novell.....why?

srcurrie

FYI on usage: I am an administrator for a K12 in Upstate New York. There is a lot of Netware 6 and 6.5 around here. I have 7 NW6 and 1 NW6.5OES servers here. Many K12s in our area of the state are still using Netware.
However we are migrating to Novell SLES 10.1 and all of those Netware Servers will be SLES.
I should point out that a Novell Linux Server has all the management tools and an NSS filesystem just like any Netware server and it looks the same to the end-user.
Novell rocks.

petedude

Kasor wrote:

Novell is a great NOS... If you look at their edirectory and AD... a lot of function you see at AD are from Novell, specially those concept of the one login...

Also, Novell was very popular back then, but it went down very quick after Bill clean up the house. Now, every company is a "MS house"

Not EVERY house. There are still some NetWare hold-outs, and some other smart folks looking at options like Linux, Solaris and OS X Server. I think M$ has done a lot to make their sell more difficult over the last couple years, thus the options are starting to look more appealing.

Jaqmar2001

Wow, after reading most of these replies, I am very impressed with people's qualifications. I am absolutely speechless. Every time I read somebody's profile and qualification, it motivates me even more to study, to just get in there and go for it (currently studying MCDST). Yeah, I have a long way to go.

In 1999/2000, I attended Novell courses in South Africa. I passed the first subject (CNA) and could not continue due to the high costs of exams. Now living in the UK, it's a little bit more affordable. I am currently stuck in a job that frustrates me, so I decided to start studying IT again. So, here I am starting all over again.

My question is, which of the two, Novell or Microsoft are more popular in the UK? Which of the two does most companies use in the UK? Is that a fair question or, is Novell really on their way back?

Martin.

Turgon

Jaqmar2001 wrote:

Wow, after reading most of these replies, I am very impressed with people's qualifications. I am absolutely speechless. Every time I read somebody's profile and qualification, it motivates me even more to study, to just get in there and go for it (currently studying MCDST). Yeah, I have a long way to go.

In 1999/2000, I attended Novell courses in South Africa. I passed the first subject (CNA) and could not continue due to the high costs of exams. Now living in the UK, it's a little bit more affordable. I am currently stuck in a job that frustrates me, so I decided to start studying IT again. So, here I am starting all over again.

My question is, which of the two, Novell or Microsoft are more popular in the UK? Which of the two does most companies use in the UK? Is that a fair question or, is Novell really on their way back?

Martin.

MS is used more than Novell in the UK but you will still find many shops using Novell.

Ye Gum Noki

Novell's major problem THEN more than now was/is they have NO idea how to market themselves. Netware was ALWAYS better than NT as a NOS. Through Ihaven't used it in years, I would imagine it still is.

Hey... ever seen a Novell commercial? Me neither.... but I did see a single ad once in a NatGeo... back in the late 90s.

Mr. Ye

dales

Cant really add to much more to what anyone says here, I only manage 300 users across 2 sites, nw6.5. However the main show stopper for me with nw is that whenever you look into buying new products ( either off the shelf or bespoke) we have to tell them that we dont use AD so theres no microsoft client installed on any pc etc etc. This normally results in alot of scratching of heads from the company you can see them thinking "NO active directory, but what else is there!!??" Alot of products you look into rely on standard microsoft ways of doing things so it is a constant battle to get the working product shoehorned into a netware environment.

I do think netware is a great product and linux has a definate chance over the next few years but I am concerntrating my studies on MS products because at the moment thats what the majority of employers want. As I've supported netware in this job I dont think a cert is top priority as not many people have had current exposure to netware so if the next employer happens to use netware then my experience will properbly put me above those others who have not used it in the wild.

bradtechonline

I manage a Netware 6/NT 4.0 hybrid domain which is moving over to Windows 2008 Server.. I got into the ball game with Windows 2000 Server with very little experience with NT but a lot of experience with client operating systems prior to that era.

I can honestly say that my impression about Novell is this.. It was good for it's time but I do not like working in Consoleone, and having to use centralix linx to throw newly created users into their contexts..

Things are a lot easier to manage in Active Directory Users, and Computers. I know Windows Server, and how it works.. The way Novell has modules created by everyone and their dog is kind of odd..

I think Novell is doing a good thing throwing in with SuSE.. If I were in my 30s or 40s I would probably be a big Novell guy because it was more widely used back then. When I got out of HS, and knew I wanted to work in IT I wanted to do the CNE, and was advised to go down the Microsoft route.

I can say that has been a better time investment since this is mainly the only place I've ran into that uses Netware.. It wasn't hard to pick up. To each his own..

Kasor

Novell SUSE rock.......................

Just went to the GroupWise 8 Power User training. Awesome feature and functions..

Turgon

bradtechonline wrote: »

I manage a Netware 6/NT 4.0 hybrid domain which is moving over to Windows 2008 Server.. I got into the ball game with Windows 2000 Server with very little experience with NT but a lot of experience with client operating systems prior to that era.

I can honestly say that my impression about Novell is this.. It was good for it's time but I do not like working in Consoleone, and having to use centralix linx to throw newly created users into their contexts..

Things are a lot easier to manage in Active Directory Users, and Computers. I know Windows Server, and how it works.. The way Novell has modules created by everyone and their dog is kind of odd..

I think Novell is doing a good thing throwing in with SuSE.. If I were in my 30s or 40s I would probably be a big Novell guy because it was more widely used back then. When I got out of HS, and knew I wanted to work in IT I wanted to do the CNE, and was advised to go down the Microsoft route.

I can say that has been a better time investment since this is mainly the only place I've ran into that uses Netware.. It wasn't hard to pick up. To each his own..

They are still using NT at your shop then? I figured it would still be lurking somewhere.

Turgon

Kasor wrote: »

Novell SUSE rock.......................

Just went to the GroupWise 8 Power User training. Awesome feature and functions..

That's great Kasor. Novell sent me an invite to a Groupwise 8 shindig but couldn't make it. I hope to gather up on Novell's latest offerings at the end of 2009. Tell us about the features of GW8 that impressed you.

Kasor

I got a gift from the seminar, a crystal style brick with "Official GroupWise 8 Power User." Awesome...

rwwest7

Why all the bragging about how Netware "never needs rebooted". In the three years at my current job our Server 2003 boxes have only been shut down to relocate physically or because of extended power outages. Rock solid.

Turgon

rwwest7 wrote: »

Why all the bragging about how Netware "never needs rebooted". In the three years at my current job our Server 2003 boxes have only been shut down to relocate physically or because of extended power outages. Rock solid.

I don't know about bragging but so far as MCSE and CNE goes I have both certs and have supported each platform in my time so have some context comparing the two. Historically Novell servers were rock solid compared to MS servers. 2331 days uptime is extreme but an indication of this sort of thing with Netware servers is here.

Cool Solutions: NetWare Server Uptime Contest Winners

MS servers have improved no doubt but uptime of Netware servers has been a feature for many years.

malcybood

Kasor wrote: »

I got a gift from the seminar, a crystal style brick with "Official GroupWise 8 Power User." Awesome...

Free gifts are great, I got a mini usb powered digital photo frame when I went to an F5 Networks user group.

I have never actually used it but still a nifty little thing for free!

boostinbadger

No one has mentioned that you can use significantly fewer servers when using Novell than when using MS as a NOS.

Kasor

Novell OLES is a good SVR. I believe it is much better than MS product. It is a Linux... U know and with VM on top of the SVR. You can do whatever consolidation you want.

Turgon

Kasor wrote: »

Novell OLES is a good SVR. I believe it is much better than MS product. It is a Linux... U know and with VM on top of the SVR. You can do whatever consolidation you want.

I agree and next year I will be making headway with Linux/Unix training by investing in Novell's training offerings. From what I can see it's as good if not better than anything else out there. Novell have been working hard on linux platform and training offerings for a few years now and they look pretty comprehensive to me. With the practicum and a fair few years of doing Linux training with the CLP qualification under their belts as well as all the various OLES/VM developments coming out of Novell their training offerings for Enterprise Linux look a winner so far as I can see.

Cosmocat

In Sweden around 70% of the counties (communes) use Novell Netware and also large sections of the state. Of course Microsoft is involved in many cases (a mail server or maybe SQL) but still many old versions of Novell Netware are out there. I don't know about the rest of Europe but I suppose it's a lot of Novell Netware out there.

The tendency now is that the counties (communes) either must strictly go over to Microsoft or pick Linux because an upgrade is a must sooner or later to take advantage of new technology. SUSE was purchased by Novell some years ago and it's a much better stratgey to move over to SUSE than Microsoft because Microsoft is WAY MORE expensive (also other technical reasons). But I bet there still we be old Netware systems around for a very long time. And as for Microsoft....they are loosing more and more market because of Linux and Novell's Linux/Netware implementations. Time will tell.....

twodogs62

Just like Apple. Several years back people thought Apple was dead.
Novell still has good products and is hanging in there. I saw a presentation last week and Novell has actually picked up some of the Linux market.
Most of moves to Active Directory and thus Windows seem to be due to Applications requiring Active Directory. SQL databases.

Turgon

Novell rocks. I checked the certification site this week and it looks like I can get the NCE with just two exams because Im already a CNE in Netware 6. This would give me the Linux implementation and integration qualification that has been on the backburner but at the same time actually using the platform for something..Netware.

For me that gives me the Linux/Unix footprint I wanted in terms of training and certification. Its been years since I worked with Solaris and it would be good to get into the bash again.

2 x Novell Study Kits and I will be set. Its on the radar this year.

Ryan82

Interesting, I actually thought Novell didn't exist anymore as I haven't seen it in 10 years since I was in high school. I can't imagine I will find the free time to try and learn it unless I happen to stumble across a job that requires me to know it.

Turgon

Ryan82 wrote: »

Interesting, I actually thought Novell didn't exist anymore as I haven't seen it in 10 years since I was in high school. I can't imagine I will find the free time to try and learn it unless I happen to stumble across a job that requires me to know it.

Novell is still used a lot and in someplaces preferred as the NOS to tie everything together from a secure accounts file and print perspective while still using MS products like Exchange and SQL server. Generally you find that Novell has been there years in such organisations with it remaining at the centre with MS taking over the desktop arena. Often groupwise is the email system of choice in these places.

In my opinion its useful for ambitious MS candidates to at least study for the CNA as it could be a deal winner when applying for jobs that have Novell bedded in. Aside from that, studying the two affords the engineer comparisons that can only be made by studying two tracks. It makes you more balanced. Historically circa 1996 - 2001 we saw many people cross training from Novell to Microsoft or the other way around. The landscape then was Novell more or less everywhere but diminishing as Microsoft NT Server bedded in. A lot of migration work was going on. At the same time many companies were staying with Novell and upgrading to Netware 4.1, 5 or even 6 prefering it's edirectory over Active Directory. So we saw a lot of engineers with MCSE and CNE. For an extra couple of tests you could be MCNE but the option has gone now since the MCNE was retired in 2007.

If you wish to work for an integrator as opposed to being an admin, having Novell certification could be very helpful as there is still a lot of it out there and they do some good products. In terms of hiring many recruiters had a higher opinion of CNE over MCSE as the Novell track encorporated more networking and server hardware awareness, and the testing of internet capabilities and NDS design was stronger. The CNE was more server and administration centric than the MCSE NT track. The networking fundamentals test was certainly better than MCSE's network essentials, and the CNE used to offer 'Service and Support' which MCSE did not. Service and Support is now encorporated into the latest exams for CNE. One of the failings of the MCSE in NT (of which there were many) was you could pass the exam by avoiding the elective 'Internetworking with TCP/IP', this was a serious flaw and left many candidates clueless once in the field. Another problem was the MCSE+I track which was weak in training MSCE's in real internet facing capabilities of the products and administration. I know one MCSE+I who was left feeling disappointed about the whole process to get it as it didn't give her the insights she was hoping for in terms of education about the internet and how to leverage it for NT server. The biggest failing of the MCSE in NT was it was young and as a consequence had less to leverage as compared to the CNE track which was well established with years of feedback from an admin community. So you were learning a lot about things you wouldn't use like software RAID (everyone used Compaq Hardware RAID controllers). At the sametime what was taught was mostly set it and forget it..no real training in login scripts and general admin duties. You could set the domain up, but how then to use it? Issues with authentication being flung across the WAN to PDC instead of using a LAN based BDC plagued many NT deployments as the registry hacks for the desktops (load balance parameter) were not taught. Similarly the training for profiles and outlook wasn't covered very well. The CNE was much stronger on admin type training.

Do both tracks.

Kasor

I guess nobody really going after Novell anymore. So quiet..

Turgon

Kasor wrote: »

I guess nobody really going after Novell anymore. So quiet..

hehehe..not many. The shops still using it have timeserved CNEs these days. I find Novell sprinkled in a few shops but mainly for niche applications or appliances like Sentinel. Netware is no longer a greenfield file and print option for most organisations.

Chivalry1

I am still finding a lot of SUSE Linux Enterprise systems still being utilized in the corporate environments. For linux distributions SUSE Enterprise is still a good buy and truely easy to administrate. I cant say what the future holds for SUSE Enterprise, but wont count them out.


**Apart of the http://www.novell.com/linux/ fan club**

Pishof

Many Indiana school corporations are having a mass exodus this year from Netware to Microsoft Server 2008 R2. Academic pricing with Microsoft now just kicks Novell's ass.

shambeaus

Pishof wrote: »

Academic pricing with Microsoft now just kicks Novell's ass.

Care to elaborate on the details of this?

exampasser

My local community college still uses Novell Netware.

Turgon

exampasser wrote: »

My local community college still uses Novell Netware.

A number of places still do. That's why I advocate that people at least get the CNA if they are job hunting.

Turgon

Final post on Novell.

Great products, superb technologists. Shafted by bad management and marketing who made money and destroyed a bright company. A damn shame. Miles ahead of MS technically but I think the management got too big and fat and the company was ruined and the 'best' technology was passed over thanks to inadequate people collecting money at Novell and not pushing for changes that would have taken them into the lead.

Equation..stay silent and collect money, or make a fuss and incur risk to career prospects as well as cost and risk to Novell to do marketing properly to grab the market that was out there for the taking..

They took the easy option, incurred no cost by championing a change in strategy, took the salary and let MS and an inferior product kill them.


Advice to technologists..follow the commercial/strategic track as soon as you can.

Year X - egg head working on boxes..respected.
Year Y - egg head working on boxes..ignored.

Not exactly a revelation, check the industrial revolution in England in the 1800's. Back then, engineers ruled..later..ignored.

Engineers make the world work..managers and money men rule the world.