So I bought a new laptop

tprice5

I decided to completely ditch Apple computers. Sold my Mac mini and Macbook within a week of each other. If anyone cares to know why just ask and I'll explain.

Moving along ...

I bought an HP Envy 15-j171nr. If you look at the specs on that page is makes no mentioned of an SSD, nor does it give an SSD option in the build (with the exception of an 'SSD Update Kit' in the accessories). This was an acceptable trade off for me in terms of price, especially since I could simply order one from Amazon and install it in a few months (lets be honest, weeks) from now.
I then check the HP Data Sheet that they link to from the product page (linked earlier) and it says ...

• 750GB 5400RPM hard drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection(4a)
• Hard drive acceleration cache (24GB solid-state drive cache) with Intel® Rapid Start Technology and Intel®
Smart Response Technology.

So does it have an SSD or not? I have all ready bought the thing so it doesn't really matter at this point but I would be pretty pumped if it did. Amazon lists it as having one and even goes as far to call this a gaming notebook.

Thoughts on this selection of laptop? I was going to go with the Asus S500 Vivobook mainly because of the price and the touch screen option but I've been wanting to play Diablo 3 for awhile now and integrated graphics weren't going to cut it. I don't have much experience in gaming builds but my research says the NVIDIA GeForce GT 740M will run it okay.

Pros:
Graphics card
8gb 1 dimm (incase I want to bump to 16gb in the future)
bump to i7
backlit keyboard
1920 x 1080 display

Cool but not really relevant enough to be a pro:
Beats audio (we'll see if this is worth the hype. Seems gimmicky)
Biometric login
50gb box cloud storage account

Con:
No SSD (maybe not?)
No touchscreen
Price $846. Was more than I wanted to spend, especially after shipping and tax ($81.68! Amazon has spoiled me) but I believe it is pretty decent as far as gaming capable pcs go.

iBrokeIT

tprice5 wrote: »

I• 750GB 5400RPM hard drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection(4a)
• Hard drive acceleration cache (24GB solid-state drive cache) with Intel® Rapid Start Technology and Intel®
Smart Response Technology.

So does it have an SSD or not? I

Its both. Its a hybrid drive.

gc8dc95

Beat me to it ^^^^^

Sounds like it is probably a hybrid drive. Still a HDD, but uses some SS memory to cache common items for speed.

I have an HP Envy and it has served me well so far and I like that it is slim and light.
- i5
-16GB Ram
-512GB Crucial SSD

The audio is actually pretty decent for a laptop, but it wasn't a selling point for me anyway. Mine has biometric login as well, never use it.

I run multiple VM's, GNS3 plus my daily stuff and haven't had any issues. (Of course the SSD and extra memory help!)

tprice5

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Its both. Its a hybrid drive.

Ah I see. Thanks for the reply.

gc8dc95 wrote: »

I run multiple VM's, GNS3 plus my daily stuff and haven't had any issues. (Of course the SSD and extra memory help!)

I've got a separate rackmount host for all my VMs and an HTPC for all my media so I doubt I will need anymore than 8 but I am certainly grateful that this is 1x8gb vs 2x4gb in the event that I do decide to upgrade.

gc8dc95 wrote: »

-512GB Crucial SSD

This! So when I go to replace the OS drive, is there any way to activate Windows using the same key as the previous image? It'd be nice if it came with a Windows 8.1 product key.

gc8dc95

It's actually pretty easy. I did it right away, so I didn't have to worry about any applications to reinstall.

You can create a USB key with the Windows 8 image and installation files. You then just basically slap the new drive in and reimage. Done.

Windows 8 OEM keys should be in the BIOS already.

ande0255

I just put a Samsung Evo 250gb SSD in my new laptop, and it came with a setup dvd that cloned my current HDD to the new SSD, all I needed was my external hard drive case to plug in the new drive for the cloning process then just popped it into my laptop with no issues - just booted like the normal HDD only a LOT faster

tprice5

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST
Ahhhh. Snazzy!

DoubleNNs

I'm actually curious as to why you decided to ditch Apple computers.

iBrokeIT

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST

Probably price, usually Windows computers are cheaper with similar hardware.

tprice5

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST
While this is true, it had little to no affect on my decision. I had all ready invested in the Apple ecosystem. I sold my 2008 Macbook for $280 (80KD ) and my 2011 8GB Mac mini for $400. To replace the Macbook with the new HP cost me about $550. I built out a htpc for about $330 but paid $50 in shipping so I pretty much broke even on that front. This is all to say that money really wasn't a factor for me.

I was really just tired of straddling between OSX and Windows. Professionally, I am a windows guy, and as a simple by-product of my profession I've emmassed a decent knowledge base of the platform. So when I run into problems on my Macs that I could solve instantly if it were on Windows, it is frustrating and I have to google my way through everything.
You kind of reach a threshold of hot keys you can remember between the two platforms. Like I imagine is common with many of us IT folks, especially Linux guys, I only like to touch my mouse when I absolutely have to. Sometimes I will try 6 or 7 different key combos before admitting defeat and reaching for the mouse. When I start using Mac short cuts it is truly frustrating. Usually you can just sub the Windows and CMD key but that only works a fraction of the time, not to mention the keyboards are just physically differentl. This handicap is multiplied x9000 when working in virtual environments. CMD + Q will shutdown VMware and pause all of your VMs and it will take you at least 10 minutes to get everything booted and back to where you were.
I've been getting more into the hardware aspect of IT and no one 'builds' a Mac, you buy them.
Lastly, building a mature home lab environment that is Mac and PC friendly is simply beyond my scope of expertise. I don't know how to UNC from my mac. I've attempted to join it to the domain unsuccessfully. There is no RDP. It just wasn't working for me. Simplification was necessary.

I am sure I am going to miss certain aspects of the Mac and I haven't ditched apple entirely. I still have an iPad 2 and an iPhone 5 that I will likely be holding onto. I was open to the idea of swapping them but for the tablet I only use it for Clash of Clans and it does that very well. For the iPhone it is all ready paid for and unlocked. All of the other decent phones are $450 plus (keep that in mind for all of you who complain about AT&T/Verizon contracts; I sure do miss those subsidies). If I tried out the LG G2 and liked it I would be open to a trade but other than that I'm good.

So yeah, that's why I left Apple.

EDIT: Things I will miss..
-Magsafe chargers. I wish someone would just say eff it and straight up copy and impliment this technology into a PC. Looking at you Samsung . Better yet, Magsafe everything.. ethernet, headphone jack, etc etc.

tprice5

Every other IT professional using Mac, how do you sidestep these crippling issues that I have faced in your home or work environment? Can you sympathise with me or do you just see me as a quitter?

iBrokeIT

If you really want to stick with the Apple hardware and want easy: create a Windows VM on your laptop that you use for Windows administration and labbing.

tprice5

@iBrokeIT
While I appreciate the input, if you'll read the post in it's entirety you'll see that I was all ready doing that...

@tprice5
I have not voiced any desire to retain Apple hardware, though perhpas that may have been enferred by comment regarding the Magsafe. My requirements were simplification and I achieved that. There are some definite downsides to working within Windows VMs in Apple hardware..
1. As with all VMs, you are working within a subset of the total resources.
2. Hot keys
3. Complexity in networking.

Alternatively I will likely just build a OSX 10.9 VM if I ever get to missing it all.

--chris--

I have met about 30% of the 400 IT people here, and so far none of them use Mac at home. So you are not alone...

tprice5

And here I was thinking people would jump at the chance to bash apple.

TechGuru80

tprice5 wrote: »

And here I was thinking people would jump at the chance to bash apple.

Who would bash something that simply works?

tprice5

TechGuru80 wrote: »

Who would bash something that simply works?

I completely agree with you which is why I used one for 5 years. I was mainly just poking fun at the die hard Pc vs Mac rivalry. That's still a thing right? I haven't witnessed it in awhile but people used to get pretty worked up over the whole thing.

Cert Poor

tprice5 wrote: »

I completely agree with you which is why I used one for 5 years. I was mainly just poking fun at the die hard Pc vs Mac rivalry. That's still a thing right? I haven't witnessed it in awhile but people used to get pretty worked up over the whole thing.

My main beef:

1) Steve Jobs's abusive leadership.
2) Apple's price points for the same specs
3) Lack of customization
4) Arrogance in thinking they know what's best for us.
5) Giving us less product by packaging it into a fancy design package. For example, the wireless router only has a 3-port switch but the price point is through the roof. The NAS device with Access Point is also overpriced for what it delivers.

I think Apple products have good marketing and look pretty, and I do respect that most "just work," but I just can't respect Apple due to Steve Jobs.

Also this is a slap to the face:

Apple Directors Overrule Shareholders on Spy Lockout as Woz Joins Movement

Cupertino — At Friday’s Apple shareholder meeting, Apple’s directors overruled an urgent, popular shareholder resolution entitled Spy Lockout, aimed at improving security and keeping NSA surveillance and other intruders out of Apple’s products and systems. The same morning, Apple co-Founder Steve Wozniak endorsed the Spy Lockout initiative.

Apple had quietly advised shareholders in its January 10, 2014 Proxy Statement that directors Bruce Sewell and Peter Oppenheimer would exercise their discretionary voting authority — their ability to cast votes for on behalf of shareholders who toss their voting forms in the trash — to defeat the proposal, without citing any reason.

They have no respect for their own shareholders, let alone their customers.

stryder144

@Cert Poor...all good points. I will say, in reference to point 2, that when you put a premium HP or Dell up against the Apple, spec for spec, often times the price difference is only $100 - $300. Of course, that price difference is, in essence, the cost of a second, low-end laptop.

@tprice5...if you want the best of both worlds drive-wise, consider investing in a WD Black2 Dual Drive. It has a 120gb SSD (others use an 8gb cache drive) that you install Windows on. Once you have everything set up, you can unlock the 1tb HDD. Speed (SSD) and capacity (HDD), all in one common form factor. A bit pricey (north of $200).

wes allen

I will say a solid percent of the IT Security people I know, including several that I highly respect, use Mac's with linux and maybe Windows VM's. I switch from Mac, to Win7 to a couple flavors of Linux throughout the day, and the only think that really is an issue for me is the hot key thing. I haven't had a personal windows box since last spring - moved to Linux as my primary OS until I bought another Mac Mini last month, which I run a Kali VM on. Really can't be happier, esp. since I don't have to give up any of the unix cli commands I have started to use(cat, cut, grep sort, unique), and OSX has python pre installed.

tprice5

stryder144 wrote: »

when you put a premium HP or Dell up against the Apple, spec for spec, often times the price difference is only $100 - $300. Of course, that price difference is, in essence, the cost of a second, low-end laptop.

While brand new this may be true but at least Dell/Asus/HPs go on sale every now and again. The price of the HP Envy at checkout before shipping/tax was around $750. I haven't checked all the Specs but the 15" Macbook Pro starts at $1999. I think they offer like $100 off around Christmas but other than that Apple doesn't really have sales.

stryder144 wrote: »

@tprice5...if you want the best of both worlds drive-wise, consider investing in a WD Black2 Dual Drive. It has a 120gb SSD (others use an 8gb cache drive) that you install Windows on. Once you have everything set up, you can unlock the 1tb HDD. Speed (SSD) and capacity (HDD), all in one common form factor. A bit pricey (north of $200).

It's actually not that expensive when you look at the alternative. If you have 1 2.5" hard drive bay in your laptop and you want SSD speeds and HDD storage then you are going to need a 1.8" SSD and a 1.8" HDD. When you take the combination of those two price tags you are likely going to exceed the cost of the WD Black2.

wes allen wrote: »

I will say a solid percent of the IT Security people I know, including several that I highly respect, use Mac's with linux and maybe Windows VM's. I switch from Mac, to Win7 to a couple flavors of Linux throughout the day, and the only think that really is an issue for me is the hot key thing. I haven't had a personal windows box since last spring - moved to Linux as my primary OS until I bought another Mac Mini last month, which I run a Kali VM on. Really can't be happier, esp. since I don't have to give up any of the unix cli commands I have started to use(cat, cut, grep sort, unique), and OSX has python pre installed.

I think it's safe to say the IT security community all predominately use linux because that is what the majority of their toolset is built on. Security guys don't deal with the underlying infrastructure as much though so I don't think they run into quite the same kind of problems. Lack of active directory support alone is enough to be a deal breaker.

gkca

tprice5 wrote: »

Lack of active directory support alone is enough to be a deal breaker.

What do you mean by that? Interact with Macs in a Windows and Active Directory Environment

tprice5

I'm aware that it is possible but I was unsuccessful in setting it up.

How about file sharing? What is the Mac equivelent to the \\myMacComputer\C$

Also I forgot to mentioned the lack of command line and the learning curve of bash in terminal. This one wasn't a huge deal for me because I learned on a linux server during undergrad but as I progress in my knowledge of cmd line and powershell it makes bash feel pretty limiting.

Cisc0kidd

My MBP was $1100 delivered and they threw in a couple bonus programs free of charge at B&H Photo.

tprice5

Cisc0kidd wrote: »

My MBP was $1100 delivered and they threw in a couple bonus programs free of charge at B&H Photo.

Good deal. Enjoy it! Would recommend them to ALMOST anyone

tprice5

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Its both. Its a hybrid drive.

So the more research I do, the less I think this has a hybrid drive. I think it actually has an mSATA SSD like the one shown here on Amazon. When going with a configurable build the hybrid hard drive was a selectable upgrade. If they were including a hybrid I think they would be a little more forthcoming. Plus the mSATA just makes more sense. Will be sure to crack her open and take a peak once she comes in. That'll likely be in 12 days or so which is the usual time frame to receive packages out here.

Also it is on this mSATA compatibility list. It says HP Envy 15 but that could emcompasses quite a few models of computers so we'll see.

stryder144

@tprice5 - I agree that the dual drive is not expensive, when compared to the alternatives (not to mention, some computers are really difficult to upgrade with two drives). Of course, some people are quite sensitive to price, so I figure that any drive over the normal price of, say, $100 is considered expensive. Then again, I'm basing my opinion off of people who come into the Best Buy that I work at, so ymmv. Sadly, the store is in a very affluent area where most patrons could afford to replace one year old Macs with current Macs.

As for the sale thing, you are also correct. It is very possible to buy an HP/Dell/Lenovo on sale, similar specs to a Mac, for a substantial discount. Of course, since this is a tech site, the ability to customize a computer before purchase is a big deal for many of us. I prefer the Mac OS, or Linux, over Windows but don't like the fact that the hardware is so uncustomizable. That is why recently I have started looking at MSI products. They seem to have a variety of configs, from mSATA drive options to even having RAID capabilities, at reasonable prices.

Cheers

Kinet1c

tprice5 wrote: »

And here I was thinking people would jump at the chance to bash apple.

I'll be jumping at the chance to pick up a rMBP as soon as financially able!

tpatt100

The primary reason I bought a Macbook Pro after several Windows laptops was that I really had no idea what a "good" laptop was in the Windows side of things because so many vendors all trying to get noticed were always changing things every six months. I had a good experience with my titanium Powerbook G4 back in the day and the reviews were pretty good plus I could check if there were issues with a specific model since there were plenty of people who had them so if problems were discovered it hit a lot of people at once.

I had several Dells over the years and HP and was noticing I was getting burnt with models that were quickly and quietly discontinued due to hardware issues especially the two Dells I had. Spending so much time on the phone with customer support arguing for a replacement to the newer model and the customer support rep not wanting to look at my link to the Dell forums multi-page threads complaining about a hardware issue I was describing.

Then I ran into the issue twice now where Dell and HP both refused to release an updated BIOS to support Windows 7 and then Windows 8 for two different laptops and two different time periods that I bought at the end of their product sale cycle.

So for me it wasn't a "Windows" issue it was finding a trustworthy laptop supplier that only makes a couple of models so I can easily check to see if there are any trends in customer complaints.

Except now... Apple made their Macbooks thinner and next to impossible to add RAM to so I am going to look at Lenovo laptops next time since I don't want to pay way more to get extra RAM. For the average consumer though the Apple laptops get good reviews and the consumer can go to an Apple store if they have one nearby for support.

Let me know how the hybrid drive works for you. I am thinking of sticking with SSD in laptops but maybe going with a hybrid for the desktop because while I love SSD drives in my desktop it would be nice to get a little benefit from caching of frequently used programs but still have a really big storage drive also.

Cert Poor

tprice5 wrote: »

How about file sharing? What is the Mac equivelent to the \\myMacComputer\C$

I'm not familiar with how Mac OS X does administrative shares like C$ but for general UNC stuff, you can do smb://server/whatever/

Not sure if this helps. It's based off NetBSD, so to administer Mac OS X I'd start there...

Cpl.Klinger

--chris-- wrote: »

I have met about 30% of the 400 IT people here, and so far none of them use Mac at home. So you are not alone...

I use a Mac at home and work, but I support iOS devices so it kind of goes with the territory. Still have a Windows 7 PC at my desk for testing iOS device issues with.