How hard is it for people with sub-par intellects to get jobs in this field.

cooldudemanus · May 2010

FadeToBright wrote: »

Like others have said - you're not giving yourself enough credit!

You seem articulate enough, and if you enjoy computers/IT the way you say you do, then you'll be fine.

Also, what's the harm in trying? You will find out one of two things. a.) you're good at it or b.) you're not so good at it.

Keep your head up, and go for what you want. The only thing in your way is you!

browsed the forums and I must say. How did you become a system admin so fast?

brad- · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

From browsing these forums, it appears that I would be competing against a lot of relatively intelligent people as well making it very difficult to get a position in this field.

Its not what you know, its who you know.

Many of the people here are probably in the top 20% of their company or job anyway, so you gotta think...for every 1 dynamik, there are probably 80 joe schmoes. My math may be off, but you get the idea.

brad- · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

It becomes easier to learn new material over time?

Patterns. You'll recognize patterns...so even 'new' things arent entirely new.

cooldudemanus · May 2010

brad- wrote: »

Its not what you know, its who you know.

Many of the people here are probably in the top 20% of their company or job anyway, so you gotta think...for every 1 dynamik, there are probably 80 joe schmoes. My math may be off, but you get the idea.

Im just looking to work with computers and make decent money.........

Not trying to support a family or anything. I am 21 and no girlfriend.....dont see how that will change(decent looking built guy with no girlfriend)

dynamik · May 2010

I wish I could rep you more Turgon, but I apparently need to spread the love a bit more. That was a fantastic post.

I'm in agreement with others who say you're selling yourself short. Do you have any more recent/relevant examples of why you think you will struggle?

cooldudemanus wrote: »

..and no girlfriend.....dont see how that will change...

That, along with your previous posts makes it sound like you lack confidence, not intellect.

Edit (just saw I got called-out):

brad- wrote: »

for every 1 dynamik, there are probably 80 joe schmoes. My math may be off, but you get the idea.

Heh, I've also been working on an easy psychology BA for over a decade, and my GPA is trash. I think that goes to show you can suck pretty bad at something (formal education in general for me, math when you were 12 for you), and still do alright in an IT career.

I don't have a girlfriend either. Unless you count Paul Boz. Which I do.

veritas_libertas · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

(decent looking built guy with no girlfriend)

Confidence issues???? LOL

I still struggle with math.
I never was on the deans list in college; never on the honor roll in high school.

So do I, math is not at all my friend. Don't let this get you down, unless you are a programmer math is not going to get that complicated within IT.

subl1m1nal · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

is the degree harder than most of the certs? I am sure there a few certs more challenging than the degree...but ya

In my opinion, anybody can muddle their way through college. Certification is designed to make you fail, so I think certification is harder.

cooldudemanus · May 2010

subl1m1nal wrote: »

In my opinion, anybody can muddle their way through college. Certification is designed to make you fail, so I think certification is harder.

Makes sense

Edit: what qualities do good IT people usually lack?

subl1m1nal · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

Im just looking to work with computers and make decent money.........

Not trying to support a family or anything. I am 21 and no girlfriend.....dont see how that will change(decent looking built guy with no girlfriend)

Land a good IT gig and the gf thing may change. 3 things women are attracted to: Looks, Money, and Power. Keep in mind, she ain't nothing but a gold digger. LOL, j/p.

earweed · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

Makes sense

Edit: what qualities do good IT people usually lack?

By watching IT Crowd you could probably say good social skills, lol. Actually those are some of the most important in getting ahead.

subl1m1nal · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

Makes sense

Edit: what qualities do good IT people usually lack?

Good IT people have it all! A good IT person is well rounded and a jack-of-all-trades type of guy/gal. The go-to person for just about anything.

I think a better question is what do poor IT people usually lack? My answer: people skills. Whether you're consulting or working for 1 company, you support a customer of some kind. In my experiences, the IT guys that sit on the computer and fix things remotely don't get promoted. Good IT people physically get off their ass, go however far away it is, talk to the person with a problem, and fix it promptly.

vCole · May 2010

subl1m1nal wrote: »

Good IT people have it all! A good IT person is well rounded and a jack-of-all-trades type of guy/gal. The go-to person for just about anything.

I think a better question is what do poor IT people usually lack? My answer: people skills. Whether you're consulting or working for 1 company, you support a customer of some kind. In my experiences, the IT guys that sit on the computer and fix things remotely don't get promoted. Good IT people physically get off their ass, go however far away it is, talk to the person with a problem, and fix it promptly.

Agree with this 100%.

getitngo · May 2010

Help desk IT @ a call center is not hard at all. Most of these help desk call centers have trouble shooting scripts + you have access to Google. So if a customer were to call in with a problem that isn't in the script you can just google it.
These jobs pay any where from 13-18 an hour based on previous experience, going rate in your area amongst other things. Getting 45K w/o some type of IT background is still going to be hard to come by.

earweed · May 2010

I think you're being way too hard on yourself. Aspergers is more behavioral than intellect (as I understand it) so your poor performance in school was more to do with disinterest (probably) than lack of intellect.
If you honestly have a love of things technical then,I hate to say this, you're still gonna have to start at the bottom. If you work hard to get more knowledge and show some drive you should be able to achieve your goals.

NetworkingStudent · May 2010

cooldudemanus wrote: »

Allow me explain my background.

- I couldn't comprehend material at 12
-I struggled with basic math at age 12
-I love learning about computers

So, overall I am a stupid person. I also have aspergers(not a good combo).I have Aspergers friends who have atempted degrees such as Computer Science and failed.

I am interested in IT as I enjoy learning about technology and how it works. However, I don't feel I would be able to keep up with all the rapid updates within the field. However, it just seems what you guys do is incredibly cool. I played around with hmtl and javascript(joke languages). Didn't have too much trouble and I had fun

From browsing these forums, it appears that I would be competing against a lot of relatively intelligent people as well making it very difficult to get a position in this field.

I struggle with math every day, but I have often heard that it is not heavily required in all parts of IT. To the best of my knowledge it is mostly used in programming. I struggle with Algerbra……..When I had to take math required math classes for my degree, I turned to my girlfriend and family members for support. The first time I took college Algebra One I failed, but I took it again, and promised myself I would pass. Before that I took one basic math class at one college, and then I went to my current college , and took the acuplacer test( placement test), and I had to take 2 basic math classes. It feels pretty bad when you have people in your class saying”this is easy”, or “I learned this in highschool”… So this was a small deterrent. However, when you have family members and friends supporting you it feels like you can’t fail!!
On the other hand I can get A”s and B”S in most of my General Ed classes, and I get A’s in almost all of my IT classes. ( while I will sit with others that struggle with these IT classes)
So basically I have taken 4 math classes, and I need to take one more to obtain my degree.
M y point: Never give up and never let anyone tell you what you can or can’t do.
I would obtain a degree, but take a few classes to see if you like it first, that’s my advice. Most colleges have student services that would be more than willing to help you succeed.
Also, I recommend getting a good support group of family or friends. A teacher once told me to tell everyone that I was going to college, I did “It’s pretty amazing people will ask how college is going, when will I be done, the classes you are taking ect ect.
I direct you to this link….
Famous People with Aspergers.Aspergers Resources
Temple Grandin, Ph.D., is the most accomplished and well-known adult with autism in the world. Now her fascinating life, with all its challenges and successes has been brought to the screen. ---This woman has autism and has a PHD
Dr. Temple Grandin's Official Autism Website
If they can be successful , then you can too!!

Good luck

Devilsbane · May 2010

subl1m1nal wrote: »

Good IT people physically get off their ass, go however far away it is, talk to the person with a problem, and fix it promptly.

Not true, if a user called in and said I don't have internet. A good IT person would be able to use their communication skills to fix the problem from their desk. A bad IT person would need to come to the users desk to plug the network cable back in.

Plus, in todays world it is often impossible to travel to the users desk. Their desk could be located across the country, or even on the other side of the world.

DevilWAH · May 2010

a little story. (sorry comming from a nokia n900 so bare with me) if you take my english skills and working memory, I come in the bottom 3% of people. at school and collage (dyslexic and spelling age of an 11 year old) I was seen as slow and stupid. no one saw the resoning skill i have that are in the top 2% of the population. they just assumed i was thick. I had, and still have poor people skills, i dont have to work so hard learning IT stuff. thats simple compared to interacting with other people. I look at networking these days and it makes sence, i am sure there a lot of people on this board who see english like i see IT, like people understand the rules that goven languages and find it common sence, thats how i see IT. if you enjoy IT, IT intrests you and can work hard, then you will be fine. you want a career, thats 40+ years of your life. Do some thing you enjoy! If you can find your way to this forum, and write a intiligent post as you did. then your do just fine in this field.

kevozz · May 2010

My neighbor is autistic, had a brain tumor, and still finished his Doctorate degree.

I know many people who do not work in the same field as their degree. I know a high level DBA who had a BS degree in Textiles. Go figure.

In high school I was a solid C student lol. Finally completed college in my late 20's and graduated cum laude. I'm not the greatest in math, but i worked extra hard on those classes (such as discrete math, business calculus and statistics), and made an A or B in each. I can't diagram a sentence or pick out a prepositional phrase, but i do have my strong points. Pick your passion and go for it.

Maybe you need to read something twice, or five times to understand it. But i would bet you have certain abilities where you excel and others do not.

cooldudemanus wrote: »

I read on the boards that "Computer Information Sytems" and Management Information Systems....aren't very good in the IT world.

I would have to disagree as they teach you how to manage a network in a business and FINE tune that network to the business' needs.

Are you going to DESIGN a network like the Computer Science major? No. However, guess what? Someone has to MANAGE the network and make sure it has enough security even AFTER it's up and running. I sure as heck think a knowledge of business will be good enough to tweak a network suitable to a business.

I have a BS in CS, CIS option. I wouldn't say CIS is useless in IT, far from it. Just a different area of expertise. My BS is from a traditional college. With Devry, ITT Tech and others, class structure will probably vary.
From my experience:
CS:
More programming classes and higher math classes.
No networking unless chosen as a minor.
Common to get a 2nd degree in mathematics.
CIS:
Mid range programming and math classes, and focus on database design and implementation.
Several business and accounting classes
No networking unless chosen as a minor.
Minor varied between business administration and networking.
MIS:
Management/business administration degree with a focus on technology.

***OK, just checked out Devry and ITT Tech, and their courses are quite different.

cooldudemanus wrote: »

Very motivating post. Trust me my work ethic is legendary....I really doubt you will find anyone who can work as hard as me.

started off as 120 pound guy in high school...bulled a lot was in special ed

lifted weights and I now wiegh 180 pounds....it took 8 years but i finally got muscles. Considering going back and confronting that bully.:) Whenever I see some douche bag on the light rail picking on some teenage kid(I drive my car to the light rail at work), I go up to his ass and confront him.

Anyway, my point is that I can work really really really hard....I have a good additude too.

Your work ethic and attitude will get you far.

Excellent post Turgon.

cooldudemanus · May 2010

DevilWAH wrote: »

a little story. (sorry comming from a nokia n900 so bare with me) if you take my english skills and working memory, I come in the bottom 3% of people. at school and collage (dyslexic and spelling age of an 11 year old) I was seen as slow and stupid. no one saw the resoning skill i have that are in the top 2% of the population. they just assumed i was thick. I had, and still have poor people skills, i dont have to work so hard learning IT stuff. thats simple compared to interacting with other people. I look at networking these days and it makes sence, i am sure there a lot of people on this board who see english like i see IT, like people understand the rules that goven languages and find it common sence, thats how i see IT. if you enjoy IT, IT intrests you and can work hard, then you will be fine. you want a career, thats 40+ years of your life. Do some thing you enjoy! If you can find your way to this forum, and write a intiligent post as you did. then your do just fine in this field.

good stories here!-

cooldudemanus · May 2010

kevozz wrote: »

My neighbor is autistic, had a brain tumor, and still finished his Doctorate degree.

I know many people who do not work in the same field as their degree. I know a high level DBA who had a BS degree in Textiles. Go figure.

In high school I was a solid C student lol. Finally completed college in my late 20's and graduated cum laude. I'm not the greatest in math, but i worked extra hard on those classes (such as discrete math, business calculus and statistics), and made an A or B in each. I can't diagram a sentence or pick out a prepositional phrase, but i do have my strong points. Pick your passion and go for it.

Maybe you need to read something twice, or five times to understand it. But i would bet you have certain abilities where you excel and others do not.

I have a BS in CS, CIS option. I wouldn't say CIS is useless in IT, far from it. Just a different area of expertise. My BS is from a traditional college. With Devry, ITT Tech and others, class structure will probably vary.
From my experience:
CS:
More programming classes and higher math classes.
No networking unless chosen as a minor.
Common to get a 2nd degree in mathematics.
CIS:
Mid range programming and math classes, and focus on database design and implementation.
Several business and accounting classes
No networking unless chosen as a minor.
Minor varied between business administration and networking.
MIS:
Management/business administration degree with a focus on technology.

***OK, just checked out Devry and ITT Tech, and their courses are quite different.

Your work ethic and attitude will get you far.

Excellent post Turgon.

Not really into schools like ITT tech....nothing wrong with it

was looking at more accredited programs

MSNinja · May 2010

Manus, its never to late to begin studying something you like. Some of us realize late in life what it is you want to with our lives and thats ok. Look at me, I have a BS in Molecular Biology, just because i was fascinated with that stuff in college. Then I changed to IT cause that is what I wanted to do.
Aspergers should be considered a gift, a mild form of autism, many of the most brilliant people people of the world had asperger, or at least asperger symptoms. It should make it easy to really concentrate on what you like to do.

And it sounds more like someone has been telling you that your stupid your whole life, believe me you are not stupid, just make small steps,and youll gain your confidence back. You got into shape, you can as easily get into a better mental/intelligent shape. I hated math because I sucked at it but lately I have caught myself reading calculus between cert reading... and I realized my hate was unjust, its quite fun

Just try reading about IT stuff and if it intrigues you you should go for it, you have nothing to lose.

Good luck!

BigTex71 · May 2010

You need to build your confidence. You come across as a pretty intelligent dude from your posts. You are definitely selling yourself short.

cooldudemanus · May 2010

Don't know if there is really much more you all can tell me at this point.

Thanks for encouraging responses

hex_omega · May 2010

The human mind is incredibly complex. You may think you're stupid, but you'd be surprised.

At 19 I was given a comprehensive IQ test by a Psychologist At the end, I was told I have an IQ of 124, which is well above the average IQ and 1 less than the average IQ for a Doctor(or so I was told). He told me I had an incredible memory-unlike any he had ever seen. But I was surprised when he told me that I also have a minor learning disability. And that I have trouble with "common sense".

And it makes sense to me. I've always had a short attention span. I find it difficult to pick up a book and read for an hour straight, even for IT related stuff or anything I may be interested in. At work, I sometimes do dumb things that should be obvious at first, but of course I tend to miss it because I'm zoning out or whatever. And I zone out A LOT. Depression will eat away at your brain as well. I had that for the majority of my teenage years. It's important to address that because it will do more than just make you incessantly feel like crap.

Everyone has their weaknesses.

Stuppored · May 2010

Turgon wrote: »

You may be very patient and cool underpressure. You may have a great work ethic (Trust me you can offset a lot with that in this game there are many prima donnas out there)

Someone called me a prima donna today, I take offense to that!

dynamik · May 2010

hex_omega wrote: »

And that I have trouble with "common sense".

Are you female?

I kid, I kid...

motogpman · May 2010

Looks like a lot of good advice and stories from TE members. I'll add my own little "encouragement" and I am sure you will do just fine in whatever decision you make.

I have known highly educated people who, for the love of God, can't write or communicate as well as you and they are making insane amounts of money! They don't have anything to blame other than being complete idiots, so don't let your condition hold you back. At the beginning of the post, there was a few "rib rubbing" remarks, but you didn't even take offense or blast back. That tells me you have good temperment.

If you do start college, mix it up. Take some general classes with some IT/Programming mixed in to get a feel for the material. You don't have to stick with only one IT subject.

Most IT people I have ever worked around are typcially like this:

1- Very adept, technically, but have little to no interpersonal skills. Can be self taught over the years, or traditionally trained/schooled, but feel that doing so means everyone else is below them. Won't share knowledge... Often makes mistakes by overlooking the "obvious." Does poorly in a typical work environment around peers or upper management. If it was up to them, they would be left in a server room working on things and not be bothered by anyone. These types get very offended when dealing with the below type.

2-IT social butterflies. Not all "IT" people are weird or strange. May not be the most technically adept in every IT subject known to man, but can UNDERSTAND and COMMUNICATE with their user base, management, or customers. Usually has good troubleshooting skills. Personal skills (soft skills) can get a person promoted or raises just upon that reason (which drives the above type insane!). These types can usually fit into the jack-of-all trades category. If they don't know something, they aren't afraid to say so, but can find the answer and in a timely fashion.

Dealing with people is half the battle IMO. Which above types do you see yourself falling into? It may help you figure out what specific side of IT you want to get into. Make sure your future employer knows the situation, that way if you make some mistakes they don't over react. Seems like you are open about yourself.

If you like to fix pc's, and helping people, you can start out as a help desk or small repair shop. I would suggest starting with A+ and Network+. If programming is your thing, go that route. Analysts have to interact with upper management and business units, so beware if you don't like business related material/concepts. Maybe you can build web pages and/or web hosting. What about IT security?

Set realistic goals for yourself. Think of it this way, if you don't have the outside pressures of a family, job, bills, kids......(not that that is a bad thing), then use it to your advantage to get your goals met. Then when those things come into your life, and they will my friend, you can focus on them and not miss out on anything.

I am sure you will do good and again, stop selling yourself short. Everyone has problems, just most people can't or won't admit them. Self confidence and self awareness is everything. Besides....chicks love that, as long as it isn't in a arrogant manner. Keep us posted!

earweed · May 2010

dynamik wrote: »

Are you female?

I kid, I kid...

Had to grab a quote..so you can't edit before the women descend upon you..lol

cooldudemanus · May 2010

motogpman wrote: »

Looks like a lot of good advice and stories from TE members. I'll add my own little "encouragement" and I am sure you will do just fine in whatever decision you make.

I have known highly educated people who, for the love of God, can't write or communicate as well as you and they are making insane amounts of money! They don't have anything to blame other than being complete idiots, so don't let your condition hold you back. At the beginning of the post, there was a few "rib rubbing" remarks, but you didn't even take offense or blast back. That tells me you have good temperment.

If you do start college, mix it up. Take some general classes with some IT/Programming mixed in to get a feel for the material. You don't have to stick with only one IT subject.

Most IT people I have ever worked around are typcially like this:

1- Very adept, technically, but have little to no interpersonal skills. Can be self taught over the years, or traditionally trained/schooled, but feel that doing so means everyone else is below them. Won't share knowledge... Often makes mistakes by overlooking the "obvious." Does poorly in a typical work environment around peers or upper management. If it was up to them, they would be left in a server room working on things and not be bothered by anyone. These types get very offended when dealing with the below type.

2-IT social butterflies. Not all "IT" people are weird or strange. May not be the most technically adept in every IT subject known to man, but can UNDERSTAND and COMMUNICATE with their user base, management, or customers. Usually has good troubleshooting skills. Personal skills (soft skills) can get a person promoted or raises just upon that reason (which drives the above type insane!). These types can usually fit into the jack-of-all trades category. If they don't know something, they aren't afraid to say so, but can find the answer and in a timely fashion.

Dealing with people is half the battle IMO. Which above types do you see yourself falling into? It may help you figure out what specific side of IT you want to get into. Make sure your future employer knows the situation, that way if you make some mistakes they don't over react. Seems like you are open about yourself.

If you like to fix pc's, and helping people, you can start out as a help desk or small repair shop. I would suggest starting with A+ and Network+. If programming is your thing, go that route. Analysts have to interact with upper management and business units, so beware if you don't like business related material/concepts. Maybe you can build web pages and/or web hosting. What about IT security?

Set realistic goals for yourself. Think of it this way, if you don't have the outside pressures of a family, job, bills, kids......(not that that is a bad thing), then use it to your advantage to get your goals met. Then when those things come into your life, and they will my friend, you can focus on them and not miss out on anything.

I am sure you will do good and again, stop selling yourself short. Everyone has problems, just most people can't or won't admit them. Self confidence and self awareness is everything. Besides....chicks love that, as long as it isn't in a arrogant manner. Keep us posted!

I would defiantly be number 2. I am VERY good at commicating IT concepts. I was able to explain to a radiology tech(I work at a hospital what a proxy was).

-"think of it like a Halloween mask that provides a disguise for a person. A proxy does exactly that. Its like a halloween mask for your web adress.

He got it well

brad- · May 2010

dynamik wrote: »

Heh, I've also been working on an easy psychology BA for over a decade, and my GPA is trash. I think that goes to show you can suck pretty bad at something (formal education in general for me, math when you were 12 for you), and still do alright in an IT career.

Having a BA or a good GPA is not a good indicator of intelligence. It can be, but not necessarily.

How hard is it for people with sub-par intellects to get jobs in this field.

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