Is it actually necessary

jwalk33

Hi all,

I'm looking to eventually work to earning my CCNA and will start by taking the CCENT cert exam; I have purchased this ebook below:

CCENT Study Guide: Exam 100-101 (ICND1) by Lammle, Todd (Jul 23, 2013)




As you may know, it allows for the use of the IOS CCENT Simulator, would this be sufficient for my studies? I was thinking about purchasing some old used Cisco routers and switches from ebay. However what IOS version and number of routers and switches do you suggest for home lab.

Think I'd much rather have the actual hardware to use for labs and gain real world hands on experience.

NOTE: I am on a budget so no expensive CCNA hardware labs or hardware equipment period. Last time I was looking into doing this I was finding hardware with doable IOSs for about $30-$40 a piece.

I also have the CCNA Virtual Lab Platinum Edition software CD, if this would suffice. Though it might be a bit outdated since I got it while in school about/over a year ago.



Thanks,
Jwalk33

Staunchy

For CCNA all you need is packet tracer or/and GNS3. GNS3 emulate real cisco IOS but has limited switching functionality but for routing it is great.

RouteMyPacket

Staunchy wrote: »

For CCNA all you need is packet tracer or/and GNS3. GNS3 emulate real cisco IOS but has limited switching functionality but for routing it is great.

Agreed, no need to waste money on equipment at the CCNA level.

DevilWAH

And how do you get packet tracer on the cheap? oK I know "how" but I mean if you where to go through the correct channels how much would it cost?

DoubleNNs

Packet Tracer is a free program. But you're supposed to be part of the Cisco Net Academy to get access to it.

DevilWAH

DoubleNNs wrote: »

Packet Tracer is a free program. But you're supposed to be part of the Cisco Net Academy to get access to it.

Exactly you have to have a academy membership to get it which is not so cheap. So it is not a "free" program it is part of the academy package. Unless you find other non legal method to get it.

networker050184

DevilWAH wrote: »

Unless you find other non legal method to get it.

Which we will not discuss here. You have to be a student of the academy to get it. End of story.

jwalk33

networker050184 wrote: »

Which we will not discuss here. You have to be a student of the academy to get it. End of story.

So if I have GNS3 do I still need the "Packet tracer" you guys are referring to? Isn't wireshark doable?

BTW, you guys rock and provide so much help/info everytime I'm come here looking for help... and its prompt.



Thanks again,
Jwalk33

networker050184

NO you don't need Packet tracer for GNS3. Packet tracer is just a simulation program from the Cisco academy.

DoubleNNs

Packet Tracer is very different from Wireshark. Packet Tracer simulates a Cisco network and allows you to practice the Cisco IOS command line.

Packet Tracer is helpful because GNS3 is not the best when practicing Switching. Packet tracer is useful for practicing both the Routing and Switching performed at the CCENT/CCNA level.

DevilWAH

Hi,

Apologies if my last post was not clear, people often talk as though packet tracer and GNS3 are free alternatives to having real equipment. This is not the case, there are generally cheaper, but should not be mistaken as freely available or usable.

Packet tracer is a simulator, this means it "pretends" to behave like the real equipment, and to be honest its a great tool to learn on, personally I wold spend the money getting access to the academy rather than real equipment. You basically drag and drop devices in a window, can connect to them via CLi or some basic config can be done on a GUI. What its great about it is that not only can you configue what is now quite complex set up way beyond the CCNA requirements and much of the CCNP course as well. you can watch packets traveling across the wire, see how the devices receive and forward the data and exactly how your configuration affects traffic flow. It's a great introduction to networking and very very easy to pick up with some good basic examples to get you going.

https://www.netacad.com/documents/300010/11300388/Cisco_PacketTracer_AAG.pdf/39c04df5-0cf0-4267-81b8-9cd98c1f43f8

GNS3 is a true emulator, this means it runs real Cisco (and some other vendors) operating systems. So you can down load the IOS from your real hardware and run with in GNS3, of course if you have one image file you can create as many concurrent routers running that image as your PC will allow (around 20 on a medium spec PC). you connect via the console port or SSH in to the real CLi and you have identical function to the real hard ware. It integrates with wire shark to allow you to capture date on any link to review and also virtual box so you can create "real" network with routers and servers and even bridge it in to the "real" world. How ever it has two issues. First it is a much steeper learning curve, if you don't have much network background it can be cumbersome to get up and running. Second there is the issue of getting hold of the IOS image, if you dont have any hardware with and IOS image on it then you don't have an image you can run. Cisco seem (and I only say this from talking to our Cisco account manager it is not Cisco's official stance as far as I know), that as long as you own a router with the image you want to use, and you are not using GNS3 for corporate or commercial purposes then Cisco are not going to do any thing and will leave you alone. In fact it is used by a lot of internal Cisco technical staff, but there official standing is that and IOS image is licences to a hard ware device not a company or individual so you can read in to that as you wish. Hopefully with the new version of GNS3 coming out this year it should clear up this issue as they have hinted they have been talking with Vendors and are hoping to included a basic IOS image with the software licensed by Cisco, the interface and usability should also be improving but that's not out till the end of the year sadly.

http://www.gns3.net/

The safest way is to either buy some real hardware (a second hand 3600 router will only set you back £50), you then have an IOS image to use in GNS3 if you want and some real hardware to play with the physical connections as GNS3 does not correctly emulate all the serial link settings. Or get access to the academy, does any one know the cheapest way you can do this? Personally I have no idea if this is £10's or £100's of pounds?

jwalk33

Okay I am now somewhat confused and wish I was financially in a position to just go out and buy/pay for all the best things needed to help me... but I'm not.

Think I will spend more time learning and fiddling around with software simulators/emulators to the point I'll become discouraged; I say this in response your post here, and the fact that I downloaded GNS3 about 30 mins ago and can't seem to drag a router to work area (grayed out), I can drag over a switch (think this explains what you were saying about Cisco IOSs images); therefore I think I will choose buying the actual used hardware route.


A guy on youtube seems to suggest going to some site for images, if I understand this all correctly.

Again, how many Cisco 3600 routers w/what IOS, same for Cisco switches. Rather have it right in front of me any how.

Is this worth the costs and will suffice: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-2600-3600-2610-3640-Routers-CCNA-CCNP-CCIE-Lab-/120356340993


Thanks,
Jwalk33

networker050184

The only way to get the IOS is to have a valid contract with Cisco for the device. Any other methods of illegally obtaining an IOS will not be discussed here.

My advice is to get started studying the basics first. Then how may routers and switches will become more obvious to you as you progress in your studies. That being said three routers and three switches is about the norm for a CCNA lab.

tombosauce

If you don't want to go the GNS3/Packet Tracer route, Boson has a decent simulator with premade labs. It also lets you create your own network to play around with. It's $99 for just the CCENT version or $179 for CCENT/CCNA. I think the only real difference is the labs that come with it.

I used it, and it was enough to get me through CCENT. Boson Netsim

jwalk33

networker050184 wrote: »

The only way to get the IOS is to have a valid contract with Cisco for the device. Any other methods of illegally obtaining an IOS will not be discussed here.

My advice is to get started studying the basics first. Then how may routers and switches will become more obvious to you as you progress in your studies. That being said three routers and three switches is about the norm for a CCNA lab.

Okay I understand and wasn't sure if the method the guy was using was legit or not. Can you please advise as to what IOS ver for router/switches. I've been reading but want to have someway of doing labs when time comes and not have to be derailed by ordering/shipping.

Thanks again,
Jwalk33

DoubleNNs

Boson Netsim is 25% off if you like Boson's page on Facebook.

The 25% off sale ends tomorrow however.

instant000

I saw one review of the Platinum edition software, and it wasn't too friendly.

You could learn a lot from trying real EQ, just keep it to a minimum, so that you know enough what a real piece of EQ looks like, but you don't want to deal with a lot of high electricity bills.

I'd recommend something small, so you can do simple topologies using most of what is in the CCNA curriculum.

If you want to get Packet Tracer from the Cisco Network Academy on the cheap, try a local community college.

instant000

jwalk33 wrote: »

Okay I understand and wasn't sure if the method the guy was using was legit or not. Can you please advise as to what IOS ver for router/switches. I've been reading but want to have someway of doing labs when time comes and not have to be derailed by ordering/shipping.

Thanks again,
Jwalk33

Wendell Odom's site should provide just the information you're looking for.

CCNA Build Lists

Hope this helps!

DevilWAH

If you are going to buy a router just make sure it has an image version of 12.4 as this is what most certification currently use. you will also see IP-base / IP-advanced / security and others. For CCNA IP-base is plenty, but if you can get more then go for it. generally the feature sets are additive so IP-advanced has all the features in ip-base as well as more advanced stuff. but all images feature sets will contain all the core routing protocols and configuration.

Try to get some Wic cards and serial cables as lots of certifications especially the CCNA cover configuring WAN interfaces as well as Ethernet. 2 or 3 3640 routers would set you back about £150 with all the leads and is a great starting point. Switch's anything from the 3550 up will do for CCNA, again version 12.4 with the highest feature set you can get. Switch's these can be picked up for about £60-80 if you are lucky just have to look around. (Try the Certification Kit link on this forum) to start with one will be fine to get your head around it, you will want more before long but if you get serious you might want to splash out on a 3650 or even 3750 but these are not so cheap.

if you have

2 X 36xx routers
1 X 3550 switch with the ip-service feature set image

then you have in effect 3 routers (3550 switch is a layer 3 switch so can take part in the network as a router) and you can start creating simple topology with dynamic routing protocols. You could probable get this all for < £200, and I know that's not cheap especially when you are starting out and may not have a great income. But stick with it and if it gets you in to networking with in a year it will pay you back.

I dont have a hardware lab any more at home, I get to play on new gear as I set up new enterprise networks so have a lot of test and spare equipment to play with. But I started with 2 X 3640's and 2 X 3550 and it was great fun to have the real kit in my hands to play with, and while I use GNS3 a lot these days, its still not quite the same as plugging in real cables ficking the power switch and hearing it come to life.

If you do get the real kit and start progressing the other thing to put on your wish list when you can afford it is a terminal server. This connects to all the console ports of your equipment and allows you to switch between them from a single interface. when you are learning its very easy to lock your self out of a device or make it unreachable over the network. having remote console access can save you having to contently swap calbes about and means you can put the equipment out of ear shot (it will be loud).

jwalk33

DevilWAH wrote: »

If you are going to buy a router just make sure it has an image version of 12.4 as this is what most certification currently use. you will also see IP-base / IP-advanced / security and others. For CCNA IP-base is plenty, but if you can get more then go for it. generally the feature sets are additive so IP-advanced has all the features in ip-base as well as more advanced stuff. but all images feature sets will contain all the core routing protocols and configuration.

Try to get some Wic cards and serial cables as lots of certifications especially the CCNA cover configuring WAN interfaces as well as Ethernet. 2 or 3 3640 routers would set you back about £150 with all the leads and is a great starting point. Switch's anything from the 3550 up will do for CCNA, again version 12.4 with the highest feature set you can get. Switch's these can be picked up for about £60-80 if you are lucky just have to look around. (Try the Certification Kit link on this forum) to start with one will be fine to get your head around it, you will want more before long but if you get serious you might want to splash out on a 3650 or even 3750 but these are not so cheap.

if you have

2 X 36xx routers
1 X 3550 switch with the ip-service feature set image

then you have in effect 3 routers (3550 switch is a layer 3 switch so can take part in the network as a router) and you can start creating simple topology with dynamic routing protocols. You could probable get this all for < £200, and I know that's not cheap especially when you are starting out and may not have a great income. But stick with it and if it gets you in to networking with in a year it will pay you back.

I dont have a hardware lab any more at home, I get to play on new gear as I set up new enterprise networks so have a lot of test and spare equipment to play with. But I started with 2 X 3640's and 2 X 3550 and it was great fun to have the real kit in my hands to play with, and while I use GNS3 a lot these days, its still not quite the same as plugging in real cables ficking the power switch and hearing it come to life.

If you do get the real kit and start progressing the other thing to put on your wish list when you can afford it is a terminal server. This connects to all the console ports of your equipment and allows you to switch between them from a single interface. when you are learning its very easy to lock your self out of a device or make it unreachable over the network. having remote console access can save you having to contently swap calbes about and means you can put the equipment out of ear shot (it will be loud).

So would these work even though they are not 36xx but have IOS 12.4. I agree, I want to play/work with real equipment especially since I like configuring hardware.

2 x these?

Cisco 2650 128 32 CCNA CCNP CCVP CCIE Adv Ent 12 4 iOS | eBay


Thanks,
Jwalk33

jwalk33

instant000 wrote: »

Wendell Odom's site should provide just the information you're looking for.

CCNA Build Lists

Hope this helps!

Checking website now viewing demo videos, this just might be what I need is buying actual hardware proves too expensive or troublesome to find.


Thanks,
Jwalk33

jwalk33

instant000 wrote: »

Wendell Odom's site should provide just the information you're looking for.

CCNA Build Lists

Hope this helps!

Yes it does help, my only concern is the date of the original posting, or am I okay here?


Thanks,
Jwalk33

DevilWAH

jwalk33 wrote: »

So would these work even though they are not 36xx but have IOS 12.4. I agree, I want to play/work with real equipment especially since I like configuring hardware.

2 x these?

Cisco 2650 128 32 CCNA CCNP CCVP CCIE Adv Ent 12 4 iOS | eBay


Thanks,
Jwalk33

yep they even have advance enterprise that packs in all the features you could possible need. nice starting point.

As far as CCNA is concerned all models of router with the same IOS version and same feature set will be pretty much identical once you are logged on. The differences are mostly in throughput/available modules you can fit and the more advanced features but as you wont be touching these for a while yet no need to worry. And if you do decided to grow your lab later with bigger and better equipment these will still fit in to it nicley. The only reason I say 3640's is because they where my first routers that where getting thrown out and I was given

jwalk33

instant000 wrote: »

I saw one review of the Platinum edition software, and it wasn't too friendly.

You could learn a lot from trying real EQ, just keep it to a minimum, so that you know enough what a real piece of EQ looks like, but you don't want to deal with a lot of high electricity bills.

I'd recommend something small, so you can do simple topologies using most of what is in the CCNA curriculum.

If you want to get Packet Tracer from the Cisco Network Academy on the cheap, try a local community college.

Okay I will check with local CC and see what they offer since i did complete my gen-eds there. What is EQ? Tried googling it but nothing related populates.


Thanks,
Jwalk33

jwalk33

Okay kool, just inquired to seller if had another for sale. Fingers crossed!

jwalk33

DevilWAH wrote: »

yep they even have advance enterprise that packs in all the features you could possible need. nice starting point.

As far as CCNA is concerned all models of router with the same IOS version and same feature set will be pretty much identical once you are logged on. The differences are mostly in throughput/available modules you can fit and the more advanced features but as you wont be touching these for a while yet no need to worry. And if you do decided to grow your lab later with bigger and better equipment these will still fit in to it nicley. The only reason I say 3640's is because they where my first routers that where getting thrown out and I was given

Okay kool, just inquired to seller if had another for sale. Fingers crossed!


Thanks,
Jwalk33

DevilWAH

AS mentioned Certification Kit are linked to on this site and provide equipment if you are in the US.

CCNA Certification Kits

jwalk33

Hi all,

Since it will be about a month or so before I'm able to purchase actual lab "hardware", and just because I'm a bit curious to know/use GNS3, does anyone know where I can find a IOS.bin for to use with GNS3. Or do i not need it?


Thanks,
jwalk33

MAC_Addy

The only way to obtain IOS is to have a valid contract with Cisco. End of story.

I'd recommend following the link for Wendell Odom's build. If you get 2x 2950's and 3 1721's, you'll be looking at less than $100 (probably including shipping, too). This way you can get your feet wet with the actual hardware. Some may require a password reset, which is quite valuable in learning IOS commands.

Also, if you do actually pick up this hardware, you can use the IOS images on GSN3.

However, I do recommend that instead of picking up 1721's, I'd get 2600XM's.

jwalk33

Hi and thanks,

What exactly are you saying I could get for under/around $100, are you saying 2 routers and switches? If so, I would really like to know where you are talking about I can get these from?

I've wrecking my brain trying to find suitable hardware for my CCNA studies and can't seem to find anything affordable for me. Please remember/know that I have limited funds for this when making suggestions.

Would this work with 1 more additional switch of same kind added?

Cisco Ccent CCNA Lab 2X 1760 WIC 1T Router 2X 2950 24 640 802 200 120 | eBay



Again, thanks,
jwalk33

MAC_Addy

Don't go for the bundles, that's where the pricing will jump up. Also, be patient. I built up my rack over the space of two years. Look for individual items on ebay. You'll have better luck scoping out pieces that way.