Advancing my career

vCole

Hello TechExam Members

I need a little advice from all of you.

Currently I attend a Community College and Work full time in IT. (Doing help desk now, and then they want me to do application support )

I want more of a Systems Engineer/System Administrator position.
Mostly positions call for a B.S. or MBA.

I will be finishing up my MCSA by the end of this month/early next month. (then on to MCSE).

But what I'm more concerned about it college. I would like to get my Bachelor's ASAP.

I've read about online colleges such as Kaplan and W.G.U., but how do these schools measure up? Or should I keep plugging away taking 2-3 classes at the community college?

Any input is appreciated, as I really want to get out of help desk! (a year 1/2 is far too long! )

Paul Boz

I would also like to wrap up my B.A. but have neither the time nor the money. I have around 60 hours at LSU towards a history degree and just don't see how paying the money to finish said degree will benefit me beyond having the BA on my resume.

What are you studying?

vCole

Paul Boz wrote: »

I would also like to wrap up my B.A. but have neither the time nor the money. I have around 60 hours at LSU towards a history degree and just don't see how paying the money to finish said degree will benefit me beyond having the BA on my resume.

What are you studying?

My A.A.S. is in IT Support..

I'm going to change it to Networking. But I only have 15 credits...

Forsaken_GA

Any job requiring an MBA for a hands on tech position is either overly optimistic or needs to have some educating done.

For a system administrator, the ability to do the job counts far more than a degree. That being said... Once you get out of school, it isn't but a few years down the road that you miss it and wish you could go back.

I wouldn't be in such a rush to get out of school, especially with a down economy. Now is the time to build skills, because a newly minted graduate with some letters on their resume is in for a rude awakening if they expect a big paycheck.

My advice would be to continue your education, continue your certs, but all the while keep your eye open for any job opportunities, and if you find them, apply, worst they can tell you is no or nothing at all. Since you're going into the MS world, I'd focus your elective exams towards things which are in demand.

LarryDaMan

I recommend finishing your first 2 years (60 credits) at the community college. Community colleges are usually more flexible and almost always cheaper. Make sure that your credits will transfer and start looking ahead to which 4-year school you will transfer to.

120 credits at 4-year school = 60 transfer credits + 60 credits at a 4-year school

With all the money saved, you can buy a new car

shednik

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Any job requiring an MBA for a hands on tech position is either overly optimistic or needs to have some educating done.

I couldn't disagree with you more...an MBA in ANY position in a corporate environment can be beneficial. An MBA will give you alot of great knowledge in management and business that can be applied to any job. Most positions I see today require a BS/BA with x amount of experience, an MS with a little less experience, or another number of just experience.

Anyways Fade I would recommend to keep moving the way you are now. How many classes are you taking a semester? Once you finish the Associates I would look to see if any schools around you offer accelerated BS programs. My recommendation would be to keep at it like you are for sure, there are ways to move out of helpdesk without a degree just takes time unfortunately.

vCole

shednik wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with you more...an MBA in ANY position in a corporate environment can be beneficial. An MBA will give you alot of great knowledge in management and business that can be applied to any job. Most positions I see today require a BS/BA with x amount of experience, an MS with a little less experience, or another number of just experience.

Anyways Fade I would recommend to keep moving the way you are now. How many classes are you taking a semester? Once you finish the Associates I would look to see if any schools around you offer accelerated BS programs. My recommendation would be to keep at it like you are for sure, there are ways to move out of helpdesk without a degree just takes time unfortunately.

I took one class last semester... with my work schedule and the driving time to school it isn't feasible for me to take more than 1-2 classes.

dynamik

LarryDaMan wrote: »

I recommend finishing your first 2 years (60 credits) at the community college. Community colleges are usually more flexible and almost always cheaper. Make sure that your credits will transfer and start looking ahead to which 4-year school you will transfer to.

120 credits at 4-year school = 60 transfer credits + 60 credits at a 4-year school

With all the money saved, you can buy a new car

Yea, that was going to be my advice as well. Also, a lot of places will transfer more of your credits if you've finished a degree. It depends on the colleges and the state, but I've seen people lose dozens of credits from being one class away from a degree while another person in the same program was able to transfer everything because he actually got his AAS.

rsutton

FadeToBright wrote: »

Doing help desk now, and then they want me to do application support

Depending on the expectations of the job this may give you valuable experience working with member servers, databases and networking. Most Sys admin jobs will take experience in place of a college education.

vCole

rsutton wrote: »

Depending on the expectations of the job this may give you valuable experience working with member servers, databases and networking. Most Sys admin jobs will take experience in place of a college education.

The application support will be supporting the two programs my boss wrote for the company.

Tyrant1919

Year and a half as helpdesk... time to move up indeed. I was helpdesk for two years before I moved on to the shop that does DNS/DHCP/NTP/Openview.

Forsaken_GA

shednik wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with you more...an MBA in ANY position in a corporate environment can be beneficial. An MBA will give you alot of great knowledge in management and business that can be applied to any job. Most positions I see today require a BS/BA with x amount of experience, an MS with a little less experience, or another number of just experience.

*sigh*

Where did I ever say that an MBA wouldn't be beneficial? Any degree is beneficial when it comes down to it. What I said was that any job that's requiring an MBA for a hands on tech position needs to drug test their HR department. That kind of job requirement would tell me that either the company has unrealistic expectations and it's probably not worth my time to apply, or that they're incompetent, in which case I also do not need to apply. An MS is far more realistic of a requirement, or keeping it general and just asking for a Bachelor's or Master's degree.

skrpune

WGU is probably one of the more flexible and better priced online BS programs, and F2B you'll get credit for certification exams already completed...so that will shorten your timeframe to graduate a lot. In general, they say it takes about 2-2.5 years to get a BS if you've already got an associates degree and 4-5 years if you have no college/university level classes. Given that you've got some associates classes done and some cert exams done as well, that might buy you some time and put you somewhere in the middle, maybe 3-3.5 years to a bachelors. BUT your timeframe and classes per semester is up to you - so if you want to take extra courses and really pack it in, you can finish up a bit sooner. Given that you're not going to be commuting back & forth to school, you may be able to put the extra time into extra studies.

If you do end up going to an online program, especially a nontraditional one like WGU, you want to stick it through to the end and make sure you finish...the classes seem less likely to transfer to other universities.

Also, talk to people in the industry in your area - see how the reputation of WGU & other online universities stack up...and if you're planning on going on to grad school, check in with places you might want to attend & see what their opinion of WGU/online u's is.

One other thing - are you looking to leave your current job in the near future? I'm all for moving onward & upward, but it sounds like you've held a few different jobs in a relatively short time, and unless you're absolutely miserable, you may want to stick it out there for at least a year so you can build up a stable job history. Just my two cents.

Jordus

If you are wanting to be a sys admin, you will need to prove you have the knowledge to do it.

This comes from certs and/or actual experience, not college degrees.

IT is a field where theory doesnt get you very far, and other than the fact that some employers are just stubborn...a degree doesnt mean ability or knowledge.

You need to finish up some sys admin level certs and also try and convince your current employer to let you start workign on that stuff, even if its pro bono.

jamesleecoleman

FadeToBright wrote: »

I took one class last semester... with my work schedule and the driving time to school it isn't feasible for me to take more than 1-2 classes.

Have you thought about testing out of some basic classes through CLEP exams?

eMeS

FadeToBright wrote: »

Hello TechExam Members

I need a little advice from all of you.

Currently I attend a Community College and Work full time in IT. (Doing help desk now, and then they want me to do application support )

I want more of a Systems Engineer/System Administrator position.
Mostly positions call for a B.S. or MBA.

I will be finishing up my MCSA by the end of this month/early next month. (then on to MCSE).

But what I'm more concerned about it college. I would like to get my Bachelor's ASAP.

I've read about online colleges such as Kaplan and W.G.U., but how do these schools measure up? Or should I keep plugging away taking 2-3 classes at the community college?

Any input is appreciated, as I really want to get out of help desk! (a year 1/2 is far too long! )

IMO, to advance your career you have to think about more than just getting any degree to check off that pesky "degree" requirement. Your college education should be a lifelong advertisement that works for you.

I've said what I'm about to say many times here and my intent is not to start some argument about the merits of online education. My personal opinion is that we all get out of any educational experience exactly what we put into it...

With that said, often what is most important about any degree you earn is the name and the reputation of the school that conferred it. Degrees from the schools that you mentioned would not necessarily stand out on a resume. Think about it...what really are the barriers to entry for either of those schools?

MBAs as well...many schools offer them, very few are worth having. Not to offend, but an MBA from some unknown school will never provide the same benefit as an MBA from a top-20 business school.

My advice:

1) Avoid schools that are organized primarily on a for-profit basis, regardless of accreditation. Is their motivation to make money from selling you classes (even selling credits for "life experience") or is their motivation to produce high-quality graduates that are worth something in the marketplace?

2) If online education is the only way you're going to be able to complete a degree within your desired timeframe, look for a traditional brick and mortar school with strong name brand recognition and complete their online program.

3) You live in ground zero for millions of excellent schools with strong name recognition and you're relatively youthful. Trust me on this, do whatever you have to do to get into the best school you can in your area and complete a degree program. Ten years (or less) from now you will not regret this decision.

MS

vCole

eMeS wrote: »

IMO, to advance your career you have to think about more than just getting any degree to check off that pesky "degree" requirement. Your college education should be a lifelong advertisement that works for you.

I've said what I'm about to say many times here and my intent is not to start some argument about the merits of online education. My personal opinion is that we all get out of any educational experience exactly what we put into it...

With that said, often what is most important about any degree you earn is the name and the reputation of the school that conferred it. Degrees from the schools that you mentioned would not necessarily stand out on a resume. Think about it...what really are the barriers to entry for either of those schools?

MBAs as well...many schools offer them, very few are worth having. Not to offend, but an MBA from some unknown school will never provide the same benefit as an MBA from a top-20 business school.

My advice:

1) Avoid schools that are organized primarily on a for-profit basis, regardless of accreditation. Is their motivation to make money from selling you classes (even selling credits for "life experience") or is their motivation to produce high-quality graduates that are worth something in the marketplace?

2) If online education is the only way you're going to be able to complete a degree within your desired timeframe, look for a traditional brick and mortar school with strong name brand recognition and complete their online program.

3) You live in ground zero for millions of excellent schools with strong name recognition and you're relatively youthful. Trust me on this, do whatever you have to do to get into the best school you can in your area and complete a degree program. Ten years (or less) from now you will not regret this decision.

MS

Unfortunately, my grades suck, and I graduated high school with 181 out of 182 (after having to be there for 5 years). Also my college grades are mostly C's.

So I'm not sure how I would be able to get in any colleges like WPI/MIT/UMASS/etc....

eMeS

FadeToBright wrote: »

Unfortunately, my grades suck, and I graduated high school with 181 out of 182 (after having to be there for 5 years). Also my college grades are mostly C's.

So I'm not sure how I would be able to get in any colleges like WPI/MIT/UMASS/etc....

Don't spend any money on education unless you're serious about it and can get good grades. If you are, then:

Clear the slate.

Step 1 - Do this (or something similar) Admission: Undergraduate Degree: Harvard Extension School . Note the admission requirements. Also note that this is "Harvard Extension", which is slightly different than "Harvard University".

Step 2 - Don't **** around. Stay out of Beantown Pub. Get good grades.

Step 3 - Either complete a degree through the extension school, or *better* yet, transfer into a traditional program at one of the big name schools after you've accumulated a certain number of hours and a solid GPA.

MS

Forsaken_GA

It always frustrates me the amount of people who seem to believe that a college degree is an absolute requirement. It helps, sure, it may crack open a few doors too, but you're still the one that has to kick it in, and you can do that with or without a degree. I can't remember whether it was in The Millionaire Next Door or The Millionaire Mind (I think the latter, but both are worth reading), but Thomas Stanley did a study of the characteristics shared by a number of America's deca-millionaires, something like 38 things they had in common. Grades were in the low 30's. I think the average GPA was something like 2.9, and the average SAT was 1200. So school doesn't measure everything.

Sure, some companies may have a glass ceiling when it comes to whether or not you have a degree, but that's not true to the IT industry as a whole. The bottom line is that it's how you sell yourself, and education isn't something you do as part of a check list, it's a lifelong thing. Troubleshooting modem connections was a big deal once upon a time, nowadays, very few companies even care if you know what a modem is (a real modem, not a blood cable modem!). In this game, if you decide to stop learning, you lose.

When I started my current job, I laid out one goal - learn something new every day. Even on my offdays. Whether it was simple, or complex, or whatever, I learned something I didn't know before (and I put it in my wiki).

There's no recipe to follow for a proper career in IT. Get good at what you want to do, get *really* good at a few aspects of it, particularly if they're difficult with few representatives (just don't overspecialize yourself. Yeah FORTRAN coders, I'm talking to you), and market yourself to companies in need of that expertise.

I used to try and follow the checklist path, and it just didn't work for me. A large part of it was because my motivation wasn't there. I never intended to turn my hobby into my career, but I found myself in my early 20's with not a whole lot of prospects, so I figured that's what I had to do. I spent an awful lot of time treading water, working with horrible companies that I didn't really like. By the time I hit 30, I knew what I'd wanted to do, and I found a way to get about doing it. And I really regret all the time I wasted in my 20's trying to figure it out. Now I work for a company that lets me do what I love, and in an environment I enjoy doing it in.

undomiel

eMeS wrote: »

Don't spend any money on education unless you're serious about it and can get good grades.

Just had to second this. Be serious and be sure to pay cash too.

remyforbes777

Fade:
A degree is not necessary to land a Network Admin position. I am living proof of it. I am working on my AAS in Computer Network Engineering as we speak but I am making close to 60K with no degree. It's all about proving yourself. What are you doing during your down time? You should be grinding until you get where you want to be. I was doing tech support for 4 years but I was always studying and doing labs to drive home what I was reading. I finally landed a network admin job and haven't looked back. I am passionate about learning and continued learning and it shows. The employer recognizes that and would be more willing on taking a chance with someone who has done some hands on labs and understand the concepts and how to apply it but doesn't have a degree than someone who has a degree but only knows theory.

apena7

Hello FadeToBright
I work full-time and attend WGU.

Since I'm not in HR, I can't tell you how degrees from various colleges measure up. But, I second eMeS when stating that we reap what we sow when it comes to education. I didn't have many options when choosing a school -- either become a full-time student or go the online route. I didn't have the money to go to school full-time, so I ended up at WGU. Granted, it wasn't my first choice, but I have to make the best of it. Now I'm pretty happy with my situation as I'm able to work, earn my degree, and pay off my tuition in cash -- where else could I have such an opportunity?

As for the whole brick-and-mortar vs. online debate, it doesn't bother me really. It just means that I have more to prove and expectations to exceed, so I welcome the challenge. I don't have lofty goals in life, but if a degree from WGU means I can send my kids (not that I have any) to better schools and have more opportunities, then I would be completely satisfied in life.

Look at your goals -- can you quantify them? How long do you think it will take you to earn a BS or become a System Engineer/Administrator? You are working on your MCSE, what other steps can you take? All I'm saying is that a degree is looking a mile away right now -- take some baby steps and soon everything will come into focus.

RacingSnail

The online format is very difficult for some students. If I had a penny for every student who came to me and said it was the worst mistake they ever made, I'd not be listening to whining students all day. Online classes require a lot of self-direction and self-discipline. Some people just simply are better auditory learners and really need to hear the lecture as opposed to just reading it online. Given what you have said about your academic record, I'd not be first in line to say that taking all of your classes online would be a good idea. I mean, it's your money, but if you want to really try, take only one or two classes online for the first session to see if it is really going to work for you before committing to a full load.

I'd second the idea of just sticking with the community college. Check into transfer program options to local four year institutions. That's really your best bet.

HeroPsycho

remyforbes777 wrote: »

Fade:
A degree is not necessary to land a Network Admin position. I am living proof of it. I am working on my AAS in Computer Network Engineering as we speak but I am making close to 60K with no degree. It's all about proving yourself. What are you doing during your down time? You should be grinding until you get where you want to be.

Completely agree. I've talked with you about it several times, Fade.

But to be honest, if you decide to get your degree, or go for certs, whatever, the important thing is you need to apply yourself to whatever you choose, which I know you can do. You're not gonna move up very fast until you do.

JoJoCal19

FadeToBright wrote: »

I took one class last semester... with my work schedule and the driving time to school it isn't feasible for me to take more than 1-2 classes.

First, you should decide what you want to do degreewise. I definitely recommend looking towards getting a bachelors degree from a public state university. Getting an A.S. or an A.A.S isnt bad, but yes it does limit you. An A.S most likely wont and especially A.A.S will not transfer fully to a 4 year state university. Some of the classes will but not all. Like was posted you can definitely get good jobs without a 4 year degree if you have the experience and certs and can prove yourself, but even the individual above making almost $60k might find it hard to move much higher than that because of the lack of a higher level degree. I aswell make almost that much and have a great job but Im also pretty much stuck for now until I get my 4 year degree.

I dont know what your schedule is or how much time you have to dedicate but I would say if you can take online classes you definitely should be able to take more than 1 or 2 classes but also dont make it to where you cant handle the load. Its unfortunate that colleges do not offer bachelors in IT degrees online but most often than not they offer all the classes you need in the evenings to be able to get a bachelors in IT/IS. Check your local colleges websites for class schedules.

I know you recently got a new job but one of the things you have to take into consideration when getting a new job is if you will have the chance to go to school if thats what you want to do. One reason I am staying in my position and with this company is because my schedule allows me to easily go to school and the company/mangers understand education is important and always are willing to make adjustments to let you go to classes.

joey74055

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

My advice would be to continue your education, continue your certs, but all the while keep your eye open for any job opportunities, and if you find them, apply, worst they can tell you is no or nothing at all. Since you're going into the MS world, I'd focus your elective exams towards things which are in demand.

I agree 120% with what Forsaken says. Continue/finish your education now, while the economy is down and while you are still in the "school-mode". You won't be able to get a mgmt type position on down the road unless you have that degree. In the meantime continue to work on certs. I know you said that you are working full time, I don't know your situation but if it is at all feasible, if you could go to school full time and maybe get a part time job on the side you will knock out your B.S. in no time. The job, be it part time or full time helps because it is giving you exp, a BIGTIME plus. You just have to weigh it all out. The quickest path to systems admin type jobs is exp and certs, the quickest path for mgmt is the degree and exp. I would def change my major if I were you unless you want to stay in IT support which you you've mentioned you don't. Change it to a MIS, CS, networking or telecommunications. the MIS is more mgmt driven and less techincal than the others.

bellhead

Don't go the online degree route, employers have caught on to them and a lot of HR personal view them now as diploma mills, no matter how reputable.

My bachelor's degree is from Thomas More College a small catholic college located outside of Cincinnati. The school was ranked in the US News top 25 liberal arts schools when I attended. When I applied for my current job "not in the same region" one of the first questions from the HR person was is this an online college? Take the question for what it is worth.

Spend a couple of hours on the net and find out what the local 4 year schools offer. My advice would be to choose the one based upon their placement of grads into jobs after graduation, schools are very proud of this and will usually mention it during an interview. Also ask about transfer of credits, your community college may have a lock step deal in place with another school.

As for an MBA degree this is a different subject. If you want to make 6 figures with an MBA then you need to go to a top 20 MBA program like Wharton or Kellogg, I thought long and hard about this. There are certain requirements like a really high score on the GMAT and a 3.5 or greater GPA. People from there go into consulting or Wall Street. Consulting is great money 100k to start, but crappy hours 80 to 100 a week and you are on the road. With a technical background and a MBA from these schools you will make good money but the personal life will suffer. A MBA from your local school looks good and will get you through the initial interview process but that is about it.

Good luck any ?'s post them and I will answer.

sdyess

I have a Masters in Computer Information Systems from DeVry's Master's Program - Keller Graduate School of Management. I went completely online and I have not had one interviewer yet tell me DeVry was a diploma Mill. I loved the experience, and while it was hard, I came out with a 3.83 GPA. The classes are a bit expensive, but I went for 8 weeks, and could contribute when I wanted to within the week. I considered getting a second degree, but I burned out. If you want any info, Fade, email me and I will answer any questions you have. I really think it is all about balance: School, real world experience and certs.

darkerosxx

eMeS wrote: »

Don't spend any money on education unless you're serious about it and can get good grades. If you are, then:

Clear the slate.

Step 1 - Do this (or something similar) Admission: Undergraduate Degree: Harvard Extension School . Note the admission requirements. Also note that this is "Harvard Extension", which is slightly different than "Harvard University".

Step 2 - Don't **** around. Stay out of Beantown Pub. Get good grades.

Step 3 - Either complete a degree through the extension school, or *better* yet, transfer into a traditional program at one of the big name schools after you've accumulated a certain number of hours and a solid GPA.

MS

Note that Harvard Extension School has no Bachelor's that applies to business or IT.

bellhead

sdyess wrote: »

I have a Masters in Computer Information Systems from DeVry's Master's Program - Keller Graduate School of Management. I went completely online and I have not had one interviewer yet tell me DeVry was a diploma Mill. I loved the experience, and while it was hard, I came out with a 3.83 GPA. The classes are a bit expensive, but I went for 8 weeks, and could contribute when I wanted to within the week. I considered getting a second degree, but I burned out. If you want any info, Fade, email me and I will answer any questions you have. I really think it is all about balance: School, real world experience and certs.

Devry is known technical and business school who has numerous brick and mortar buildings throughout the US, also most of their programs are accredidated by professional agencies. I was not using them as an example.

WillTech105

I might be beating a dead horse here but ditto everyone else on that a degree means almost nothing to an employer other than "your smart enough to get a bachelors". I still find it funny how when I went on interviews employers asked "so you have a bachelors right? OK good" and never asked about my college experience again.

Sometimes I look back and regret going to college just because I learned 100x more on the job and obtaining certifications than going to school and spending 30k+. But unfortuantly now a bachelors degree is a status-quo as "do you have a HS diploma" it seems.