Attempting to reenter the job market after a lengthy illness….extremely discouraged!

guy9

First things first, I said a prayer for you.

Ok, now back to the topic. I know I say a lot of about Northern Virgina/DC but I swear to you if you are in IT with certs/experience/education you'll find a job. I literally have a full time job and a part time every other weekend job..literally. Finding a job here is so easy. People say its expensive here, either they don't make that much money or they are looking for a 600 dollar a month apartment with roaches and crime
You:
Certs and Education= DC/ N.Virginia great place to live
Wife:
Degree in History..You can't count on your hands and feet how many historic buildings, museums etc etc are in this area. Besides for moving to Rome or Egypt if your wife has a degree in History she should be in DC, hands down.

I didn't look at your resume, my apologies I just have a thing about opening files on the Internet no offense From looking at other comments you'll do fine here. I think the problem honestly is you said you stayed in West Virginia, nothing against West Virginia but....well... it is West Virginia, what you complained about is expected truth be told. I know a guy who lives in West Virginia and drives to work everyday. Have you considered it? I would drive 1-1.5hrs to live comfortably, ESPECIALLY if I had a family.

Yea, leave the illness out of it. I didn't look up what exactly the illness is but when you say you have an illness the first thing that comes to the mind of the company or recruiter is he is going to be wanting days off because he is sick and has doctor appointments no way, who is next on the list. They will want someone more reliable (not saying you are not). Honestly, that is the first thing that came to my mind and I know nothing about the illness.

Apply for jobs in DC/N. Virginia make the drive and if you don't find a job making 3x that low number you posted I will buy you dinner at the Cheesecake Factory. Now, if your interview skills are bad I won't be able to hold up to my end of the bargain

DeyCole

Hey man,

Tried to PM you but not sure it went thru. Anyways, I was contacted by a friend yesterday for a Sys Admin job. I'm not a Sys Admin so I didn't pay it any mind.

It's not in Austin, but the pay and location is decent, just for someone looking to get on their feet. Not sure it would work out for you, but hey, it could be worth a try.

Anyways, if interested you can hit me at DeyCole1026@gmail.com. Either way, take care and I hope all works out for you.

techfiend

As someone who's dealt with resigning due to a health issue (cystic) that kept me unemployed for 18 months. The best choice I made was to find those who'll support you far beyond words, in my case it was family. I used to tell companies I was ill but they don't even ask now that I've buried that time lapse on my resume.

You helped immensely with my resume months ago. I'm in sort of the same position you were in as an underpaid, deadend sys admin that everyone leans on and looking for a new position. During screenings or after interviews it always comes back with I lack experience. I've started asking recruiters for a lot of advice more than trying to secure an interview through them, I'm 0 for 100's in that regard. A few things they mentioned that really increased my callbacks is consolidating my certificates and move them to the top as many companies rely on them now, this helped a lot and I'm up to about 30% callback rate and multiple recruiters a day calling. I've also been told by many to move my education to the top once I graduate as companies rely even heavier on degrees. I've attached my most recent resume, maybe it will help you.

Most recruiters approach me about engineer positions that are a bit above my head but I give it my best effort anyways. I haven't found many sys/net admin positions that do fit with less than a year of experience but a few recruiters this week told me to go on enterprise job boards and see what they have. The reason for this is most enterprises only push to fill jobs that need to be filled asap through external job listings and recruiters. These are almost always higher level positions or there's an immediate need for entry level workers. Mid-level is either promoted from within or they wait for the right person to apply. Of the few companies career pages I've looked at, this hasn't been the case but I'll continue to look occasionally.

Starting out with great experience in a small environment might seem great but I'm also finding it hard to move on with it. Best of luck on your endeavors!

srabiee

Thanks for the feedback guys. I sat here for hours last night messing around with my resume. Made some minor edits here and there, changed the title at the top to something a lot more catchy, added a quote from a LinkedIn recommendation to the top, added some color, and added Cisco CallManager and Unity Connection experience to the job description of my previous job.

Here's what I came up with based on user feedback:

srabiee_resume_no_PII.pdf

I would definitely like to get some additional feedback and criticism on this.

Someone mentioned the STAR method and trying to quantify all of my bullet points using numbers (i.e. How much did you decrease client infrastructure costs by? = dollar amount or a percentage). I feel this strategy would benefit me greatly but I wouldn't know how to go about doing this without fabricating numbers. During my previous job I wasn't involved in numbers in this manner (that would have been systems engineering, network engineering, and upper management) so not sure how to approach this.

After landing a new position and adding a third job to the resume, I plan on trimming the certification section back and deleting some of the lower level stuff to keep the resume at 2 pages total. I'll probably delete the MCTS and VCA certs at that time, and (hopefully) be at a point where I can add the VCP-DCV. I'm hoping to complete that one next year. Also working on MCSE Exchange 2013 and Private Cloud.

Regarding the interview process, I've certainly done my homework. Prior to the two Skype interviews that I landed, I performed research on the company, studied the job description and position, prepared questions to ask the interviewer, engaged the interviewer and showed enthusiasm, nailed all of the technical questions, etc. One interview lasted 1.5 hours and the second lasted 2 hours. No joke. I got some very positive feedback from both interviewers, or so I thought, but ultimately they didn't commit. Main problem is, I'm not even getting into the interview process to begin with. 165 applications and only two Skypes. No in-person interview offers.

I just spoke to my brother who lives in the DFW area. He said he has a good friend who's an IT recruiter in the area and asked me to send him my resume. I'm sending him my revised resume now. So I guess I already got a foot in the door in Dallas.

Thanks for the positive comments regarding those who feel that I have helped them in the past. Techexams is a great community of like-minded IT professionals and an invaluable resource. When I first discovered this forum a few years back, I was performing some research on Microsoft MCSA certs and didn't know where to begin. I had never even heard of WGU, but saw people talking about it on these forums. That lead me to research WGU (I thought it was a certification at first) and, fast forward a few years, I am a WGU graduate and almost done with my masters degree. I may have never made the decision to go back to school had I not discovered WGU, and Techexams was the direct cause of that discovery.

@techfiend, how long did it ultimately take you to land a job using your resume, and what area do you live/work in?

JockVSJock

Hey, I got your PM. I'm sure someone will neg my rep, saying I'm negative, however I call it staying real.

Your doing everything that I did. Got a PO Box for Austin and Google phone number as well and applied, applied and applied.

I went thru what you went thru when looking for jobs in Austin. I got a number of phone screens/skype interviews for sys admin jobs, and I either got I was underqualified (not enough software developer skills or experience they were looking for), too old (we want someone straight out of undergrad), or overqualified (I'm never working a phone support job again, it seems most IT businesses target x-military for these jobs, however I won't work these jobs, because there is no way to get promoted or develop a skillset to get to the next level). I'm also done working with head hunters. They are worthless and I've had zero success with then and I don't care anymore. Life is too short.

However, I was contacted by a firm in DC, which placed me in a position in San Antonio. I moved here without knowing a soul and so far it been good, getting better everyday. Sure its not Austin, however I'm enjoying it right now.

Also don't just settle for Austin. I was also getting contacted for positions in DFW and Houston too. And talking to a number of folks who have lived in Texas the majority of their lives, the economy is very strong here and both in Austin and San Antonio there are community college that do advance cert training in VMWare/CISSP.

However the tech scene is strong in Austin. Lots of folks turning up for the tech meetups and a ton of startups and lots of folks moving here to be a part of it.

If you have more specific questions you can either PM me or post here and I will try to answer.

Let us know what you end result is. Stay positive and don't let anyone sell you short on your skills and knowledge.

srabiee

Jock, thanks a lot for stopping by and sharing your experiences with the Austin job hunt. I began to suspect that the job market there just isn't conducive to sysadmin or systems engineering positions, and I think you've really confirmed what I'm feeling about the whole thing. Perhaps it's a software developers paradise, but I don't have 4 months to waste sitting by the phone. I also haven't had any luck with recruiters up to this point (they call enthusiastically with a position, I tell them I'm interested, and then they never follow up with me), but I haven't written them off completely as of yet.

How long did you spend actively searching in the Austin area before you ultimately gave up or moved on?

I'm really glad to hear that you were able to land a position in San Antonio and that everything worked out in the long run. I mentioned before that I read that non-Spanish speaking Americans might have a difficult time finding work there because of the significant Mexican population. Have you noticed or experienced anything like that over there?

I will try to stay positive and will definitely keep everyone posted. I am re-shifting my focus to DFW, so once again I am hopeful. If that doesn't pan out, then Denver or elsewhere.

paul78

srabiee wrote: »

Here's what I came up with based on user feedback:

I like the resume a lot. I read your resume from the perspective of what I would do if it came across my desk. When I read resumes, I generally a skimmer and I usually focus on just the summary. Your summary definitely caught my eye. What really made me read the rest of the resume was the quote. That's a good idea.

Good luck in your job search.

techfiend

I haven't moved on from my first full time IT position. I've had it out there for about 3 months but I'm not desperate and if I don't think it's a challenge I don't pursue it. Otherwise I probably could have moved on to better money on an enterprise help desk. My callbacks had a large uptick after I changed and moved my cert section.

I've been told you have <15 seconds to impress HR and they pay most attention to the top third of the resume. In that time they want things that qualify you for the position to stick out. If they do, they'll take time to read the rest. In IT certs are a great way to make this first impression as opposed to skills section in most other professions. If you look at your resume, what are you most proud of? As a stranger I'd say your MCSE with your BSIT and pursuing a masters, let HR see these! IME most places don't care if you have a bunch of certs, just that you have the knowledge to perform the job and you fit in with the company.

I'm in Minneapolis and there's tons of IT jobs to go with the snow. I'm really light on microsoft messaging and cisco which I think is my weakest points but hopefully implementing messaging soon, waiting to get it approved. You'd probably be one of the stronger candidates in the positions I'm interviewing for that are paying around $70k in a 100-500 user environment.

As for numbers, they seem like fluff but make a big difference and feel free to exaggerate. If you virtualized 6 servers you saved 80%. I see clients listed a lot in your sys admin position, was it one network you worked on? If so, I'd do away with clients, it comes across as having more responsibility. Clients would be great to use if you worked for an msp or consulted for multiple companies where you can say you setup this clients' network this way and another like this, etc. Another thing I've been asked in a few interviews is what vendors have you interacted with. I plan to put this on my resume next, to show an external responsibility.

I know my resume could still use a lot of work. I'd basically like to express that I'm the one that can handle all IT needs competently, efficiently and under budget. That's most companies service goals in a nutshell. I currently do this in my cover letter and that might be where I should keep it. It's just so many places don't have cover letter sections and I don't think many HR want to open a resume and see a cover letter.

kenrin

I just have to ask, WHY Austin...?

I know i'm still pretty entry level but I have had some great interviews out of state with various companies paying to fly out, hotel, rental car, etc.

Not many mind you, but I did get two solid job offers from out of state which from the way they talked during the interview I was pretty much already hired except for the budget constraints. (one was a gov job before the sequestration bill went through, another was hiring more techs for company that was expanding but decided to go heavily into VMware | cloud and downsize in staff and spend the money on new blade servers)

There was a job board I used to use, it was geared toward relocation jobs... I can't seem to recall the name at the moment but i'm sure someone else can chime in with some hits on the name. It always had the picture of a truck...

Two more things to note:

I don't know how it is in WV, but in the south job titles are meaningless in IT. My title has changed 3 times for the same job. My coworker just got a new Linux based job titled "systems application engineer analyst". What a load a BS... Always check the posting despite the job titles. It really sucks sorting through all those listings but I think your 160ish applications seem mild in comparison to the thousands I have applied to and most others on this forum. I would routinely do anywhere from 5-50 ** A DAY **.

The other thing is, you really need to be more open to relocating anywhere. You could relocate to Denver for a job, do six months there making 70K a year with an apartment then find a job somewhere else in another city making 10k more. My previous manager since he switched from being an electrician to an IT manager has never held a job anywhere for longer than five or a six months. His salary keeps going up, usually about 5k each time. I'm sure his *growth, *aka lying** will slow down eventually but i'm still puzzled that he is almost in the six figures while people who know more are still at 1/4 his salary.

Please do try to pick areas where the market is not saturated. A lot of the "Hot Areas" you see people talking about are really only for very certain "niche" IT careers. Normal people such as my family will tell me about all these companies on the news saying they are bringing IT jobs and growth to xxx area (somewhere near me). I look up the company and find out, yes they are bringing 5000 jobs to the city. But, out of those 5000 IT jobs, 200 are available and the rest are relocation's that are already filled from their headquarters in Beijing. I'm just making up the numbers. I think the last one they asked me to look into was 500 jobs from somewhere in China moving to my city with only 20 jobs open to the local residents, most of those for HVAC techs to take care of their data centers. The others were for really really high level jobs I had no hope of applying to.

JockVSJock

srabiee wrote: »

Perhaps it's a software developers paradise.

Srabiee, IMO and all I have left to add is that software is king and everything is moving to software (SDN and Virtualization) and massive data centers and our corrupt American education system isn't able to prepare folks like myself for this shift, so we have to take it upon ourselves to develop scripting and software development skills to stay in the game.

Mr. Meeseeks

Curious... why did you quit your previous job? Why not take care of FMLA.

srabiee

I mentioned it in one of the previous threads I linked to. My former employer staffed less than 50 employees so they were exempt from FMLA. They gave me an ultimatum after I was initially off from work for two week without pay: either show up to work on Monday morning, be fired, or submit your resignation. I chose to resign.

joemc3

If Texas doesn't seem like something that would interest you, Michigan is booming for it jobs. Considering the size of our state and our population it is hot and heavy here. We are under 10 million people and I see hundreds of open IT jobs across various disciplines. That is all disciplines, 100 jobs and more.

scaredoftests

Though expensive, you should send some resumes to the DC metro area. Alot of jobs here...

Mow

srabiee wrote: »

So now we are tossing around the idea of shifting my focus onto Dallas. We were just in Dallas 3 weeks ago visiting family, and everything was just so huge and intimidating.

This seems like the best course of action. In fact, I would recommend you move there now, stay with your family until you have a job and can get a place, and give Dallas a few months before you decide you don't like it. Once you have a job there, you can search other places you like.

darkerz

Head over to Seattle, WA region. So many IT jobs at such high salaries, if you can do them. It's a strange boom economy that sort of skipped 2008 (in the IT industry, from my observations) due to the Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Disney, Level 3, Comcast, Century Link, T-Mobile, AT&T, etc etc all being within 20 miles of one another.

srabiee

Thanks for the feedback, lots of great replies and ideas. Here's a mini-update:

I decided to shift 100% focus onto the DFW area. I updated my resume and job search site profiles accordingly, and then began applying last night. Already applied to 65 jobs, and only seem to have scratched the surface. This is a huge area, lots of job postings online on Indeed, Dice, etc. (I did get a few nonsensical Indian recruiter telephone calls today, mostly originating from Monster, asking me to move to Maine, Alaska, etc for $12/hr)

Going to apply to as many jobs per day, each day, until I start getting some calls and interviews. Hope to apply to another 50+ this evening. I will keep you guys posted on what sort of response I get.

JamesKurtovich

srabiee wrote: »

I did get a few nonsensical Indian recruiter telephone calls today, mostly originating from Monster, asking me to move to Maine, Alaska, etc for $12/hr

Do you hang up on these guys or is it a polite conversation?

GL!

Shoe Box

srabiee - Never tell another potential employer that you were out for an extended illness. It's none of their business. No employer wants to hire someone who they know going in has an above average chance of using their health insurance benefits and costing them more money. You quit work to focus on school so you could do better work. And that's all they need to know. If you have to go into the hospital for something major on the day after your health benefits kick in at a new job, well that is just an amazing coincidence now, isn't it?

I don't think people should lie on resumes, but I am not above "adjusting a few facts for maximum benefit". For example, if I were to get a call for a one week desktop support temp assignment installing 40 new computers in a company to replace their old machines, and my dates of employment happen to run from March 30 to April 3, then you better believe it'll be listed as "3/2015 - 4/2015" on the resume! It's kinda true. In reality, I wouldn't bother putting such a short assignment on a resume, but you get the idea.

I also have a severe hatred of these damn Indian call centers, using technology to search local jobs and resumes so they can steal money from local employers for themselves! I have no loyalty to any local temp agency, I only care that the paycheck has my name on it, but I still refuse to give it to these Indian bastards who call me for a job that is 200 miles away and ask if I can go to it. Nowadays, I when they call, I say something like "I'm tired of you Indian agencies trying to steal from local employers. Take my number off your list and never call me again".

I'm certainly no resume expert, but from the first job description on your resume:



Delivered cost-effective, scalable, highly available infrastructure solutions to clients by utilizing server and desktop virtualization technologies, including VMware vSphere 5 and VMware Horizon View. Actively managed client IT infrastructure on a daily basis. Maintained Windows Server 2008 R2 physical and virtual servers providing Active Directory services, Exchange 2010, SQL Server 2008 R2, Microsoft Dynamics SL 7.0, and core infrastructure. Supported all workstations, thin and zero clients, point of sale terminals, copiers, and printers.

All I really get out of it is blah blah, BUZZWORD blah blah BUZZWORD blah blah BUZZWORD blah blah... That whole first sentence is almost pure buzzwords! Maybe I'm wrong, but those paragraphs above each bulleted list look too long to me and full of HR words.

srabiee

lol, I never hang up on them, I just give them the same line: "Sorry, I just moved to Texas from West Virginia and I'm not looking to move again." 50% of the Indian recruiter calls are legitimately within the same state & city, the other 50% are fishing expeditions.

Of the "legitimate" calls, about half the them are nonsense ($12/hr, 3 week contracts, etc). A few of them have been good positions with good pay, and I tell them that I'm interested, but I never hear back from them. All in all, they have been a complete waste of time.

Had a funny one today. An Indian recruiter called regarding a "Windows Systems Engineer" position for a well-known company, informs me that he came across my resume on Monster, and asked me if I would be interested in hearing more. I informed him that I had already applied to that particular position on Indeed. He says, "Oh, you already applied for this position? When did you apply?" I informed him I applied on Sunday evening. He said something to the effect of, "okay sorry, if you directly applied with the client then sorry for the trouble, goodbye." <click>

Ok so he calls back 5 minutes later and says, "I made a mistake, you must have applied through my company on Indeed, that's how I had your information." Then starts trying to get my permission for him to represent me for the job application. I ask him to hold on one second, I need to check the job description on Indeed. He actually says "No, please, just trust me, you applied through my recruiting firm." I'm like wtf, and I again ask him to wait. I then navigate over to Indeed, click on the same link that I used to apply to the job on Sunday, and I am then transported to the well-known company's direct careers website. I inform the recruiter of this, and he starts laughing in a way like I thwarted his attempt to con me, and then says "Ok, ok, alright, sorry, goodbye." Freaking predatory Indian recruiters man, trying to pull a fast one.

Had another call today from a recruiter, this time an American woman, spent almost an hour on the phone with her. She was friendly enough, but when we got to discussions regarding targeted salary range for a Systems Engineer position with one of her clients, I informed her I was looking for right around median fair market value in Dallas for similar positions. I told her what that number was based on my research ($75K ~ $85K). She informs me that, although I am qualified for the position, I wouldn't be able to make that amount because I've been out of work for over a year (informed her I was working on my bachelors and masters), and that I would need to take a pay-cut of HALF the fair market value for about 2 years until I can "prove" myself once again. She suggested $35K for a Systems Engineer position with heavy VMware experience, and asked if I was still interested. I basically told her "Look, either I'm qualified for the position or I'm not. If I'm not, then your client wouldn't hire me anyway. If I am, and I fully capable to fulfill the role, then why would I willingly let someone take advantage of me like this?" She disagreed with my outlook on the situation, and decided that I "wouldn't be a good fit." Apparently they don't want someone with self-esteem that can stand up for themselves and don't allow someone to take advantage of them. I had enough of that at my previous job here in WV, and vowed NEVER to let that **** happen again.

Another mini-update: I've applied to about 135 jobs in DFW so far since Sunday night. I received a few phone screenings so far, and I'm hoping they lead to actual interviews. Received calls for both Systems Administrator and Systems Engineer positions. I'm going to spend a few more hours tonight seeking out and applying for more jobs in DFW.

paul78

Hah - that was a good story. I never knew that sort of recruiting approach occurs.

Good luck on those leads that you got. That's a lot of jobs that you applied to.. I'm sure your perseverance will win the day.

techfiend

Recruiters can really be a hassle. I know some are genuinely trying to find the right people for the positions, I don't ever appear to be one, so now I only look at them as advice and interview practice. It's becoming such a competitive recruiting market that I think the majority are just out there collecting data.

Fulcrum45

Srabiee, did you actually make the move? I'm pulling for you man.

On a side note; were I not married I would be strongly tempted to move to Alaska...even for $12/hr I've been there and it's beautiful. I tell my wife we're going to retire in Sitka one day. She thinks I'm joking.

srabiee

I haven't made the move. As soon as someone wants to meet with me in person, I'm going to fly out to Dallas and stay with my family in Arlington while I attend the interview and (hopefully) get a job offer. Once I accept an offer, depending on how soon they need me to start, I'm flying back to WV to load up the moving truck and make the final trip. If they need me to start sooner than two weeks, then I will stay in Dallas and my wife and family in WV will need to do the moving stuff themselves and then meet me in Dallas. Either way, I think we have our bases covered for the most part.

Mooseboost

I do not have any advice to offer, but I wish you the best. You definitely deserve a good opportunity and I know all of us here are pulling for you!

roninkai

Good luck man! Glad to see that your getting a little more response to your new resume. Just get to the interview and you'll be fine I'm sure. Its getting the initial call amongst the 100's of resumes thats the tricky part.

JoJoCal19

srabiee wrote: »

Had another call today from a recruiter, this time an American woman, spent almost an hour on the phone with her. She was friendly enough, but when we got to discussions regarding targeted salary range for a Systems Engineer position with one of her clients, I informed her I was looking for right around median fair market value in Dallas for similar positions. I told her what that number was based on my research ($75K ~ $85K). She informs me that, although I am qualified for the position, I wouldn't be able to make that amount because I've been out of work for over a year (informed her I was working on my bachelors and masters), and that I would need to take a pay-cut of HALF the fair market value for about 2 years until I can "prove" myself once again. She suggested $35K for a Systems Engineer position with heavy VMware experience, and asked if I was still interested. I basically told her "Look, either I'm qualified for the position or I'm not. If I'm not, then your client wouldn't hire me anyway. If I am, and I fully capable to fulfill the role, then why would I willingly let someone take advantage of me like this?" She disagreed with my outlook on the situation, and decided that I "wouldn't be a good fit." Apparently they don't want someone with self-esteem that can stand up for themselves and don't allow someone to take advantage of them. I had enough of that at my previous job here in WV, and vowed NEVER to let that **** happen again.

No, I don't think any actual company is going to require that at all. If it was a contract-to-hire situation I think that recruiter was just trying to take advantage of you and your situation and would probably have put you in at $75k with the company and the recruiting agency would pay you at $35k for the duration of the contract period, and would have pocketed the difference.

ImThe0ne

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

No, I don't think any actual company is going to require that at all. If it was a contract-to-hire situation I think that recruiter was just trying to take advantage of you and your situation and would probably have put you in at $75k with the company and the recruiting agency would pay you at $35k for the duration of the contract period, and would have pocketed the difference.

I was thinking the same thing, those people can shady as crap. Gotta remember those recruiters get serious kick back on every "deal" they close, of course they are going to try and squeeze as much out as possible.

srabiee

dragonsden wrote: »

Good luck man! Glad to see that your getting a little more response to your new resume. Just get to the interview and you'll be fine I'm sure. Its getting the initial call amongst the 100's of resumes thats the tricky part.

Thanks again for your help. I've applied to about 180 jobs in DFW so far, just in the past 3 days. Had a handful of phone screenings, so I'm hoping to start getting some interviews real soon.

The most common negative feedback given: "The fact that you've been out of work for over a year is hurting your chances."
Me: "But during that time I completed a bachelors degree in IT and over half of a masters program in IT."
Them: "The clients are still going to be very leery of hiring someone who has been out of work for so long, and will likely go with other qualified candidates."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Second most common negative feedback: "We are looking for someone with a broader skillset. We need someone with VMware, Hyper-V, SCCM, SCOM, MCSE, CCIE, VCP, VCAP, CISSP, Red Hat, SUSE, .NET Developer, JAVA, Oracle, 20+ years of experience, and can heal the blind. Oh, and the job pays $70K."

kurosaki00

Hoping for a happy ending!
Wish you success.