Thoughts on the course list for this "Network Security" Diploma?

Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
Hello fellow TEs users,

I wrote a while back about starting a career in IT and could really benefit from learning your thoughts on the program I'm considering.

A bit of context: I graduated with a business degree in 2015, shortly after I was hired into a business focused role by my current employer; a company that provides cloud security training/consulting, plus authorized training for vendor-neutral certs (e.g. ISC2, ISACA, EC-Council, Cloud Security Alliance ... etc.). Over the past two years my interest in starting a career in IT has grown significantly, down the road I'd be interested in eventually getting into the information security/risk mgmt space. But with no formal education in IT, or experience, I was hoping to find a local program that could provide me with a solid foundation to start a career in IT.

Long story short, I've found an accredited private career college in my city that offers a full time 48-week "Network Security" diploma program. To me it seems more networking than security, but I'm new to this so what do I know? Haha. Anyways, I'd love to learn your thoughts on the course list for the program:
  • CompTIA A+ and Network+ Certification
  • MS Windows 10
  • MS Server 2012
  • Installing and Configuring Windows Server 2012
  • Administering Windows Server 2012
  • MS AZURE Fundamentals
  • Core Solutions of Microsoft Exchange Server 2013
  • Cisco CCNA – Routing & Switching
  • Linux
  • Sophos & Fortinet Security I and Labs
  • Internetworking Technology Labs & Certification Preparation
Interestingly enough in addition to the diploma you also walk away with some industry certs which is always helpful.

So here are my questions:

1. How does this course load look to you?

2. In your opinion will this diploma, and the affiliated certs, be enough to open the door and help me land some interviews for a junior/entry-level role that is NOT help desk (e.g. Jr. Network Analyst)? For what it's worth I'm not opposed to getting my hands dirty in a help desk role, I'd just prefer starting in a networking position as it seems more in line with the program I'm considering.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance to those who find the time to reply!
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Comments

  • N7ValiantN7Valiant Senior Member Posts: 360Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Have you looked at any reviews for this college? If it is at least well regarded locally, then the diploma might be worth something. If it's just a diploma mill, you might not get your money's worth. It may also help to see if they have an advanced program that's a Bachelor's equivalent or if the credits are transferrable. Main reason being that if you're serious about it, you'll probably need a Bachelor's somewhere down the road, and it would be easier to find out now rather than later when you want an advanced degree and then find out you have to start off from scratch.

    Do they include or help you seek out internships? To me, that does seem like a lot of ground to cover in 48 weeks, although I have speculated that if you cut out much of the "Arts & Humanities" requirements from public college curriculum, an Associate's Degree could probably be achieved in 1 year instead of the usual 2.

    I don't think you should rule out the Help Desk entirely, even though I know where some people are coming from. 8 years in retail has solidified the fact that I'm not well suited to dealing with en masse customers daily. But I feel like my internship has taught me that working in an internal help desk where you serve faculty and staff is much more easier to cope with since you regularly have to see the same people each day and smart people know it's better to put more effort into a positive relationship in that environment.
    MCSE: Core Infrastructure
    MCSA: Windows Server 2016
    CompTIA A+ | Network+ | Security+ CE
  • TechGuru80TechGuru80 Posts: 1,539Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    Well you couldn't have posted here as you have 1 post...not starting out great.

    1. Course load is heavily IT based. You wouldn't need the following to get into Security:
    • CompTIA A+
    • MS Windows 10
    • Core Solutions of Microsoft Exchange Server 2013
    • Sophos & Fortinet Security I and Labs
    • Internetworking Technology Labs & Certification Preparation
    Install and Configuring Windows, and Administering Windows are part of MS Server 2012 MCSA certification so I don't know why they posted it like that. The subjects I just listed aren't anything you would really find in most security people at least from a certification standpoint.

    2. Networking isn't really EVER an entry level position. With that being said could it let you skip help desk...maybe...but either way you are going to be entry level. Is this an actual degree? Bachelors or Masters? You are making it confusing by calling it a diploma program, guessing you are not in the U.S. because thats not a common reference and neither is private career college.

    If you want to get into technical areas there are plenty of threads on what to get...but to summarize...MCSA:Server and/or CCNA:R&S (maybe Network+ but preferably not solely Network+) > Security+ > then at minimum start working towards CISSP & CISA/CISM since you want a GRC role.

    If your company offers cloud security consulting, have you asked them about positions or changing into a technical type role? If they will let you switch and hopefully have some of that inside training it will help a lot. Also, you can't just say "well eventually I want to switch"...either you want to and start working towards it now, or keep going down your current path. Tech changes all the time so you can just half commit. Even the subjects you listed for that program will be different versions or topics in 3-5 years, if not sooner.
  • TheFORCETheFORCE Senior Member Posts: 2,297Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    A bit of context: I graduated with a business degree in 2015, shortly after I was hired into a business focused role by my current employer; a company that provides cloud security training/consulting, plus authorized training for vendor-neutral certs (e.g. ISC2, ISACA, EC-Council, Cloud Security Alliance ... etc.).

    Why can't you take the training provided by the company you work for since that's what they offer to everyone else anyway? Get the certs, then do some internships or find a job in the field.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    TechGuru80 wrote: »
    Well you couldn't have posted here as you have 1 post...not starting out great.

    1. Course load is heavily IT based. You wouldn't need the following to get into Security:
    • CompTIA A+
    • MS Windows 10
    • Core Solutions of Microsoft Exchange Server 2013
    • Sophos & Fortinet Security I and Labs
    • Internetworking Technology Labs & Certification Preparation
    Install and Configuring Windows, and Administering Windows are part of MS Server 2012 MCSA certification so I don't know why they posted it like that. The subjects I just listed aren't anything you would really find in most security people at least from a certification standpoint.

    2. Networking isn't really EVER an entry level position. With that being said could it let you skip help desk...maybe...but either way you are going to be entry level. Is this an actual degree? Bachelors or Masters? You are making it confusing by calling it a diploma program, guessing you are not in the U.S. because thats not a common reference and neither is private career college.

    If you want to get into technical areas there are plenty of threads on what to get...but to summarize...MCSA:Server and/or CCNA:R&S (maybe Network+ but preferably not solely Network+) > Security+ > then at minimum start working towards CISSP & CISA/CISM since you want a GRC role.

    If your company offers cloud security consulting, have you asked them about positions or changing into a technical type role? If they will let you switch and hopefully have some of that inside training it will help a lot. Also, you can't just say "well eventually I want to switch"...either you want to and start working towards it now, or keep going down your current path. Tech changes all the time so you can just half commit. Even the subjects you listed for that program will be different versions or topics in 3-5 years, if not sooner.

    Thanks for the reply. In all honesty I did post here in a thread I made a few months back, although I can't seem to find it anymore and have no idea what happened. All that to be said I can understand how the "1 post" would make my claim of posting here in the past confusing/suspect.

    To be more clear, I don't expect to get into security for a few years. It's definitely helpful to know the courses you mentioned aren't typically associated with those in a security role though. This kind of confirms my hunch about this program being more networking/IT than security. That doesn't seem like a huge issue to me since I'm just starting out, but it's good to know.

    I'm in Canada and I don't think "diploma programs" and "private career college" are very common terms at all. If interested, this source seems to break down the differences between a diploma and degree. It's not a degree like a bachelors or masters though. And I'm a bit unsettled by the fact they are labeled as a private career college, yet the school and program are accredited, so maybe I'm over-thinking it?
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    TheFORCE wrote: »
    A bit of context: I graduated with a business degree in 2015, shortly after I was hired into a business focused role by my current employer; a company that provides cloud security training/consulting, plus authorized training for vendor-neutral certs (e.g. ISC2, ISACA, EC-Council, Cloud Security Alliance ... etc.).

    Why can't you take the training provided by the company you work for since that's what they offer to everyone else anyway? Get the certs, then do some internships or find a job in the field.

    An overwhelming amount of job postings in my area, whether it's internships or full-time, place an emphasis on having a post-secondary education as a requirement, specifically having a degree or diploma from an accredited school. Meanwhile from what I can tell it seems like certs are highly regarded too, but they are more of an asset than a requirement. Keep in mind this might differ for more advanced positions where experience is more of a factor, I've really only really payed attention to postings for entry-level/junior level.
  • Codeman6669Codeman6669 Posts: 227Member
    Thanks for the reply. In all honesty I did post here in a thread I made a few months back, although I can't seem to find it anymore and have no idea what happened. All that to be said I can understand how the "1 post" would make my claim of posting here in the past confusing/suspect.

    To be more clear, I don't expect to get into security for a few years. It's definitely helpful to know the courses you mentioned aren't typically associated with those in a security role though. This kind of confirms my hunch about this program being more networking/IT than security. That doesn't seem like a huge issue to me since I'm just starting out, but it's good to know.

    I'm in Canada and I don't think "diploma programs" and "private career college" are very common terms at all. If interested, this source seems to break down the differences between a diploma and degree. It's not a degree like a bachelors or masters though. And I'm a bit unsettled by the fact they are labeled as a private career college, yet the school and program are accredited, so maybe I'm over-thinking it?

    Typically what you are describing is known as a trade school. Thats how the line up of classes look to me. Often you can learn all this stuff on your own and save tons of money. The diploma will be worth... maybe something? The certifications you get might be worth more. I would invest your time into a degree from a community college in the area, and work on getting a few certs at the same time. You will likely save money and have a credible degree. Also keep in mind trade schools are often accredited as well. Just not from the places that are respected as "accredited". Its complicated, but generally speaking if it makes you question its integrity, its likely not who it appears to be.
  • gkcagkca Posts: 243Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I'm in Canada and I don't think "diploma programs" and "private career college" are very common terms at all. If interested, this source seems to break down the differences between a diploma and degree. It's not a degree like a bachelors or masters though. And I'm a bit unsettled by the fact they are labeled as a private career college, yet the school and program are accredited, so maybe I'm over-thinking it?
    Typically the diploma program at an accredited public college such as George Brown or Seneca would last 2 years for Diploma or 3 years for Advanced Diploma and would include a good amount o Gen Ed classes as well as applied and theory classes on various IT or CS topics,
    something like this:
    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana][B]SEMESTER 1[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1151[/TD]
    [TD]IT Essentials[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1176[/TD]
    [TD]Introduction to Networks - CCNA 1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1223[/TD]
    [TD]Web Development Fundamentals[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]GSSC1045[/TD]
    [TD]Business Applications for Information Technology[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]MATH1162[/TD]
    [TD]Mathematics for Computer Tecnology I[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMM1007[/TD]
    [TD]College English**[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana][B]SEMESTER 2[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1203[/TD]
    [TD]Routing and Switching Essentials - CCNA 2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3044[/TD]
    [TD]UNIX Essentials[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1231[/TD]
    [TD]Web Programming[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1232[/TD]
    [TD]Operating System Installation and Support[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]MATH1172[/TD]
    [TD]Mathematics for Computer Technology II[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]GSSC1027[/TD]
    [TD]Personal Finance[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana][B]SEMESTER 3[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1196[/TD]
    [TD]Scaling Networks - CCNA 3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP2064[/TD]
    [TD]Windows Servers Active Directory Configuration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP2144[/TD]
    [TD]Web Server Administration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP2148[/TD]
    [TD]Professional workplace competencies[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3066[/TD]
    [TD]UNIX System Administration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]GNED[/TD]
    [TD]General Education Elective[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana][B]SEMESTER 4[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP1197[/TD]
    [TD]Connecting Networks - CCNA 4[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP2102[/TD]
    [TD]Wireless Technology Fundamentals[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP2141[/TD]
    [TD]Windows Server Network Infrastructure[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP2152[/TD]
    [TD]Open Source development[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3061[/TD]
    [TD]Computer Security Fundamentals[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]GNED[/TD]
    [TD]General Education Elective[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [B]NETWORKING SPECIALIZATION[/B]
    
    [B]SEMESTER 5[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3076[/TD]
    [TD]Network Infrastructure Security[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3049[/TD]
    [TD]WLAN Administration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3098[/TD]
    [TD]Enterprise Network and System Design[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3093[/TD]
    [TD]Infrastructure Virtualization[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3112[/TD]
    [TD]IP Telephony Services[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3115[/TD]
    [TD]Information Systems Project Management[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    [B]SEMESTER 6[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3094[/TD]
    [TD]ITIL Foundation[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3107[/TD]
    [TD]Enterprise Network Management[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3108[/TD]
    [TD]Cloud Computing Infrastructure[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3099[/TD]
    [TD]Capstone Project[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3111[/TD]
    [TD]Broadband and Data Communications[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    [B]SYSTEMS SPECIALIZATION[/B]
    
    [B]SEMESTER 5[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3102[/TD]
    [TD]Mail Server Administration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3103[/TD]
    [TD]Power Shell Scripting[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3114[/TD]
    [TD]Database Administration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3115[/TD]
    [TD]Information Systems Project Management[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3098[/TD]
    [TD]Enterprise Network and System Design[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3093[/TD]
    [TD]Infrastructure Virtualization[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    [B]SEMESTER 6[/B]
    
    [TABLE="class: twocol, width: 567"]
    [TR]
    [TH="align: left"]Code[/TH]
    [TH="align: left"]Course name[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3094[/TD]
    [TD]ITIL Foundation[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3108[/TD]
    [TD]Cloud Computing Infrastructure[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3099[/TD]
    [TD]Capstone Project[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3113[/TD]
    [TD]Advanced Computer System Security[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]COMP3121[/TD]
    [TD]System Data Collaboration[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    
    "I needed a password with eight characters so I picked Snow White and the Seven Dwarves." (c) Nick Helm
  • Bjcheung77Bjcheung77 Posts: 89Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I noticed your post earlier. If you're new to IT, having a diploma isn't a bad idea. You can continue working and taking the program if possible - I did that while I was starting in IT way back in 99, I was going to school after I finished working. Online "education" wasn't available back then...

    Your main vendor neutral certifications should be from CompTIA. I would then work on the certs from Cisco/Microsoft - specifically the ones that are popular, such as the new CCNA CyberSecurity. BTW, How much is the total tuition for this program? Where in Canada are you? Which private school is this?

    Another option is to go for the Competency Based Associates degrees and ladder up to a Bachelors degree in IT. There are a few out there that are recommended due to being cheap/easy/fast and it will get you ready for certifications or allow certs to be transferred into the program. BTW, I tried to PM you OP... your PM has been turned off.
  • TechGromitTechGromit A+, N+, GSEC, GCIH, GREM, Ontario, NY Posts: 1,928Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    • CompTIA A+ and Network+ Certification
    • MS Windows 10
    • MS Server 2012
    • Installing and Configuring Windows Server 2012
    • Administering Windows Server 2012
    • MS AZURE Fundamentals
    • Core Solutions of Microsoft Exchange Server 2013
    • Cisco CCNA – Routing & Switching
    • Linux
    • Sophos & Fortinet Security I and Labs
    • Internetworking Technology Labs & Certification Preparation

    Seems like an awfully aggressive course load to me, if they teach what your listing here. Take the CCNA by it's self. the global knowledge boot camp for the CCNA, is a 5 day course, 12 hours a day. Far as I can see from the website, Willis College doesn't indicate how many classroom hours are a day you attend classes or the number of days per week. For a regular college, that translates that into 4 classes, 1 hour class, 3 times a week, you come up with 5 weeks just for that one subject, with 11 subjects listed here, that's 55 weeks. It's doable, but it's a LOT to learn in a relatively short amount of time.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    Bjcheung77 wrote: »
    I noticed your post earlier. If you're new to IT, having a diploma isn't a bad idea. You can continue working and taking the program if possible - I did that while I was starting in IT way back in 99, I was going to school after I finished working. Online "education" wasn't available back then...

    Your main vendor neutral certifications should be from CompTIA. I would then work on the certs from Cisco/Microsoft - specifically the ones that are popular, such as the new CCNA CyberSecurity. BTW, How much is the total tuition for this program? Where in Canada are you? Which private school is this?

    Another option is to go for the Competency Based Associates degrees and ladder up to a Bachelors degree in IT. There are a few out there that are recommended due to being cheap/easy/fast and it will get you ready for certifications or allow certs to be transferred into the program. BTW, I tried to PM you OP... your PM has been turned off.

    Thanks for the response and for letting me know about my PM. I wasn't aware it was turned off, I'll look into getting that up and running.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    TechGromit wrote: »
    Seems like an awfully aggressive course load to me, if they teach what your listing here. Take the CCNA by it's self. the global knowledge boot camp for the CCNA, is a 5 day course, 12 hours a day. Far as I can see from the website, Willis College doesn't indicate how many classroom hours are a day you attend classes or the number of days per week. For a regular college, that translates that into 4 classes, 1 hour class, 3 times a week, you come up with 5 weeks just for that one subject, with 11 subjects listed here, that's 55 weeks. It's doable, but it's a LOT to learn in a relatively short amount of time.


    Great observation. I actually have this information, I just never thought of posting it before. Here's how the program breaks down everything:

    EDIT: course syllabus has changed. Check-out post #21 for the updated version.

    How does it look? The "Hours" column represents the amount of hours spent in the classroom, and doesn't take into account any study time that occurs after class hours - and there will be plenty of that.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    Does anyone know if there's a minimum amount of posts that need to be made before I can receive/send PM's? I keep receiving a System Message notification that explains I don't have permission to access my inbox :S I've taken a quick glance looking for a forum rules section but haven't had much luck.. will look again after work.
  • N7ValiantN7Valiant Senior Member Posts: 360Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I believe a minimum of 10 posts are required to enable PMs.
    MCSE: Core Infrastructure
    MCSA: Windows Server 2016
    CompTIA A+ | Network+ | Security+ CE
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    N7Valiant wrote: »
    I believe a minimum of 10 posts are required to enable PMs.

    Perfect, thank you for the response!
  • TechGuru80TechGuru80 Posts: 1,539Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    You can’t pass CCNA with only 9 hours of prep.
  • QueueQueue Posts: 174Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    The only issue I experienced with those all-in-one type programs is the amount of material covered vs. time. For example I took an Exchange course, and the instructor said we don't have enough time to cover this so we're doing a high level review. Well, that's not really worth the money you pay. You can do a high level review of Exchange on your own if you want.

    Second, it's going to take a lot longer studying for the certifications than those classes make it seem. You won't leave the program with all those certifications. In my experience, at minimum for A+,N+,S+,CCNA is 1 to 1.5 years.

    If the program isn't too expensive I would go for it. You will be provided all the training materials (make sure hard copy and not just a bunch of eBooks).

    But if it just a program that provides you with minimal class time, Ebooks, and videos galore, I would explore other options. CBT nuggets, Udemy, INE, etc all provide that same experience. The diploma isn't the important thing it's the certifications that you pass from the material.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    TechGuru80 wrote: »
    You can’t pass CCNA with only 9 hours of prep.

    That's a good catch. I myself thought 9 hours of training/school seemed a bit short for CCNA Routing and Switching. At least when you consider A+ has 20 hours. I've emailed my contact at the school about this today and am waiting to hear back.

    Interestingly enough your comment made me curious,.. I discovered if you were to add up all of the hours assigned to each course in that diploma program you would have 849 hours which is odd considering the "Total Program Hours" is apparently 969. I'm no mathematician but that clearly doesn't add up. I'm hoping the 9 hours assigned to CCNA is supposed to be 129 ... but we'll see what my contact says.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    Queue wrote: »
    The only issue I experienced with those all-in-one type programs is the amount of material covered vs. time. For example I took an Exchange course, and the instructor said we don't have enough time to cover this so we're doing a high level review. Well, that's not really worth the money you pay. You can do a high level review of Exchange on your own if you want.

    Second, it's going to take a lot longer studying for the certifications than those classes make it seem. You won't leave the program with all those certifications. In my experience, at minimum for A+,N+,S+,CCNA is 1 to 1.5 years.

    If the program isn't too expensive I would go for it. You will be provided all the training materials (make sure hard copy and not just a bunch of eBooks).

    But if it just a program that provides you with minimal class time, Ebooks, and videos galore, I would explore other options. CBT nuggets, Udemy, INE, etc all provide that same experience. The diploma isn't the important thing it's the certifications that you pass from the material.

    This is a great point and I agree. While I expect there to be some high-level discussions for various topics, it's going to be a problem if EVERY topic is approached from a high-level. It is not worth the money and like you said, there's nothing stopping me from doing that on my own time. I don't expect that to be the case for this program, however I'll make a note of talking with the instructor beforehand to gain a better understanding of his/her teaching style and what to expect.

    As for the length of time it will take to gain the required knowledge to pass each certification exam, I agree, it will take a lot more time than what that program has listed. The information above was strictly for the amount of hours I will spend in the classroom learning about the course, I expect it will take much longer than that to gain the knowledge needed to gain all of the certs covered in the program. I'm hoping that with a lot of hard (and smart) work outside class hours I'll be able to have my A+ and N+ before the program ends... hopefully sooner. Although I'm going to plan for a few more certifications than those two as studying will be my main priority for that period, work will come second -- IF I feel it isn't impacting my studies.
  • TechGromitTechGromit A+, N+, GSEC, GCIH, GREM, Ontario, NY Posts: 1,928Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    TechGuru80 wrote: »
    You can’t pass CCNA with only 9 hours of prep.

    The Global Knowledge CCNA training program is a 60 hour course, what can you really learn in 9 hours. There is 20 hours of Lab 4, what I would assume are Cisco based labs, that's something at least, but still less than half of what you would need to get a good understanding of the topic. 20 hours is a little light for Linux as well. Most people have at least some familiarity with Windows, so the learning curve isn't that great, but Linux is a totally alien concept for most people, your spending 120 hours on Windows 7 & 8 and only 20 hours on Linux?
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    I'm told the information I had for the program has been updated recently, making the syllabus I posted earlier outdated. Here's the updated version:

    updated-_NSP.png

    In case anyone was curious, here's what the updated assigned class time for each course looks like (in no particular order):

    A+ = 5 weeks
    N+ = 5 weeks
    Cloud / Microsoft Azure = 2 weeks
    Labs & Certification Prep = 3 weeks
    MS Windows 10 = 3 weeks
    CCNA Router & Switch = 5 weeks
    Business IT Skills 1 & 2 = 4 weeks
    Linux = 3 weeks
    Installing / Configuring Windows Server 2012 = 4 weeks
    MS Windows Server 2012 = 4 weeks
    Sophos Security 1 = 3 weeks
    Sophos Security Lab = 2 weeks
    Fortinet Security 1 = 3 weeks
    Fortinet Security Lab = 1 week

    Aside from the assigned times for each course it doesn't appear too much has changed, but it does clear up the whole CCNA router/switch discussion earlier regarding it being only 9 hours of class time - it appears as if it's actually 5 weeks (or roughly 100 hours) of training for this.
  • beadsbeads Senior Member Posts: 1,452Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Looks like a lot of effort just to learn how to interpret logs. You do realize we spend roughly reading logs day in and day out, right?

    LOL

    - b/eads
  • TechGromitTechGromit A+, N+, GSEC, GCIH, GREM, Ontario, NY Posts: 1,928Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Those numbers look better, but it still doesn't add up to 48 weeks, where the other week go?
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
  • N7ValiantN7Valiant Senior Member Posts: 360Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I think the big question is what are the full courses of certifications it would qualify/prep you for and how well you plan to take them. I did a community college AS program but didn't take it until I was almost done(past 6 months). I probably wouldn't have passed if I didn't do my own independent study.

    In retrospect, I believe I could have passed just by studying on my own, given that there are certain big gaps between what the college teaches me and what comes up on the exam. The gaps usually involve practical experience in actually setting up a network or working the command line, which may depend on how well your college prepares you, but if you can find such material online I believe that would work just as well.

    I do find it interesting that they would give you security labs but don't throw any security focused certifications (Security+, CCNA-Security) your way. Now granted, even if they don't serve that up to you in the coursework, it wouldn't matter if you can make good use of it(i.e. get the other certs out of your way, then study up for Sec+, CCNA-Sec on your own either overlapping with those labs or right on the tail of them).
    MCSE: Core Infrastructure
    MCSA: Windows Server 2016
    CompTIA A+ | Network+ | Security+ CE
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    TechGromit wrote: »
    Those numbers look better, but it still doesn't add up to 48 weeks, where the other week go?

    The missing time is essentially dedicated to the HR side of things; resume building, applying for security clearance, and few other things.
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    N7Valiant wrote: »
    I think the big question is what are the full courses of certifications it would qualify/prep you for and how well you plan to take them. I did a community college AS program but didn't take it until I was almost done(past 6 months). I probably wouldn't have passed if I didn't do my own independent study.

    In retrospect, I believe I could have passed just by studying on my own, given that there are certain big gaps between what the college teaches me and what comes up on the exam. The gaps usually involve practical experience in actually setting up a network or working the command line, which may depend on how well your college prepares you, but if you can find such material online I believe that would work just as well.

    I do find it interesting that they would give you security labs but don't throw any security focused certifications (Security+, CCNA-Security) your way. Now granted, even if they don't serve that up to you in the coursework, it wouldn't matter if you can make good use of it(i.e. get the other certs out of your way, then study up for Sec+, CCNA-Sec on your own either overlapping with those labs or right on the tail of them).

    In a perfect world that's exactly what would happen. At this point I don't know if it's realistic for me to study for S+ or CCNA-Sec while also studying for the courses being taught inside this program, however if I can do so without it having an impact on my grades then that will certainly be the goal. Regardless, if it can't be done then I'll aim to gain a few security certs right after I finish the program. I'm not sure what makes more sense for me between S+ and CCNA-Sec, or should I be aiming for both? On an unrelated note, one cert I'll be aiming for out of personal interest is CCSK.
  • Bjcheung77Bjcheung77 Posts: 89Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    TechGromit wrote: »
    Those numbers look better, but it still doesn't add up to 48 weeks, where the other week go?

    From looking at the screenshot, I would guess it's the "Career Management" section that will take up a week.
  • N7ValiantN7Valiant Senior Member Posts: 360Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    In a perfect world that's exactly what would happen. At this point I don't know if it's realistic for me to study for S+ or CCNA-Sec while also studying for the courses being taught inside this program, however if I can do so without it having an impact on my grades then that will certainly be the goal. Regardless, if it can't be done then I'll aim to gain a few security certs right after I finish the program. I'm not sure what makes more sense for me between S+ and CCNA-Sec, or should I be aiming for both? On an unrelated note, one cert I'll be aiming for out of personal interest is CCSK.
    I know my .edu address gives me an academic discount for the CompTIA exam vouchers, which is a bigger discount than what you can find for free, so it's a benefit for me to at least schedule those exams while I'm in school.

    Security+ is a vendor neutral cert that shows you have a fundamental understanding of security concepts. CCNA-Sec is specific to Cisco. However, Cisco commanded about 60% market share in the ethernet switch market. Granted it fell 15% since 2011, but it would still be like getting a basic certification in Windows. Two different animals IMO.
    MCSE: Core Infrastructure
    MCSA: Windows Server 2016
    CompTIA A+ | Network+ | Security+ CE
  • Bobby AxelrodBobby Axelrod Posts: 21Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    N7Valiant wrote: »
    I know my .edu address gives me an academic discount for the CompTIA exam vouchers, which is a bigger discount than what you can find for free, so it's a benefit for me to at least schedule those exams while I'm in school.

    Security+ is a vendor neutral cert that shows you have a fundamental understanding of security concepts. CCNA-Sec is specific to Cisco. However, Cisco commanded about 60% market share in the ethernet switch market. Granted it fell 15% since 2011, but it would still be like getting a basic certification in Windows. Two different animals IMO.

    Thanks for the response N7Valiant. I'm familiar with CompTIA and other vendor-neutral certifications (from EC-Council, ISC2, ISACA, Cloud Security Alliance ... etc.); while the opposite can be said about vendor-specific certs. They are a bit foreign to me. From the sounds of it, the answer to the question of which cert would be "better" comes down to opinion/situation. If a future employer uses Cisco products then they might naturally prefer to see CCNA-Sec on my resume, while S+ seems like the safer play for me as it's applicable to more environments? That's how I see it, but not sure if that's an accurate opinion on my behalf.
  • LarryTRLarryTR Posts: 56Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    Many colleges do offer what they call undergraduate "diploma" or "certificate" programs. They are not degrees, rather more like trade school programs where you get a "certificate of completion". When you think about it, that's all a diploma really is...a certificate that says you completed something. So yes, a paper degree can also be called a diploma, yet a "diploma program" is never a degree. Just keep that in mind. I think schools use the word "diploma" because it sounds more valuable. When, in fact, it's just a certificate of completion. LOL.

    Also, sometimes (but not always), these certificates do not require you learn anything or get a grade, rather you just have to be there/go through the course material and maybe take quizzes. Even if you fail/don't learn anything, you still get that "certificate of completion" lol. Because you DID complete the course. Whether or not you earned anything is irrelevant to them. Ed2Go/Cengage career programs come to mind. But the same could be said for college courses, I guess. If you get a C or a D, did you really learn anything or enough? Yet, a C is passing at most colleges for most degrees and even a D is passing for General Ed. courses.

    Anyway...

    Also, just keep in keep in mind that 99% of the time the courses in these certificate or diploma programs are not "for credit" and therefore cannot usually be transferred to a college/university to satisfy credit transfers. Something to think about for the future if you do decide to go the certificate/diploma route.

    As to whether having this "diploma" or certificate would help you get your foot in the door on the tech side of IT, that is hard to answer since there are many factors such as where you will be applying for jobs. It depends on the IT market in that region and then also with each specific employer. Having a BS degree (non-IT) with IT certs might work for some companies in some regions, but not in others.

    If you plan on getting into tech in the same local area where the school is situated, you may want to ask IT tech hiring managers what they think of that program as well as the school itself.

    You should also do some research online for reviews of the school. Although, take these with a grain of salt as drop-outs have louder mouths than those who actually completed the program.

    That said, it could help if you just post the name of the school.

    One thing that worries me is your use of the word "career school". We have a couple of those in my area. They are VERY expensive because they are not just private, but for-profit. They offer both certificate courses and AAS degrees and they cost WAY more than a community college degree!!! One has a very bad reputation while the other one has a somewhat decent reputation in the local area. One of the problems with these career schools is that you go to class on what I call a "high school schedule". Meaning, you have to go from about 8AM to 3PM M-F. Much like vo-tech. There's nothing wrong with this, but it can be impossible to do for working folks.

    Point is, you may find that, given you already have a degree, it would be cheaper to get a BS degree in IT from a regionally accredited college or university. You could transfer in all or most of your General Ed classes you already took. If you do look into another college degree, make sure it's a REGIONALLY accredit college, not a nationally accredited college. You won't likely come out with certs, but the degree may hold more value than this "diploma". Again, it all depends, though.

    What you posted isn't really a syllabus, it's just a basic outline of each section of the program. A syllabus would have a bit more detail as to what students will be taught and expected to learn, specifically. It usually also tells you what books or other resources you are required to buy for the course. At least this is what a syllabus was when I was enrolled in a state University over a decade ago.

    At any rate, I would also look into what others have said and see if there is any way that your current employer can help you transition into a tech role within their company. That would be easy and convenient since they are a tech company and you already work there. You also might want to ask some tech managers at your company what they would think of if they came across a person with your experience, your degree and that diploma certificate from that school. That might give you some idea if it's worth paying for that program. This would also start a dialog with the tech managers that could lead to a transition to the tech side of the company. Or they could just look at you as somewhat of a thread. Things always have a positive and a negative side lol.
  • Bjcheung77Bjcheung77 Posts: 89Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    LarryTR's recommendation is valid - it's similar to what I recommended this person:

    Oh, to add... this may work for your as well, see link: Note though, WGU only accepts individuals that are from the USA and selective parts of Canada - www.techexams.net/forums/general-certification/129926-where-go-what-do.html#post1122882

    Update: Link wasn't working, fixed
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