Gave up on IT, but good luck everyone!

jjbrog

I got a Associates degree in May of this year as a Network Admin. I've been looking and responding to job adds for months, and for someone without an IT work history, the entry level offers SUCK BAD! These employers expect someone to actually accept a offer for $9-$11 an hour? I mean really if it was a no experience required, no degree required etc, I could understand that would be reasonable, but no one should go through 2+ years of college and end up making such a low unlivable wage, it's a slap in the face. Anyone can say "but, you're inexperienced" all you want but, I did the classes, I did the assignments, I scored a final GPA of 3.86. I'd say it may not be work experience, but its academic experience, and it takes someone who knows what they are doing to manage almost straight A's. I'm not depressed cause of it, actually, I have another road to follow. I work in manufacturing, just got promoted to quality facilitator and will be starting that at around $18 an hour, I have great benefits, 15 days of vacation, 5 days of PTO, 160 hours a year of sick time, 100% tuition reimbursement etc. So this coming year I will be starting a Bachelors in manufacturing quality management. Luckily, my old credits transfer well so all I have to do is 55 credits. I'm not saying manufacturing is the way to go, a lot of cheapskate companies in that area as well(who usual fail to ever find good long term employees cause of low wages, which actually turns into lost revenue cause of low quality and production numbers, but trying telling those morons that, my company however starts out at a fair wage), With that being said, good luck to everyone, but it's not going to work out in IT for me, would be nice, and is probably a good starting point for the younger ones who still live at home and can survive off of such low entry level wages for awhile, but as someone in their early - mid 30s, who has bills to pay, car payments, rent, single, etc it's just not going to cut it.

nicklauscombs

unfortunately certs and degrees aren't a magic ticket to money and like all professions sometimes you have to move where the jobs/money is.

pham0329

I understand your decision, but at the same time, there's a lot of people coming in the industry with unreasonable expectations. Not directing this at you, but people thinks that just because they have a BA and a CCNA/MCITP, they should start off making 40-60k.

Like you said, for someone in their mid 30s, who's currently employed, you should expect a pay cut when entering the IT field.

the_Grinch

It does have a lot to do with the area you are in. I started at $35k and that was after bumping it up because they interviewed me 6 months prior and never got back to me. At that time I said $30 to $40k, I didn't hear back (that was because they had someone internal who just finished his IT degree, but they found out he wanted more money then even I was asking for), called me back in and asked how much I was looking for. I told them $35 to $40k, to which my bosses boss said "you said $30 to $40k a few months ago". My reply was "well, that was a few months ago", though don't misconstrued it I only said that because I was being courted for a sales engineer position and had basically had it all lined up at that point. With all that, I had a 4 year degree from a well known school and it took me 8 months to find a job. I went on interviews all over the place, got offers from recruiters for temp work at $11 dollars an hour, and it got to the point where I actually had to start considering those offers because something was better then nothing.

You truly have to weigh your options when you consider what your future is going to be. I considered getting out of IT, but what I ultimately found was by the time I finished the schooling for where I wanted to go I would be at the same salary. Will I stay in IT forever? Probably not, but at this point I am good at what I do and it affords me a decent lifestyle. I would think that the skills you have from the work you put in will definitely help you out no matter what you do. Good luck!

Everyone

I've seen entry level Help Desk jobs that pay in the $18/hr to $26/hr range. They might be a little harder to find, but they exist. All depends on location, industry, etc.

Rappeller

I hate to say it but it may be the Associates that is slowing you down. I don't have an Associates yet, but I am working on my Bachelor's and I am looking to change jobs. For me to get a higher paying job (federal) I have to show either 1 year experience in my current grade, have a Masters, or a combination of both. With an Associates in today's economy, that is an entry level position. When I broke into the IT field, I made $10 an hour at an ISP call center. that experience is what got me my current position where I make more than double that. I have 40+ applications in the last month where I have met the requirements but was not referred to the choosing supervisor because I didn't rank high enough. Keep plugging away it will happen.

hackman2007

Sorry to hear about that.

I notice you live in Minnesota though. From what it seems (from the number of posters mentioning the lack of entry-level jobs in Minnesota), I think it might just be your location.

drumrolfe

hackman2007 wrote: »

Sorry to hear about that.

I notice you live in Minnesota though. From what it seems (from the number of posters mentioning the lack of entry-level jobs in Minnesota), I think it might just be your location.

What would be a better area?

veritas_libertas

As the old saying goes, "location, location, location." I believe the real key to being very successful in IT is:

Success = Experience+Degree+Certification+TheAbilitytoCommunicate

Anyone of those factors can help you but, having everyone of these should make you very successful.

Good luck to the OP. IT is certainly not for everyone, and all to many n00bs come into IT expecting to make a load of money with minimal work.

MrRyte

pham0329 wrote: »

I understand your decision, but at the same time, there's a lot of people coming in the industry with unreasonable expectations. Not directing this at you, but people thinks that just because they have a BA and a CCNA/MCITP, they should start off making 40-60k.

Like you said, for someone in their mid 30s, who's currently employed, you should expect a pay cut when entering the IT field.

Can't blame the OP (or others that think the same); blame the college recruiters, trade schools, IT boot camps and salary survey websites that mislead people to believe that they can start at $60K with little to no experience.

Mishra

Data speaks for itself.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/56869-how-much-your-starting-i-t-salery.html

SteveLord

MrRyte wrote: »

Can't blame the OP (or others that think the same); blame the college recruiters, trade schools, IT boot camps and salary survey websites that mislead people to believe that they can start at $60K with little to no experience.

I would blame all of the above + the people that fall for it. The inability to research doesn't mean you can blame everyone else for your actions and excuse you for being irresponsible, which always seems to be the first course of action.

NetworkingStudent

nicklauscombs wrote: »

unfortunately certs and degrees aren't a magic ticket to money and like all professions sometimes you have to move where the jobs/money is.

+1..I couldn’t agree more!!
Having a degree now days in IT is pretty much a requirement. There used to be days where you didn’t need a degree, but these days with the way the economy is going; it’s just expected that you have one.

veritas_libertas

nicklauscombs wrote: »

unfortunately certs and degrees aren't a magic ticket to money and like all professions sometimes you have to move where the jobs/money is.

This was true for me. I had to move out of Michigan to make a decent living.

dave330i

MrRyte wrote: »

Can't blame the OP (or others that think the same); blame the college recruiters, trade schools, IT boot camps and salary survey websites that mislead people to believe that they can start at $60K with little to no experience.

Depends on where you live and what certs you have.

NetworkingStudent

veritas_libertas wrote: »

As the old saying goes, "location, location, location." I believe the real key to being very successful in IT is:

Success = Experience+Degree+Certification+TheAbilitytoCommunicate

Anyone of those factors can help you but, having everyone those should make you very successful.

Good luck to the OP. IT is certainly not for everyone, and all to many n00bs come into it expecting make a load of money with minimal work. It's not easy to break into.

+1

Good point I might add that THE OP didn’t come from a customer service background. A lot of IT is customer service and often I have found that a lot of hiring managers want recent or previous customer service/customer facing experience. You could even be a waiter at your non IT job, but that’s better than working in manufacturing.

vCole

NetworkingStudent wrote: »

+1

Good point I might add that THE OP didn’t come from a customer service background. A lot of IT is customer service and often I have found that a lot of hiring managers want recent or previous customer service/customer facing experience. You could even be a waiter at your non IT job, but that’s better than working in manufacturing.

+2

I worked in Retail and Food Service before getting my break in IT. (9 months on college, no certs) I was told it was my customer service background plus my knowledge that gave me the edge over those with a degree and experience.

hackman2007

drumrolfe wrote: »

What would be a better area?

I haven't a clue. I have just noticed there are/were a lot of people from Minnesota that were looking for decent-paying entry-level IT jobs.

mistervince

i got my break in IT while working at starbucks actually. i would network with all these white collar workers every day and soon enough it paid off. this one lady who came in every day owned an EMR support company and she knew i did IT and she just looked at me after having gone on my spiel about how hard it is to get that first IT job. she was like, "come work for me. 5PM you got an interview."

its really all about the people you know and not what you know in IT, as far as getting the job... holding it down, thats another story.

dave330i

drumrolfe wrote: »

What would be a better area?

DC Metro area is very good for IT if you have clearance.

vCole

dave330i wrote: »

DC Metro area is very good for IT if you have clearance.

Agreed, and Boston as well.

NetworkingStudent

jjbrog wrote: »

I got a Associates degree in May of this year as a Network Admin. I've been looking and responding to job adds for months, and for someone without an IT work history, the entry level offers SUCK BAD! These employers expect someone to actually accept a offer for $9-$11 an hour? I mean really if it was a no experience required, no degree required etc, I could understand that would be reasonable, but no one should go through 2+ years of college and end up making such a low unlivable wage, it's a slap in the face. Anyone can say "but, you're inexperienced" all you want but, I did the classes, I did the assignments, I scored a final GPA of 3.86. I'd say it may not be work experience, but its academic experience, and it takes someone who knows what they are doing to manage almost straight A's. I'm not depressed cause of it, actually, I have another road to follow. I work in manufacturing, just got promoted to quality facilitator and will be starting that at around $18 an hour, I have great benefits, 15 days of vacation, 5 days of PTO, 160 hours a year of sick time, 100% tuition reimbursement etc. So this coming year I will be starting a Bachelors in manufacturing quality management. Luckily, my old credits transfer well so all I have to do is 55 credits. I'm not saying manufacturing is the way to go, a lot of cheapskate companies in that area as well(who usual fail to ever find good long term employees cause of low wages, which actually turns into lost revenue cause of low quality and production numbers, but trying telling those morons that, my company however starts out at a fair wage), With that being said, good luck to everyone, but it's not going to work out in IT for me, would be nice, and is probably a good starting point for the younger ones who still live at home and can survive off of such low entry level wages for awhile, but as someone in their early - mid 30s, who has bills to pay, car payments, rent, single, etc it's just not going to cut it.

I’m pretty much in the same boat as you, except that I’m in an entry level position at my company.
I make almost $18.00 an hour at my current printing/manufacturing job. I can’t image being there forever, because the work is boring and highly physical. I like having money, but at the end of the day I like knowing that I have a career and job that I enjoy. Don’t get me wrong I love the people I work with for the most part but, I don’t really enjoy the work. I look forward to the day when my brain is exhausted from working an 8 hour day, rather than my body.
At my work if you hurt your back , or some other part of your body , you’re pretty much done!!

I’m more than willing to take a pay cut, because I know that since I’m starting out new with little to no experience, the company is a taking big chance on me. You got to pay your dues just like everyone else, before you can demand that big bucks.

Did you get your CCNA?

Did you volunteer?

Join Toastmasters?

Did you network with other students while in school?

Did you get any interviews?

Do you have a linked in account?

Is your resume and cover letter 100% error free?

There are so many people that are out of work that even the entry level positions are highly sought after. Also, internships and volunteer may go fast too. You just got to just keep putting yourself out there and finding ways to improve yourself every day.
I had a previous post about finding work in MN and a week after that posting I got 3 interviews. You got to Just keep plugging away apply, apply, apply, and something will come your way.

erpadmin

You know I usually take location into account first. Then I realized something....there is a need for IT EVERYWHERE. There are certainly shops in MN that would hire you. However, I believe your real issue is that you, Mr. JJBROG, have this mistaken notion that you should be making $50k-$60k doing net admin work without the requisite experience to land such a position.

Tell me, if I'm a hiring manager and I see two resumes, one that's yours and another from some experienced IT professional that can walk the walk and talk the talk with industry experience, why would I bother with yours if the other guy wants the exact same salary you do. The only way I can consider your resume is if you were willing to take that pay cut for at least a year or two.

Anyone can be trained to do IT (provided anyone is willing to learn), but the false expectation that you deserve a high salary because of your age and family obligations is insane. As with anything else in life, you pay your dues, then you reap the rewards.

You have done one thing though...highlight how many people swear that IT is easy and that with a couple of certs and a BS, the path to IT riches will be all but assured.

I believe if you, yourself, modify your expectations, you can enjoy an IT career (not a job...a career.) Otherwise, there is always the nursing field (another hot and in demand job.)


One other thing...I will say "you're inexperienced" all I like. You don't learn real world scenarios in a classroom....you only learn the fundamentals (and some case studies) to help you prepare for those real world scenarios. I'm in my mid 30s too, with over 15 years experience (more than 20 if we count my high school years, but at this level I needn't do so.) Experience does matter in this field. Couple this with a high unemployment rate and a desire for folks to take ANY job in this current economy and it matters even more so.

TeKniques

It's really hard everywhere. The one thing that I think a lot of people don't consider is that in almost every case to break into IT you must start at the BOTTOM and work your way up. Like others have said; experience combined with education is what it takes to advance an IT career. I suppose there are those rare cases where people land their first IT job somewhere in the middle tier, but it's definitely not the norm. I do think a lot of it is the false promises made when going to college.

pham0329

erpadmin wrote: »

You know I usually take location into account first. Then I realized something....there is a need for IT EVERYWHERE. There are certainly shops in MN that would hire you. However, I believe your real issue is that you, Mr. JJBROG, have this mistaken notion that you should be making $50k-$60k doing net admin work without the requisite experience to land such a position.

Tell me, if I'm a hiring manager and I see two resumes, one that's yours and another from some experienced IT professional that can walk the walk and talk the talk with industry experience, why would I bother with yours if the other guy wants the exact same salary you do. The only way I can consider your resume is if you were willing to take that pay cut for at least a year or two.

Anyone can be trained to do IT (provided anyone is willing to learn), but the false expectation that you deserve a high salary because of your age and family obligations is insane. As with anything else in life, you pay your dues, then you reap the rewards.

You have done one thing though...highlight how many people swear that IT is easy and that with a couple of certs and a BS, the path to IT riches will be all but assured.

I believe if you, yourself, modify your expectations, you can enjoy an IT career (not a job...a career.) Otherwise, there is always the nursing field (another hot and in demand job.)


One other thing...I will say "you're inexperienced" all I like. You don't learn real world scenarios in a classroom....you only learn the fundamentals (and some case studies) to help you prepare for those real world scenarios. I'm in my mid 30s too, with over 15 years experience (more than 20 if we count my high school years, but at this level I needn't do so.) Experience does matter in this field. Couple this with a high unemployment rate and a desire for folks to take ANY job in this current economy and it matters even more so.

+1

I'm also in MN and I see lots of entry level positions available. Personally, I think that if you lack the experience, but you show that you have what it takes during the interview, you're going to get a job sooner or later. 99% of the people on TE started at the exact same spot, you just have to fight through it and stay motivated.

swild

I started out in IT making $8/hr. I got my current job with 4 years of experience at $21/hr. You will have to do grunt work and get paid nothing before you can move up. Once you have a couple of years of experience, that Associate's will help you move faster. I've realized that and started at WGU to get my Bachelor's.

cyberguypr

Two words for the OP: unrealistic expectations. 'Entry level' is by definition a low paying, temporary, experience building undertaking. You make it sound like it is the industry's fault that the starting salaries are so low. I am sorry it doesn't work for your situation but that is the nature of the beast. You can't expect jumping into a different, completely new field and being able to sustain your current lifestyle.

There's a reason many of us seasoned IT professionals recommend simultaneous schoolwork, certs and experience building activities to the extent possible. There's no magic formula for success but that trifecta is the closest that anything will get.

Erpadmin brings a very important point in regards to experience. No college will teach you those little intricacies that are unique to a corporate IT environment. There's no room for argument. As someone involved in hiring, I can tell you that I rather have someone working for me who can prove logical thinking and has experience rather an a high GPA. Right now I'm seeing a lot of people getting Masters on InfoSec but lack the experience for most of the positions out there.

Since you made it clear you are not willing to start at the bottom, IT is definitely not be the best career for you. Best of luck in your current endeavor. It does sound promising.

MAC_Addy

vCole wrote: »

Agreed, and Boston as well.

I want to move to Boston so bad! My fiancee is currently in school, she's a graphic designer, she's going to graduate after 3 semesters. It's our goal to move there. Long way to move all our crap though.

To be more on topic. I graduated college with a BA in IT. I started out making £8 an hour. I know what you're talking about though, having to make payments and such. But why not get a part-time job somewhere? That will help you out A LOT. Even know it'll cut down on your social life, sorry mate.. but if that's the case, the do it! If you stick with it and stick with gaining more experience you'll end up somewhere where you can start taking more certs and be able to open up more doors for yourself.

BTW - I'm a brit living in the US... not to confuse anyone with an unrealistic views about moving. I think I'd like to keep my british slang, and accent.

vCole

MAC_Addy wrote: »

I want to move to Boston so bad! My fiancee is currently in school, she's a graphic designer, she's going to graduate after 3 semesters. It's our goal to move there. Long way to move all our crap though.

TBH, as her being a graphic designer & you working in IT - Boston would be perfect. However, I will warn you CoL is very high in Boston. ($1500-$1700/mo 1 bedroom) However, if you don't mind commuting 30-45min you can find decent places for $750-$900.

instant000

jjbrog wrote: »

I got a Associates degree in May of this year as a Network Admin. I've been looking and responding to job adds for months, and for someone without an IT work history, the entry level offers SUCK BAD! These employers expect someone to actually accept a offer for $9-$11 an hour? I mean really if it was a no experience required, no degree required etc, I could understand that would be reasonable, but no one should go through 2+ years of college and end up making such a low unlivable wage, it's a slap in the face. Anyone can say "but, you're inexperienced" all you want but, I did the classes, I did the assignments, I scored a final GPA of 3.86. I'd say it may not be work experience, but its academic experience, and it takes someone who knows what they are doing to manage almost straight A's. I'm not depressed cause of it, actually, I have another road to follow. I work in manufacturing, just got promoted to quality facilitator and will be starting that at around $18 an hour, I have great benefits, 15 days of vacation, 5 days of PTO, 160 hours a year of sick time, 100% tuition reimbursement etc. So this coming year I will be starting a Bachelors in manufacturing quality management. Luckily, my old credits transfer well so all I have to do is 55 credits. I'm not saying manufacturing is the way to go, a lot of cheapskate companies in that area as well(who usual fail to ever find good long term employees cause of low wages, which actually turns into lost revenue cause of low quality and production numbers, but trying telling those morons that, my company however starts out at a fair wage), With that being said, good luck to everyone, but it's not going to work out in IT for me, would be nice, and is probably a good starting point for the younger ones who still live at home and can survive off of such low entry level wages for awhile, but as someone in their early - mid 30s, who has bills to pay, car payments, rent, single, etc it's just not going to cut it.

I think that you might have a higher ceiling in IT, even though it tends to start lower, those who stick it out and advance do see the jumps, as someone alluded to the "starting salary" thread, where people made impressive jumps in just a couple years. You can really push yourself to do well in IT, but I think you can make that same opportunity in other fields, too. Just remember to push yourself, and don't settle for mediocre.

Even with that said, since you're into manufacturing now, then you need to still advance yourself.

I advise looking into the following:
CQPA
Accounting/Finance (Regs nowadays make everyone an accountant )
Continuous Improvement (there's a cert for this)
CAPM
LEAN
Six Sigma

If you need any clue on what it takes to advance yourself, look at the credentials of others in your field. Do not get complacent with where you are. If you don't advance, it's the equivalent of going backwards, to me.

Hope this post helps!

MAC_Addy

vCole wrote: »

TBH, as her being a graphic designer & you working in IT - Boston would be perfect. However, I will warn you CoL is very high in Boston. ($1500-$1700/mo 1 bedroom) However, if you don't mind commuting 30-45min you can find decent places for $750-$900.

I drive that to work every day anyway. I think we'd rather live outside of the city anyway.