Cisco To Fire 10,000 People

Forsaken_GA

Lizano wrote: »

Cisco is still a long way from not being the key player in the networking world imho. Especially in R&S, you might see Juniper and other vendors like Fortinet and Checkpoint winning some market in Security, but Cisco still has a good share in it. You may see sip and asterisk basked solutions gaining ground in VoIP, but Cisco still has its good share in it. And in R&S, I'm not as familiar with other vendors but I don't see anybody kicking Cisco out of the lead shortly, except for ProCurve in switching, which I do think will happen sooner that later.

Juniper has a huge presence in the service provider world, especially when it comes to routing, but they're making inroads into the Enterprise market. The Enterprise is still Cisco's bread and better, but yeah, folks like Brocade and HP are not making it easy on them.

The end result is that we're likely to see prices on Cisco gear drop as well. At some point they're going to have to realize that large portions of their market have become commoditized, and the margins they expect are simply unrealistic. Not everyone can get away with being Apple.

It wouldn't surprise me to see prices on gear drop, but prices on the service contracts rise.

And by the same token, do not underestimate the power of Cisco certification. There's a whole lot of Cisco certified people out there, and that *does* have an effect on purchasing and hiring.

Cisco's made a few bad steps, and just like with Microsoft, the competition has capitalized on those to grow their own share. Whether or not they have the agility to recover, time will tell. I live about 2 miles from what used to be the Scientific Atlanta campus, I see the Cisco sign every time I go to work. I'm wondering if that campus will stay open (that was another acquisition which hasn't paid off the way Cisco had hoped)

Turgon

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

And by the same token, do not underestimate the power of Cisco certification. There's a whole lot of Cisco certified people out there, and that *does* have an effect on purchasing and hiring.

It does and will for sometime to come. Lots of Cisco to support but I think this companies best days are behind them now. There were a lot of CNEs in the nineties with a publishing boom supporting all the people who wanted to get qualified in Netware. They are pretty quiet now.

shodown

Turgon wrote: »

It does and will for sometime to come. Lots of Cisco to support but I think this companies best days are behind them now. There were a lot of CNEs in the nineties with a publishing boom supporting all the people who wanted to get qualified in Netware. They are pretty quiet now.

This is what I was thinking. I remember guys talking about how the use to be the cert to have, by the time I got into IT I never saw it in production.

tpatt100

Dumb question here but is learning Juniper much different than Cisco? I would think having a background in one or the other would make learning something else a lot easier?

onesaint

tpatt100 wrote: »

Dumb question here but is learning Juniper much different than Cisco? I would think having a background in one or the other would make learning something else a lot easier?

ARP, RIP, IS-IS, OSPF, BGP. Same protocols different vendor. An example, HP accepts CCN* as a path to upgrade to their certs.

Forsaken_GA

tpatt100 wrote: »

Dumb question here but is learning Juniper much different than Cisco? I would think having a background in one or the other would make learning something else a lot easier?

It's alot like programming. There are some differences, but the protocols are the protocols, and assuming the vendor followed the standard, they all work the same way. It's just the syntax that changes.

higherho

I agree some defense contractors / govt people just collect a paycheck. But there are quite a few great people left in contracting. The senior SA who is teaching me before he leaves for a year has his Enterprise Admin certification and has some great troubleshooting skills.


You are not going to know everything, their will be times were you forget the simplest of things because you are working on very complex designs / ideas. I agree you should know the basics of what you are working with and if you have a hard time remembering something then look it up! An Administrator who keeps learning and improving himself is much better than an Administrator who has an ego.

tpatt100 wrote: »

Dumb question here but is learning Juniper much different than Cisco? I would think having a background in one or the other would make learning something else a lot easier?

Like my one Cisco professor told me. Switching is Switching and routing is routing. You will have your proprietary stuff but I seen CCNP/CCIE's go in a juniper environment and design their network. If you know networking well enough you can learn any vendors specific ways.

shodown

Its just time for JOHN to go. He's been at the helm since 95. A lot of people are calling for his head. I don't know who can fill his shoes, but its time for some new thinking.

NOC-Ninja

IMO the best part in Cisco is their TAC. Their employees can fix the whole network in a day or two. Its unbelievable!

I wonder if HP and Juniper does the same thing?

Forsaken_GA

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

IMO the best part in Cisco is their TAC. Their employees can fix the whole network in a day or two. Its unbelievable!

I wonder if HP and Juniper does the same thing?

Can't speak for HP, but all of my experiences with JTAC have been positive.

unclerico

I've got my CCNP:R&S and when I had the pleasure of bidding out our new core project Juniper came in at 1/3 of the cost just on hardware alone. Needless to say we went with Juniper even though I never had even two seconds of console time in my career. It was definitely a change but now that I've had a few months time I like JunOS probably more than IOS. At the end of the day a switch switches and a router routes. We use Cisco Industrial Ethernet switches where we need rugged devices. We use Palo Alto for firewalls, Aerohive for wireless, and Mitel for voice.

CCIEWANNABE

I know alot of Senior Engineers that have deployed and are some of the sharpest guys in the field. I know alot of people think all DoD contractors are dumb, but I'll be the first to stand up for my friends and co-workers on this issue.

As far as DoD Contractor cuts, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I don't think we'll be out of the middle east anytime soon. We will just keep shifting troops around. Again, I have learned that working as a contactor is a more stable job than working on the outside in some situations.

A security clearance, especially at the Top Secret/SCI level is like earning the CCIE and other elite I.T. Certifications and will help you obtain very hard to get jobs for good DoD Agencys.

To those who don't know, if you can get a TS/SCI and have been in the field for 5-10 years and have a few certs, 100k for a salary is not uncommon in the midwest. $150k is not uncommon for the east/west coasts. And if you have a TS/SCI and the CCIE, well you can guess on the outcome of that scenario

Just wanted to clarify a few things, because I have a lot of friends that are contractors and they are really good guys.

Thanks and have a good day!

shodown

CCIEWANNABE wrote: »

I know alot of Senior Engineers that have deployed and are some of the sharpest guys in the field. I know alot of people think all DoD contractors are dumb, but I'll be the first to stand up for my friends and co-workers on this issue.

As far as DoD Contractor cuts, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I don't think we'll be out of the middle east anytime soon. We will just keep shifting troops around. Again, I have learned that working as a contactor is a more stable job than working on the outside in some situations.

A security clearance, especially at the Top Secret/SCI level is like earning the CCIE and other elite I.T. Certifications and will help you obtain very hard to get jobs for good DoD Agencys.

To those who don't know, if you can get a TS/SCI and have been in the field for 5-10 years and have a few certs, 100k for a salary is not uncommon in the midwest. $150k is not uncommon for the east/west coasts. And if you have a TS/SCI and the CCIE, well you can guess on the outcome of that scenario

Just wanted to clarify a few things, because I have a lot of friends that are contractors and they are really good guys.

Thanks and have a good day!

If I remember correctly you worked on the DISA Plantation which of course had to have some of the best engineers there and when you worked with outside agencies I'm sure the IT idiot didn't give you guys a call.


Also Obama has called for 400 Billion in DOD cuts and Leon Panetta has been brought in as the SECDEF. Guess what his speciality his Budgeting, I expect him to tighten the waistline of the DOD over the next few years.

L0gicB0mb508

CCIEWANNABE wrote: »

I know alot of Senior Engineers that have deployed and are some of the sharpest guys in the field. I know alot of people think all DoD contractors are dumb, but I'll be the first to stand up for my friends and co-workers on this issue.

As far as DoD Contractor cuts, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I don't think we'll be out of the middle east anytime soon. We will just keep shifting troops around. Again, I have learned that working as a contactor is a more stable job than working on the outside in some situations.

A security clearance, especially at the Top Secret/SCI level is like earning the CCIE and other elite I.T. Certifications and will help you obtain very hard to get jobs for good DoD Agencys.

To those who don't know, if you can get a TS/SCI and have been in the field for 5-10 years and have a few certs, 100k for a salary is not uncommon in the midwest. $150k is not uncommon for the east/west coasts. And if you have a TS/SCI and the CCIE, well you can guess on the outcome of that scenario

Just wanted to clarify a few things, because I have a lot of friends that are contractors and they are really good guys.

Thanks and have a good day!

I've worked several contracts for various agencies and I can say DoD was about the worst. Now, don't get me wrong, there were some awesome people there. DISA I'm sure has some awesome engineers, but a lot of the lower level engineers that are deployed aren't all that talented. It also greatly depends on the company you are working for/with. I did notice when I went through the interview process this time, it was significantly harder than the last time I went through it. They were also much more picky about certs.

Turgon

CCIEWANNABE wrote: »

I know alot of Senior Engineers that have deployed and are some of the sharpest guys in the field. I know alot of people think all DoD contractors are dumb, but I'll be the first to stand up for my friends and co-workers on this issue.

As far as DoD Contractor cuts, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I don't think we'll be out of the middle east anytime soon. We will just keep shifting troops around. Again, I have learned that working as a contactor is a more stable job than working on the outside in some situations.

A security clearance, especially at the Top Secret/SCI level is like earning the CCIE and other elite I.T. Certifications and will help you obtain very hard to get jobs for good DoD Agencys.

To those who don't know, if you can get a TS/SCI and have been in the field for 5-10 years and have a few certs, 100k for a salary is not uncommon in the midwest. $150k is not uncommon for the east/west coasts. And if you have a TS/SCI and the CCIE, well you can guess on the outcome of that scenario

Just wanted to clarify a few things, because I have a lot of friends that are contractors and they are really good guys.

Thanks and have a good day!

I was a contractor myself for over seven years. It's like anything else. You will certainly find quality people in public or private sector. But there is a lot of waste in the public sector and the money spent on defence is unsustainable and lining the pockets of too many vested interests at the expense of tax dollars. The game is up there. There will be cuts. The good defence contractors will find work in the private sector, as for many others the private sector neither wants them or needs them.

Turgon

Lizano wrote: »

One exam away from it, but life has taught me to live by the rule, you need to have multivendor knowledge in a multivendor world. Even at "all cisco shops" you eventually have to deal with a border equipment that is provided by another vendor.

Cisco is still a long way from not being the key player in the networking world imho. Especially in R&S, you might see Juniper and other vendors like Fortinet and Checkpoint winning some market in Security, but Cisco still has a good share in it. You may see sip and asterisk basked solutions gaining ground in VoIP, but Cisco still has its good share in it. And in R&S, I'm not as familiar with other vendors but I don't see anybody kicking Cisco out of the lead shortly, except for ProCurve in switching, which I do think will happen sooner that later.

I'm expecting Cisco to come and play in the UTM market, I'm suprised they haven't yet. I suspect they are loosing a bit of the SMB share in that arena. I'm no expert though.

Exactly. As much as I like Cisco far too many people have become blinkered. I have said for a number of years you need to be open minded and look at all the options carefully when you design and deploy network solutions. Most of the environments I have worked have been mixed and many companies now are shifting away from Cisco. Presently Im leading an MPLS design and deploy on Brocade. There are strong careers in the offing if you have serious multivendor experience as you need the right people to handle major migration work. Get some.

cxzar20

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

IMO the best part in Cisco is their TAC. Their employees can fix the whole network in a day or two. Its unbelievable!

I wonder if HP and Juniper does the same thing?

That certainly hasn't been my experience, TAC has really gone to hell in recent years. Perhaps it is the fact that their escalation and senior guys leave and aren't replaced. It will only get worse with this news. I have been told on numerous occasions that "we don't know". This isn't what I look for when paying for vendor support. The only way to get any real answers through TAC is to make a lot of noise with your account manager and hopefully you will get one of the few good TAC guys left.

Akiii

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

With that being said, as long as your CCIE wasn't on the Flip camera track, I think you'll be fine. .

I Lol'd

Turgon

cxzar20 wrote: »

That certainly hasn't been my experience, TAC has really gone to hell in recent years. Perhaps it is the fact that their escalation and senior guys leave and aren't replaced. It will only get worse with this news. I have been told on numerous occasions that "we don't know". This isn't what I look for when paying for vendor support. The only way to get any real answers through TAC is to make a lot of noise with your account manager and hopefully you will get one of the few good TAC guys left.

TAC has gone to pieces. It's not just Cisco though. I can recall on detailed calls with Sun 10 years ago and they really gave me lots of help getting Volume Manager off a couple of Enterprise E450's. Same for Microsoft support when I had Exchange performance issues back in 2002. Similarly an SMS instructor gave me lots of phone help back in 1999, as did Arcserve support in 1998 and Toshiba with laptop upgrades in 1998. The quality has disolved and many good people have either left, been replaced or laid off. We will never see such quality support again.

higherho

Not to go into to much detail but it has been reported that a majority of certain agencies within the DOD have less than 30% of technical people on there teams. Defense contractors will not go to the wayside because their are not as many IT folk as you all might think. In a conference with DISA leaders even stated that roughly 75% of DISA are not technical and they plan on changing that.

The people that will get hurt the most are the paper pushers.

millworx

Yeah these numbers are all over the place. Some sites say 10k others say 4 or 5. Regardless, it's got me holding onto the edge of my seat. I think I'm safe as I am in a underfunded department which is vital to the companies core. And I'm the only one with knowledge, and the only line of support of the 800 routers / switches I administer. They would have to have me do a TOI prior to a layoff. So I think *crosses fingers* I am safe, I'll crap my pants if they start asking me to train an Indian guy. And not being racists here, but a good 80% of their workforce here is Indian, I am a minority. Most of the guys I work with are all here on H1B.

phoeneous

So is trying to get a security clearance pointless right now?

WafflesAndRootbeer

phoeneous wrote: »

So is trying to get a security clearance pointless right now?

No. Security Clearance = Job if you have the skills and experience but you have to be willing to trade off things in order to really work it. For example, moving around from time to time is something that you really need to be completely open to if you want to make the most of your clearance and be continuously employed.

powerfool

So, did anyone see the announcement on the new Cat 6500 Sup 2T that supports a 2TBit backplane, and 4 TBit with a VSS setup, and the new 10GBit line cards. Cisco is taking aim at HP, specifically. I suppose they are just tightening up and preparing for the next move.

Turgon

millworx wrote: »

Yeah these numbers are all over the place. Some sites say 10k others say 4 or 5. Regardless, it's got me holding onto the edge of my seat. I think I'm safe as I am in a underfunded department which is vital to the companies core. And I'm the only one with knowledge, and the only line of support of the 800 routers / switches I administer. They would have to have me do a TOI prior to a layoff. So I think *crosses fingers* I am safe, I'll crap my pants if they start asking me to train an Indian guy. And not being racists here, but a good 80% of their workforce here is Indian, I am a minority. Most of the guys I work with are all here on H1B.

Nothing racist about a factual statement. A lot of the big companies have done that and will continue to do so. It is one of the reasons why a career in operations is under threat for many westerners.

Turgon

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

No. Security Clearance = Job if you have the skills and experience but you have to be willing to trade off things in order to really work it. For example, moving around from time to time is something that you really need to be completely open to if you want to make the most of your clearance and be continuously employed.

I think security jobs will take a clattering over the next five years. It's ballooned and the expense is unsustainable. Even if you are a top player in security any prevailing cuts will impact you one way or another and the market is awash with wannabies. If company budgets tighten they will try to do more with less, or hire less expensive people to do more. Try and get some private sector experience if you can before you jump into government work. I fear there will be many govt contractors hitting the streets over the next few years with a clearance and more or less the same sort of work experience. They will want private sector work.

shodown

I know people from India seem to be the big pointing finger, but the reality is that a lot of corps have already decided to close up shop and move to the PI, and other places that already have a basic understanding of the English language.


Expect to see more people from other countries filling the support role as India is on the verge of becoming to expensive to outsource too.

NOC-Ninja

shodown wrote: »

I know people from India seem to be the big pointing finger, but the reality is that a lot of corps have already decided to close up shop and move to the PI, and other places that already have a basic understanding of the English language.


Expect to see more people from other countries filling the support role as India is on the verge of becoming to expensive to outsource too.

move to the PI? what's PI?

shodown

philippines

NOC-Ninja

shodown wrote: »

philippines

are you from there?