Lucky IT vs unlucky ones

pinkydapimp

The IT wrote: »

We are closing this topic, I used "we" because 3 people "invented" this topic.

Here is the truth: Last week in a meetup at SF a conversation ended up about how many IT are struggling especially old school admins (Windows ones in particular) are struggling in this everyday changing market, new tools emerging and it's hard to keep up. Just check Indeed or Dice for a Sys Admin in the Bay Area to understand how hard it is to just fulfill half of the requirement.

In this conversation the subject of "luck" vs "skills" become a main topic. Many IT from different companies are there and most of them admit that they are where they are now because of the "push" you may call it referral, being in a company at the right time when technologies changed. There was people making 6 figures and just few years or even months back in jobs that are not IT related. There is people who are dedicated and good too I will never deny that and they get the opportunity with their skills.

We decided to bring this topic to this forum as it's more diversified and we tried to run like a survey "luck" vs "skills". Most of the replies not even close, many replies made it sound that successful people are there with learning, studying and dedication: I tell this people search this forum for people straggling to level up and you will be surprised by the quantity.

Who I am? I manage Openstack and Hadoop clusters, I create and run scripts in a daily basis. It's true that I worked at non profit and my boss provide us training but after the layoff I spend 6 months jobless knocking every door and applying left and right with just few interviews which I made it to level 2 or 3 but get declined for production environment.

I will not lie I am lucky, I met this guy in a meetup, he works for a company that I applied twice into. I told him that I applied and did not even get an email or call so he said he will check with the recruiter. I got interview and passed all tests. The manager told me I have the probation period to prove my self and make no mistake, and here I am.

I believe it's luck that get me in this position (dedication did not get me the interview call) also I am lucky that now I can learn and prove myself as I am in an environment that provide experience and knowledge.

The promise that I gave myself is to help any IT that comes from small a environment because I was there and I know how they feel. Lot of smart sharp Helpdesk are there looking for just an opportunity or chance.

Thats not luck. Thats you taking the time to network with your peers. Everyone should be doing this. Hard work comes in many works, not just on the job. But networking is not luck.

I believe based on this thread, the consensus was that luck isnt a major factor. Thats hard work. You can cite past posts but right now, i think we got an answer on this.

And it is good that you are willing to help others. I think many folks are on here similar to myself because they want to help others do well in IT. Thats great. But don't go assuming you have to get help to succeed in IT, because thats far from the truth.

Also you mentioned old school admins struggling. This is nothing new. People who struggle to keep up with new technologies are eventually going to have issues finding work. Its not that they aren't lucky. Its because they either dont take the time for personal growth to learn new things, dont want to take a risk and take a job that will allow them to learn new things, etc. The other challenge here being so many of those admins have no degree, which can be a detriment late in your career. Yes, i know, many people are successful with out them. But the reality is, for many, not having one can come back to haunt you at some point. We cant wait for some push or change of new technologies out our current jobs. We need to constantly be learning and challenging ourselves. When you don't, that is when you will start to have troubles.

Lastly, IT is changing as techfiend said. Its not just sysadmin roles and helpdesk. Those who cant see past this are also going to have troubles. Learn to adapt, be willing to change, keep learning and network. You will have a great career in any field, including IT.

chmod

I think we have a matter of semantics.

Luck i think is something that you can't control, that only happens to you.

As someone else wrote, like been born in this part of the world and not in afghanistan or sudan. If you was born healthy, with your full body that is luck, some people was born blind or with some disease.

If you get a job and they relocate you to a facility 5 minutes from your house(it happened to me).

Those are things that simply happen, you are lucky because of that.

If you network is not luck, if you pass an interview and convince someone to give you a job based on your skills, that is not just luck. You had to prepare for that, study, meet people and make good relationships to get some support is not luck, you looked for it.

When i was 21/22 yrs old, i was working for HP supporting HP servers and HPUX tbh it was a good job and i learned a lot but it was boring and wasn't making that much money as i was a jr tech(i was young, no degree and only ccna and with very little experience so it was a fair compensation).

One day i was reading the ad board after college classes, i saw a company was looking for cust support reps for email support in a graveyard shift and part time, exactly what i was looking for to make some extra money while i was studying and working for HP. I applied after a few months, never received a call from them, 6 months later and i saw the job posted again, i did not apply again as i thought they did not like my resume/experience for the position.

The day after that i received a call from them(6 months laters), the hr rep asked if i was interested to work for them as the senior net admin. I told her that i had never applied for that, that i applied for the cust rep position but that i was interested(other persons would have said no, would have got scared). I went to the interview thinking that i wasn't going to get the job because i was 22 and had no experience as a Sr Net admin, but i wanted to give it a shot.

The IT manager was sick and tire of the Sr sys Admin and wanted to fire him but needed a backup first. After a 2 hours interview process with many many tech questions, made me use the whiteboard to explain many things that i barely knew back them, i was so scared but i did my best, they told me they were going to call me back in a few days in case i was chosen.

Next day(it was a saturday i still remember) 8 am, hr girl called me to discuss about my salary and to make a formal offer, i used to attend to university on saturdays from 8am to 5pm, she waited for me until 6pm. That day i signed the contract, 100% salary increase.

I think i was lucky they call me for a position that i did not apply for.

But i cannot say i was lucky to get the job.

I still remeber when he asked me complex question about the PIXes they had, i told him i have no experience with cisco security devices but i have been learning about linux/unix since i was 15 i work supporting HPUX and i have a CCNA, i have very solid understanding of ip tables, a little on snort, very good on openswam and squid, so even if i wasn't good/experienced on PIX with the foundation of iptables i could learn any appliance quickly as the foundation is the same, a few vendor specific functions but that the most important thing was to understand security rather than knowing a lot of commands.

I think that response change the course of the interview and that is why he had me there 2 hours.

Even if my best friend would have been there as the manager and would have hired me i don't think could have been called luck. Networking and having good contacts is also part of the things you need to do to survive in the concrete jungle, that will help you your entire life.

ypark

networker050184 wrote: »

If you spend half as much time worrying about things you can control rather than what you can't you'd see your own luck increase.

This is exactly what I want to say. Some get lucky, some don't. So why worry about it? Work on the things that you do have control over.

Good luck.

anoeljr

Sometimes on this forum, some people can take things a little too personal and then they get all in their feelings lol.

networker050184

That's just life in general anoeljr.

mamoreno89

anoeljr wrote: »

Sometimes on this forum, some people can take things a little too personal and then they get all in their feelings lol.

It happens anywhere in this world, even in the job place. However, that person's reacting to negativity goes a long way

NetworkNewb

People and feelings... 2 things this world could use less of

chmod

The IT wrote: »

We are closing this topic, I used "we" because 3 people "invented" this topic.

Here is the truth: Last week in a meetup at SF a conversation ended up about how many IT are struggling especially old school admins (Windows ones in particular) are struggling in this everyday changing market, new tools emerging and it's hard to keep up. Just check Indeed or Dice for a Sys Admin in the Bay Area to understand how hard it is to just fulfill half of the requirement.

In this conversation the subject of "luck" vs "skills" become a main topic. Many IT from different companies are there and most of them admit that they are where they are now because of the "push" you may call it referral, being in a company at the right time when technologies changed. There was people making 6 figures and just few years or even months back in jobs that are not IT related. There is people who are dedicated and good too I will never deny that and they get the opportunity with their skills.

We decided to bring this topic to this forum as it's more diversified and we tried to run like a survey "luck" vs "skills". Most of the replies not even close, many replies made it sound that successful people are there with learning, studying and dedication: I tell this people search this forum for people straggling to level up and you will be surprised by the quantity.

Who I am? I manage Openstack and Hadoop clusters, I create and run scripts in a daily basis. It's true that I worked at non profit and my boss provide us training but after the layoff I spend 6 months jobless knocking every door and applying left and right with just few interviews which I made it to level 2 or 3 but get declined for production environment.

I will not lie I am lucky, I met this guy in a meetup, he works for a company that I applied twice into. I told him that I applied and did not even get an email or call so he said he will check with the recruiter. I got interview and passed all tests. The manager told me I have the probation period to prove my self and make no mistake, and here I am.

I believe it's luck that get me in this position (dedication did not get me the interview call) also I am lucky that now I can learn and prove myself as I am in an environment that provide experience and knowledge.

The promise that I gave myself is to help any IT that comes from small a environment because I was there and I know how they feel. Lot of smart sharp Helpdesk are there looking for just an opportunity or chance.

Impostor syndrome
From Wikipedia:


Impostor syndrome[1] is a psychological phenomenon in which people are unable to internalize their accomplishments. Despite external evidence of their competence, those with the syndrome remain convinced that they are frauds and do not deserve the success they have achieved. Proof of success is dismissed as luck, timing, or as a result of deceiving others into thinking they are more intelligent and competent than they believe themselves to be. Notably, impostor syndrome is particularly common among high-achieving women.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

Found it interesteing, just wanted to share.

SpetsRepair

What to do when you have certifications, experience contracting for numerous help desk positions. Have worked a very long time, but still a lot of companies pass on you even though you could work any job they throw at you? Why is it that hard to get even a tier 1 full time position? I get contract offers all the time, i end up working for a few months on help desk contracts and that's it.

A big part of the IT world is luck and connections.

networker050184

If other people are beating your out for jobs maybe it's time to look at what they are doing better than you rather than just tossing it up to luck.

E Double U

The secret handshake works for me.

Mow

If you're working a lot of contract positions, you should have made a ton of contacts. Maybe finish up that CCNA and start keeping in touch with the people at the contract jobs you held?

NetworkNewb

SpetsRepair wrote: »

What to do when you have certifications, experience contracting for numerous help desk positions. Have worked a very long time, but still a lot of companies pass on you even though you could work any job they throw at you? Why is it that hard to get even a tier 1 full time position? I get contract offers all the time, i end up working for a few months on help desk contracts and that's it.

A big part of the IT world is luck and connections.

Sounds like an interpersonal communication skills issue. Not to sound like a d*ck, but don't use luck as a scapegoat for not being able to do/achieve something. If something isn't happening, find a way to make it happen, scrutinize yourself and find what needs to improve to make it happen. Maybe go to IT group meetings and get those connections?

For all I know it could be just be the location your at, I know where I live there are a ton of helpdesk opportunities...

SpetsRepair

Mow wrote: »

If you're working a lot of contract positions, you should have made a ton of contacts. Maybe finish up that CCNA and start keeping in touch with the people at the contract jobs you held?

I have actually, i stay in contact with coworkers after a contract expired and use as a form of reference. But i have worked on contracts from 2 years ago who i try to use as management references ;however, they wont provide a reference. Although they did call me back a few months later for another contract with them, i was working at the time and couldn't accept their offer.

I am also testing for the icnd2 next week.

Mow

Well, maybe finish up the CCNA, start focusing in a specialization.

NetworkNewb

SpetsRepair wrote: »

I am also testing for the icnd2 next week.

Good luck! I failed that test a couple weeks back...

W Stewart

The IT wrote: »

My former manager allowed us to have any training of choice, gave us access to CBTs and books, changed our schedule so we can study: Am I lucky to have a boss like him or I get that because dedication and determination.

I understand determination, dedication and sacrifice are the keys but also who you know too. The small push is a must because it saves time, the gentleman I spoke about in my intro: he was selling computers, his friend get him job as entry level Helpdesk, in 2010 with the boom of the cloud and Devops tools his company shifted to this tools which made him what he is today. I don't deny that he was dedicated and sharp BUT he was lucky that he has friend that helped him to change career and also lucky as his company made the shift and update in tools. Same person if his company didn't made the shift do you think he will be a senior Devops within 3 years from a Helpdesk?

We all have job experience and we know that troubleshooting and being exposed to the technology is the shortcut of learning.
Any Sys Admin may learn programming or scripting but if they don't use it they lose it.

You act like somebody just handed you your job in life and that's what you're stuck with. I worked at small companies and large companies with no opportunity for growth and you know what I did? I looked for something better. I researched, I planned, I even took pay cuts and I made moves until I got to where I wanted to be after busting my ass working through a series of crappy jobs. And now I get to bust my ass even more to prove my worth to my new company and hopefully get a raise one day but thanks for attributing all of my success to luck instead of the hard work and sacrifice that me and my family put in.