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Network vs Host question

HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
in CCNA & CCENT
I'm starting to study CCNA

I'm trying to understand the subnet

each octet has 8 bits etc..
In Binary 1 represent Network and 0 represent Host

I understand host is a PC
but Network what does that represent? the number of routers? or switches?
what exactly is Network when we are talking about subnet?

Number of Subnet mask within the same network router?

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    kalebkspkalebksp Member Posts: 1,033 ■■■■■□□□□□
    The network is just an identifier, it doesn't represent the number of anything. When hosts communicate they use the network portion of the address to determine whether they can communicate directly (they have the same network portion) or whether they need the assistance of a router (they have different network portions).
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    Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Handbrake wrote: »
    I'm starting to study CCNA

    I'm trying to understand the subnet

    each octet has 8 bits etc..
    In Binary 1 represent Network and 0 represent Host

    I understand host is a PC
    but Network what does that represent? the number of routers? or switches?
    what exactly is Network when we are talking about subnet?

    Number of Subnet mask within the same network router?

    icon_study.gif

    Welcome to the forums!

    First off, the host doesn't nessarly need to be a pc. It could be anything that is not going to be the device providing routing services (default-gateway is a term that comes into play when thinking about this) for the "network" - a pc, a switch, a router, blackberry/iphone, or whatever.

    A "network" in the terms of ip addressing is anything in the confines of the ip addressing scheme which is dictated by the subnet mask. What the hell did I just say? Well think about it like this we have this IP address:
    192.168.1.1/24 (255.255.255.0)
    The "network" is 192.168.1 and the "host" .1. What controls the network portion/host portion of the ip address is the subnet mask. In the previous example the /24 (255.255.255.0) means that the first 3 octets are used for "network" addressing and the last octet is used for "host" addressing. The first ip address in a network is used to identify the device that will be providing routering services for the network (almost always a router). Reading this IP subnetting made easy will help you. I am not going to go into the binary math in this response because I think that is best sumed up via the article.

    Now here is a question for you if I a have this ip address/subnet mask what is the network portion and host portion: 10.1.0.1 255.255.0.0
    Bonus points if you can tell me the technique that I applied to this ip address and what is its use. icon_wink.gif
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    miller811miller811 Member Posts: 897
    http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccna-ccent/38772-subnetting-made-easy.html
    I don't claim to be an expert, but I sure would like to become one someday.

    Quest for 11K pages read in 2011
    Page Count total to date - 1283
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    gravyjoegravyjoe Member Posts: 260
    Think of hosts and networks as "the number of hosts vs. the number of networks". Since 0 represents hosts, and 1 represents networks, the more hosts (zeroes) in a 32-bit mask, the less amount of networks there can be. The more networks, the less amount of hosts can be in those networks.

    It's like a hotel. Networks are like rooms, and hosts are like people. If you only have so much space to build a hotel, you can either create:
    1) Millions of very small rooms to fit a few people each.
    2) A few rooms that can fit millions of people each.
    3) Or somewhere inbetween.

    Example 1: If I have a subnet mask of 255.255.255.252, it will look like this in binary:

    11111111.11111111.11111111.11111100

    There's a whole lot of networks (1's) here, but with a 255.255.255.252 mask, only 2 hosts are allowed per subnet. It's like having millions of very small rooms that can only fit up to 2 people.

    Example 2: If I have a subnet mask of 255.0.0.0, it will look like this in binary:

    11111111.00000000.00000000.00000000

    A whole lot of hosts (0's) here. A lot of hosts can fit into this subnet. Very large room. However, not as many rooms can be created.

    Hope this helps icon_smile.gif
    The biggest risk in life is not taking one.
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    Forsaken_GAForsaken_GA Member Posts: 4,024
    To try and simplify this a bit -

    A host is an endpoint, and a network is a logical grouping of hosts. Think of it like a baseball team - the network identifier tells you the team is the Detroit Tigers, and number 35 identifies Justin Verlander.
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    knwminus wrote: »
    Welcome to the forums!

    First off, the host doesn't nessarly need to be a pc. It could be anything that is not going to be the device providing routing services (default-gateway is a term that comes into play when thinking about this) for the "network" - a pc, a switch, a router, blackberry/iphone, or whatever.

    A "network" in the terms of ip addressing is anything in the confines of the ip addressing scheme which is dictated by the subnet mask. What the hell did I just say? Well think about it like this we have this IP address:
    192.168.1.1/24 (255.255.255.0)
    The "network" is 192.168.1 and the "host" .1. What controls the network portion/host portion of the ip address is the subnet mask. In the previous example the /24 (255.255.255.0) means that the first 3 octets are used for "network" addressing and the last octet is used for "host" addressing. The first ip address in a network is used to identify the device that will be providing routering services for the network (almost always a router). Reading this IP subnetting made easy will help you. I am not going to go into the binary math in this response because I think that is best sumed up via the article.

    Now here is a question for you if I a have this ip address/subnet mask what is the network portion and host portion: 10.1.0.1 255.255.0.0
    Bonus points if you can tell me the technique that I applied to this ip address and what is its use. icon_wink.gif

    10.1. is network and 0.1 is host?

    I figured since subnet is 16/16 bit

    icon_silent.gif
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    Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Handbrake wrote: »
    10.1. is network and 0.1 is host?

    I figured since subnet is 16/16 bit

    icon_silent.gif

    You got it. Now tell me what kind of application of the subnetting this is for the bonus?



    Hint Hint: What kayne west did to taylor swift showed that he is _________ and that he had no __________
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    dynamikdynamik Banned Posts: 12,312 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Yo knwminus, I'm really happy for you. I'm gonna let you finish, but tech-airman asks the best leading questions of all time. Of all time!
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    networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    dynamik wrote: »
    Yo knwminus, I'm really happy for you. I'm gonna let you finish, but tech-airman asks the best leading questions of all time. Of all time!


    Now that is hilarious! icon_lol.gif
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    knwminus wrote: »
    You got it. Now tell me what kind of application of the subnetting this is for the bonus?



    Hint Hint: What kayne west did to taylor swift showed that he is _________ and that he had no __________


    I'm not sure If I understand your application question but I think it's use for a large or mid size network since class B sub can have 65534 hosts and networks
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    miller811miller811 Member Posts: 897
    Handbrake wrote: »
    I'm not sure If I understand your application question but I think it's use for a large or mid size network since class B sub can have 65534 hosts and networks

    Would he be considered Classful or Classless?
    I don't claim to be an expert, but I sure would like to become one someday.

    Quest for 11K pages read in 2011
    Page Count total to date - 1283
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    KPWrightKPWright Member Posts: 44 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I'll take a stab at the application question, but it looks like it's an "it depends" answer.

    If the routing protocol used is a classful protocol (eg RIP v1), then the mask is ignored and the address yields the network portion to be only the first octet with the network defined as 10.0.0.0 since 10 is part of the class A range. The address would be specifying host no. 65536 out of a total of 16777214 possible in the network.

    If on the other hand the routing protocol used is a classless protocol (eg OSPF), the address would yield one of 256 subnets, with a network address of 10.1.0.0. Each of these subnets could address as many as 65534 hosts. The address given denotes the first host address in the subnet.

    I know that's more than what you had in mind, but let me know if I'm off base on any of it. I'm at the dangerous point where I think I might be starting to get it.

    But I'm still confused what this has to do with Kanye West being brain dead :o)
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    Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    KPWright wrote: »
    I'll take a stab at the application question, but it looks like it's an "it depends" answer.

    If the routing protocol used is a classful protocol (eg RIP v1), then the mask is ignored and the address yields the network portion to be only the first octet with the network defined as 10.0.0.0 since 10 is part of the class A range. The address would be specifying host no. 65536 out of a total of 16777214 possible in the network.

    If on the other hand the routing protocol used is a classless protocol (eg OSPF), the address would yield one of 256 subnets, with a network address of 10.1.0.0. Each of these subnets could address as many as 65534 hosts. The address given denotes the first host address in the subnet.

    I know that's more than what you had in mind, but let me know if I'm off base on any of it. I'm at the dangerous point where I think I might be starting to get it.

    But I'm still confused what this has to do with Kanye West being brain dead :o)

    The answer I was looking for was classful or classless. I was trying to say that Kayne was classless, and that he had no class. :D

    And yea that was more than what I was thinking although I believe you are right.
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    tech-airmantech-airman Member Posts: 953
    Handbrake wrote: »
    I'm starting to study CCNA

    I'm trying to understand the subnet

    each octet has 8 bits etc..
    In Binary 1 represent Network and 0 represent Host

    I understand host is a PC
    but Network what does that represent? the number of routers? or switches?
    what exactly is Network when we are talking about subnet?

    Number of Subnet mask within the same network router?

    icon_study.gif

    Handbrake,

    Do you know how to find out the IP address for the computer that you're using now?
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    tech-airman wrote: »
    Handbrake,

    Do you know how to find out the IP address for the computer that you're using now?

    Yes with ipconfig command

    regarding classful and classess

    how can u tell if it's classful or classless?

    is it because it's class A ip with class B sub?
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    Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Handbrake wrote: »
    Yes with ipconfig command

    regarding classful and classess

    how can u tell if it's classful or classless?

    is it because it's class A ip with class B sub?

    Short answer yes.

    Long answer: You can tell it is classless by the subnet that it is using. In classful addressing a class a address (10.0.0.0) can only use a class A subnet mask (255.0.0.0) a class B (172.16.0.0) only uses a class b subnet mask (255.255.0.0) and a class C (192.168.1.0) only uses a class C subnet mask (255.255.255.0).
    In classless addressing you can have a class A ip with a class A or B or C address and etc.
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    tech-airmantech-airman Member Posts: 953
    Handbrake wrote: »
    Yes with ipconfig command

    regarding classful and classess

    how can u tell if it's classful or classless?

    is it because it's class A ip with class B sub?

    Handbrake,

    What is the IP address and subnet mask for your computer?
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    rwwest7rwwest7 Member Posts: 300
    A host is a PC, a network is a collection of PC's.

    A PC on one network can't reach a PC on another network without using a router/gateway. The whole point of creating different networks is to make multiple broadcast domains.
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    tech-airman wrote: »
    Handbrake,

    What is the IP address and subnet mask for your computer?

    I have a class C address with class C sub

    192.168.1.33
    255.255.255.0


    I don't have 33 Hosts on my network ..i just static assigned random
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    knwminus wrote: »
    Short answer yes.

    Long answer: You can tell it is classless by the subnet that it is using. In classful addressing a class a address (10.0.0.0) can only use a class A subnet mask (255.0.0.0) a class B (172.16.0.0) only uses a class b subnet mask (255.255.0.0) and a class C (192.168.1.0) only uses a class C subnet mask (255.255.255.0).
    In classless addressing you can have a class A ip with a class A or B or C address and etc.

    I guess I don't get the purpose of classless of mixing things together..

    wouldn't it be neat and nice just to keep it classful?
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    trackittrackit Member Posts: 224
    Handbrake wrote: »
    I guess I don't get the purpose of classless of mixing things together..

    wouldn't it be neat and nice just to keep it classful?

    it would, if we would have enough addresses that everybody could be assigned a classful block of addresses :) i almost always use classful nets for internal use, but we cant do that with external addresses.
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    trackit wrote: »
    it would, if we would have enough addresses that everybody could be assigned a classful block of addresses :) i almost always use classful nets for internal use, but we cant do that with external addresses.

    Yes this is where I become confused is subnetting.. i'll have to read through subnetting made easy really slow
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    tech-airmantech-airman Member Posts: 953
    Handbrake wrote: »
    I have a class C address with class C sub

    192.168.1.33
    255.255.255.0


    I don't have 33 Hosts on my network ..i just static assigned random

    What is the default mask for a Class C network?
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    tech-airman wrote: »
    What is the default mask for a Class C network?

    Default
    Class C mask is
    255.255.255.0
    Or prefix of /24bit of networks icon_cheers.gif and 8bit host


    Is the term Network Address, and Subnet Address the samething?
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    IP Address 195.219.91.33/19
    Subnet Mask 255.255.224.0 (224 = 11100000)
    Network ID 195.219.64.0 (2^5 = 32
    Broadcast ID 195.219.95.255 (64+32-1= 95)

    Host = 2^13bit = 8192 - 2 = 8190 (2 = Network ID+Broadcast ID)
    Network = 2^19bit = 524, 288

    Ok, above I think I understood how to get Network ID and Broadcast ID. Thanks to easy subnetting.. "AND" command on calculator was supper helpful without having to convert everything to binary..which i know to do, but i tend to make a mistake when converting it back and forward.

    Basically, I AND 91.33 and 224.0 and got 64.0
    Now to get Broadcast ID I have to convert 224 to binary to see the remaining host bit.

    (Question here..Do you have always convert it to binary?
    Can you just use a calculator some how?)

    The next octet is 255 which i saw network ID last octet is 0..and I guess it's going to max out at 255 but in reality is 1-254 usable for host right?

    I hope I got the math correct...

    Even I got this math figured..I still really don't fully understand the concept of putting it to work.


    8190 Hosts.. meaning I can have 8190 on 224.0 Subnet

    Out in the real world How many switches and router do I need to deal with 8190 hosts? How would you setup a network with these many hosts..?

    Router-->SW1---SW2--->Sw3 etc? this is where I'm not being able to put to gether....I guess I need a diagram


    I understood on a smaller scale of 192.168.1.1/24
    One router could probably handle this 254 Hosts right?
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    Firemarshalbill.comFiremarshalbill.com Member Posts: 128
    And thats why we go to the next level VLSM - subnetting subnets

    Handbrake go to my linkedin page and download my IP Subnetting presentation I think it does a good job of simplifying the process for alot of the IP stuff. My students at ITT find it helps them alot. I am in the process of writing and publishing another white paper on the topic of VLSM icon_study.gif

    http://www.linkedin.com/in/firemarshalbill
    Go EVERTON

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    tech-airmantech-airman Member Posts: 953
    Handbrake wrote: »
    Default
    Class C mask is
    255.255.255.0
    Or prefix of /24bit of networks icon_cheers.gif and 8bit host


    Is the term Network Address, and Subnet Address the samething?

    Handbrake,

    What is the subnet mask for your computer again?
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    tech-airman wrote: »
    handbrake,

    what is the subnet mask for your computer again?

    255.255.255.0
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    HandbrakeHandbrake Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Tech Airman..i thought i got the math down but I guess not at 100%

    I took a test online and most stuff i could figured out but I have no idea how to get this one.
    Can you give me a formula for below question?

    The number of avalid subnets on 99.0.0.0/17
    network is

    Answer: 512
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    KPWrightKPWright Member Posts: 44 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Handbrake wrote: »
    Tech Airman..i thought i got the math down but I guess not at 100%

    I took a test online and most stuff i could figured out but I have no idea how to get this one.
    Can you give me a formula for below question?

    The number of avalid subnets on 99.0.0.0/17
    network is

    Answer: 512

    Handbrake, If you don't mind I'll take a stab at this and maybe somebody can check me on it.

    99.0.0.0 is a class A network so the first octet is dedicated. The remaining 24 bits are available to identify subnets / hosts. The 17 bit mask includes the 8 bits which identify the class A as well as 9 more that are "borrowed" to identify possible subnets. The number of available subnets is therefore 2^9 = 512.

    How'd I do?
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