ISSMP, CAP (& others) Posts: 265Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    --chris-- wrote: »
    I would club baby seals for $20/hour.
    I'd undercut you and do it for free.

    Poor baby seals.
  • --chris----chris-- Posts: 1,516Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    @redz;

    Microsoft is hosting a day long even in Southfield, RE: VMware and Hyper-V

    https://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032563381&Culture=en-US&community=0

    You going? I will be, even if its all WAY over my head...we could literally throw a rock from our parking lot and hit the building it will be in.


  • redzredz CISSP-ISSAP, ISSEP, ISSMP, CAP (& others) Posts: 265Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    @--chris--
    If you want to drive to Ann Arbor and pick me up, I'll fill your gas tank... otherwise, no.

    My car =/= a snow car. My affinity for fast cars came back to bite me when I was offered a job up here in MI.
  • ptilsenptilsen Posts: 2,835Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    Well, Detroit is certainly an anomaly. If I were willing to live there and could make what I do now, I could retire in a year or two. But my point was more that OP is not a prospective IT professional getting his first internship or entry-level gig, but rather is a working professional with experience who is "going back" to school, as some private trade school recruiters love to say.
    Working B.S., Computer Science
    Complete: 55/120 credits SPAN 201, LIT 100, ETHS 200, AP Lang, MATH 120, WRIT 231, ICS 140, MATH 215, ECON 202, ECON 201, ICS 141, MATH 210, LING 111, ICS 240
    In progress: CLEP US GOV,
    Next up: MATH 211, ECON 352, ICS 340
  • redzredz CISSP-ISSAP, ISSEP, ISSMP, CAP (& others) Posts: 265Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    ptilsen wrote: »
    Detroit is certainly an anomaly.
    I prefer to think of it as a trailblazer for the rest of the Legacy Cities. Or a prophecy.

    Wait what was this post about? I only showed up to talk about baby seals, how did we get to Hyper-V (and other black magics)?

    EDIT: Trailblazer of the Year Award!
  • --chris----chris-- Posts: 1,516Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    redz wrote: »
    If you want to drive to Ann Arbor and pick me up, I'll fill your gas tank... otherwise, no.

    My car =/= a snow car. My affinity for fast cars came back to bite me when I was offered a job up here in MI.

    Ill have you picked up by the new guy we just hired, he lives in Ypsi lol.

    Well damn, another time then...

    @ptilsen, I dont think anyone is willing to live here...


  • BGravesBGraves Posts: 339Member
    ptilsen wrote: »
    I just don't get where this is coming from. Being a student has and should have very little, if anything to do with one's earning power. I would be worth more than $20/hr without being a student and with no degree. Why is $20/hr suddenly acceptable? If OP's skills are sufficient to do a job that his or her employer values at more than $20/hr and for which they could not find an equally-or-better-suited candidate for $20/hr or less, then OP is almost certainly able to earn more than $20/hr and should seek that out.

    Are we equating studenthood with lacking qualifications? Because that obviously makes no sense given that OP has certifications and professional experience. It's not like OP is a first-year law student working as a paralegal complaining that other paralegals make more. OP is a qualified professional and may well have experience and skills that are worth $25/hr or more.

    Also, unless I've missed another thread, we don't even know where OP is. Five years of professional IT experience in NYC, for example, had sure better be worth more than $20/hr. Maybe that's reasonable for rural Dixie, but not everywhere.

    To be fair, you're working out of a large city right? I pointed out I worked in a small city and it was a part time job while I was taking 21 credits per semester. I was happy to be making a good amount of money for the part time job I was doing. I might have been earning my company 100-120 an hour but it sure beat the 7.50 an hour jobs that most college students end up with! Like I said, when I had graduated and obtained a number of other certs and they still didn't offer to give me a raise, I moved on with no problem!

    The above poster has a A+, Net+ and if his skills are similar to his certifications (which they may not be), then yeah...5 years and two foundational certs in my mind is doing pretty well for 20 an hour while being a part time worker/student.

    It really does come down to where you live and what opportunities are available! I moved on from that area after graduating and was able to double my salary with no questions asked.
  • glenn_33glenn_33 Senior Member Baltimore, MDPosts: 113Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    hey, $20/hr is more than I make...and I'm not a student icon_sad.gif
    A+/N+/S+/CCNA:RS/CCNA:Sec
  • Khaos1911Khaos1911 Posts: 366Member
    Mannnn, my first IT internship, I was making 15.25 an hour where I was really suppose to be making 11.25 an hour but HR assumed that I was a grad student because I'm taller and more mature looking dude than their current interns at the time. I was happy as a pig in ish to be making 15.25 an hour, lol. I thought I was rich! Before that I was putting up produce at the local market for 8 bucks an hour.
  • spartensparten Posts: 72Banned ■■□□□□□□□□
    I don't get some of the comments in this thread. I live in NYC area, and it's nearly impossible to live comfortably on $20/hr. I don't get how you guys do it, but to each his own.
  • lunchbox67lunchbox67 Posts: 131Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Everyone wrote: »
    It's no one's fault but your own then. They're paying you $20/hr because you applied for the position and accepted that wage. It has nothing to do with you being a student. The Education section on my resume lists how many credit hours I have towards a degree, which could imply I'm still working on one, but it's been almost a decade since I received my last credit. No one has ever paid me based on that single line.

    icon_thumright.gif
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