And this is why I hate ALL recruiters
cyberguypr
Mod Posts: 6,927 Mod
I really try to give recruiters the benefit of the doubt every now and then but their soulless beings always disappoint me. A few weeks ago I came across that one job posting that stands out of the noise and make you got "Hmm...".
Recruiter 1 pitches the role through LinkedIn. I am intrigued so I ask for compensation right off the bat. Given the 10-15 hits I receive on a weekly basis this is my gating. He replies with the number. The base was a substantial increase over my compensation, similar benefits, same industry; it's a specialization extremely in line with my expertise. I'm honest and tell him that I have been eternally disappointed by recruiters. He says he's ben in the game for 20+ years, specializes in critical high profile hires, blah blah blah, and give me more details on his relationship with the current client. I like what I hear so I ask him for a time to talk. Then he goes radio silent. It has been 2 weeks now.
Recruiter 2 from another company pitches me the exact same role. Message seems canned so my BS radar goes off. I tell her that the roles does pique my interest, that another recruiter reached out and then ghosted me, but I was willing to hear more from her. She says that "given that another recruiter has already reached out to you on this position, it will be an overlap on my part. Will keep you posted on other suitable positions.” I get triggered and answer back indicating that this is an example on why I hate recruiters. I had to ELI5 that I never agreed to anything with previous recruiter and therefore her comment did not make any sense. She then replies with “send updated resume, your expected compensation, and your current one”. That is all I need to know to move on and add her to the wall of shame.
Recruiter 3 and 4 reach out with same job. Immediately ignore them because of multiple typical red flags.
Recruiter 5 reaches out. I tell him upfront I have received this exact same role from now 5 recruiters all claiming to be preferred vendors for the hiring company. I tell him sorry but coming off strong and that I am interested in the role but refuse to work with non-transparent agencies that give recruiters a bad name. He says he understands and even gives me names of people he has placed in the hiring company. I recognize two so he gets point in his favor. This guy seems like the real deal. I ask him about next steps if interested. He then tells me he got more info from the hiring manager and gives me this "Application security focus. Develops App Sec strategy, contributing to the broader security strategy." There’s a small problem: this role has zero to do with AppSec. I question him on this and he stands by it and says it came directly from the hiring VP. Weird. I then ask about next steps. He says that he “tried submitting someone today into the job portal but it said they weren’t accepting additional candidates, submissions may be resumed later. I’ll let you know what I hear”. I then go to the company’s portal directly and see that there’s no issue applying for that specific role. What the heck!
At this point I’m losing all interest. You may ask, why I didn’t apply directly to the company? Well’ the Infosec leadership at this company came from my current company. I know that in the past they have reached out to my current leadership to inquire about candidates that work/worked for us and were looking to move over there. I’m not ready for that call to happen since I’m only in an exploratory phase to see if the role is a good fit so my hope was that a good recruiter could relay this to the hiring manager before a formal application is submitted.
TLDR: Recruiter suck and always will!
Recruiter 1 pitches the role through LinkedIn. I am intrigued so I ask for compensation right off the bat. Given the 10-15 hits I receive on a weekly basis this is my gating. He replies with the number. The base was a substantial increase over my compensation, similar benefits, same industry; it's a specialization extremely in line with my expertise. I'm honest and tell him that I have been eternally disappointed by recruiters. He says he's ben in the game for 20+ years, specializes in critical high profile hires, blah blah blah, and give me more details on his relationship with the current client. I like what I hear so I ask him for a time to talk. Then he goes radio silent. It has been 2 weeks now.
Recruiter 2 from another company pitches me the exact same role. Message seems canned so my BS radar goes off. I tell her that the roles does pique my interest, that another recruiter reached out and then ghosted me, but I was willing to hear more from her. She says that "given that another recruiter has already reached out to you on this position, it will be an overlap on my part. Will keep you posted on other suitable positions.” I get triggered and answer back indicating that this is an example on why I hate recruiters. I had to ELI5 that I never agreed to anything with previous recruiter and therefore her comment did not make any sense. She then replies with “send updated resume, your expected compensation, and your current one”. That is all I need to know to move on and add her to the wall of shame.
Recruiter 3 and 4 reach out with same job. Immediately ignore them because of multiple typical red flags.
Recruiter 5 reaches out. I tell him upfront I have received this exact same role from now 5 recruiters all claiming to be preferred vendors for the hiring company. I tell him sorry but coming off strong and that I am interested in the role but refuse to work with non-transparent agencies that give recruiters a bad name. He says he understands and even gives me names of people he has placed in the hiring company. I recognize two so he gets point in his favor. This guy seems like the real deal. I ask him about next steps if interested. He then tells me he got more info from the hiring manager and gives me this "Application security focus. Develops App Sec strategy, contributing to the broader security strategy." There’s a small problem: this role has zero to do with AppSec. I question him on this and he stands by it and says it came directly from the hiring VP. Weird. I then ask about next steps. He says that he “tried submitting someone today into the job portal but it said they weren’t accepting additional candidates, submissions may be resumed later. I’ll let you know what I hear”. I then go to the company’s portal directly and see that there’s no issue applying for that specific role. What the heck!
At this point I’m losing all interest. You may ask, why I didn’t apply directly to the company? Well’ the Infosec leadership at this company came from my current company. I know that in the past they have reached out to my current leadership to inquire about candidates that work/worked for us and were looking to move over there. I’m not ready for that call to happen since I’m only in an exploratory phase to see if the role is a good fit so my hope was that a good recruiter could relay this to the hiring manager before a formal application is submitted.
TLDR: Recruiter suck and always will!
Comments
2020: GCIP | GCIA
2021: GRID | GDSA | Pentest+
2022: GMON | GDAT
2023: GREM | GSE | GCFA
WGU BS IT-NA | SANS Grad Cert: PT&EH | SANS Grad Cert: ICS Security | SANS Grad Cert: Cyber Defense Ops | SANS Grad Cert: Incident Response
Also, direct applications all seem to be on taleo these days and it takes literally 30 mins of your time to go through it, not counting the time if you want to adapt your resume etc. The result is typically close to zero, i.e. it is a waste of time.
That would only work if it's Revoked.
Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance - Western Governors University
Bachelor of Science in Network Administration - Western Governors University
Associate of Applied Science x4 - Heald College
2019 Goals: CISSP, Splunk certifications (Certified Core, Power User, Admin, and Architect)
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Malware_Mike
Website: https://www.malwaremike.com
Finally, sensing more BS I purposely test him by saying I wanted to trade my daily driver (I had zero intention of doing this). Car is a near mint, low mileage German easily in the top 5% of similar cars in the region. The kid goes talks to the big kahuna and gives him the keys. After examining the car the kid comes to me and says kahuna offers $20k. Car was at least worth $30k in dealer trade-in, way more private party. I again ask him to double and triple check with kahuna because the number made zero sense. I reminded him that my car was the top trim in pristine shape with low miles. Kahuna then comes and starts "well, let me explain how cars work, they depreciate and are never worth what you pay...". Right then and there i loudly say 'STOP! Do I look 19? Do you patronize all your serious potential customers?" Kahuna's eyes opened wide as he wasn't expecting the backlash. I firmly said: "Last chance: is $20k your final offer?" He said yes, so I stood up, grabbed my keys and left. It was glorious seeing kahuna through my rear view mirror yelling and motioning me to please come back.
I was so upset that the next day woke up early to go to the Chevy dealer down the road and ended up buying a Camaro from a superb salesman.
TLDR: Most car salesmen, like recruiters, are the scum of the earth.
[2018] - MBA - IT Management - WGU (PASS)
HR: “What if we train them and they leave?”
ME: “What if we don’t train them and they stay?”
You just seemed like you needed some mansplaining. He was only trying to help
When a daddy cardealer and a mommy car owner love each other very, very much...
Server & Networking: MCSA: Windows Server 2016 | MTA: Networking Fundamentals
Data Privacy & Project/Service Management: PECB GDPR DPO/Practitioner | ITIL 2011: Foundation | CompTIA Project+
Currently Studying: Microsoft 365 Enterprise Administrator Expert
Already passed: Oracle Cloud, AZ-900
Taking AZ-104 in December.
"Certs... is all about IT certs!"
1) Internal recruiters for a company are usually good.
2) Most solicitations from 3rd party companies are garbage.
a) As paul78 mentioned asking for the job description, and any other specifics, usually kills the conversation.
3) My resume is my resource. Recruiters ask for them so they can fill their "pipeline" with them. IE: I had a conversation with a former recruiter once who said they keep a matrix of resumes for each position. Thus, they have to have one for Jr/Mid/Sr for a give role at all times.
4) Be skeptical at all times with recruiters.
5) The end client is paying them, and the client is the customer. As a candidate, you are the resource.
6) At the end of the day, the recruiter gets paid to fill a position. Thus, don't ever expect to get any big pay bump when going through a recruiter.
I really loathe dealing with them though, my tactic has typically been when I get cold called I give them a number well above what I make or am looking for because it typically gets them to leave me alone immediately, or occasionally I'll get surprised and they'll say they can do it lol.
Ask for a JD, ask for salary, and if they don't line up with what you want, or can't provide it, tell them to pound sand.
If they're hiring for a specific role, and it's a role you want, they're usually worth engaging. Definitely better than filling out applications on Taleo all day.
Haven't had to really apply for a job in the last 3 job changes thanks to recruiters, so there's that. I just treat it like online dating and assume they're going to flake out on me, and the profile pic... job description is probably photoshopped.
Haha, I love that.
Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance - Western Governors University
Bachelor of Science in Network Administration - Western Governors University
Associate of Applied Science x4 - Heald College
I think I would have walked when he told you it was 41k, when you said you liked it. If you really liked it would the price than be 43k? Loved it 45K?
No way, dude, they are usually worse the higher you go up! Honestly being qualified for that kind of a job, you should just find out the hiring manager and follow up after you did the formality of applying. They will appreciate getting a qualified candidate while bypassing the red tape and games of recruiters while not waiting around for the ATS to spit out someone. You cut through the BS and red tape.
That would scare them for sure
Recruiters have their place. They can get you past the Application Tracking Systems.
Likes:
1) They can stream line the process to get you an interview.
2) In a few conversations they can present several jobs to you.
--What do you think of this job.. or that job?
3) The process of lining up an interview with a recruiters client /customer is a lot quicker, than with a company that does not use a recruiter.
Dis Likes:
1) Come to my office for an interview, I might have some roles for you. After the interview they say, "I'm sorry I don't have any roles right now."
I have had some recruiters do this to me. Maybe recruiters get free gas, but I DO NOT. I have to pay for my gas. Why are you wasting my time to have me come to your office, and pay $5.00-$10.00 for gas, just tell me you MIGHT have some roles. Can you company do web sessions, or Skype? Other recruiting companies that you compete against with can do virtual interviews, why can't you? Get with the times!!
2) I have some roles for you I want to submit you for. I submitted you for this role, but you didn't get it. Me: Why not? Oh they didn't tell us they wanted someone with xyz technology experience for this role.
Odd shouldn't you know what your customer wants? Did you even read my resume? Oh wait I forgot you're a Senior recruiter, so you shouldn't know how to do your homework and find out what your customer wants or needs.
3) They never really seem to know anything about the role. Here are the requirements---A generic job description is sent.
4) They care more about their commission, than you having the right role/job.
5) They got college degrees in fields not related to HR, but some how recruiting seemed like a good fit. I really feel like anyone could be a recruiter.
---I heard they pay contractors less, so that they can make a bigger profit. Is this true?
There are some good recruiters out there, but they're few and few between. I think majority of the recruiters just look out for number one.
--Alexander Graham Bell,
American inventor
I've encountered recruiters flat out lying through there teeth, one didn't tell me that the position had already been filled and that the interview was just a quota but I backed out at the last second due to a bad gut feeling, nasty attitudes specially from an HR manager, and the list goes on.
Contractors do generally get paid less because staffing agency have a bill rate to the client and so the less they pay you the more they pocket. For example, the client pays the recruiter/staffing agency $100 an hour and from that they pay you the contractor say $20 an hour so they pocket $80 an hour. I understand they have overhead to pay but they want to get as much of that as possible.
Finally, good luck!
I hate when you go for a role and they're all nice and friendly on your case honing etc but as soon as the role goes cold you cant even get a reason why or feedback bunch of classless morons