And this is why I hate ALL recruiters

I really try to give recruiters the benefit of the doubt every now and then but their soulless beings always disappoint me. A few weeks ago I came across that one job posting that stands out of the noise and make you got "Hmm...".

Recruiter 1 pitches the role through LinkedIn. I am intrigued so I ask for compensation right off the bat. Given the 10-15 hits I receive on a weekly basis this is my gating. He replies with the number. The base was a substantial increase over my compensation, similar benefits, same industry; it's a specialization extremely in line with my expertise. I'm honest and tell him that I have been eternally disappointed by recruiters. He says he's ben in the game for 20+ years, specializes in critical high profile hires, blah blah blah, and give me more details on his relationship with the current client. I like what I hear so I ask him for a time to talk. Then he goes radio silent. It has been 2 weeks now.

Recruiter 2 from another company pitches me the exact same role. Message seems canned so my BS radar goes off. I tell her that the roles does pique my interest, that another recruiter reached out and then ghosted me, but I was willing to hear more from her. She says that "given that another recruiter has already reached out to you on this position, it will be an overlap on my part. Will keep you posted on other suitable positions.” I get triggered and answer back indicating that this is an example on why I hate recruiters. I had to ELI5 that I never agreed to anything with previous recruiter and therefore her comment did not make any sense. She then replies with “send updated resume, your expected compensation, and your current one”. That is all I need to know to move on and add her to the wall of shame.

Recruiter 3 and 4 reach out with same job. Immediately ignore them because of multiple typical red flags.

Recruiter 5 reaches out. I tell him upfront I have received this exact same role from now 5 recruiters all claiming to be preferred vendors for the hiring company. I tell him sorry but coming off strong and that I am interested in the role but refuse to work with non-transparent agencies that give recruiters a bad name. He says he understands and even gives me names of people he has placed in the hiring company. I recognize two so he gets point in his favor. This guy seems like the real deal. I ask him about next steps if interested. He then tells me he got more info from the hiring manager and gives me this "Application security focus. Develops App Sec strategy, contributing to the broader security strategy." There’s a small problem: this role has zero to do with AppSec. I question him on this and he stands by it and says it came directly from the hiring VP. Weird. I then ask about next steps. He says that he “tried submitting someone today into the job portal but it said they weren’t accepting additional candidates, submissions may be resumed later. I’ll let you know what I hear”. I then go to the company’s portal directly and see that there’s no issue applying for that specific role. What the heck!

At this point I’m losing all interest. You may ask, why I didn’t apply directly to the company? Well’ the Infosec leadership at this company came from my current company. I know that in the past they have reached out to my current leadership to inquire about candidates that work/worked for us and were looking to move over there. I’m not ready for that call to happen since I’m only in an exploratory phase to see if the role is a good fit so my hope was that a good recruiter could relay this to the hiring manager before a formal application is submitted.

TLDR: Recruiter suck and always will!

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Comments

paul78

MeanDrunkR2D2 wrote: »

In fact, I'll never do work for TekSystems...

LOL - not the first time TekSystems has negatively mentioned in these forums.

In seriousness though, references go both ways. I also do back-channel checks on the people that I work for. Usually, I'm looking for compatibility and the exec leadership work ethic, etc. I've always thought it was a good practice to check out a prospective employer.

MalwareMike

MeanDrunkR2D2 wrote: »

I hate recruiters as well. In fact, I'll never do work for TekSystems again since one recruiter with them that I was in contact with and looking to change jobs ended up talking to my current boss asking why I'd be looking to leave and that she had the perfect candidate to replace me with. That ended up being a very weird conversation that I had with the guy I reported to at that job and luckily a couple of weeks later I had an offer for a better FT role and left to end that weird job. I talked to her boss after that conversation and as far as I can tell she still works for them.

Wow, this story kind of makes me not want to work with any recruiters again.

MeanDrunkR2D2

MalwareMike wrote: »

Wow, this story kind of makes me not want to work with any recruiters again.

It makes me not want to do it either. Now I'll listen to a headhunter though as I know a few really good ones. They know that if it's not a direct hire or for an obscene amount of money I won't be for it.

kabooter

Well, has anyone got any advice for me?
I am getting lots of calls for infosec jobs but don't hear back from recruiters after submitting resume.
How do I make sure that recruiter actually does have a job and is not wasting time ?

LordQarlyn

kabooter wrote: »

Well, has anyone got any advice for me?
I am getting lots of calls for infosec jobs but don't hear back from recruiters after submitting resume.
How do I make sure that recruiter actually does have a job and is not wasting time ?

Just ask them point blank, "Is this for an actual job or are you just collecting resumes"? Observe their reaction.

kabooter

LordQarlyn wrote: »

Just ask them point blank, "Is this for an actual job or are you just collecting resumes"? Observe their reaction.

Well, some of the amateur may trip at the question but others are likely to lie through their teeth. it is quite a bit of work to tailor resume according to the job requirements and go through the nine yards so I am kinda getting tired of the relentless emails, linked in msgs, phone calls.
There has to be a better way of making sure that it is not a fake job. Perhaps ask for job requisition ID, see an actual job post?

DatabaseHead

paul78 wrote: »

LOL - not the first time TekSystems has negatively mentioned in these forums.

In seriousness though, references go both ways. I also do back-channel checks on the people that I work for. Usually, I'm looking for compatibility and the exec leadership work ethic, etc. I've always thought it was a good practice to check out a prospective employer.

Paul remember the one poster who put on their resume/linkedin Robert Half need not contact me. or something like that....

LordQarlyn

DatabaseHead wrote: »

Paul remember the one poster who put on their resume/linkedin Robert Half need not contact me. or something like that....

I've seen lots of people actually put on their profiles or CVs no staffing agencies at all, and lot of them were not even in IT so it's not just a problem with our sector. And Robert Half for me was a decent company, at the least they tried working with me, offering suggestions for my resume, spotting where I made stupid errors I overlooked, and one time they even coached me for interviews. Much more than I can say for any of the others especially TekSystems.

kabooter wrote: »

Well, some of the amateur may trip at the question but others are likely to lie through their teeth. it is quite a bit of work to tailor resume according to the job requirements and go through the nine yards so I am kinda getting tired of the relentless emails, linked in msgs, phone calls.
There has to be a better way of making sure that it is not a fake job. Perhaps ask for job requisition ID, see an actual job post?

They aren't likely to give out too much of the job details themselves, understandably, because their company only gets paid if they actually place someone (and they have to sell the company as a viable placement agency by, collecting resumes to show their "talent pool" lol). Otherwise, prospects will simply do and end run around them and get in touch with the company directly. That said, in my experience, when a recruiter mentioned a company name looking for the position, it seemed those times it was a real job they were trying to fill. You could ask for a description and try searching job boards and see if there is a position they want to fill, of course the recruiter may be (intentionally) vague, which itself should be a sign they are just collecting resumes.

FWIW I have no issue if a staffing agency wants to hold on to my resume for future use, it's when they are deceptive about it, making promises when they know there is no job, just to get my resume to use as a talent pool. As someone pointed out, a good recruiter can have a direct line to the hiring manager and knows how to market you.

kaiju

Throw in DoD 8570 requirements and you will experience another level of unnecessary frustration. I have had to educate more than a few recruiters on what certs meet 8570 requirements. I rarely apply for the position after having this conversation.

Donklander

kaiju wrote: »

Throw in DoD 8570 requirements and you will experience another level of unnecessary frustration. I have had to educate more than a few recruiters on what certs meet 8570 requirements. I rarely apply for the position after having this conversation.

The only reason why I'm not taking Sec+ off of the resume even though I have CISSP.

Panther

I hate recruiters.

--chris--

<---- I had a "good" experience with a recruiter landing me my current role, and even that one was not without problems caused by the recruiter. The recruiter kept telling me to A) stick to the compensation number I gave her (no problem) and

to not ask about benefits until after an offer has been made because it "really turns them off if you ask to many question around that until an offer is made". I figured that sounds reasonable, ok I can wait.

Offer is made, I then ask about benefits and it blows up. I am later forwarded an email sent to the recruiter asking why she would bring them a "problem child".

Recruiter meet BUS, under it you go..... I don't care if they have a "15 year" relationship with her. Its her fault, I am not covering for her. The hiring company immediately saw what happened, answered my questions and even revised the offer and resent it. I work there now, but man...that recruiter sure knows how to screw **** up.

In case anyone is interested, the questions were things like "How does PTO or vacation time work/how much/etc..." and "How are raises handled?".

tl;dr

Recruiters are your proxy, they will represent you however they want. Its a crap shoot.

Mooseboost

Had a great one today..

Recruiter calls, leaves voicemail about several "great fits" followed by an email. Per my normal routine, I email back and ask about job descriptions. I don't want to waste their or my time on the phone for things that do not even remotely fit. I get an email back saying that they cannot disclose this information and I must call them to chat. Mind you, I have contracted through his company before and I have worked with a handful of their recruiters to I can know their policies pretty well. Queue a quick search and behold - they have been a recruiter a total of 2 months.

Told them I didn't want to talk on the phone unless I knew there was a position that I would be a fit for and had interest in. That really ruffled their feathers.

Really recruiter... Really? No, I don't want to do a dance on the phone of introducing myself to you to find out you want someone with experience in a completely different field and you are offering a position that does not match up at all. If you don't really have a specific fit in mind, say that up front and say you just want to discuss my background and see if you have anything.

/endrant

For the record.. I wouldn't have been bothered by this if they had not acted completely offended by me telling them I didn't want to call unless I knew it was something I would be interested in.

Panther

Yup, that is recruiters ...

Recruiter: Let's touch base
Me: Okay, let's schedule something.
Recruiter: Crickets
Repeat again

Recruiter: I need references.
Me: I comply
Recruiter: Company suddenly rethinking position. WTF?
- And the recruiters now have and can bother my references.

Recruiter: I need references.
Me: I need to meet the hiring manger first.
Recruiter: Crickets

When you're new and looking for a job, you comply.
Recruiters are ***holes for that.
Luckily there are Career Advisers who post articles on the internet who help you; give you a back bone.

The second time a recruiter asked for references, advice I found was have them ante up, so I did.
- Let me meet the hiring manager first.
- Left me see if this is the real deal or not, or if you're just jerking me around.
Sure enough crickets.
And that heffer was selling the job like it was sure shot.
And I never heard from him again.

And it's just not recruiters who'll have you jump hoops.
The new thing is recorded video interview.
What kind of lazy ass sh*t is this?
I'm never doing that again.
I had one where I spent a lot time on it, and I got crickets.

DatabaseHead

It's a race to get the best applicant. Some agencies are evolving and doing their job to forge relationships with companies or subsets of companies and creating in-roads as the preferred vendor. In those cases you are set up good, but there is initial front end work done on the relationship side, but..... most of the recruiters I see like to throw turds at the wall and see if it sticks. Shotgun sales approach and it can work but is very hard on the candidates that don't work out. I personally think that method is trash and the people who go with it are equal.

scaredoftests

Really hate when they don't look at your resume. Just because I am in IT, doesn't make me a Java developer.

logisticalstyles

--chris-- wrote: »

to not ask about benefits until after an offer has been made because it "really turns them off if you ask to many question around that until an offer is made". I figured that sounds reasonable...

I've never considered that to be a reasonable request. Benefits are a part of the compensation. I had to learn the hard way that the very next question after salary needs to be about benefits. I took a job that paid a salary that was 12k more than my previous employer. Benefits were not discussed because the recruiter didn't want me to scare off the employer. That was a big mistake. My previous employer covered 85% of the insurance premiums. This employer covered none. I went from paying about $150 per paycheck for insurance for my family to $750 per check for insurance that wasn't even as good as my previous employers. I went from paying $3,900 a year for insurance to $19,500. I'm actually bringing home $7,500 less per year all because I didn't discuss insurance.

Kapital

logisticalstyles wrote: »

I've never considered that to be a reasonable request. Benefits are a part of the compensation. I had to learn the hard way that the very next question after salary needs to be about benefits. I took a job that paid a salary that was 12k more than my previous employer. Benefits were not discussed because the recruiter didn't want me to scare off the employer. That was a big mistake. My previous employer covered 85% of the insurance premiums. This employer covered none. I went from paying about $150 per paycheck for insurance for my family to $750 per check for insurance that wasn't even as good as my previous employers. I went from paying $3,900 a year for insurance to $19,500. I'm actually bringing home $7,500 less per year all because I didn't discuss insurance.

ouch! Thanks for sharing with us.

Basic85

logisticalstyles wrote: »

I've never considered that to be a reasonable request. Benefits are a part of the compensation. I had to learn the hard way that the very next question after salary needs to be about benefits. I took a job that paid a salary that was 12k more than my previous employer. Benefits were not discussed because the recruiter didn't want me to scare off the employer. That was a big mistake. My previous employer covered 85% of the insurance premiums. This employer covered none. I went from paying about $150 per paycheck for insurance for my family to $750 per check for insurance that wasn't even as good as my previous employers. I went from paying $3,900 a year for insurance to $19,500. I'm actually bringing home $7,500 less per year all because I didn't discuss insurance.

That was a huge red flag when the recruiter didn't want you to talk about benefits with the client! I've always wondered when should I ask about pay and benefits? The first interview? I'm concerned the employer might get upset because all I care about is money but that is the point of a job is to get paid.

--chris--

I was going through two recruiting processes at the time I accepted the offer from company B. The "bad" recruiter I described was an external agency, while company A had internal recruiters. The difference was night and day. The external agency was very focused on getting the company what they wanted and pushed back if I talked benefits or pay "until the time was right".

The internal recruiter was upfront on everything and told me a few times "I don't know, lets see what they say...ill get back to you" instead of BS'ing an answer.

Yesterday I had a recruiter reach out on linkedin, I declined but said I have a friend who lives in the city your looking to hire in and hes better qualified than me. Crickets....

Info_Sec_Wannabe

scaredoftests wrote: »

Really hate when they don't look at your resume. Just because I am in IT, doesn't make me a Java developer.

I get this a lot.

In my case, I only posted on LinkedIn the name of the company I've worked for (except the last two since I transferred to InfoSec), position / title and my certifications. Other than that, nothing, not even a career summary or a brief description of what I did in my previous jobs, yet I get messages recruiting for all sorts of positions. It makes me wonder on what grounds are they basing their invitations on?

They're just probably looking for some keywords and that's it.

LordQarlyn

scaredoftests wrote: »

Really hate when they don't look at your resume. Just because I am in IT, doesn't make me a Java developer.

LOL seriously, it seems I get contacted for almost every type of IT or developer job except the ones I am actually doing or qualified for, even after I stripped away superfluous terms.

Syntax

scaredoftests wrote: »

Really hate when they don't look at your resume. Just because I am in IT, doesn't make me a Java developer.

Right? Or, even better, when they contact you about a Tier 1 Desktop Support technician position paying $12.00 /hr when you have 10 years experience as a network engineer.

LordQarlyn

Syntax wrote: »

Right? Or, even better, when they contact you about a Tier 1 Desktop Support technician position paying $12.00 /hr when you have 10 years experience as a network engineer.

OMG that actually did happen to me recently! The recruiter who obviously didn't see IT Manager on my resume sent me an obvious generic email about how wonderful opportunity this help desk position would be and extolled all the benefits and the $13 hour wage lol. Took me a while to stop laughing before I sent a polite reply declining the "opportunity" and asking him to get back to me when a job more fitting to my current skills and experience becomes available.

scaredoftests

I get that a lot too. Very annoying.

MeanDrunkR2D2

Syntax wrote: »

Right? Or, even better, when they contact you about a Tier 1 Desktop Support technician position paying $12.00 /hr when you have 10 years experience as a network engineer.

Even better when it's also a 1099 role too!

--chris--

MeanDrunkR2D2 wrote: »

Even better when it's also a 1099 role too!

1099, 6 month contract, other side of the planet, for known-bad-company

JoJoCal19

--chris-- wrote: »

1099, 6 month contract, other side of the planet, for known-bad-company

THIS ^

kaiju

I applied for a job listed on a company's site. A couple days later a clueless recruiter sends me an email asking a bunch of really stupid questions that made it obvious that he had not read my application or viewed my resume. Straight to the trash bin after I got a few laughs.

Anonymouse

I don't know about you guys but I've had really good luck with recruiters who are local to me.

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