Advancing my career

bellhead

WillTech105 wrote: »

I might be beating a dead horse here but ditto everyone else on that a degree means almost nothing to an employer other than "your smart enough to get a bachelors". I still find it funny how when I went on interviews employers asked "so you have a bachelors right? OK good" and never asked about my college experience again.

Sometimes I look back and regret going to college just because I learned 100x more on the job and obtaining certifications than going to school and spending 30k+. But unfortuantly now a bachelors degree is a status-quo as "do you have a HS diploma" it seems.

This is due to a changing workforce and economy. The majority of the blue color type jobs are no longer there, however there has been a major expansion of the service and technical job markets over the last 20 years. Many of these jobs require several years of experience and a high level of responsibility. Most corporations do not hire people off the street for a job paying good money unless the person has the right skill set and or has been in a similar job before. Most will first try to fill the job internally by promoting someone who has showed the responsibility, attitude, and etc. When there is not an eternal candidate most will look first to college's and universities which they have ties to. This is were the degree comes in someone who has completed a 4 year degree has shown the ability and responsibility necessary to succeed in most jobs. This is why a bachelors degree is a status-quo. Employers expect it when hiring off of the street and employees and potential employees recongnize this and will complete their degree in order to get hired.

eMeS

darkerosxx wrote: »

Note that Harvard Extension School has no Bachelor's that applies to business or IT.

Very few professions require a specialized bachelor's degree.

Save your specialization for graduate school.

MS

dynamik

What about a scenario where you have one bachelor's degree with a lower GPA at one school, and you start a second at another school. If you go on to a graduate degree at the latter school, will they still factor your previous GPA into the equation, or will they just use what you did with them?

My GPA is less than stellar because of family illnesses and other life issues.

Paul Boz

Also don't think for a second that you have to get a degree in something related to your job. I am a history major because the subject interests me. I don't see an education as a tool for a vocation but as a tool for the soul. That's why I don't have a problem sidelining my degree while I pay for my wife's. She is studying physical therapy which requires a degree. I work in IT which does not. Once her degree is finished I will resume.

My uncle Lauren has two phd, three masters, and three undergraduate degrees. His phd's are both in history, has a masters in theology, and his undergraduates are in various liberal arts subjects. He is a minister and does IT stuff on the side. He pursued his degrees not for the vocational benefits but because they interested him.

Also, correspondence programs are excellent if you are self-motivated and can make yourself put in the time and dedication.

eMeS

dynamik wrote: »

What about a scenario where you have one bachelor's degree with a lower GPA at one school, and you start a second at another school. If you go on to a graduate degree at the latter school, will they still factor your previous GPA into the equation, or will they just use what you did with them?

My GPA is less than stellar because of family illnesses and other life issues.

This depends on the school and its specific policies. Some do, some don't...Some schools allow you to enter graduate programs on a provisional basis, and based on completing a certain number of courses at or above some minimum requirements, might allow you to enter their graduate programs.

There are many many backdoors throughout the educational systems and within most universities...you just have to know where they are in order to open them...

MS

msteinhilber

I agree that a degree can be worthwhile. Depending on your area it can be something you need to get into a lot of places while other areas it doesn't matter as much. This is why I elected to go back and get my degree, in my area - I am getting a lot of feedback from employers that really desire a B.S. degree or at the very least an Associates. On the other side of things, I have relatives on the west coast in SoCal and in the Portland, OR area. They either work in IT or have connections with those that do, and from talking with them there seems to be a lot more employers in those areas that are more relaxed and don't specifically require a degree to get in line for an interview if your experience and/or other qualifications are in line with the job you are applying for.

I would also agree with some on here, I really don't think it matters very much what your degree is in. I know of people working very lucrative IT jobs in my area, one has a B.S. in Microbiology and the other has a B.S. in Communication. My take on it is that if an employer is after candidates who hold a degree - they are more or less after the more honed written and verbal communication skills that would come with a degree from a respectable school as well as the determination and follow through it displays in the applicant. I selected my degree program (Technology Management) because it fit well with the two primary skill sets I have professionally (technology, and running a business in a franchise type role) and because both of those areas are of interest to me.

If I was able to turn back the clock, I would have probably gone and obtained my associates and stopped it there. I already have my associates and used the credits towards my B.S. but I began to get a lot more interest with having the associates on my resume than I was getting when I didn't. I have experience presently, but I really don't have anything for certifications (except the MCTS: Vista Config) - and I think that is what is really holding me back currently. As I finish up my school now, I find it difficult to devote time to studying for certifications with the work load for school as well as being a full-time employee, full-time husband/father, and doing work on the side to help ends meet. I would have been much better off I think focusing on self-study for certs after the associates was completed and perhaps finishing up the B.S. later on once I found a better job with tuition reimbursement.

This is just my opinion of my area, and that is all that everybody else here is really contributing. While some of the general information here is related to many regions, the fact is that many areas have different labor markets to tap into and their expectations of potential employees can vary greatly. The absolute best thing you would be able to do is network with friends and family and see if they can perhaps find out what it takes to get into an IT role within their organization or if they know of friends that work in IT see what it took for them. That's what I did, I had a lot of contacts built up and I just casually asked around what their hiring standards were like. That information coupled with my experience applying for jobs told me that a degree wouldn't be a bad idea.

Daniel333

FadeToBright wrote: »

Hello TechExam Members

I need a little advice from all of you.

Currently I attend a Community College and Work full time in IT. (Doing help desk now, and then they want me to do application support )

I want more of a Systems Engineer/System Administrator position.
Mostly positions call for a B.S. or MBA.

I will be finishing up my MCSA by the end of this month/early next month. (then on to MCSE).

But what I'm more concerned about it college. I would like to get my Bachelor's ASAP.

I've read about online colleges such as Kaplan and W.G.U., but how do these schools measure up? Or should I keep plugging away taking 2-3 classes at the community college?

Any input is appreciated, as I really want to get out of help desk! (a year 1/2 is far too long! )

Let me start off by saying you are doing everything right. Working, school and certification is the way to go without a doubt. If you pass with a D or get an A it doesn't matter, that degree will fill in the gaps on the resume. But as someone working in IT you realize the degree isn't everything.

Finishing your MCSE (+Security?) and a couple CCNA specializations will start swinging doors open in the near future. So keep at it. Once I had my CCNA and MCSA combo I have not gone a month without a job offer.

My only recommendation would be to consider swapping your 70-431 for an Exchange or Sharepoint cert out for the immediate future. Exchange seems to be more employable right now than SQL with little/no experience.

Keep doing what you are doing in a few years you'll be exactly where you want to be.

HeroPsycho

Daniel333 wrote: »

My only recommendation would be to consider swapping your 70-431 for an Exchange or Sharepoint cert out for the immediate future. Exchange seems to be more employable right now than SQL with little/no experience.

I gotta disagree here. When you consider that Exchange is going to be heavily targeted for hosted services from here on out, and the relatively higher number of Exchange people out there already, it's only gonna keep getting tougher to find jobs that pay well just for Exchange skills. And it's tough for me to say that because Exchange is the skill I have more expertise in than anything else.

Sharepoint is another good skill to have, too, but what's it's backend storage again? Oh, right, SQL...

darkerosxx

eMeS wrote: »

Very few professions require a specialized bachelor's degree.

Save your specialization for graduate school.

MS

<devil's advocate>
So what you're saying throughout this thread is don't worry about what you learn, worry more about what school you're putting on your resume?
</devil's advocate>

jryantech

I will keep it simple and say:

Take your time.

Luckily a lot of State Universities allow you to get in with a A.A. Degree 2.0 GPA+ with no issues. Don't try to take short cuts with for-profit schools,

I do not know your age but if your under 25 I suggest you start going to school full time (4-5 classes), live off student loans and enjoy yourself. No reason to stress as much as you are and no reason to try and grow up to quick.

You have some experience under your belt, now you need the paper. Go get it then come back to the real world. Good luck.

jryantech

darkerosxx wrote: »

<devil's advocate>
So what you're saying throughout this thread is don't worry about what you learn, worry more about what school you're putting on your resume?
</devil's advocate>

/honesty on

Sadly that is how the Business world works.

It is about the School and Degree you put on your Resume. As much as everyone with a DeVry, ITT Tech, Phoenix and Full Sail degree would like there bachelors to stick it, its not.

/honesty off

darkerosxx

Correct, it's "school and degree", not just "school." I don't care what school you got a degree from... if you can't do the job because you chose a degree in history rather than business or CS, you don't get the job. Likewise, if you can't do the job as well as someone else who got a degree in business or CS from an online school, I will choose the latter. School names hold weight, but they don't trump areas of knowledge or training, imo.

eMeS

darkerosxx wrote: »

<devil's advocate>
So what you're saying throughout this thread is don't worry about what you learn, worry more about what school you're putting on your resume?
</devil's advocate>

I'm with you, and trust me, my preference would be pure meritocracy, but unfortunately that's not the way things are....

I never said to not worry about what you learn. What you learn is up to you, and I clearly said early in this thread that we all get out of any educational experience exactly what we put into it. Anyone's degree field or degree type tells me nothing about what they learned.

The 2nd part of this is very true...the things that go on your resume should work for you as much as possible; a resume is a marketing document.

MS

darkerosxx

eMeS wrote: »

The 2nd part of this is very true...the things that go on your resume should work for you as much as possible; a resume is a marketing document.

MS

Agreed!

HeroPsycho

darkerosxx wrote: »

Correct, it's "school and degree", not just "school." I don't care what school you got a degree from... if you can't do the job because you chose a degree in history rather than business or CS, you don't get the job. Likewise, if you can't do the job as well as someone else who got a degree in business or CS from an online school, I will choose the latter. School names hold weight, but they don't trump areas of knowledge or training, imo.

*in best Jim Gaffigan voice* Hey buddy, my college degree is in history!

...at Virginia Commonwealth University...decent school, not Harvard or MIT or anything...

Yet somehow, I'm doing really well in IT. *shrug*

dynamik

HeroPsycho wrote: »

*in best Jim Gaffigan voice* Hey buddy, my college degree is in history!

It sounded dead-on in my head! Nice job!

Um, Fade... care to explain your latest tweet about going into mechanical engineering?

vCole

dynamik wrote: »

It sounded dead-on in my head! Nice job!

Um, Fade... care to explain your latest tweet about going into mechanical engineering?

yeah, about that. I did a lot of "soul searching" and honestly, as much as I love technology, the hectic schedule of IT work.....sucks. I'm 22 and I feel like I'm going on 55.

I want to be able to do something I love not something I'm just good at.

I will however, still be getting certs & working in IT until I'm done with college, as well as possibly taking a lower paying/less hectic role so I can focus on college.

Forsaken_GA

FadeToBright wrote: »

yeah, about that. I did a lot of "soul searching" and honestly, as much as I love technology, the hectic schedule of IT work.....sucks. I'm 22 and I feel like I'm going on 55.

It's remarkably honest of you to be able to admit to yourself that this might not be what you want to do. If you don't enjoy what you do, then you're never going to be any good at it.

Now, with that being said - not all of IT work schedule is hectic as hell. It depends on *what* you're doing. If you enjoy the work, but don't enjoy the possibility of 60-80 hour work weeks and phone calls at 2am on a sunday morning, then that's more an issue of work environment than it is the industry as a whole. As I'm sure plenty of folks here can attest, there are jobs which allow you to work in IT and have a life

HeroPsycho

FadeToBright wrote: »

yeah, about that. I did a lot of "soul searching" and honestly, as much as I love technology, the hectic schedule of IT work.....sucks. I'm 22 and I feel like I'm going on 55.

I want to be able to do something I love not something I'm just good at.

I will however, still be getting certs & working in IT until I'm done with college, as well as possibly taking a lower paying/less hectic role so I can focus on college.

Make sure you understand that any profession is demanding if you're gonna be good at what you do. Believe me, I'm in my second profession. This job is no more demanding than my job as a teacher because I was good at both, and wanted to be good at both.

The biggest difference between IT and other professions is on the technical side, while things change more rapidly compared to other professions, there is also far greater mobility up the professional and pay scale ladders.

You don't HAVE to be uber certified, etc. There are plenty of people out working as windows admins and haven't gotten a single cert or last got MCSE in NT4. They also have worked in IT for a decade and are still admins. You have people like me in IT who have been working in IT and were Senior Systems Engineers in 2-3 years time. You won't find that in Mechanical Engineering typically speaking.

If you LOVE mechanical engineering, by all means, go for it. I wouldn't dare talk you out of it. But don't think you're gonna be a good mechanical engineer and not have to put in a lot of hours and hard work. If a switch to mech eng will motivate you to do that, I encourage you to switch. If not, you can't dodge the fact you have to be dedicated to be good at any profession.

dynamik

FadeToBright wrote: »

I want to be able to do something I love not something I'm just good at.

I didn't know you needed a degree to be a pr0n star...

LarryDaMan

jryantech wrote: »

live off student loans and enjoy yourself

Terrible advice. If you are going to spend the next 10-30 years paying off student loans, it is okay to work hard and strive for good grades. A little stress is good for you.

If we don't change our mentality towards debt and credit, we will see a recession 10x worse than the one we are in right now. The credit crunch is coming, because nowadays if we don't have money for something we charge it! You can't just keep printing money and expect it to be worth something. The world is coming to an end! Just kidding on that last one.

LarryDaMan

dynamik wrote: »

I didn't know you needed a degree to be a pr0n star...

Wow, you went there.

vCole

dynamik wrote: »

I didn't know you needed a degree to be a pr0n star...

well I should get a film degree so I seem reputable.

Tyrant1919

Did someone say prOn?

Dang it Dynamik, throwing off my google searches.

vCole

also dynamik,

tell your mom I have her half of the payment from the last pr0n her and I made together.

dynamik

FadeToBright wrote: »

also dynamik,

tell your mom I have her half of the payment from the last pr0n her and I made together.

Ok good; I'll be sure to pass that along. She's running low on crack and was worried about that.

vCole

dynamik wrote: »

Ok good; I'll be sure to pass that along. She's running low on crack and was worried about that.

Yeah, it's not good when she's strung out bro. She gets all crazy and stuff.

jryantech

LarryDaMan wrote: »

Terrible advice. If you are going to spend the next 10-30 years paying off student loans, it is okay to work hard and strive for good grades. A little stress is good for you.

If we don't change our mentality towards debt and credit, we will see a recession 10x worse than the one we are in right now. The credit crunch is coming, because nowadays if we don't have money for something we charge it! You can't just keep printing money and expect it to be worth something. The world is coming to an end! Just kidding on that last one.

Okay yes I agree it is terrible advice if you have no self-confidence in getting a job out of college.

And your "OMG A BIGGER RECESSION IS COMING" makes me want to find that Fore-Head ASCII art again. Dynamilk might be able to help me out...

msteinhilber

jryantech wrote: »

Okay yes I agree it is terrible advice if you have no self-confidence in getting a job out of college.

And your "OMG A BIGGER RECESSION IS COMING" makes me want to find that Fore-Head ASCII art again. Dynamilk might be able to help me out...

Living off student loans is pretty shakey advice. It isn't about not finding a job right out of college, but this is a valid concern - I'll be finishing my degree in a couple months and entering repayment soon after that. I have experience and I'll have a degree and the job market here is very competitive. If I am not able to find a better paying job, we're going to be in a significant crunch since money is already just about break even currently - but my situation is a bit unique compared to others as I am married and have a son and we own a home so our expenses are already a bit higher than your typical college grad, but it can be a concern.

I think the point that was being made here is not to go all out and live off your loans exclusively. Do what you can to pay for as much as possible and finance as little as possible. No sensible person enjoys being in debt, we already have so many people out there that are going to be graduating with nearly entirely financed educations. Those people will be having a harder time finding a way to save for a down payment on a home or other items they desire.

HeroPsycho

jryantech wrote: »

Okay yes I agree it is terrible advice if you have no self-confidence in getting a job out of college.

And your "OMG A BIGGER RECESSION IS COMING" makes me want to find that Fore-Head ASCII art again. Dynamilk might be able to help me out...

Being able to get a job isn't solely dependent on your self-confidence.

Borrowing more than you need to is a bad idea. But if you have to borrow for school, assuming you want to be there and you can do well, is also not a problem.