Polite Answers To Eight Shockingly Rude Salary Questions Recruiters Ask

Danielm7

DPG wrote: »

As a hiring manager, I will refuse to interview someone that will not provide their salary expectations. I couldn't care less about what they have made in the past

Do you give them a range?

fmitawaps

I just finished a contract assignment making $22 an hour. I applied to a data center and got hired, the recruiting agency asked my previous pay rate and I told them it was $26 an hour. This way if they try to lowball me it will still be a pay raise.

They didn't ask for proof or pay stubs or anything, and even if they had asked, they would not get it, as my pay was all direct deposit and I had no pay stubs. But I wouldn't have made the effort to give them proof of income anyhow, as that is not in my best interest.

TacoRocket

One tip that I learned from the site is to tell them you can't disclose that information. Have them draw out the number first. I have been honest on interviews on my salary and have had bunches of recruiters put me at the same pay. Heck I had one put me in the middle. I tell them it's an NDA but I would be willing to consider positions for X amount.

Learned that lesson once.

LeBroke

DPG wrote: »

As a hiring manager, I will refuse to interview someone that will not provide their salary expectations. I couldn't care less about what they have made in the past

Asking for a target range is fair. Someone who's OK with getting potentially low-balled might name a range he's happy with. Someone who did his homework and knows the market rate for the position and his skills/experience will probably name something in the market range anyway (or slightly higher, with the intent to negotiate to what he actually wants). Someone throwing an absurdly high number is probably either an idiot you don't want working for you, or sucks at negotiating.

The issue is asking a candidate about their previous salary (which in most cases will be lower than the market range for the new position), which is most likely used to try to pay them less than they otherwise deserve (i.e. "we can give you a 10% raise over your last job".. underpaid in previous job, is perfect fit for current job, market rate is a 50% raise).

Deathmage wrote: »

IT people should be paid what their worth, not a industry standard...this is is why people in our industry are paid crap...

By industry standard, do you mean market rate? Because market rate IS determined by market forces. People with rare, in-demand skills (DevOps, high-level security, etc) are worth more for the same experience level (in calendar years) than similar people with very common skills (i.e. senior desktop support guy).

There's 20 entry-level techs with an A+ and no experience applying for entry-level jobs. At least one of whom is a 19 year old living at home that can afford to take a $12/hour wage, so he'll get hired. Another might be a Windows sysadmin with 5 years experience that desperately needs a job to feed his family and there aren't any sysadmin jobs in his area. He'll get hired too. Someone seeking to make a living wage is out of luck.

On the other hand, there's easily 5-10 DevOps openings for every qualified engineer. Companies have to make a decision - do they hire a qualified engineer and pay him whatever he wants, or he walks and finds a different company that will. Or they hire someone meeting the bare minimum pre-requisite knowledge, pay him what they can afford, and hope he learns enough to be useful?

I think a lot of the onus on people being seriously underpaid is on two factors - people themselves, and market in an area. No-one needs a VMware engineer of your level in rural Oklahoma (unless Rackspace decides to build a major DC in the area, but that's another story). And if a guy makes 30k under market but makes no effort to change it (i.e. asking for raises, moving to a new company), it's fair to assume he's happy with it. I may not understand the latter point of view, but there are people who value stability, workplace environment, or familiarity above money. Or he's just chicken to put himself out there, in which case it's still on him.

HailHogwash

If a company has a range, then it is irrelevant what the candidate last pay was.

ArabianKnight

Why has congress not made it illegal for employers to ask for prior salary, just like it is illegal to ask your age and race?

koz24

HailHogwash wrote: »

If a company has a range, then it is irrelevant what the candidate last pay was.

Agreed. This is why you should refuse to disclose your salary if you are making less than their range. In order to do that you need to research the range for the area to know if you're under or not. Otherwise you will absolutely and definitely get a lower offer.

koz24

ArabianKnight wrote: »

Why has congress not made it illegal for employers to ask for prior salary, just like it is illegal to ask your age and race?

I think it's fair for them to ask for a range. I don't think it's fair for them to ask for W2s and tax returns however. That should be illegal, imho.

thomas_

I realize this is about recruiters asking for your salary, but what's the best way to handle it when you're filling out an application online and it's asking for your past salary in a mandatory field? Just enter $0.00?

cyberguypr

That is exactly what I do. I've come across some that won't take zero, so I do $1.

ratbuddy

Don't fill out applications online. Network your way to the hiring manager and send your pain letter (another Liz Ryan concept, see https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stuck-your-job-search-try-pain-letter-liz-ryan ) and resume directly.

dave330i

It's amazing that with all the information available these days that recruiters and candidates are playing these stupid games.

BradleyHU

ratbuddy wrote: »

Don't fill out applications online. Network your way to the hiring manager and send your pain letter (another Liz Ryan concept, see https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stuck-your-job-search-try-pain-letter-liz-ryan ) and resume directly.

way easier said then done...

networker050184

dave330i wrote: »

It's amazing that with all the information available these days that recruiters and candidates are playing these stupid games.

Indeed it does blow my mind.

TechGromit

Deathmage wrote: »

Ever since I turned my Monster and Dice account back on a month ago, it seems I get phone calls and email constantly...yet even though I update my voicemail say not to call between 8 am and 5 pm they still call me...like 4 times a day...

I had a couple of resumes posted online on job sites when I was out of work, even after disabling/deleting the accounts I still get emails from recruiters two years later. After sending unsubscribe requests the number of solicitations has dropped off significantly, but I still occasionally get one.

goatama

TechGromit wrote: »

I had a couple of resumes posted online on job sites when I was out of work, even after disabling/deleting the accounts I still get emails from recruiters two years later. After sending unsubscribe requests the number of solicitations has dropped off significantly, but I still occasionally get one.

I've gotten calls twice from recruiters who somehow had my cell phone number. I asked both of them how they got my number. One guy said "It's on LinkedIn." Yeah, no it's not. Try harder. "Oh, no, I'm sorry, it's in our database. It looks like you filled out an application with us in 2007. I just looked your name up from LinkedIn." Good to know. So you guys NEVER purge, despite your little disclaimer that the application is only "on file" for 12 months?

RoyalRaven

TechGromit wrote: »

I had a couple of resumes posted online on job sites when I was out of work, even after disabling/deleting the accounts I still get emails from recruiters two years later. After sending unsubscribe requests the number of solicitations has dropped off significantly, but I still occasionally get one.

Yes, when you put your resume out there, they get scooped up and stored. I still once-in-a-while have to tell them that my old email won't work....and that's been years. I even was in Florida for a while doing some searching and years later (after I moved on) still got a call or two.

They tail off really quick though when you pull the resume from visibility and unsubscribe to any (legitimate) ones that still come back.

goatama

Back to the OP: can we get a non-Forbes link for that article, or does one exist? I'm not giving my computer VD by turning off my ad blocker so they can serve up some malware while I read their site.

Danielm7

ublock origin user here, site loads fine.

Legacy User

I don't like giving out my salary info as is not relevant to the hiring role because many factors influence salary such as industry, location, etc. I foolishly disclosed it one time and the recruiter did the math of the hourly rate and said ok I can get you $2 more. Which really aggravated me I said would you leave your current role for $2 more? I said sorry it sounds like you are not serious about finding a candidate and thank you for the call and I hang up. He called back and said how much do you want I can get you a lot more. I decided not to do business with the guy because he wanted to play games.

I personally do not like to give a range until I know the company/location. For example in NYC Financial companies or law firms can pay up to 180k while a regular enterprise can pay between 100k-120k that is a substantial difference. It never made sense to me to blindly give a range not knowing about the company and you automatically place a cap on your earning potential. The way I handle the call when the topic of salary comes up and tell them it depends on blah blah. Please forward me the job description and I will call you back with my feedback. Thanks. Thats when I do my research and come up with my numbers.

If at any time a recruiter says sorry I cannot move forward because the employer demands to know your salary information. I just tell them sounds like we can't do business then and I end the call. Sure enough, they keep calling leaving voicemails and emails that they can "work" around it. Yea whatever I don't have any patience for these ridiculous practices.

JoJoCal19

LeBroke wrote: »

Quite a few people are very, very underpaid when they finally decide to look for a job. Especially if they qualify for a much better role.

Quite a few companies think that if someone makes less than 50k, they can offer them a 10k increase to go into a DevOps role and the candidate will jump on it because it's still a salary increase.

Yup. After working for a large bank for 8 years (all of them in IT) I was severely underpaid according to going rate for someone with my experience, degree and certifications, probably in the range of $30-$40k. Of course the next company took advantage of that and even though the raise was 25%, HR wouldn't move forward until I disclosed my salary. All of a sudden the amount that I previously requested and they were ok with since it was well within range, they came in way lower. I decided to take it because I just needed out of the job I was in and to take a step forward. Same situation when I left that job, again still underpaid by a good bit but took a 20% jump a year later. Again my previous salary was used to justify the new one and they came in less than I originally asked for. Stayed there for a year and just recently started a new job, and even though again they did ask for my salary, they gave me a decent bump and I'm finally in the six figures and getting paid at the minimum that I feel I'm worth.

dustervoice

Whenever I'm seeking for a new role and working with a recruitment firm when they ask what salary im on i respond saying "Its completely irrelevant. I demand ie. 90K" if the employer can offer me that then lets proceed with this conversation if not call me when someone is willing to offer me what i'm demanding! @ this stage in my career i don't negotiate salary i demand it. If i ask for $4.00 an hour and get offered $3.99 i refuse.

cyberguypr

@JoJoCal19, do you keep disclosing it for the sole reason that you really need another job?

si20

I've often told a recruiter my current salary and they usually hit back with: "well the employer's range is x to y" and I normally tell them right there and then: "I want y". I've got an interview tomorrow and they have two roles open with two different salaries. The salary overlaps at the top end of the junior role and the bottom end of the senior role, so i've asked for an absolute minimum of bottom end of the senior role. Honestly, recruiters have always tended to try and get me a decent salary. More money for you = more money for a recruiter.

JoJoCal19

cyberguypr wrote: »

@JoJoCal19, do you keep disclosing it for the sole reason that you really need another job?

The first time yes. I just had to do anything to get out of that job and to get some kind of additional income. It ended up being a 25% raise so percentagewise not bad but when you're well underpaid it sucks. The second time was trying to relocate and the job was offering me $15k net to move along with a 20% raise. Even though I was still underpaid, the two successive increases at least brought me to mid $80s, plus relo. This third time, it was with a company I've been wanting to work at for a long time, as well as an awesome role, and a 20% raise that brought me into the six figures. So I was ok with it. I will say that absent the reasons for these last two, no I would not have disclosed it and would have just looked elsewhere. And if it were only for 10% raises then definitely not.

kohr-ah

JoJoCal that is how my case is also and what I've been look at it.

Everyone keeps telling me how I am underpaid but when I left 2 jobs ago I went up 15%. Then I went up another 15%. And where I am at now I went up another 5% from Contract to Hire and I get a 15% bonus which just got sent out.

As long as I keep going up I am happy.

UnixGuy

Know yourself and know what YOU want before the interview.

Salary is one piece of the puzzle. I'll ask if there is any training in budget, if there is any overtime (that's a negative in my books), and what's the work load like. I ask what day to day tasks I'm going to be doing.

I share my salary (but I say we have over time and bonus)..then I IMMEDIATELY ask what the range they're offering. If it's low I ask WHY is it below market rate, and if everything else matches what I want I tell them that I'm sure we can come to an agreement and money won't be an issue (heh)

No_Nerd

So I get recruiters asking all the time wanting to know what I made before I was in Grad school . I let them know I was in the army and it is public knowledge. Then I ask the recruiter what they make ( this usually throws them off). Usually the recruiter will want to know how I am getting by without working and they try to hold the " don't you have student loans etc... " I let them know that I am very fortunate and don't need to work . If they keep pushing ( I have only had 2 in 3 years get this far) I tell them that I never have to work another day in my life. I usually end the conversation with " I feel that what I made in the past has no weight on what you should be paying me". I am overly polite and say something like I am sure we can develop a package including salary, vacation time and certification reimbursement which will benefits both parties. Sometime I get a call back , sometimes not.


Remember.... recruiters only want to "check that box" you are nothing more than a number...

UnixGuy

@JoJoCal19: I think with your experience and certification you can (and should) be VERY firm. If HR does that again, say NO and walk away; and let the manager know that HR is trying to pay you less and that you're worth more (don't accept any argument). Have the power of saying NO and walking away. They will either come back or they won't; eventually you will get what you want (with them or with other companies).

BradleyHU

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

Yup. After working for a large bank for 8 years (all of them in IT) I was severely underpaid according to going rate for someone with my experience, degree and certifications, probably in the range of $30-$40k. Of course the next company took advantage of that and even though the raise was 25%, HR wouldn't move forward until I disclosed my salary. All of a sudden the amount that I previously requested and they were ok with since it was well within range, they came in way lower. I decided to take it because I just needed out of the job I was in and to take a step forward. Same situation when I left that job, again still underpaid by a good bit but took a 20% jump a year later. Again my previous salary was used to justify the new one and they came in less than I originally asked for. Stayed there for a year and just recently started a new job, and even though again they did ask for my salary, they gave me a decent bump and I'm finally in the six figures and getting paid at the minimum that I feel I'm worth.

yo i absolutely HATE this game companies(mostly HR) play when it comes to compensation, and using my salary history to determine my next salary.