Stop Lying!

Forsaken_GA

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Well, how often is it the network, really?

If I actually believed my users? All the time!

Fortunately, I tend towards skepticism

Turgon

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

If I actually believed my users? All the time!

Fortunately, I tend towards skepticism

heheheh I know what you mean my friend!

it_consultant

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

If I actually believed my users? All the time!

Fortunately, I tend towards skepticism

Like I tell my junior guys, 99% of the time the problem is at the client computer. When its not, you will know because we will be in the midst of a riot.

eansdad

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Are you skilled at it (competent) or do you have to Google everything beyond "Hello Word"? I have a section in my resumes for things that I have exposure to but at which I am not skilled (Java, PHP, MySQL).

That is a good idea, thanks...

phoeneous

RobertKaucher wrote: »

If that conversation was how things actually went the fault is on the interviewer's head for not asking questions like: What is the T-SQL syntax for performing a backup and restore to/from disk? How would you restore a specific x (table, database to a point in time, etc)?

I've been using t-sql since 06 and have always backed/restored from gui and not a query, that doesn't necessarily count me out does it? And I've only ever written select statements, no update, insert, or delete. My problem is that I work with everything that I don't have time to focus on just one thing. A perfect example yesterday, the cfo asked me to write a query to retrieve sensitive financial information. This query was composed of about 10 tables and a mixture of inner and outer joins. That same day I configured a 2911 for our mpls/bgp migration and I setup a 2960 stack for the first time. I also looked up some stuff using dnslint and modified our gpo scripts to accomodate new AD security groups. Am I an expert at anything? Hell no. If you ask me to do something, will I do it in an expertly fashion? I'll try my best but I might need some search engine help on the way. Maybe I do need to specialize at something...

Claymoore

I take a different approach to technical interviews. If I have to start asking you specific syntax questions, you have probably already failed.

I will go through your resume and call out project experience that matches areas we are looking for and ask you to tell me stories about those projects. Why did you do it? What were the challenges? How did you overcome them? Any creative solutions you are proud of? I will give you the opportunity to tell me more about your technical abilities than I could gather by asking direct questions. I can also see how well you communicate and if you can explain and sell your ideas.

Some of these interviews are painful. I try not to reveal my areas of expertise and I have to suffer through explanations of technical processes that I have performed multiple times as if I were a manager hearing it for the first time. Other times people just can't explain anything about the project because their involvement in the 3000 seat GroupWise-to-Exchange migration they list on their resume was as a helpdesk analyst reinstalling Outlook. I have had some of these people beg me to start asking them any questions so they can display their knowledge, and they fail those because I will not ask easy questions. I have given other candidates enough rope to hang themselves and heard gems such as 'Windows 7 works better than Vista because it was built off the XP kernel' or 'Exchange 2010 is more efficient because it now runs SQL as its database'. I would not have asked those types of questions, but thanks for playing.

Other interviews are great. I have led technical interviews that were scheduled for 30 minutes (even though I tell the recruiter I need at least an hour) that lasted 2 hours. We got pretty deep in the weeds in some areas, and by the time we were finished I was confident in the candidates' knowledge of areas in which they claimed to be experts.

RobertKaucher

phoeneous wrote: »

I've been using t-sql since 06 and have always backed/restored from gui and not a query, that doesn't necessarily count me out does it? And I've only ever written select statements, no update, insert, or delete. My problem is that I work with everything that I don't have time to focus on just one thing. A perfect example yesterday, the cfo asked me to write a query to retrieve sensitive financial information. This query was composed of about 10 tables and a mixture of inner and outer joins. That same day I configured a 2911 for our mpls/bgp migration and I setup a 2960 stack for the first time. I also looked up some stuff using dnslint and modified our gpo scripts to accomodate new AD security groups. Am I an expert at anything? Hell no. If you ask me to do something, will I do it in an expertly fashion? I'll try my best but I might need some search engine help on the way. Maybe I do need to specialize at something...

You would not likely be applying for a DBA position, though. And I imagine if you were you would make sure you brushed up on those things you are unfamiliar with.

PPforLife

OK, im "new" to the IT field, been working for a PC shop for two years now. i was wondering if i install, config windows XP, Vista, 7 and drivers, how should i list them.

I dont have any MS certs that was mentioned above.

Is it lying, if i list it as a "technical knowledge" and cant answer a question during the interview or does the lying comes in when im trying to answer it, and i have no idea what im talking.

Is it better, just to say i dont know that area of the program OR is it lying when you subject the program under "skill set" (writing up my resume now, and I'm just wondering whats the proper way of listing something)

erpadmin

I think the best BS artist, hands down, is Frank Abagnale, of Catch Me if You Can fame. If he were going for an IT job, he'd get it....lmao! I really didn't want to watch that movie as I really couldn't stand Leonardo DiCaprio, but I have to say, that's a personal favorite of mine.

Even if you get folks that lie during an interview and the BS is fallen for, that's why there's a 90-180 day probation period. That's the period that you weed folks out if you did not do it at the interview. I have seen a few people let go after the probation period.

Otherwise, to paraphrase from another post, it will take an Act of God to remove someone.

Hypntick

it_consultant wrote: »

Google is my best friend, I see the opposite problem. People banging their head against the wall trying to fix something when all they have to do is research the problem a little bit.

Yeah I saw this happen today actually. I work for a MSP, some of our clients do have their own IT staff from time to time. Guy calls up with a quick-books issue, has done a fresh install, moved the client data files to another server, rebooted the server a half a dozen times, changed more settings than I knew quick-books had. If he had researched the error message he was getting, the very first result would have been his answer that took 10 minutes to implement.

MickQ

Claymoore wrote: »

I take a different approach to technical interviews. If I have to start asking you specific syntax questions, you have probably already failed.

I will go through your resume and call out project experience that matches areas we are looking for and ask you to tell me stories about those projects.

Ah yes. The old let's share war stories. Actually, that's a very good way to do it. If they are bluffing, it's easier to catch them out. It'll also give a good idea of their real experience.

PPforLife wrote: »

OK, im "new" to the IT field, been working for a PC shop for two years now. i was wondering if i install, config windows XP, Vista, 7 and drivers, how should i list them.

Depends on what exactly you've done. If it was click "next" all the time, then that's basic PC tech installation - well setup, really.

erpadmin

MickQ wrote: »

Ah yes. The old let's share war stories. Actually, that's a very good way to do it. If they are bluffing, it's easier to catch them out. It'll also give a good idea of their real experience.

One should always keep at least three of those war stories in the [mental] backpocket. One war story I have is how I helped diagnose and fix a user's multi-million dollar f'up. (Not an exageration....the user swore to her VP it was IT's (my) fault...had real fun when I proved otherwise, but then we had to save the day...which we did. )

I have the emails to prove it

Point being though is that an interview isn't always gonna be "What's a show command?" Or "What needs to be setup to install Active Directory?" You're gonna need something qualitative to backup your quantitative technical experience.

it_consultant

MickQ wrote: »

Ah yes. The old let's share war stories. Actually, that's a very good way to do it. If they are bluffing, it's easier to catch them out. It'll also give a good idea of their real experience.






Depends on what exactly you've done. If it was click "next" all the time, then that's basic PC tech installation - well setup, really.

If you are interviewing for high level guys, call them on a project they did and ask for what issues came up during the project that were not planned for and how they resolved it. This will tell you whether they simply studied the MS guidelines or if they actually did it. Projects always hit a snag and if they are able to tell you how they massaged out those snags (and it doesn't sound like bull) then that is your guy. You can also get a sense of how they deal under pressure. There are a lot of IT guys who get so flustered when something happens that they weren't expecting that they are practically useless.

Ahriakin

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Well, how often is it the network, really?

Since the running quote up and down our hallway is "Its the firewall", and I've shamed the devs enough times for them to now do it sheepishly/jokingly I hung this on my door for a week - an RFC backed illustration of how it's really "Packets over Avian Carriers" with the addition of the Evil-Bit setting that is the culprit. For some bizarre reason it made my point better than years of proof

MickQ

That is quality.

I've come across one instance where it wasn't the users. It actually turned out to be the firewall. Yeah, it was network related! Took me a while to get over that.

BroadcastStorm

Most of this incompetent so called IT ughhh such a shame, is very good at politics covering their ass and throwing you under the bus if they cannot fix stuff lol.

If they cannot be good at the job they will most likely be an expert at other areas, such as BS'ing, good social skills, and kissing major ass, I tend to avoid them to be honest since trouble is spelled all over if you try to smoke the gopher's out.

To be quite honest I'm quite tired of working with this people, I don't care if someone doesn't have any knowledge as long their not cocky, arrogant, and they think their top dogs that wants to command you around yet when you ask em simple stuff ummmm I will get back to you let me check google.

When they don't know jack ****, and they just try to learn from others, sorry to rant this is the case on our new senior network admin who doesn't know how to run basic troubleshooting he gets along very well with the network supervisor who is extremely unaware of what network is so easy to find out this people so the competent IT personnel have to create a Grade 1 level change control step-by-step more like dummies change control - I went and walked to the data center, unplug the cable, I then pressed the power button, and heard a humming sound coming from this so blue rectangular shaped box type of cc, who are they fooling? they want this because they don't know **** and they want to be educated.

He's been ruining alot of applications, good thing he does not have access on the network side, took him to 1 1/2 days to figure out an issue with 1 user host, basic network stuff actually I have to take care of the issue for this guy took me 15 minutes to get to the bottom of it and ultimately closed it he gaved up, and the title is senior really???

It upsets me so I would rather stay away from them and avoid them at all cost, this are the people that are so called IT that keeps me stressed.

BroadcastStorm

Birds of same feathers flocks together FAKERS!!! ughhh I am not the type of person who usually stays quiet when I smell BS in my case I will have to learn to keep my mouth shut.

GPO disables CMD

SENIOR FAKER: I don't know how to find out if that hostname/IP address belongs to that host that's why I dumped it on you.

"The" Network Engineer: After hearing his BS for 1 month and getting tired of taking care of his slack responded you didn't know how to ask the user over the phone to unplug the network cable in the back while running a continous ping on your machine?

Anyway guys this place is a great way to vent out, I would really stay quiet from here on before it costs me my job, and avoid them...

My question is how do you form a good working relationship with them? the other competent IT guy is already avoiding him, I think I already answered my own question keep it simple and just ignore them, I mean seriously it's not hard to crack open a book or wach a video at night, I am goddamn ignoring this faker from here on...

BroadcastStorm

Anyway guys I highly encourage everyone to have this valuable tools amongs your other tools at work.

You simply press the button when a bullshitter talks to you, and the tool will do all the talking save you from being stressed...

Amazon.com: R-Rated BS Detector Megaphone Siren & Sound Effect: Toys & Games

lol just kidding, to the OP this tool automatically alarms you when the BS detected, great for interviews haha :P

Firecell

Daniel333 wrote: »

1) So a guy I am interviewing for a tier level 1 system admin spot have "Linux" as a job skill listed and under his work experience "administed a cluster of Apache servers under Debian" for two years.

So I spun my laptop around and asked him to set the ip address on my laptop (runs Ubuntu 10.04) he then stated "that wasn't really his area". The jerk has Linux+ on his resume too!

2) Interviewing for an another level 1 lan operations, but we needed some minor CCNA level Cisco skills. The guy goes on about he is "starting his CCNP" and how he installed DS3 lines and bla blah. So I asked him "How do you backup a router config?". He had some dance here and I gave him another chance "Tell why you use a vlan?" he then went on about how design wasn't something he did. Sigh...

3) Desktop support guy, A+ and MCDST cert I asked him "what does msconfig do?" he didn't know. I asked him what tools he had used to for malware and all he said was Symantec. Lastly he had "highly experienced in Ghost" so I asked him how ghost worked? He had no idea.

This is pathetic and really funny! Do you have any other examples to share?

jamesp1983

rsutton wrote: »

I've actually had co-workers tell me that they put all kinds of frivolous stuff on their resume. One guy claimed that if he could get "lucky" on the interview questions he would learn what was needed as he went. Almost all the people I know like this are currently unemployed or not working in IT.

I knew a guy who had a lot of experience, but no certs. He would lie about having a bunch. He was on my team and made what I made. That was frustrating. Catching brain dumpers and liars are my favorite things to do in an interview.

jamesp1983

phantasm wrote: »

I had to explain to an Engineer what router on a stick was. Sad really.

wow, did you kick him out?

jamesp1983

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

someone should filter them through phone. lol
I would shake their hand right away and tell them "we will call you".

A thorough prescreening process would weed out a lot of these guys. I've had a few CCIEs interview me recently and they hit me with questions from all over the networking spectrum. I haven't even met with a manager yet (just team leads). (after 3 technical screens, and a test) It is a high paying job, but they know by the time you get to the hiring manager that you must know what you're doing (at least for the most part). I meet the manager on Monday, but he can be confident that, for the most part, my technical skills are where they need to be. All of the network engineering jobs I've applied to have had either a test or multiple tech screens. This will cut down on your frustration as well. Hope it helps!

Blackout

I work in the US Navy in a field that isn't related to IT, or computers whatso ever, so i have been studying for my CCENT, allot of people knew What i was studying for so i get allot of people at work asking me all kinds of questions about certifications. I have this guy walk up to me basically telling me he heard i was studying for CCNA, he goes on this long drawn out rant about how he is an IT, he picked up the Tood lammle's network+ book off my desk, was looking through it saying how he knew everything in the book, then goes on to state he feels he is ready for the CCNA, Ok so how good at CLI are you? Im really good at CLI, i go on to ask him what simulator or lab he was using for practice and such, his answer..........wireshark.

My response: You sound ready! Wish i was in your shoes....

*please ignore my grammar this is from my ipad*

phoeneous

jamesp1983 wrote: »

A thorough prescreening process would weed out a lot of these guys. I've had a few CCIEs interview me recently and they hit me with questions from all over the networking spectrum. I haven't even met with a manager yet (just team leads). (after 3 technical screens, and a test) It is a high paying job, but they know by the time you get to the hiring manager that you must know what you're doing (at least for the most part). I meet the manager on Monday, but he can be confident that, for the most part, my technical skills are where they need to be. All of the network engineering jobs I've applied to have had either a test or multiple tech screens. This will cut down on your frustration as well. Hope it helps!

What sorts of questions did they ask you?

Everyone

My manager sent me a few resumes to look through. We're hiring a 1 year contract position to back fill for my team so we can focus on the migration to Exchange 2010. You'd think the contract agency would screen these before sending them to us. I'm convinced that their screening consists of "Does resume contain the word 'Exchange' in it? If yes, send."

I assisted with the 1st interview yesterday. The candidate's resume said "10+ years experience" at the top, but the experience section went back 16 years. At the start of the interview when we asked her to go over her resume, she told us she had 22+ years experience. Ok so which is it?

She had Exchange listed quit a few times on her resume, but kept talking about Lotus Notes more than anything. When it was my turn to ask some technical questions, I asked:

"You have an Exchange 2003 server with a local delivery queue that is backing up, and now has several hundred messages queued. What is the most likely cause of this, and how would you troubleshoot it?"

Silence. Then a few minutes later "I haven't worked with Exchange in over 2 years." Ok, so this most recent job you have listed in 2009, was that the last time you worked with it? "Yes, I've been unemployed for 2 years." Ok and how long did you work with Exchange? "Well the first time I worked with it was in 2006, and I always had an engineer that would take care of those sort of server problems."

I have a feeling the next few interviews are going to be even worse. Most of them have Exchange listed as a skill, but no demonstrated experience with it anywhere else on the resume.

undomiel

This sounds almost exactly like my experience with my first time interviewing a guy for the company I'm with. He'd reply to everything with "Oh we would escalate that to Microsoft." Never got a straight answer for even the simplest questions.

briangl

If honesty counted for anything, I would have been working in the IT field long ago. I actually got to the point where I thought it was because I am so honest I can not get anyone to hire me. I do not pad my resume. I list my education and certifications and work experience. Almost none of it IT related.

I have always been a hard working, conscientious, caring employee, have always seen myself as hard working family man. I am educated in other areas besides IT. My focus has been in IT. I don’t have a degree, but consider myself educated. I love to read and study. I love to help people with computers and network issues, when the opportunity arises.

I am aware that people pad their resumes and started thinking maybe I should too, but that is so contrary to my basic nature I won’t do it. It’s been my experience that employers want experience, period! I keep thinking “maybe this next certification will be the one that gets me hired.” I really thought my CCNA would “open doors.” But, that’s just more education, not on the job experience.

Now it is time to renew my CCNA and still don’t have a job in the IT field. It has led to a lot of frustration and stress. I’m kind of at a loss at this point and don’t know what to do.

lsud00d

Try short-term contract jobs to work with different technologies...but don't give up! Good luck man

jamesp1983

phoeneous wrote: »

What sorts of questions did they ask you?

They asked questions from all over the networking spectrum. Practical and text book types. BGP Path influence, STP (rstp vs stp, uplinkfast, backbonefast, not really what they are but what's your experience with them and what did you use them for), how do networks work (routers vs switches, what happens to l2 header,etc), IOS commands, troubleshooting process for problem x, how would you design Y, what would I use an OSPF NSSA for, etc. The second CCIE (network engineering team lead) said he likes to weed out people who try to bs by just bringing up topics and having the person explain when they've used it, how, and what it accomplished. He would just give me talking points and then grill me on why I did something one way and not another, and what is that feature, how else could I have done it, etc. They were fast paced, too. They would start out high level then dive deep. (timers, eigrp k values, etc).

Turgon

Daniel333 wrote: »

I have to vent.

Alright, here is the thing. I run technical interviews for engineers for my company. And I personally run an paid intern department. So clearly I do a lot of interviews. Especially as we are on a hiring spree right now.

I am sooo sick of half truths and lies on resume. I have become quite angry when I walk into an interview I am running.

1) So a guy I am interviewing for a tier level 1 system admin spot have "Linux" as a job skill listed and under his work experience "administed a cluster of Apache servers under Debian" for two years.

So I spun my laptop around and asked him to set the ip address on my laptop (runs Ubuntu 10.04) he then stated "that wasn't really his area". The jerk has Linux+ on his resume too!

I understand where you are coming from.

To be fair, I have worked with a large number of UNIX types in the past and not all were very familiar with the networking side of the boxes. netstat -rnv, static routes, plumbing in interfaces. Clueless some of them. Patching and disk partitioning yes. As for the situation on CVs I suppose in a tough economy people will embellish. We all need to earn a living.

For the senior engineer job, ask him how he would pin down, isolate and fix a spanning-tree on a large network.