Disappointed with my salary after 1.5 years and a MCSE?!

ScottFern

Alright, I have been doing IT since September 2006 for a smaller credit card incentives company. I was hired on as "Systems Support" at their remote travel agency at 27k. Now, I admit I knew basically nothing coming into this job and it was a definite fluke I was basically given an entire LAN to administer. Yes, I was on my own from day one administering this site's entire LAN by myself. I have basically been in charge or anything and everything that plugs into the wall. I also manage 10 servers locally.

Here I am over a year and a half later with a MCSE:Security paid for by my company. I still have lots to learn but I am heaps and bounds more comfortable troubleshooting problems. At my first review I was given a 3k raise and approval of training to the tune of 7k. Now, I sit here at 30k/year and this great certification, but little satisfaction in my current salary. Yes, I appreciate the opportunity given to me by my employer, and no I cannot quit because I signed a 2 year contract saying I would not quit for 2 years and if I do I owe 7k within 12 months of quitting and 3.5k in 13-24 months of quitting.

My review isn't until September, but this salary is killing me and my gf is quitting her job soon, so I will be the sole rent payer come June.

In addition, by boss brought up the fact during my last review that the 7k training factored into my total compensation, and now he briefly mentioned that it may have an impact on my review this year which I think is totally unfair considering it played its role last year and should have no effect this coming review.

I have an idea of what I would like to make and I believe I am worth somewhere in the 36k-37k range come September. No?

jbaello

10 Servers, your an all around I.T. guy?

Seems like your position is Network Administrator, I.T. Support is more like an entry level that reports to someone like a System Administrator, Network Administrator in LA ball parks around 70 - 90 K, I.T. Support is around 45 - 60K...

jbaello

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

nel

Sounds like you are being paid entry level money which clearly isnt an entry level job. Just stick with it for the time being so you dont owe 7k! that is one of the reasons why i wouldnt sign a contract for training and just self study for my certs, unless i DEF knew i was going to stay there for that long.

What i would do is get as much experiance as possible, get more certs and try and get as much of a payrise as possible. and if its still not floating your boat then move on. and if you cant wait the two years you will have to bite the bullet and pay the cash back because once you have signed something like that i think its pretty binding.

one last things - and i mean no disrespect but i wouldnt allow your gf to quit her job if your going to be stuck for cash, tell her to stick with it until she can find something to go for then at least you wont have that cash deficit imo.

sprkymrk

jbaello wrote:

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

Then you may be standing your ground... in the unemployment line.
An MCSE does not guarentee you a huge salary. There may be another MCSE willing to take that 60K job you turned down.

ScottFern wrote:

I have an idea of what I would like to make and I believe I am worth somewhere in the 36k-37k range come September. No?

Scott, I think you are within your rights to ask for 36-37K. You can mention that it will not cost the company any more to employ you than it did last year if they give you a 7K raise. You have to decide what to do if they turn you down. Maybe meet in the middle? Shoot, just a cost of living increase should get you $1500.

If you can find another job that makes 10K more, you can afford to hand over the 3500 you owe.

snadam

ScottFern wrote:

Alright, I have been doing IT since September 2006 for a smaller credit card incentives company. I was hired on as "Systems Support" at their remote travel agency at 27k. Now, I admit I knew basically nothing coming into this job and it was a definite fluke I was basically given an entire LAN to administer. Yes, I was on my own from day one administering this site's entire LAN by myself. I have basically been in charge or anything and everything that plugs into the wall. I also manage 10 servers locally.

Here I am over a year and a half later with a MCSE:Security paid for by my company. I still have lots to learn but I am heaps and bounds more comfortable troubleshooting problems. At my first review I was given a 3k raise and approval of training to the tune of 7k. Now, I sit here at 30k/year and this great certification, but little satisfaction in my current salary. Yes, I appreciate the opportunity given to me by my employer, and no I cannot quit because I signed a 2 year contract saying I would not quit for 2 years and if I do I owe 7k within 12 months of quitting and 3.5k in 13-24 months of quitting.

My review isn't until September, but this salary is killing me and my gf is quitting her job soon, so I will be the sole rent payer come June.

In addition, by boss brought up the fact during my last review that the 7k training factored into my total compensation, and now he briefly mentioned that it may have an impact on my review this year which I think is totally unfair considering it played its role last year and should have no effect this coming review.

I have an idea of what I would like to make and I believe I am worth somewhere in the 36k-37k range come September. No?

from your description, your getting the raw end of the deal. If they paid for your education, I can see why they had you sign a 'no-quit' contract with penalties. However, that shouldnt mean they get to abuse it and not compensate you. Im not sure about the chicago are for base salary; but based on your job description/experience/credentials, Id say at least $50k is reasonable. But again, Im not sure how it goes in your area.

justin42279

Since you signed the contract, I think most of your options are limited. Quit and pay back the money, or live with it. I'm one of those that can see it from a companies standpoint. They did give you your break and paid for training. For that, you owe them 2 years. I'm with Nel, i always self study rather than be indebted to a company.

My suggestion to you is, if the sallery doesn't meet your needs, ask for a little more but don't expect much. Until you are through with your 2 years, study everything you can and improve your skills. When your contract expires, then it is time to renegotiate and you have a little bit more power. A, they can negotiate for a reasonable pay, or B, they can retrain someone. Unfortunately, it's always been my experience that if you want a major jump in pay, it requires finding a new company.

sthomas

jbaello wrote:

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

Usually a salary like that comes from experience not from having MCSE alone.

Sie

Sounds like a difficult situation but not one that your in alone, other people are in the smae boat.

Asking for a raise in the correct way cannot hurt, mind I said the correct way here, demanding one or stating "Pay me more or I will leave" wont end up very good.

What you do have as an added extra however is the payment for training which shouldnt be over looked.

You may be over worked and under paid but alot of people would kill to be in your position and to be gaining the experience and knowledge you are, so what you need to think of is:

Do you get job satisfaction from your current position?

Do you require the pay rise? Or would it just be nice?

ScottFern

Sie wrote:

Do you get job satisfaction from your current position?

Do you require the pay rise? Or would it just be nice?

Believe it or not but my boss is a pretty nice guy. I am definitely underpaid, but I am in that awkward position of having little experience, but I do possess an MCSE. I am getting satisfaction in my job but it comes in bursts because some days I don't do much and others I am working until 7pm.

I require a pay raise for cost of living, no one in their right mind can live off 30k in the Chicago Suburbs. I think I am very rational and realistic in my 37k value, but I don't know if my boss is.

What makes this situation even more difficult is that I am getting tons of experience most help desk guys aren't. I basically run the show down here on less than 2 years in the field. Now, my boss has used language that suggested he likes my skill set and believes he will use me in ever greater capacity in the coming years. Our company is looking to break out this year and really expand our operations which is going to require changes and additions to our IT infrastructure. But once again I want to explain to him in a diplomatic way the salary isn't keeping me here, its the contract!

stlsmoore

Yea dude for the experience you have and the training I think you should be making at least 60k especially since you're in the Chicago area. I don't have near the experience as you and I'm in the St. Louis area which is twice as less expensive but I make the same salary with an entry level IT job. I really don't know how you survive on 30k in Chicago but maybe it's not as expensive as everyone tells me I dunno.

jbaello

sprkymrk wrote:

jbaello wrote:

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

Then you may be standing your ground... in the unemployment line.
An MCSE does not guarentee you a huge salary. There may be another MCSE willing to take that 60K job you turned down.

jbaello wrote:

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

I don't think I would turn down job offers, when I currently don't have a job, this is more when I'm leaving another employment, to move for a better one, since the O.P. mentioned plans of quitting.

O.P. please don't quote me on this, there's different criteria and factors to consider when negotiating with salary, such as experience locations etc. and I singled out myself with a past experience.

http://techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30605

Generally speaking Sprky is right, negotiating while the economy is in bad shape, is not the smartest thing to do, I guess I rushed myself in posting something I did not analyze, for that I apologize.

What I meant is when there's is an "option" for another opportunity, I would basically look for the something that will best fit my requirements.

ScottFern

I admit the economy is ever declining but that is no reason to take advantage of me, and I am worth around 37k. I just don't get how they can lowball me and tell me they paid 7k for training and that it affects my salary increase.

jbaello

ScottFern wrote:

I admit the economy is ever declining but that is no reason to take advantage of me, and I am worth around 37k. I just don't get how they can lowball me and tell me they paid 7k for training and that it affects my salary increase.

I agree with you, perhaps the reason I kinda replied compulsively, I believe Chi is a pretty expensve city?

I wish you luck on this matter...

blargoe

For some reason I'm thinking the folks chiming in with 50k, 75k, etc., are either not employed or do not currently hold this kind of a position.

You are very limited in IT experience and you signed a contract, those are your limiting factors.

However, the KIND of experience you are getting, compared to other entry level engineers, is GREAT. I think you have not lost sight of that, which is good for you. I think some people undervalue having access to the kind of training that you have undoubtedly received - 1) a window of time set aside from work distractions and home life distractions that would be an issue that if you tried to self-study; 2) depending on the quality of the training center you attended you had direct access to a subject matter expert and probably still have access to communicate with him or her if you have questions. Also, you can't beat being "the guy" in an environment like this when you are looking for that next step to take out there in the industry.

30k does seem low for your position, even with the 7k in training incentives tacked on. But what would you be making if you were doing the helpdesk thing like the rest of the entry level candidates? About the same probably. Are you worth more? Yes, probably. But I think you are on a faster track to move up than any of those people.

How you approach this depends on the other intangibles you have going on there. Salary aside, what is the satisfaction you have with this job? If you truly do enjoy the people and the environment, make sure you make that clear when you are mentioning your upcoming financial struggles and your view that the low end of what you are worth is higher than what they are paying you.

Worst case, you work your contract and get a similar job making more money. I don't think you are quite in a position to land a great paying sysadmin job yet just because of the lack of experience. But nothing is stopping you from looking IMO. If you happened to find a 50k job, you could have that penalty paid off in a year.

sprkymrk

jbaello wrote:

I guess I rushed myself in posting something I did not analyze, for that I apologize.

What I meant is when there's is an "option" for another opportunity, I would basically look for the something that will best fit my requirements.

No apology necessary, I agree with your statement above.

ScottFern wrote:

I admit the economy is ever declining but that is no reason to take advantage of me, and I am worth around 37k. I just don't get how they can lowball me and tell me they paid 7k for training and that it affects my salary increase.

Yes, you are worth 37K and I hope you can make them see that. What burb are you in if I may ask? I lived in the Chicago suburbs for about 10 years - from Hinsdale to Chicago Heights to St Charles. I've worked in many others. Graduated HS in St Charles as a matter of fact. Even went to ECC for a while. I still consider Chicago "home" even though I spent 14 years in Iowa and now 4 years here in SC.

sprkymrk

blargoe wrote:

For some reason I'm thinking the folks chiming in with 50k, 75k, etc., are either not employed or do not currently hold this kind of a position.

You are very limited in IT experience and you signed a contract, those are your limiting factors.

However, the KIND of experience you are getting, compared to other entry level engineers, is GREAT. I think you have not lost sight of that, which is good for you. I think some people undervalue having access to the kind of training that you have undoubtedly received - 1) a window of time set aside from work distractions and home life distractions that would be an issue that if you tried to self-study; 2) depending on the quality of the training center you attended you had direct access to a subject matter expert and probably still have access to communicate with him or her if you have questions. Also, you can't beat being "the guy" in an environment like this when you are looking for that next step to take out there in the industry.

30k does seem low for your position, even with the 7k in training incentives tacked on. But what would you be making if you were doing the helpdesk thing like the rest of the entry level candidates? About the same probably. Are you worth more? Yes, probably. But I think you are on a faster track to move up than any of those people.

How you approach this depends on the other intangibles you have going on there. Salary aside, what is the satisfaction you have with this job? If you truly do enjoy the people and the environment, make sure you make that clear when you are mentioning your upcoming financial struggles and your view that the low end of what you are worth is higher than what they are paying you.

Worst case, you work your contract and get a similar job making more money. I don't think you are quite in a position to land a great paying sysadmin job yet just because of the lack of experience. But nothing is stopping you from looking IMO. If you happened to find a 50k job, you could have that penalty paid off in a year.

Blargoe, if you had posted this earlier you would have saved me some typing, because all I would have done is say:

+1

Smallguy

Scott I think you've gotten some great advice from many of the posters here

When asking for a raise do not forget about your benefits like extra vacation, ability to work from home (there was a really good thread about this last week)... these do not really cost the company anything but make your life better. these are often easier to get than a dollar figure

also make sure you are able to sell yourself... explain the benefits of them having someone with your skillset around... like you are not contracting out work because you can do it , where as some do not have the skills and would have to bring in contractors to do portions of their jobs.

they had a server issue you fixed in X hours that would have cost them Y is you couldn't fix it yourself

show them how you are actually saving them money where you can


then decide how much of an increase you actually need versus how much you want

one thing to also keep in mind is your always battling with the company wanting to keep costs low and you wanting more money it's a fact of life no matter where you work really. Yuor very rarely going to both be happy.

never forget to honestly evaluate yourself as someone who doesn't know you from anyone else walking in off the street and how valuable would they see you. I can honestly say that some employers would be weary given your cert level and experience not. I do not want that to come off as an ass but in all honesty I'm sure some hiring managers would wonder if your really that good and worked that hard or if you really earned it.

Never make a threat your not willing to accept then and there I've seen many a people say if i don't get X I'm leaving think they were the cock of the walk and have their boss say it was nice knowing you turn in your company equipment and have a nice life and be shocked saying they don;t mean it only to have their boss tell them we don;t respond to threats. so be very tactful with how you word things

and as one poster already mentioned if your Gf is quitting in putting both of you even more behind the 8 ball there better be a damn good reason

snadam

blargoe wrote:

For some reason I'm thinking the folks chiming in with 50k, 75k, etc., are either not employed or do not currently hold this kind of a position.

blargoe, if you were referring to me, then you thought wrong. I'm employed and I hold a similar position ('everything admin') in my company as he does his company. It doesn't hurt to ask for a higher number when negotiating salary. Chances are they are going to try and low ball you anyway.

Im not trying to pick a fight; just trying to explain where Im coming from. Other than that, I completely agree with the rest of your post.

remyforbes777

You are probably worth anywhere from 45-55K. I would find a job with that as your salary requirement, and pay back the 7K. You still come out ahead.

royal

Aim high during negotiation. I was in your situation a few years ago when I came aboard with very little experience. I signed up with a contract and they gave me all the material I needed to become MCSE, which includes the full CBT Nuggets library, endless books, consulting training, and to work alongside our company's engineers, senior engineers, and architects.

I worked my ass off, proved myself, read more books than I had to, and got great reviews from the engineers I worked with. When I became an engineer at my company, I was thinking of asking for a figure lower than what I really wanted. After talking to a couple of my buddies, they convinced me to ask for the number I wanted. I wrote a concise e-mail detailing what my goals were during training, how I met them, and how I exceeded them and wrote out a list of what exactly I had done.

I then asked for the amount I wanted, and they complied due to "my work ethics" they stated and how much work I did during the program. I received more than $20,000 raise.

What I am trying to say is, work hard, stay organized, have a good work ethic, and your company won't want to lose you and will give you the salary you deserve.

ITNYC

ScottFern wrote:

Alright, I have been doing IT since September 2006 for a smaller credit card incentives company. I was hired on as "Systems Support" at their remote travel agency at 27k. Now, I admit I knew basically nothing coming into this job and it was a definite fluke I was basically given an entire LAN to administer. Yes, I was on my own from day one administering this site's entire LAN by myself. I have basically been in charge or anything and everything that plugs into the wall. I also manage 10 servers locally.

Here I am over a year and a half later with a MCSE:Security paid for by my company. I still have lots to learn but I am heaps and bounds more comfortable troubleshooting problems. At my first review I was given a 3k raise and approval of training to the tune of 7k. Now, I sit here at 30k/year and this great certification, but little satisfaction in my current salary. Yes, I appreciate the opportunity given to me by my employer, and no I cannot quit because I signed a 2 year contract saying I would not quit for 2 years and if I do I owe 7k within 12 months of quitting and 3.5k in 13-24 months of quitting.

My review isn't until September, but this salary is killing me and my gf is quitting her job soon, so I will be the sole rent payer come June.

In addition, by boss brought up the fact during my last review that the 7k training factored into my total compensation, and now he briefly mentioned that it may have an impact on my review this year which I think is totally unfair considering it played its role last year and should have no effect this coming review.

I have an idea of what I would like to make and I believe I am worth somewhere in the 36k-37k range come September. No?

Hey Scott, I know how you feel and sometimes you need to take a step back and analyze the situation as a whole. I know it sucks when you do your job well but get paid like a chump. My advice is to try and get through your contract but at the same time prepare yourself by learning new things, get another cert in the meantime and beef up your resume towards the end of your contract. The experience your getting is great and you need to think about the big picture, which would be... experience+Certs=better future Pay. From my own experience, you cant go from point A to Point C. I hated my situation couple years ago. Working on all kinds of servers, Setting up Racks, Server installations, Blade Centers/Servers, Mac's etc... all for the great price of a $24K salary.. Ha. But bite your lip and take a deep breath and realize the situation is not forever and will lead to better things

cisco_trooper

I recommend you quit the day after your 2 year mark. They have you by the balls and they know it. While I would be pretty ticked, don't forget that they GAVE you experience that a lot of MCSEs do NOT have. Once you quit, you should be good to go. Don't expect them to pay up because they simply do not have to.

HeroPsycho

Look, don't take it personally. They know EXACTLY what they're doing. They underpaid to get someone with no experience who might be able to do the job for peanuts. They used you for your ability to learn and do what they needed. You used them to get experience.

Play it like the game that it is.

If you can find another job that allows you to pay that money back to them and you get better experience, leave.

If you want, go ahead and ask for the raise in the meantime. Look, it hurts THEM if they don't pay you more because you're gonna leave, and they'll be right back where they were, hiring someone who can't do the job at first and who can hopefully learn because for them, it's all about keeping costs low.

Truthfully, they're not gonna be able to pay you what you're worth. That's why they gave you the job over someone more experienced in the first place because no one with experience would have accepted that job for 30K.

Realize who you're working for, and don't take it personally if they choose to not pay you what you should be paid. You should have already known this was gonna happen. You did the absolute right thing to take the job because the experience is invaluable for your career. The money they're gonna force you to pay back is minuscule compared to the jump in salary you should be able to command on the open market.

Also, learn that in this field, typically speaking, you make your money coming in the door, not by staying at a company. It's unfortunate, but true.

Daniel333

Weak!

Reminds me of something my boss told me to tell my high up boss.

Don't ask for a raise. Ask for a "career path plan" and schedule a meeting. Make sure you supply them with an expectations prior to the meeting, including a raise as well as $$ support toward bettering your education and of course detailed solid numbers of the your work and performance, improvements and solid numbers of how you can continue to improve. (not just maintain) Managers love graphs and drawn conclusions based on their facts.

liven

sthomas wrote:

jbaello wrote:

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

Usually a salary like that comes from experience not from having MCSE alone.

+1,

been in the industry for 8 years, and I have A LOT of experience and I don't make that much. And I consider my self to have have a good job. I also consider myself lucky to have the job that I have. Hopefully I will make 70k plus in the next year or two. But like I said I been doing this a while.

liven

sprkymrk wrote:

jbaello wrote:

With an MCSE I expect myself to make over 70 - 75 K depends on the benefits, and I will stand my ground...

Then you may be standing your ground... in the unemployment line.
An MCSE does not guarentee you a huge salary. There may be another MCSE willing to take that 60K job you turned down.

ScottFern wrote:

I have an idea of what I would like to make and I believe I am worth somewhere in the 36k-37k range come September. No?

Scott, I think you are within your rights to ask for 36-37K. You can mention that it will not cost the company any more to employ you than it did last year if they give you a 7K raise. You have to decide what to do if they turn you down. Maybe meet in the middle? Shoot, just a cost of living increase should get you $1500.

If you can find another job that makes 10K more, you can afford to hand over the 3500 you owe.

BUMP BUMP.

Look your getting experience. It takes time. When this contract is over you will most definately get a job making more money.

If you can't wait then look for something better, and when you find that right fit cut your ties with the current employer. Sure you will have to pay some money to get out of the contract. But if you get this big salary increase your looking for you will be able to afford it.

blargoe

I like the "career path plan" idea.

When you started with this company, they started you out at what you were realistically worth in all honesty. They were smart enough to get you on a contract designed to hold you there. At least (as has been mentioned before) you are getting an accelerated start to real-world SYSADMIN level experience.

If they decide in a little while they need to pay you more to keep you there, then it could be a win for all involved. It's probably the higher-up people than your manager that are controlling how much of a raise you get. It's usually a percentage increase thing. For you, a 7k raise is almost a 25% increase. Typical yearly increases run 2-5% depending on different factors.

ScottFern

Wow, I must say I am shocked by all the comments! I was not expecting this amount of advice, but its great. For the person who asked earlier, my company's corporate office is in Naperville, and I work near Midway Airport at the travel agency.

Now, I do work with a Network Admin who works at the Naperville office on things that are over my head, but he isn't always available or a willing teacher.

Now, I deal directly with the CIO even though I do have a technology managers she isn't involved in my job too much. But I understand even my CIO has to give raises that the CFO approves. My boss has said many times that he thinks I can advance very quickly, but I am not sure he gets the whole salary part. We shall see.


I think I am going to just bite my lip for 6 months and see what happens. Lots of infrastructure changes are going in down here for backups and new services so there will be plenty to do in those 6 months. I may even build a child domain because right now the travel domain and the corporate domain are separate.

sprkymrk

ScottFern wrote:

For the person who asked earlier, my company's corporate office is in Naperville, and I work near Midway Airport at the travel agency.

Yup, that's like my old backyard. I still have friends and a sister (and her family) that live in Aurora and Naperville. I lived there back when you could still use Fermilab as a shortcut to the mall. And just for the record - 30k is not enough to live on decently in that area. I hope they see fit to give you a decent raise.

Goldmember

royal wrote:

What I am trying to say is, work hard, stay organized, have a good work ethic, and your company won't want to lose you and will give you the salary you deserve.

Are you working for Disneyland? haha

just kidding