CCIE R&S study group forming

notgoing2fail

ColbyG wrote: »

That's just my opinion though. The other interested parties may feel different.

I'm always up for learning new things. Even during my studies, I would venture out beyond the scope of the book just to "learn".

I don't mind eavesdropping and listening in on the group if you guy don't mind.

I can provide my thoughts if I have any that can help.

Otherwise, I would also understand if the group only prefers serious CCIE contenders, one's that can contribute as well as eavesdrop....

You know, full duplex.....transmit and receive.....

DPG

notgoing2fail wrote: »

It would be horrible if you're being taught my a CCIE who hasn't taken an exam since 2001 for example...

They have to recertify every two years.

ColbyG

DPG wrote: »

They have to recertify every two years.

Only the Written though, which doesn't really have much bearing on whether they could pass the lab.

Nuul

notgoing2fail wrote: »

What I meant was, is it possible to know that these vendors themselves have passed the latest and greatest CCIE exam? Not the students...

It would be horrible if you're being taught my a CCIE who hasn't taken an exam since 2001 for example...

Or for vendors to claim they can help you pass the latest exam, yet they don't even have any instructors who have taken the latest and passed...

That's what I meant.....

Ah, I understand now. Most of the proctors I've talked to retake the exam quite a lot just to make sure they are current. I know Marko Milivojevic passed the v4 R&S a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty sure Joe Astorino took it pretty early after they moved to v4, though I wouldn't swear to that. As for the guys at INE, if Scott Morris is still there he's almost definately taken it...the guy is a machine.

Nuul

ColbyG wrote: »

Someone needs to make the group so we can start moving.

I concur. Anyone know a freebie server we could use? Something like groupstudy.com and onlinestudylist.com but more private? Not that I'm opposed to random people joining, just that having the same GNS3 question asked for the 100th time by someone who just joined gets old real quick.

liven

Nuul wrote: »

A lot of us are finishing out CCNPs at the same time due to the July cut-off date. Since there seems to be a bit of interest in getting a CCIE R&S study group going I thought I'd ask here who else would like to join.

Reasons to join:

• You could be part of the select few (less than 1% of network professionals) who obtain a CCIE.
• Once you have obtained your digits you will need a larger office that can contain your awesomeness.
• This is a long, hard journey - you will need someone to encourage you when you feel like giving up.
• If you get stuck on your studies, someone in the group probably has a better knowledge of the subject than you and can help you understand.
• If you are *VERY* serious about this we can probably get group discounts from INE, IPexpert, etc if we attend class or practice lab together.

I'm going ahead full force with mine. The goal is to be ready for the mach lab by December-February and take the real lab two weeks after that.

So...who's with me.

Hey Nuul,

I think this is awesome... but you are saying study for 6 months, take written, and then 2 weeks later take the lab?

PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I am sure it can be done... But for most of us that is VERY aggressive.

I would absolutely love to join, my life revolves around cisco (and other major vendors) as a network engineer. But it has taken me about 1 and 1/2 years to pass all the CCNP tests ( almost done with ONT, passed the other 3)...

I don't want to put anyone on this forum down, but I think that pace might be a little out of reach for a lot of us.

For me, I work for a global ISP as a network Engineer... Been doing this for a while, but still this just seems aggressive... It could be the fact that I am married with a 1 year old daughter.


Once again I do not want to offend anyone, just wanted to throw this out there for discussion.

Bl8ckr0uter

notgoing2fail wrote: »

Well if that is the case then you can count me in. I'm always looking for a few good men....

Second.


I want more of the CCNP:R/S and CCNP:Sec (?) but I am down. The wife gave me the ok to go for it $$$

btowntech

I'll join. Might be handy to have a group to push me on during the days I want to be a slacker.

liven

Hey I know I just posted...

But I am just really kind of stuck on the pace of all of this and also the whole possibility of the "paper" cert thing happening...


I KNOW that CCIE Lab is not PAPER!!!!


But I have a very practical example to share... I work at a very large ISP. Every aspect of our business moves as fast as humanly possible (some times faster). The work is extremely demanding, very high tech and things change constantly. The team I am on is comprised of mostly very experienced, intelligent and driven people. HOwever we just hired another network engineer to join our group. He has 15 years of I.T. Experience, granted a lot of it is with Servers, but he also has a good deal of LAN experience AND, CCNA, CCNP and CCIE written (along with MSCE, and a tun of unix HP certs, BA in mechanical engineering and Masters in Mechanical engineering). During the interview, he was able to explain and answer all of the questions. For instance, we use a good deal of multicast, so we asked our new employee about multicast. He openly admitted he had no real world experience with multicast, he was able to explain in great detail how PIM, IGMP, sparse, and dense mode worked.... He was also able to go into very great detail about how OSPF, MPLS, and BGP work....

He was able to configure interfaces on a while board, and other common cisco tasks...

So being the strongest candidate on paper, and having a very good interview (multiple intervies) we hire this person.

Now he is on the job... and he can't do anything with out his hand being held... For some reason the person in the interview and the person we hired are not the same. The most trivial of tasks seem to be monumental for this person to perform. I do realize that the environment we work in is extremely advanced, and moves at a sickening pace. But you would think that someone with 15 years of high level experience and very reputable certifications would be able to hit the ground at least walking or maybe even at a brisk job. This poor fella hit the ground and fell flat on his face....

Long story short, I don't want that to happen to any of us.

AND once again let me qualify, if the techexams members have the experience or whatever it takes to back up the cert then that is awesome. And my rant may be a total waist of hot air. I am just trying to look out for all of us, and offer a little insight to what I am seeing happening around me.

On the flip side, we have hired a few guys that only have 4 or 5 years of experience (most of it LAN/WAN) and they are amazing. Able to step up the the plate with little or no training and make a massive contribution to the team. And this person only has a CCNA. But he makes our CCIE (written) employ look like a tier 1 person on their first day in the field.

So I am sure that a lot of this is up to the individual. I just want to make sure that as we make our way through this journey we can back up what our certifications say we can do.

Once again if I have offended or anything along those lines, I will delete this post.

Much love to techexams and the members!!!

ColbyG

nuul wrote: »

i concur. Anyone know a freebie server we could use? Something like groupstudy.com and onlinestudylist.com but more private? Not that i'm opposed to random people joining, just that having the same gns3 question asked for the 100th time by someone who just joined gets old real quick.

use google groups

notgoing2fail

liven wrote: »

Hey I know I just posted...

But I am just really kind of stuck on the pace of all of this and also the whole possibility of the "paper" cert thing happening...


I KNOW that CCIE Lab is not PAPER!!!!


But I have a very practical example to share... I work at a very large ISP. Every aspect of our business moves as fast as humanly possible (some times faster). The work is extremely demanding, very high tech and things change constantly. The team I am on is comprised of mostly very experienced, intelligent and driven people. HOwever we just hired another network engineer to join our group. He has 15 years of I.T. Experience, granted a lot of it is with Servers, but he also has a good deal of LAN experience AND, CCNA, CCNP and CCIE written (along with MSCE, and a tun of unix HP certs, BA in mechanical engineering and Masters in Mechanical engineering). During the interview, he was able to explain and answer all of the questions. For instance, we use a good deal of multicast, so we asked our new employee about multicast. He openly admitted he had no real world experience with multicast, he was able to explain in great detail how PIM, IGMP, sparse, and dense mode worked.... He was also able to go into very great detail about how OSPF, MPLS, and BGP work....

He was able to configure interfaces on a while board, and other common cisco tasks...

So being the strongest candidate on paper, and having a very good interview (multiple intervies) we hire this person.

Now he is on the job... and he can't do anything with out his hand being held... For some reason the person in the interview and the person we hired are not the same. The most trivial of tasks seem to be monumental for this person to perform. I do realize that the environment we work in is extremely advanced, and moves at a sickening pace. But you would think that someone with 15 years of high level experience and very reputable certifications would be able to hit the ground at least walking or maybe even at a brisk job. This poor fella hit the ground and fell flat on his face....

Long story short, I don't want that to happen to any of us.

AND once again let me qualify, if the techexams members have the experience or whatever it takes to back up the cert then that is awesome. And my rant may be a total waist of hot air. I am just trying to look out for all of us, and offer a little insight to what I am seeing happening around me.

On the flip side, we have hired a few guys that only have 4 or 5 years of experience (most of it LAN/WAN) and they are amazing. Able to step up the the plate with little or no training and make a massive contribution to the team. And this person only has a CCNA. But he makes our CCIE (written) employ look like a tier 1 person on their first day in the field.

So I am sure that a lot of this is up to the individual. I just want to make sure that as we make our way through this journey we can back up what our certifications say we can do.

Once again if I have offended or anything along those lines, I will delete this post.

Much love to techexams and the members!!!

I think this is a fantastic real world write up. I don't think anyone here is offended at all. I actually love hearing real world stories, doesn't matter what the outcome. Call it drama, doesn't matter, you can learn from every story.

Who knows what that guys deal was, it's hard for me to comprehend how someone can explain things so well in an interview with 15 years experience and yet shown no experience.

If he brain dumped his way, he would have had trouble in the interview process but that didn't happen, so definitely odd...


Again, everyone is different as you said, some guys just with CCNA are amazing.

I think the best we can do is to get this group up and just sail away. See where the chips fall. If some members have the time, energy and push to try to make things happen faster for them, then so be it, if some need to go at different paces, good for them as well...the group won't go away just because one member is behind or ahead....

Bluetorch

I'm in for joining the group. In fact, I've already started studying material for the CCIE.

Nuul, I do think you are a big further ahead of the game though. I know I won't be ready for the lab by February. I'm thinking the written within that period and then the lab sometime late fall/winter 2011.

Bl8ckr0uter

Google group made.

Google Groups

You guys were taking too long I would like to see if this is a good format for us. What do you think Null?

Just an idea of course...

liven

notgoing2fail wrote: »

I think this is a fantastic real world write up. I don't think anyone here is offended at all. I actually love hearing real world stories, doesn't matter what the outcome. Call it drama, doesn't matter, you can learn from every story.

Who knows what that guys deal was, it's hard for me to comprehend how someone can explain things so well in an interview with 15 years experience and yet shown no experience.

If he brain dumped his way, he would have had trouble in the interview process but that didn't happen, so definitely odd...


Again, everyone is different as you said, some guys just with CCNA are amazing.

I think the best we can do is to get this group up and just sail away. See where the chips fall. If some members have the time, energy and push to try to make things happen faster for them, then so be it, if some need to go at different paces, good for them as well...the group won't go away just because one member is behind or ahead....

Hey I totally agree!!!

I just want to make some of the things I see on the job known.

For me those that really take the time to learn, will always be able to achieve their dreams.


And I am very impressed with the goals set by this group. I to will join with one stipulation in all probability I will not be able to pass the lab 7 months from now. BUT, I am sure I will be smarter. And for me, when I am on the job and some fortune 500 company can't move the latest major code release from boston to london... No one on the conference call cares if I am CCNA/NP/IE... They just want their sh!!!t fixed. Having said that, studying for these certs for years combined with doing this stuff everyday has given me the tools to do my job.


Techexams rocks and so does all of it's members!!!!

ColbyG

knwminus wrote: »

Google group made.

Google Groups

You guys were taking too long I would like to see if this is a good format for us. What do you think Null?

Hate the name. With a passion.

Bl8ckr0uter

ColbyG wrote: »

Hate the name. With a passion.

Well Its late i've slept for 2 hours in the last 30.

What would you rather it be?

ColbyG

I replied to your PM. If I'm just being picky/whiny, I'll shut up. Let me know.

Bl8ckr0uter

ColbyG wrote: »

I replied to your PM. If I'm just being picky/whiny, I'll shut up. Let me know.

lol it is no big deal.

TenisuBaka

I would like to join guys! Although for me, CCIE is a slightly longer term goal as I want to get some more real world experience before actually getting my number, but I want to do the some of the studies now for sure.

qplayed

I'd love to join the group. However, as liven stated the "goals" seem a little up in the clouds. I'm not sure what kind of lab prep can be done in that short amount of time. You guys need to accoutn for life events.

I myself plan on taking at least 6 months prep for the written and taking CCIP along the way. For the lab I plan on making the attempt at the 17th month mark and taking a live bootcamp on the 16th month, 1 month before the actual lab. The group will just waste hard earned $$ by rushing into something of this caliber. In either case GL to all of you!

ColbyG

Can we not focus on other peoples' timelines? Someone's timeline doesn't concern me. You can tell a person that their goals are too ambitious or just plain crazy, but most of the time it falls on deaf ears.

I'm interested in grouping up with other CCIE candidates so we can learn from and help one another. If anyone else is interested, join the group.

qplayed

Sorry? maybe I read teh post wrong. It seemed as if it was a timeline for the group. If taht is not the case then I am for it. I can also donate rack time and a server if needed I'm still in the process of upgrading my gear but it should do for now.

Turgon

notgoing2fail wrote: »

Hmm perhaps my initial question was confusing regarding verifying...


What I meant was, is it possible to know that these vendors themselves have passed the latest and greatest CCIE exam? Not the students...

It would be horrible if you're being taught my a CCIE who hasn't taken an exam since 2001 for example...

Or for vendors to claim they can help you pass the latest exam, yet they don't even have any instructors who have taken the latest and passed...

That's what I meant.....

IMHO far too many people are hung up on vendors and their offerings. Most of the major vendors are now providing content that is inline with the blueprint objectives. I use technology guides, practice workbooks and mock exams from INE at the moment. When I began in 2007 I used the IPexpert workbook and will be returning to their materials in July.

The passing rate of R&S students was decimated by the lab changes late last year and remains low so if vendor materials were a significant factor in clearing the lab prior to that then they are less so now, in and of themselves.

But they are still useful things providing tutorial on technologies, helpful practical exercises and a study framework.

However there is something of a comfort that candidates seem to crave for by buying up multiple workbooks, CoD's, VoDs and just about everybook under the sun. Beware of this. Any materials you purchase need to be *used* and very regularly. My advice is to take a long term view on preparing for the lab exam. Take one vendors Vol1 workbook and work it over twice and take your time doing it. You can expect year 1 to be a foundation year and year 2 to be multprotocol lab prep year.

The milage varies greatly with candidates and this really depends on many things..

1. ability of the candidate
2. experience and opportunity at work to put learning into context
3. frequency of study sessions
4. quality of study
5. lifestyle management
6. determination
7. realism

7 is probably the lynchpin for most CCIE candidates. You need a lot of *gas* to get through the CCIE track. No vendor can sell you that. In fact no vendor can sell you anything on the above list. Even 'quality of study' is not down to the vendor. You could have excellent resources at your disposal but the vendor will not study for you.

One of the problems is we used to see a good number of candidates getting through the track inside one year. This is the exception rather than the rule and these tend to be people with a good deal of bandwidth at work to study regularly. There is nothing wrong with that and good luck to them I say but there is a temptation for people to make comparisons and shoot for the same timeline. If your job already makes severe demands of your time and attention span and if you have young children to come home to, then your study program needs to be flexible and realistic or you risk problems in both areas in your life. Staying up until 2am working some weird scenarios on racks straight after a very demanding day at work is not going to help you if you have an aggressive day ahead of you. You need rest.

By way of an example my studies have been measured against this backdrop and the incremental approach I have taken has helped me both at work and at home. Granted I am still not a CCIE, but should I take and pass the lab next week it wouldn't in and of itself suddenly make me more capable of solving my employers problems. I would just have passed a practical examination. But I do think the approach I have taken has finally enabled me to leverage everything the CCIE has to offer in terms of doing a better job in the field. I have learned many things very well the last three years and I have found elapsed time to reflect on some topics has helped there.

The other decision I made starting out was in terms of my perception of the CCIE's usefulness to my career. I dont think that has changed. For me, the CCIE was a supplementary thing that would add value to my *work*. For as long as I have been studying the track my responsibilities in the field have steadily escalated to a point where I have now for sometime been doing CCIE level work alongside both CCIE and non CCIE people. I think the approach I took to my studies has really helped me get there. By being patient I have learned things that have a context in my day to day work whilst at the same time my studies have not been a diversion which would have drained my ability to do my job properly. Even so, over 800 hours of configuration time isn't to be sniffed at regardless of how long it took to amass it. In fact I can say that the CCIE has never left my radar for any length of time over the last three years and even on downtime days I have probably turned a page or two of a book over or reflected on some aspect of the IOS. Starting out I realised that I would never again go through such an intense learning program as the CCIE. I was therefore determined to squeeze every bit out of it so that on completion it had really changed me in ways that were going to help me in my professional work for many years to come. So it has transpired and continues to this day.

Now all of that happens when you realise that the CCIE journey is a very personal thing. Work out what journey will *actually* work best for you and do that because the road to hell is paved with good intentions and there are garages all over the planet loaded with cisco gear and self study workbooks gathering dust until the burned out candidate finds a buyer! On study groups, they are helpful but generally they fizzle out

Nuul

ColbyG wrote: »

Can we not focus on other peoples' timelines? Someone's timeline doesn't concern me. You can tell a person that their goals are too ambitious or just plain crazy, but most of the time it falls on deaf ears.

I'm interested in grouping up with other CCIE candidates so we can learn from and help one another. If anyone else is interested, join the group.

You and I are on the same page. This is mainly to help each other out, thinking we'd all be on exactly the same time schedule is a bit much

I've already done the written so I'm slightly ahead of most already. All I really need to do is do some labbing to find out where I'm weak. After I've gotten comfortable with some of the topics I suck at (multicast, IPv6, ODR, etc) I'll take one of the 5 day mach labs where it's like taking the R&S lab multiple times. That should give me a real good feel for if I'm ready or not (and possibly drive me insane). If all is well and the proctors think I'm ready, I go knock out the lab. If I'm not I cancel my date and move it back.

Nuul

knwminus wrote: »

Google group made.

Google Groups

You guys were taking too long I would like to see if this is a good format for us. What do you think Null?

Just an idea of course...

Sorry, didn't see your PM until much later. I'd created a group already but we don't have to use it.

Group name: Packet Ninjas
* Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/packet-ninjas
* Group email address packet-ninjas@googlegroups.com

Anyone who wants to join PM me your email and I'll send you the invite. At the moment I have the group set to private & invite only, but once you're invited you can invite others.

notgoing2fail

Ok let's all confirm which group to use? Seems like we have two now.

Once we can all decide, I'll join...

Bl8ckr0uter

Nuul wrote: »

Sorry, didn't see your PM until much later. I'd created a group already but we don't have to use it.

Group name: Packet Ninjas
* Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/packet-ninjas
* Group email address packet-ninjas@googlegroups.com

Anyone who wants to join PM me your email and I'll send you the invite. At the moment I have the group set to private & invite only, but once you're invited you can invite others.

I like yours better. Lets use yours. Oh and PM sent for an invite.

liven

Nuul wrote: »

You and I are on the same page. This is mainly to help each other out, thinking we'd all be on exactly the same time schedule is a bit much

I've already done the written so I'm slightly ahead of most already. All I really need to do is do some labbing to find out where I'm weak. After I've gotten comfortable with some of the topics I suck at (multicast, IPv6, ODR, etc) I'll take one of the 5 day mach labs where it's like taking the R&S lab multiple times. That should give me a real good feel for if I'm ready or not (and possibly drive me insane). If all is well and the proctors think I'm ready, I go knock out the lab. If I'm not I cancel my date and move it back.

Hey man I really really dig your drive an passion. And have a ton of respect for setting a goal and trying to go for it.

I want to play to, hopefully I can help with discussions and I know I will learn stuff along the way.

I do the same thing. I set a date for a test, try like hell to make it by that date. And if I am not ready push it back and keep going.

Sorry if sounded negative.

LETS DO THIS!!!!

And, how can I help get the ball rolling????

Nuul

liven wrote: »

And, how can I help get the ball rolling????

Go to http://groups.google.com/group/packet-ninjas or PM me your email and I'll send you an invite.

notgoing2fail

Nuul wrote: »

Go to http://groups.google.com/group/packet-ninjas or PM me your email and I'll send you an invite.

PM sent. I'm in....