Lucky IT vs unlucky ones

The IT · July 2015

I edit this post to be more clear, the thread is about:

Does luck open doors or IQ?

1- An IT working at Google or Apple is it because the IQ or luck and referral?

2- An IT working in small environment is considered lower because they don't have access to same technologies as big ones.

3- Why some IT when they get chance or luck they still not helping their follow IT that need chance?

4- How many IT lost chance because someone did not even bother to give them a call and test their skills

In Silicon Valley your resume is worthless if it doesn't include Chef, Puppet, AWS, Linux....... Also must be real experience and not labs or studying . Same people that judge you few years back are asking for chance.
Devops is replacing Sys Admin but how to become Devops if the Admin not exposed to the technologies.

I get the an interview call: the Sys admin that did the interview asked me all this tricky questions, he went from Big Data to Openstack to Devops just to prove am not a good fit. This Sys admin according to his Linkedin 2 years ago was selling computers at a retailer, this Sys admin forgot that someone gave him a chance, believed and trained him so why he gave me hard time?
My fellow IT please be humble, you may be lucky to get job that gives you experience but that doesn't prove that YOU ARE SMARTER than people who lack that experience. Give chance to people who are willing to learn, and never forget that you may be good in a field but you are not good in all fields.

pinkydapimp · July 2015

It is great to give folks a chance. However, i think many would argue that while folks can be lucky or unlucky, many times you control your fate. And if you work hard enough, have a strong resume, certs, education, experience you can get the jobs that you want. I think luck plays a role, but a very small one.

Keep at it, and continue to better yourself, you will get that call. And dont forget those soft skills because once you get that call you need to be able to convince them to give you that chance.

Good luck!

olaHalo · July 2015

Improve your resume to get more calls (pad it with certs, degrees, experience)
Improve your interview skills to increase your chances at "someone giving you chance" (plenty of interview vids on youtube)

The IT · July 2015

pinkydapimp wrote: »

It is great to give folks a chance. However, i think many would argue that while folks can be lucky or unlucky, many times you control your fate. And if you work hard enough, have a strong resume, certs, education, experience you can get the jobs that you want. I think luck plays a role, but a very small one.

How you can control your fate if you did not get the chance? How you get a strong resume? your job create the resume.

pinkydapimp · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

How you can control your fate if you did not get the chance? How you get a strong resume? your job create the resume.

You can have a great resume without alot of experience. it is all in how you present yourself. You can get any job that you are brought in to interview for, again, its all in how you present yourself.

I see people on this forum every day working really hard to improve themselves. And they have success. So maybe you dont have a lot of experience, get that experience on your own. Not getting calls? Fix up the resume. Not doing well in interviews, go to toastmasters and work on your soft skills, research interview techniques and practice with friends.

srabiee · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

How you can control your fate if you did not get the chance? How you get a strong resume? your job create the resume.

1) Higher Education
2) Certifications and Self-Study
3) Be willing to relocate to where the jobs are
4) Self-determination

As far as "luck" in IT goes, it plays a role in the following:

a) Your IQ, in which genetics is a factor
b) The city/state/country in which you were born (moving is difficult but may be necessary)

Having said that, let me ask you this. What is your educational background, and how many years of professional IT work experience do you have?

I would also recommend that you post your resume in PDF format for critique and feedback.

UnixGuy · July 2015

@The IT:

I agree with you, some IT folks need a dose of reality.

I recommend you try and find a job with a service provider or MSP or any busy environment where you might get paid less but work a lot harder, stick with it for 2 yrs and move on (i.e. make your own luck)

pinkydapimp · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

1- Higher education: Best IT I met and I worked with have no degree.
2- Certification: I have RHCE and get bootcamp VCP and AWS (all I need is to sit for the exam) also tons of CC credits.
3- I am in the Silicon Valley
4- Do you think after 15 years IT experience I still lack that?
My resume was edited by 2 HR workers which make it almost perfect.
My resume lack managing thousands of servers, Puppet, AWS ...., I know the technology and used in labs but not in production environment which make difference.

Question of luck: you think that someone working for Google or Apple are better than you or they get lucky?
When you compare an IT working in a school or small non profit to an IT working in big firm: you use luck or IQ?

1. Yes people succeed with out a degree. But maybe they have skills you lack? Like communication skills for example.
2. You can have all the certs in the world. if you dont interview well you will not get the job.
3. Not sure why this makes you a good hire.
4. good question.

Post your resume. i will be the judge of how good it is. If your not getting calls i suspect that there are issues with it regardless of how many HR people edited it. Also, a resume is never perfect. It should be a living document that you always try to improve. The same goes for yourself.

Your question baffles me. Honestly, im not concerned with a person working for google. I focus on making myself better. Not comparing myself to others and trying to figure out how they got a good job and i didnt. Whatever they did is working. So figure out a way to make it work for yourself.

srabiee · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

1- Higher education: Best IT I met and I worked with have no degree.
2- Certification: I have RHCE and get bootcamp VCP and AWS (all I need is to sit for the exam) also tons of CC credits.
3- I am in the Silicon Valley
4- Do you think after 15 years IT experience I still lack that?
My resume was edited by 2 HR workers which make it almost perfect.
My resume lack managing thousands of servers, Puppet, AWS ...., I know the technology and used in labs but not in production environment which make difference.

Question of luck: you think that someone working for Google or Apple are better than you or they get lucky?
When you compare an IT working in a school or small non profit to an IT working in big firm: you use luck or IQ?

I'm not going to go back and forth with you, because frankly, your defensiveness and negative attitude. I'm going to say a few more things and then wish you good luck with your career and future endeavors.

I think your self-defeatist attitude is a BIG part of the problem. It sounds like you have excuses for everything and are in defensive mode, but don't want to take a serious assessment of yourself and the options that you may have around you.

With 15 years of experience, you should have NO problem landing a job in a multi-sever environment. But I think you are first going to have to get over yourself and start thinking positively.

guy9 · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

IT is a huge field and it's impossible to know all of it, other than study we get the experience from the jobs. In IT field the experience we get depend of the job tasks an IT working in DC is different than IT working in a school.
There is two types of IT:
1- Lucky ones who get job with multiple technologies access.
2- Unlucky with they get jobs in slow updating environment.
I am a Senior Sys Admin. I worked in an environment of few Win2008 and a single Linux server, for budget reasons there is no major updates in hardware or software that's why I decided to move on. Also I tried to be up to date by studying, create labs and having resume.
I applied for many jobs and get no single call, not even an interview, rejection letters as I don't have "experience" and finally get the call: the Sys admin that did the interview asked me all this tricky questions, he went from Big Data to Openstack to Devops just to prove am not a good fit. This Sys admin according to his Linked 2 years ago was selling computers at a retailer, this Sys admin forgot that someone gave him a chance, believed and trained him so why he gave me hard time?
My fellow IT please be humble, you may be lucky to get job that gives you experience but that doesn't prove that YOU ARE SMARTER than people who lack that experience. Give chance to people who are willing to learn, and never forget that you may be good in a field but you are not good in all fields.

I personally think that obtaining a job depends on these things:

1. Job market in your city/state.
2. Job market in your city/state.
3. Certifications.
4. Resume.
5. Knowing the job description.

If the IT field in your area isn't the best and doesn't have a lot of opportunities, know matter how qualified you are you won't find a position.

Most of the time (in the govt arena) you have to have certain certifications just to be considered. You can have 10 certifications, they really only care about certification A, B, and C. If you don't have those certs or they don't think you can obtain at least one of them in 90 days or less its on to the next resume.

Your resume is your selling point, its how you sell yourself. If you aren't good at selling yourself nobody will find interest in you.

Every Job I applied for ( that I received an interview) I spent/spend at least 30 minutes going over the job description. If they say they have these technologies in the environment and they use these specific tools and this is what they do with them and what the job details...I am going to be ready to answer any and everything question about anything listed in the job description, even if I just googled what this technology or acronym is/does 10 minutes prior to the interview.

In my own opinion. I don't see most system admin positions looking for RHCSA. Granted I don't look for system admin positions but I would assume that A+ isn't solely or the only certification they look for either. No offense, A+ gets more Tier 1 Help Desk/Call center type of job hits. A System Admin. I would want to be a master of all trades. I think A+ doesn't give the individual the qualification to be the "Sys Admin" guy/gal you go to when you need something or something goes wrong on the network.

Addition: College credits mean absolutely nothing. If someone is looking for someone who has a Bachelors or Masters either you have it or you don't. Its no if, ands, or buts about it. If a Bachelors Degree is mandatory, I could care less if you have 15 credit hours left or you graduate in the summer, I need someone right now. Nobody is waiting for anyone to graduate with an IT degree.....everyone has a IT degree. I hate hearing people talk about they put college credits on a resume it irks me reading it on the forum

. Ok I got off topic, I apologize.

Khaos1911 · July 2015

One dead horse that I beat around this site is, aside from certs, degrees, and experience....Have a personality! You can have 72 leap years of experience, but if you can't convey and explain that ish in a meaningful, detailed (yet entertaining) way. You're just interviewee number 3. Just look around a site like this...You can see that in this industry there are plenty of people with certs, degrees, and experience. Set yourself apart, bro.

Params7 · July 2015

Yeah luck plays a big role in IT and kind of career you can have. Also with breaking into networking, or servers or whatever it is that interests you. Certs and degrees are not enough. Know this from experience.

Mow · July 2015

"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

It sounds like you are complacent in your current environment. You may have to take a step backwards in a lower level position to get to be the admin of eleventy billion servers.

I really doubt that anyone thinks that they are smarter than you. Sure, people get some breaks, but many of them make sacrifices to get those breaks. Good luck, I know this world can be frustrating, but keep your head up and be persistent, you can get there!

networker050184 · July 2015

If you're just waiting for someone to give you a chance you're going about it wrong. It's not a companies responsibility to let you learn on their production environment.

It is your job to do everything you can to convince them you can do it responsibly though. If you're failing to do that look at yourself and what you can do better. Don't blame someone else for not giving you a chance. Their job is on the line if you screw it up royally.

thatguy67 · July 2015

UnixGuy wrote: »

@The IT:

I agree with you, some IT folks need a dose of reality.

I recommend you try and find a job with a service provider or MSP or any busy environment where you might get paid less but work a lot harder, stick with it for 2 yrs and move on (i.e. make your own luck)

I am doing this right now. Sometime I hate the work but I realize it's a good experience for me. I feel that luck played some part in getting my job with no experience. I just can't ever forget where I was before this. Being stressed about too much work is much better than being stressed about unemployment IMO.

UnixGuy · July 2015

Luck plays a part in all aspects of life, I acknowledge it and try to make my own luck..within reason.

OP, I understand your frustration, I felt the same when I was asked for Puppet experience and all those newish tools that I haven't got a chance to play with. Just play with it on VMs, and trust me they're really easy to understand once you get some momentum. I got my job(s) when I said in the interview that I'm a fast learner (it's true) and showed a positive attitude and willingness to learn. Experience and maturity go along way which you seem to have both. You're in Silicon Valley isn't this like the place to be?

chmod · July 2015

Keep feeling sorry for your self while other get the good jobs.

While you are crying like a little baby, blaming the lack of luck, in the real world there are others working hard to achieve their goals.

Have you read how irishangel started and how long ago she started? have you seen how much she has achieved so far.
Is not a matter of luck, you have to work hard, become a useful asset to the company(is not a matter of just accumulate experience, how valuable is that experience for the role and salary you are looking for?, can you prove it during an interview?).

Check this guy linkedin profile:

https://cr.linkedin.com/pub/rodolfo-alvarez-cubero/2b/263/518

He started college in 2008 in 2015 he is CCIE and is preparing for his second CCIE and he is currently working for cisco deploying DC solutions in south america, he is just 27.

This guy:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigsadams

Started in sales in 1998 and is now a COO/Director at Akamai.

You either have what i takes or you don't. If you don't you should start looking for a new carreer. In this field to succeed you have to work hard, learn a lot very fast, demonstrate your skills almost daily and at times sacrifice a lot to make it.

F8uad · July 2015

olaHalo wrote: »

Improve your resume to get more calls (pad it with certs, degrees, experience)

True that Interviews & Resume

If you Put yourself in the Recruiters Position , Looking at the resume , try figuring out what would be missing to make it perfect for the Job/Career you wish to go on , If it doesn't help you get that job ,at least it will show you whats missing.

Some of the Jobs Descriptions are really Over-exagerated, And Most of the time they will not find The perfect Employee , dont get discouraged if you find one of them , if its close to what technical background experience ......you hold Give it a chance

You have to Accept A less paying Job if you find it, thats the harsh reality , And lucky you , you are one of the best places to be in

, Many startups , a lot of opportunities .

The IT · July 2015

What happen if Craig Adams started at a non profit and after went to a small IT shop and end up with a Data Center the max that he will achieve is a Senior Sys admin, He was lucky that he worked in a company with lot of opportunities.
I know a "Devops" started fresh out of college in 2013 and made 60k he admit that when he started he doesn't even know what AWS is or deployment, he get all the training at the startup. Now this man gets an offer couple weeks ago for 145k, just two years of experience, is he smart: no just lucky he gets in an environment that gave him chance.

techfiend · July 2015

Luck has something to do with it but rather than focus on other's careers why not focus on your own and figure what you can do to get where you want to be. A large majority of a career depends solely on the individual can't really blame the external entities that have very little control of it.

thatguyftw · July 2015

Yes, luck does play a part in getting a chance to get the job that you want; however, don't let it delude you into thinking that you have no chance of getting a certain position because "it's all about luck." Work hard, learn to sell yourself in interviews, tailor your resume to fit the job description, etc. If you're not willing to learn how to do those, then keep making excuses and feeling sorry for yourself.

chmod · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

What happen if Craig Adams started at a non profit and after went to a small IT shop and end up with a Data Center the max that he will achieve is a Senior Sys admin, He was lucky that he worked in a company with lot of opportunities.
I know a "Devops" started fresh out of college in 2013 and made 60k he admit that when he started he doesn't even know what AWS is or deployment, he get all the training at the startup. Now this man gets an offer couple weeks ago for 145k, just two years of experience, is he smart: no just lucky he gets in an environment that gave him chance.

What stops you from get a job in a company where there are opportunities? Besides this fact, you also have to learn how to take and fabricate opportunities.

Craig and Rodolfo both worked very hard to get where they are is not a matter of luck.

You don't start and operation and an engineering department in Akamai because you are good looking or because you are lucky, you have to deliver results to do so, i know craig and he is incredibly good and works very hard.

Rodolfo is a genius, that guy kas so much knowledge and is so humble and hard working, he studies all day long and worked very hard to get a job at cisco, now he travels all the time, pushing/designing/supporting DC implementation for Cisco. At 27 with the amounts of certs he has and the type of job he has is simply amazing.

You sound too lazy to get out of where you are. Craig and Rodolfo worked very hard and prepared themselves for the jobs they wanted, generetad the opportunities and delivered results. You can see all of them started from the bottom.

If you can't do that, there isn't much to do. Stay where you are and keep suffering.

You don't get the jobs because you are not good enough even if you think you are(maybe you have to change your mindset and stop thinking you have so much experience and knowledge and that is luck what keeps you away of the dreamland).

Essendon · July 2015

Luck is the very moment where preparation meets opportunity. Did you know the Superbowl's won before the season starts? It's won during the hours and hours of practice sessions and training. You might say LeBron James is a very lucky man, God's been good to him - well, yeah God's been good to him, but only because of the countless hours he and anyone else puts in the gym.

Gotta change the attitude dude or you ain't getting anywhere.

UnixGuy · July 2015

This guy Rodolfo sounds amazing. Impressive work ethic..

Jon_Cisco · July 2015

The IT wrote: »

How you can control your fate if you did not get the chance? How you get a strong resume? your job create the resume.

It is common for people to complain that jobs require experience. However it is important to remember that every single employed person started a job with no experience at some point. Opportunities do come up and they are not only created by luck.

With that said, Good Luck!

kiki162 · July 2015

Yeah chmod hit the nail on the head.

You have to be willing to go outside your comfort zone and WORK HARDER to get to where you want to be in life. Most of us here are constantly working on or pursuing something. Whether it be a degree, more certs, classes, or side projects, you have to be doing something to keep going. You have to be willing to start from the bottom and work your way up.

Going for Apple or Google off the bat is a pipe dream. They normally take the top pick right out of those insanely expensive colleges, and those people pretty much live at work. I have a family and want to be able to sleep good at night. It's like wasting your life away in a bad relationship.

BTW, those Sys Admins have started at the bottom, and worked their way up the chain. I would suggest you look at doing the same, or think about finding another position where you can travel...or just move.

joelsfood · July 2015

One makes one's own luck. Study, volunteer, get out there and hoof it to get the experience and opportunities you need. Online sites such as odesk/elance/upwork/freelancer are great spots to gain experience to fill out your resume, even if you have to do it for a lower rate than you might want full time. It's a matter of deciding what is important to you and making it happen.

chmod · July 2015

kiki162 wrote: »

BTW, those Sys Admins have started at the bottom, and worked their way up the chain. I would suggest you look at doing the same, or think about finding another position where you can travel...or just move.

,
Exactly that was my point, just imagine craig back in 1998 working on cold sales. he had to sat on his room and prepare his resume, send it to akamai i guess with HR company or directly to their offices as it was back in 1998. He had to dress up, interview well and accept whatever low salary he was offered as he had no experience, saw the potential of the company, worked hard to deliver the results, was promoted and them became COO to their expansions in many countries as you can see in his resume/linkedin, i met craig when he started the akamai operations in my country as were i work had a side project with them, he is very good and works very hard to make sure the operations are OK and meet the KPIs/profitability and stability(i consider him an example, a great professional i really enjoyed working with him, learned a few things from him).

Rodolfo i met him during the integration of an LDI network in central america, such a young lad but so smart.
He is not a result of luck, he study very hard every single day, he lives labbing up/on his lab during his spare time, back in 2007-2008 he was a normal 18 years old student, got a job, worked very hard to get his certs, knowledge, to deliver the results and started to get better jobs but he had to apply for those jobs, pass the interviews/test and whatever required to get the job, had to study hard to get the college degree, started without experience like any other kid/freshman out of college.

With 27 has a CCIE on SP and is working on his CCIE DC, working as a network engineer for cisco on DC product line i'm pretty sure he will get his CCIE DC before he turns 29/30.

I used those 2 examples to show you need more than luck to get where you want, you have to work hard and wake up/study hard/become better professional, apply for the jobs, pass the tech interviews, get the job, see an opportunity and take it and if you get a chance at a better position you have to keep working hard to deliver the results, either as high level solution engineer, any technology SME, PM, COO or anything you want.

If rodolfo would have stayed on his bed crying because he graduated and did not have experience, he wouldn't be where he is at now.
Or if craig wold have commited suicide because he had a shitty job as a salesman rather than looking for a better chance and when he got it, he worked hard to grow withing the company.

Take those examples, motivate yourself to do the same as others that started from scratch did, rather than complaining about that they have what you think you should have.

IT, is either doing something wrong(mistakes on hi resume, applying for the wrong job, failing to interview well) or is nto good enough but has to acknoledge either one and stop thinking that luck is what is not allowing to grow or succeed.

gespenstern · July 2015

Luck plays a major role. Have you ever played fallout and noticed how boost in luck can affect your character quests and combats? Lol.

First off, it plays a huge role where you are born. One thing is to be born in the US, the other is to be born in Africa. Or, hell, even Latin America. You are ranting here about opportunities but at least you've got your native english, you've got your american education, you are not illegal immigrant from Mexico working for a little more than for food. Or H-1B Indus living with his buddies in a single apartment and having nothing besides work and sleep but it's okay with him because it's worse than that in India.

Yeah, there are folks that are dumber than you but they were lucky to apply successfully to a startup such as Google in its early days that played out well and that's the only difference between you and them and they have millions and you are a poor man who has to work for a living. But there are folks who live much worse than you and will not have your opportunities no matter what they do in their lives, just because they were born in a wrong place.

Who even told you that there is justice in life? There's none, life is unjust and it definitely sucks but there's nothing you can do about it. What you can do is to use existing opportunities to maximum and do what you can to get in. So there's no point in ranting about luck, you can't change it. It is what it is, life sucks, no question, let's proceed to something doable.

What you can do is get certs, get education, get labs, get good resume and apply for jobs and someone eventually will accept you. Apply everywhere and you'll get you job eventually.

networker050184 · July 2015

If you spend half as much time worrying about things you can control rather than what you can't you'd see your own luck increase.

ImThe0ne · July 2015

networker050184 wrote: »

If you spend half as much time worrying about things you can control rather than what you can't you'd see your own luck increase.

Didn't want to be the one to say it...

OP, seems like you are spending way too much time on writhing in your own self pity, while you could be using the time to gain additional certifications.

Also, and I mean this in the absolute nicest way possible, it might not be a terrible idea to work on your English skills as well. If I called you for an interview and you spoke the same way you type, I would have a hard time hiring you as well.

You have to look at interviews as you selling yourself to that company. If you come in, can't answer the tech questions I toss at you, don't carry yourself with confidence, etc. then you are giving me a multitude of reasons NOT to hire you.

And as much as you don't want to hear this, the questions he was asking you "Big Data, DevOps, etc." are all basic IT terms that would be covered in an Intro to IT course. Openstack, maybe not, but I don't recall for sure. What I would do, is start researching all of the questions the interviewers are throwing at you, chances are you are bound to be asked some of the same questions during your job hunt, so give yourself the upper-hand, stop writing in self pity and put in the work so you can have the knowledge to answer the questions and gain knowledge in the process.

Lucky IT vs unlucky ones

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