Polite Answers To Eight Shockingly Rude Salary Questions Recruiters Ask

cyberguypr

Leaving this here for those who do not want to disclose their compensation details yet have no idea how to properly (and politely) fight back.

Excerpt:

The recruiter wants to give the candidate’s current and/or past salary details to the hiring manager, because that information is very useful. Once you know what a job-seeker is earning now, you can hire him or her with a small salary bump, even if your salary budget for the job opening is much bigger. Many if not most employers are used to assigning starting salaries by looking at the candidate’s current compensation level and giving him or her a bump in pay to take the new job.

A person’s past salary is not a good gauge of their worth. People are underpaid and overpaid in every company. If you let some other employer decide what candidates are worth and they in turn let some other employer make that determination and those guys do the same thing, then how stupid are we? We’re all relying on strangers to do our jobs for us!

Full article here.

networker050184

Never understood why people try to hide what they are making. If you have to be deceitful to a company to get a good offer you're probably just screwing yourself by working there in the first place. Can't hide when it comes time for raises or promotions.

LeBroke

Quite a few people are very, very underpaid when they finally decide to look for a job. Especially if they qualify for a much better role.

Quite a few companies think that if someone makes less than 50k, they can offer them a 10k increase to go into a DevOps role and the candidate will jump on it because it's still a salary increase.

636-555-3226

I'm in a good situation at a good company, so I've got some room to maneuver, which some people won't have. That said, I usually tell people that to hire me from my current employer it'll take X dollars, and I also tell them that I expect my employer to match any offer up to Y (usually 10-20% less than X). I freely admit that if the new company will only go up to Y, I'd keep working at my current spot (again, since I have good thing going, which not everybody has). If the recruiter really pushes then I just lie to him about my current salary to help get to that X amount. I never signed anything that said I needed to be honest with him, after all. Has worked out well in the past, but I live in the security realm which in my area means I'm in control of my own destiny and can pretty much do whatever the heck I want to do. Very fortunate, that!

networker050184

LeBroke wrote: »

Quite a few people are very, very underpaid when they finally decide to look for a job. Especially if they qualify for a much better role.

Quite a few companies think that if someone makes less than 50k, they can offer them a 10k increase to go into a DevOps role and the candidate will jump on it because it's still a salary increase.

And you want to work for a company that thinks like that? I can see if you are just unemployed and need something, anything to pay your bills, but besides that you are interviewing the company just as much as they are interviewing you.

YesOffense

What company? pretty much all of them will do what's necessary to save as much counting towards the bottom line. Not sure why anyone would think a business in for profits would be above that. Technical folks can be so eager, willing and naive at times.


But to the OP article, seems pretty combative.

LeBroke

networker050184 wrote: »

And you want to work for a company that thinks like that? I can see if you are just unemployed and need something, anything to pay your bills, but besides that you are interviewing the company just as much as they are interviewing you.

It might be a decent company otherwise, but but many will still go out of their way to screw you on salary negotiations if they think you'll bite.

Danielm7

I had an interview with a recruiter about a month ago, I knew the posted salary ahead of time. It was on or above market rate, which is good. She asked what I was currently making I said, "I'd rather not share that" and moved on. She seemed surprised for a second, then moved on too. I wouldn't want to work for a company that demands tax records and old pay stubs before they can decide if you're worth what you're asking for.

powerfool

To think it is silly to not provide salary information seems naive, to me. I have interviewed countless times in my nearly 20 years of experience. I have provided honest salary information in the past and here are some of the responses that I have received:
- "Oh, great, we can definitely match that." (Really? I came here for a change of scenery at the same salary? Nope.)
- "Well, I think you will be happy with a $5k increase." (They always offered a $5k increase for their candidates; it isn't bad when you are at or below $40k, not so good beyond that)
- "Can you provide documentation to prove that?" (Huh? Talk about trust issues.)

Employers tend to feel that they hold all of the cards. While I am into capitalism, I don't find that mentality to be congruent with capitalism. I have walked away from tons of employers that have made a point of insisting on these details and I am appreciative of it specifically because I don't want to work for that kind of company. I have also found that companies that are like that tend to not only skimp on salary, but they skimp on all sorts of other benefits, too... like no training or education assistance, horribly long vesting schedules for retirement matching contributions, and the like.

My best experiences have been with companies that have asked what it will take to have me join the team. Not only that, on one occasion, I gave them a range and they offered the top-end with any sort of hesitation (now, it made me feel stupid for not asking for more, but they rewarded me with a rather substantial increase at my year-one review).

cyberguypr

networker050184 wrote: »

Never understood why people try to hide what they are making.

Because companies/recruiters play stupid games. Those of us who have been around for a while can easily articulate what we are worth. We can go in front of a potential employer and tell them "we want X amount as compensation because I bring Y value". If they don't see it, fine. Not everyone can do this. Some folks, especially those with reduced experience have no idea how to handle this and therefore could be become victims of the "sorry, we need to know your compensation to proceed" just to be low balled. As LeBroke said, not necessarily bad companies, just companies with bad practices.

Having personally known of several "we can only pay you X % over your current salary" places, I do my part to help others fall into these traps that devalue them as professionals.

networker050184

powerfool wrote: »

My best experiences have been with companies that have asked what it will take to have me join the team. Not only that, on one occasion, I gave them a range and they offered the top-end with any sort of hesitation (now, it made me feel stupid for not asking for more, but they rewarded me with a rather substantial increase at my year-one review).

Exactly! If you have to lie and weasel your way into a good salary... well... I don't know why anyone would even want to do that.

cyberguypr wrote: »

Because companies/recruiters play stupid games.

That makes it easy to find the companies to avoid then. Not play their game with them.

636-555-3226

networker050184 wrote: »

Exactly! If you have to lie and weasel your way into a good salary... well... I don't know why anyone would even want to do that.

That makes it easy to find the companies to avoid then. Not play their game with them.

I don't know if it's lying or weaseling your way into a good salary. To me it's playing the field. Are they going to tell you (at all or even honestly) how much the last guy who had that role made? Probably not. Are they going to tell you the limit to what they're planning on possibly paying to fill that role? Probably not. It's like buying a car - the salesman's going to knowingly lie to you or be evasive about some things, and you're going to knowingly lie to him to be evasive about some things. It's just the way the game works. Not exactly an honorable or maybe even ethical thing to do, but that's just how life is.

networker050184

Most of the companies I've worked for yes have told the range for the position. I won't really go into the whole process without knowing what I want is at least in their range.

gespenstern

networker050184 wrote: »

Never understood why people try to hide what they are making. If you have to be deceitful to a company to get a good offer you're probably just screwing yourself by working there in the first place.

Why then hiring manager refuses to disclose a salary history of your predecessors in majority of cases then?

Here's one of whys for example, before I started making good money in the US I worked in Russia and despite being a top specialist my salary was around $25k/year. Then I went to the US and was given three times more than that right away, which was still low. How do you think, would they give me three times more if they knew I could use my Russian survival skills to live off and feed whole family for 25k/year?

So I never tell my previous salary and it plays well for me. Some employers insist -- with them I insist on not disclosing it unles they disclose predecessor's salary history.

Deathmage

I've found all the recruiters in NYC are EXACTLY like this....

I read a similar article about this a few weeks ago and going into interviews it was very powerful. I literally told a recruiter, why is that important! - a few of them I hanged up on them, they called back and apologized and we moved forward.

I agree most people in IT are underpaid, and to an employer if they give you 10% it's a raise. I'm sorry I don't care, I tell them. I ask them the range of the job and I ask for the high-end.

You can always work down, you can't work up in pay...

Lastly, if a company is lowballing you on salary from the get-go when the COL in the area is higher than what their offering, they know they are cheaping out on you. Companies like that I wouldn't want to work for to start with....it just shows me so many other problems once I'm hired....

gespenstern wrote: »

So I never tell my previous salary and it plays well for me. Some employers insist -- with them I insist on not disclosing it unles they disclose predecessor's salary history.

That's a good one, I like that....

networker050184

gespenstern wrote: »

Why then hiring manager refuses to disclose a salary history of your predecessors in majority of cases then?

I think disclosing someone else's personal salary history is a completely different story than discussing your own. Maybe that's just me. I do fully expect them to disclose the range for the position. If not we aren't even talking. In turn I don't have a problem with disclosing mine. They are either going to give me what I want or not. I'm not looking to work for someone have to play games with to get a decent salary.

bpenn

gespenstern wrote: »

Some employers insist -- with them I insist on not disclosing it unles they disclose predecessor's salary history.

I would be more inclined to include my salary if they gave us the salary range for the predecessor.

gespenstern

@bpenn

If they give me a salary range -- I give them my salary range (that could be based or not on what I was making -- it is more of a range that I'm looking for). If they want verifiable precise salary -- I also want to know verifiable precise predecessor's salary.

@networker050184 -- I understand your point and it is a point of view of a person who's paid well now, has proper skills and networking connections and was always paid well. It doesn't work for people who for some reason are looking for a job being underpaid at their current/previous job and want to be assessed purely based on their skillset.

networker050184

I haven't always been paid well myself either. Just trying to give others the advice I wish I could have given myself when I was unsure about all this as well.

tpatt100

I've noticed a lot of jobs list the salary range in their listings but the jobs I have always gotten didn't seem to advertise the range. I think those jobs didn't because by the time I was discussing salary with the company I was already being offered the job so the salary part was up to me to decided (within reason).


My third IT job was almost a 100 percent increase in pay from the previous job. I asked for it because I knew they needed people and they had a limited number of people to choose from due to the work and clearance required. I was also in a position of control because I had a job I really liked so leaving it and moving cities was inconvenient as heck.


After I started some of us learned that people who were hired after us were paid lower. They found out and were not pleased but some of us asked them why did they accept the offer if they wanted more? A couple of them said that they took the offer because it was significantly more than their previous job....

AverageJoe

To me, refusing to disclose one's salary is fair, but being dishonest about it is another matter entirely.

The IT field relies on the integrity of its professionals, and one of the results of that is being entrusted with things like admin privileges and increased access. Being untrustworthy can lead to loss of those privileges and accesses, which really limits your usefulness to an employer. Why risk that over something you already have control over? You don't have to accept an offer lower than you want.

It's easy to rationalize bad behavior by claiming it's part of "the game," but that doesn't make it right. And no, not everyone does it.

Students who **** on their homework -- or IT workers who use **** to pass certification exams -- probably rationalize their actions similarly. You can rationalize any type of bad behavior, but that doesn't make it good behavior.

Just my 2 cents.

Deathmage

The one thing you need to watch out for is recruiter that ask for blank checks prior to even landing a job. I hung up on them and blocked there numbers.

One recruiter was like, because we need it for direct deposit..... here is my banks routing number and I'll give you my direct deposit number...he was like we need a blank check, I'm like Why? O.o ....

I hanged up on them and ran, not walked, ran....

iBrokeIT

I flat out refuse to provide my salary history. Ask me why? I'll tell you, my previous salary was based off of my previous experience, previous skills at the time and previous job description. This is a different company, new position and my previous salary is irrelevant because this is a new and separate negotiation from what was negotiated previously with someone else.

koz24

This is how I answer as well. Though what's becoming increasingly popular is companies asking for W2s. I'm not sure what I'd honestly do if asked. It would depend on how bad I wanted that job.

networker050184

Deathmage wrote: »

The one thing you need to watch out for is recruiter that ask for blank checks prior to even landing a job. I hung up on them and blocked there numbers.

One recruiter was like, because we need it for direct deposit..... here is my banks routing number and I'll give you my direct deposit number...he was like we need a blank check, I'm like Why? O.o ....

I hanged up on them and ran, not walked, ran....

Pretty sure you were getting scammed!

Legacy User

Deathmage wrote: »

The one thing you need to watch out for is recruiter that ask for blank checks prior to even landing a job. I hung up on them and blocked there numbers.

One recruiter was like, because we need it for direct deposit..... here is my banks routing number and I'll give you my direct deposit number...he was like we need a blank check, I'm like Why? O.o ....

I hanged up on them and ran, not walked, ran....

Wow that just sounds like a scam and a half especially with someone you haven't even worked with. I do know at one place I worked at they wanted a blank check for the same reason but i was already working there. I definitely would not feel comfortable giving that to some recruiters. Ever seen that old movie called "blank check"? lol Exactly

Deathmage

networker050184 wrote: »

Pretty sure you were getting scammed!

with the amount of recruiters that contact me daily, shed one off my back with something like this doesn't bother me...

I like that in NYC I can be picky....

Ever since I turned my Monster and Dice account back on a month ago, it seems I get phone calls and email constantly...yet even though I update my voicemail say not to call between 8 am and 5 pm they still call me...like 4 times a day...

DPG

Deathmage wrote: »

Lastly, if a company is lowballing you on salary from the get-go when the COL in the area is higher than what their offering, they know they are cheaping out on you. Companies like that I wouldn't want to work for to start with....it just shows me so many other problems once I'm hired....

Didn't you just accept a position with a company that initially offered you 50% less than what you eventually negotiated?

As a hiring manager, I will refuse to interview someone that will not provide their salary expectations. I couldn't care less about what they have made in the past

Deathmage

@=DPG


Yup, that's because I walked....

I told them what I wanted and they told me no, so I walked.....10 minutes later they called asking what 'I wanted'....

Wasn't going to play games and get lowball on the amount of work they wanted me to do...

IT people should be paid what their worth, not a industry standard...this is is why people in our industry are paid crap...

Last month alone I turned down 8 jobs until I found this recent one...

E Double U

A wise man once said, "f*** you pay me".

blargoe

networker050184 wrote: »

I think disclosing someone else's personal salary history is a completely different story than discussing your own. Maybe that's just me. I do fully expect them to disclose the range for the position. If not we aren't even talking. In turn I don't have a problem with disclosing mine. They are either going to give me what I want or not. I'm not looking to work for someone have to play games with to get a decent salary.

This. I'm not going to take a conversation very far without having an idea of the salary range for the position. If they can't share that info, I didn't want to work for them anyway.

In my situation, I'm definitely above market rate for my area, and am having a hard time finding a position to even match my current salary. I'm definitely going to be up front about what I'm brining in. If I scare them off, I didn't want to work for them anyway.