Gave up on IT, but good luck everyone!

Tackle

This thread is funny. I had expectations of making 50k after graduation. The truth is, I wouldn't have lasted long in a position where had to know your stuff. There is a too much stuff to know and learn.

If you have a PC and router at home and a degree, that doesn't mean that you are qualified to be managing Cisco swiches or Servers in an enterprise environment.

I started out making half what I thought I would after graduation. I'm slowly but steadily working my way up and should be there in a few years. I went into college knowing what entry level pay was, but I figured i knew more than most and could learn faster...hence the hope for 50k...not likely entry level. Dumb Lucas.

cyberguypr

LucasMN wrote: »

If you have a PC and router at home and a degree, that doesn't mean that you are qualified to be managing Cisco swiches or Servers in an enterprise environment.

That should be on shirts, mugs, etc. at Cafepress.com

ptilsen

pham0329 wrote: »

I'm also in MN and I see lots of entry level positions available. Personally, I think that if you lack the experience, but you show that you have what it takes during the interview, you're going to get a job sooner or later. 99% of the people on TE started at the exact same spot, you just have to fight through it and stay motivated.

This. I also live in MN, and I have also seen lots of entry-level positions. In fact I have hired entry-level guys with Bachelors and no experience. I would hire someone with good skills, an AS/AAS, or an entry-level cert. You don't get to start out at $18/hr with benefits, but 30-34 a year with PTO, insurance, etc. is not unreasonable. It doesn't take long to get to 40K $20/hr.

But to get a two-year degree, not get hired quickly, and then give up is the wrong approach. If you didn't/don' have a real interest in the field, it was wrong to try to move. If you did/do have a real interest, then you're giving up way too easily.

it_consultant

pham0329 wrote: »

+1

I'm also in MN and I see lots of entry level positions available. Personally, I think that if you lack the experience, but you show that you have what it takes during the interview, you're going to get a job sooner or later. 99% of the people on TE started at the exact same spot, you just have to fight through it and stay motivated.

Taking a job at an ISP doing level 1 support at $10.33 an hour (Wild Blue Internet for three months in 06, I know, I have been there) for a while may be exactly what OP needs. It will both fix the attitude and give him the experience needed to put his resume in contest for better jobs.

Essendon

I'll pitch in with my story as well.

4 year Bachelors in Engineering degree, double Master's in Engineering (all Telecom Engineering degrees) -- This is what I had before I started in IT, and you know how much I started off at?? @ $10 an hour. this should be some perspective for ya. You know how long it took me to find a job?? Approx 9 months. You know how frustrated and deeply in debt I was?? I was led to believe that IT was easy to break into and the money would rain down once I had a Masters. Wrong wrong wrong!!!

That was 4.5 years ago, I have a decent job now, make well over triple my starting salary. Some guys in my team make upwards of $150,000 and have been in the industry for about 10 years. Not bad eh??

But you got to be willing to tough it out, I did odd jobs along with my first IT job to make ends meet. Old saying but, Never Ever Give Up.

IT is a cool industry to be in, always changing. I wouldnt know your financial and family situation, but mate tough it out. Move locations, do something. There's a ton of helpful advice in this thread.

Whatever you do, I wish you loads of luck. I hate to see someone leaving IT.

Akaricloud

The IT industry takes hard work, requires constant learning and is driven off of experience. While employers often will substitute some education for experience, the two really cannot be compared.

If you're not willing to put time into furthering your education or gaining experience then maybe it isn't for you. The fact is that AA degrees aren't very impressive in themselves and they definitely don't entitle people to high-paying jobs.

Gaining experience doesn't mean you have to take a drop in income. If you took a part time IT job at say $11/hr then not only would you have a healthy boost to your total income but in a year or so you could transition into IT full time making more than you do at your current job.

Your post really just comes off as showing that you're unwilling to try very hard. I spent 3 years working desktop support at $11-16.50/hr full time while attending a university full time and working on certifications. Now I'm finishing my degree, working full time at a new job making $20+/hr, working on certifications and am starting my own business. If you really want a career in IT then put in the effort and make one for yourself.

Bokeh

I think someone here really took what a college recruiter told them to heart. I remember years ago when living in Dallas area, schools begging and pleading for folks to take their mcse or cne, or both courses. I remember fondly after talking to one recruiter who came in to buy a new laptop telling me "Oh yeah, all our mcse students are starting at 65k/yr, and if you go the dual route and get the cne as well, you can write your own ticket, with most starting at 110k. Big pipe dreams. They paint the rosey picture very easily.

I did 10.5 yrs of military IT, and when I got out with a family, and two young daughters my starting pay in IT was 6.50/hr plus commissions. I was selling computers, not building or fixing them. I worked my way up.

Sorry dude, it isn't easy street out there. Yes, Im in MN as well, and make decent money as the sole IT guy for a regional company with 13 offices scattering all over MN and WI. You do know that MN has one of the LOWEST IT unemployment rates in the country, right? Just because you weren't handed the keys to the network and 50k out of the box, is no reason to give up. Sure, take the job you got and its benefits. But if you do nothing with your degree, then the only one who benefited is the school, all the way to the bank.

drew726

I started off working for free, 3 years at 16/hr, and now starting new job at 57k/year. It's tough but I have no debt, no kids, and lived with parents.

kriscamaro68

First off College is not needed or required to get where you want to be in I.T. I have never taken a college course in my life and have been able to get interviews and then beat out the people who have had BS and MS degrees.

Also you dont need to know anyone to get where you want in I.T. either. I have never had any hook-ups at any job I have ever taken. I knew no body.

If you want to make it you need to work hard, know what your talking about not how to memorize answers, and have good people skills.

If you think that these things are needed or are the only way into I.T. then you are not going to make it very far as I have had none of that and went from a guy working at circuit city firedog to a Sys Admin. You are only limiting yourself with this kind of thinking.

P.S. my certs never helped either. It has always boiled down to the skills I actually have and how I was able to present those skills in an interview.

odysseyelite

Same type of story here.

I left college with a 4 year degree and started at 16/hour doing helpdesk. I did have some work expeience prior to that thought. I'm sorry to say but only an associates does not give you much leg up on everyone else. Even a four year degree barely gets you by nowadays.

When i was getting my CCNA, I had students in the classs thinking I'll get my CCNA and walk into a 60k+ job. Yeah right.

Location means a lot as well. I recently moved to Dallas, got a 2 year contract at almost double of what I was making in Florida.

My brother in law was thinking on going back to IT, but I told him he could not make the same as he was making now. There is a road to follow and it typically starts off as a low wage. Once you have some certs, years and a degree the road starts paving itself.

Turgon

Essendon wrote: »

I'll pitch in with my story as well.

4 year Bachelors in Engineering degree, double Master's in Engineering (all Telecom Engineering degrees) -- This is what I had before I started in IT, and you know how much I started off at?? @ $10 an hour. this should be some perspective for ya. You know how long it took me to find a job?? Approx 9 months. You know how frustrated and deeply in debt I was?? I was led to believe that IT was easy to break into and the money would rain down once I had a Masters. Wrong wrong wrong!!!

That was 4.5 years ago, I have a decent job now, make well over triple my starting salary. Some guys in my team make upwards of $150,000 and have been in the industry for about 10 years. Not bad eh??

But you got to be willing to tough it out, I did odd jobs along with my first IT job to make ends meet. Old saying but, Never Ever Give Up.

IT is a cool industry to be in, always changing. I wouldnt know your financial and family situation, but mate tough it out. Move locations, do something. There's a ton of helpful advice in this thread.

Whatever you do, I wish you loads of luck. I hate to see someone leaving IT.

In 1995 I started out with a Masters Degree in IT and it took me 18 months to get my start. I did all kinds of crappy office jobs inbetween stints of unemployment. Then I got taken on and the market boomed.

I could have started sooner but wasn't plugged into the boom in London and looked for jobs in the provinces so to speak. Regardless, there was at least a boom back then and eventually it caught up with me, so that my daily visits to this recruitment agency or that recruitment agency in town eventually got me walking into one I hadn't tried before, who knew the score, where a guy sat down with me, saw my education and said 'sending this to the office in the big city down the road'. He did. I then got a call and then an interview and then a job! But there isn't a boom today. Looking at the situation in the UK there are a million young people out of work, many of them graduates. The situation will be bad until 2020. My advice is to scour the earth for work opportunities, paid fulltime, paid parttime or even voluntary. Just get some. Those who dont, will rack up debts on education and certs and be in and out of work the next 5 years before falling off the 'good job employable radar', until the end of time.

tom_dub

I really can't understand how people have such a problem getting a good job after graduating with a degree in IT. Most Business Information Tech. grads at Virginia Tech are swamped with job offers and interviews their senior/junior years, a lot of them getting 60k-70k offers fresh out of school.

Akaricloud

tom_dub wrote: »

I really can't understand how people have such a problem getting a good job after graduating with a degree in IT. Most Business Information Tech. grads at Virginia Tech are swamped with job offers and interviews their senior/junior years, a lot of them getting 60k-70k offers fresh out of school.

Wasn't their average ~57k? -That includes most of their graduates that came in with years of experience.

thenjduke

I have 15 years expierence and I hold several certifications and have been exposed to Microsoft, Cisco, and many other technologies and now I specialize in Cisco and I am in the high 90s. I started doing 35k when I first got in the field. Expierence is a must... I would not someone coming out of college with all the certifications in the world to start making 50-60k a year without expierence. You need to start at the bottom like most of us here. We all work are way up.

tom_dub

Akaricloud wrote: »

Wasn't their average ~57k? -That includes most of their graduates that came in with years of experience.

57.5 yeah but every single grad I spoke with came out starting well over that, most without experience except internships. A lot of them went to big time consulting companies, Big 4, or software development. Two guys I talked to started out at 77k, more than their electrical engineering friends were making. So I can't really see what the big problem people have here is, idk if they're doing something wrong or just in a horrible area.

docrice

It pays to pay your dues. I think this is the general consensus on the forum, and all similar future threads on the subject should reference back here.

nerdydad

September 2010, 11 /hr part time computer sales while studying for my CCNA
June 2011, 48,000 a year working in a NOC
Next week, 58,000 a year as Network Engineer

Study, study, study, network with others in your field, and be prepared to interview at a moments notice. I was complimented in my last 2 interviews for how well I did, know your stuff when you go in there, because they will be testing you.

jamesp1983

nerdydad wrote: »

Study, study, study, network with others in your field, and be prepared to interview at a moments notice. I was complimented in my last 2 interviews for how well I did, know your stuff when you go in there, because they will be testing you.

Great advice. You never know when an impromptu phone screening can happen... I've had initial phone interviews that started out by asking me in-depth networking questions in the first 5 minutes of the conversation to ensure that the interviewer wasn't wasting their time.

Turgon

tom_dub wrote: »

I really can't understand how people have such a problem getting a good job after graduating with a degree in IT. Most Business Information Tech. grads at Virginia Tech are swamped with job offers and interviews their senior/junior years, a lot of them getting 60k-70k offers fresh out of school.

I cant speak for the US, but in the UK we have thousands of graduates out of work and the numbers are skyrocketing.

Turgon

Bokeh wrote: »

I think someone here really took what a college recruiter told them to heart. I remember years ago when living in Dallas area, schools begging and pleading for folks to take their mcse or cne, or both courses. I remember fondly after talking to one recruiter who came in to buy a new laptop telling me "Oh yeah, all our mcse students are starting at 65k/yr, and if you go the dual route and get the cne as well, you can write your own ticket, with most starting at 110k. Big pipe dreams. They paint the rosey picture very easily.

I did 10.5 yrs of military IT, and when I got out with a family, and two young daughters my starting pay in IT was 6.50/hr plus commissions. I was selling computers, not building or fixing them. I worked my way up.

Sorry dude, it isn't easy street out there. Yes, Im in MN as well, and make decent money as the sole IT guy for a regional company with 13 offices scattering all over MN and WI. You do know that MN has one of the LOWEST IT unemployment rates in the country, right? Just because you weren't handed the keys to the network and 50k out of the box, is no reason to give up. Sure, take the job you got and its benefits. But if you do nothing with your degree, then the only one who benefited is the school, all the way to the bank.

Some good advice there. It's 2011 and enterprise networks are a whole different beast from 2001. IT has a lot of experienced people out there looking for jobs or doing the hiring. In the late nineties you could bluff it with MCSE+CNE for a little while and pull in some good money while you surfed the web to find the exit job before the company you were working for found you out. Not today, and the demands and expectations are much higher from employers in terms of employee capabilities.

W Stewart

jjbrog wrote: »

I got a Associates degree in May of this year as a Network Admin. I've been looking and responding to job adds for months, and for someone without an IT work history, the entry level offers SUCK BAD! These employers expect someone to actually accept a offer for $9-$11 an hour? I mean really if it was a no experience required, no degree required etc, I could understand that would be reasonable, but no one should go through 2+ years of college and end up making such a low unlivable wage, it's a slap in the face. Anyone can say "but, you're inexperienced" all you want but, I did the classes, I did the assignments, I scored a final GPA of 3.86. I'd say it may not be work experience, but its academic experience, and it takes someone who knows what they are doing to manage almost straight A's. I'm not depressed cause of it, actually, I have another road to follow. I work in manufacturing, just got promoted to quality facilitator and will be starting that at around $18 an hour, I have great benefits, 15 days of vacation, 5 days of PTO, 160 hours a year of sick time, 100% tuition reimbursement etc. So this coming year I will be starting a Bachelors in manufacturing quality management. Luckily, my old credits transfer well so all I have to do is 55 credits. I'm not saying manufacturing is the way to go, a lot of cheapskate companies in that area as well(who usual fail to ever find good long term employees cause of low wages, which actually turns into lost revenue cause of low quality and production numbers, but trying telling those morons that, my company however starts out at a fair wage), With that being said, good luck to everyone, but it's not going to work out in IT for me, would be nice, and is probably a good starting point for the younger ones who still live at home and can survive off of such low entry level wages for awhile, but as someone in their early - mid 30s, who has bills to pay, car payments, rent, single, etc it's just not going to cut it.

You put in two years of college just to give up? I guess that's just one more job opening for someone who really wants to be in IT.

pham0329

While I mentioned before that the OP has some unrealistic expectations, I think we're being a bit harsh on the OP. While he shouldn't be expecting 40k salary for his first job, if you were in his shoes, I don't think you would take an $11/hr job either when you're 30 with rent, car payments, etc...

Low paying entry jobs are fine when you're in school or fresh out of college, but when you're in your 30s, it's hard to be able to survive off of that type of pay.

SouthSeaPirate

pham0329 wrote: »

While I mentioned before that the OP has some unrealistic expectations, I think we're being a bit harsh on the OP. While he shouldn't be expecting 40k salary for his first job, if you were in his shoes, I don't think you would take an $11/hr job either when you're 30 with rent, car payments, etc...

Low paying entry jobs are fine when you're in school or fresh out of college, but when you're in your 30s, it's hard to be able to survive off of that type of pay.

X2, Hes also already in a good position where he is. Already has advancement opportunity. I myself wouldn't be able to make that move either. I know it looks like hes just quitting, but he has quite the reason to do so. I normally wouldn't condone something like this, but I don't blame him one bit.

ITNewbie79

jjbrog, I can relate to you at this point. The only difference is I just earned my bachelors degree in IT and I have a family. Right now I am making as much as you in a different field and am having a hard time justifying a significant drop in pay. I am considering a masters degree and maybe trying to do some volunteer IT work on the side to gain experience, but then again I would hate to have a masters degree and in the same situation. At this point I can understand it is a tough decision to make.

erpadmin

ITNewbie79 wrote: »

jjbrog, I can relate to you at this point. The only difference is I just earned my bachelors degree in IT and I have a family. Right now I am making as much as you in a different field and am having a hard time justifying a significant drop in pay. I am considering a masters degree and maybe trying to do some volunteer IT work on the side to gain experience, but then again I would hate to have a masters degree and in the same situation. At this point I can understand it is a tough decision to make.

If you expect a masters degree to guarantee you a job in IT, do yourself and your family a favor and save your money. Take this from someone who is two years older than you.

A masters in the IT field isn't suppose to land you a entry-level job in IT; it's supposed to augment whatever education/experience you already have in the field. I would hate for you to spend all that money/time on a degree only to be disappointed. Keep doing what you're doing and leverage whatever experience you have IT to hopefully take an IT job that isn't too much of a paycut or at best, a lateral move in pay. Just don't expect that you having a masters will put you in the same running as someone with a BS and x amount of years of experience.

W Stewart

pham0329 wrote: »

While I mentioned before that the OP has some unrealistic expectations, I think we're being a bit harsh on the OP. While he shouldn't be expecting 40k salary for his first job, if you were in his shoes, I don't think you would take an $11/hr job either when you're 30 with rent, car payments, etc...

Low paying entry jobs are fine when you're in school or fresh out of college, but when you're in your 30s, it's hard to be able to survive off of that type of pay.

We probably are being a little bit harsh but realistically I don't see how you can just put two years of your life into something and then give up. School is not cheap and at 30 I would definitely do a little bit of research before making the decision to switch careers that way I wouldn't have to come to the realization that it wouldn't be possible after two years of school.

jjbrog

ok sorry for taking so long but I figured I'd chime in again. I suppose I kinda of made my post seem negative but it's really not, I'm totally fine not being in IT, my mistake is I should have researched opportunities in my current field. I just knew a IT degree would be easy for me, and it was, a total cakewalk, easy as hell, I barely showed up to my last Linux class, and was one of the top 3 in the class, rumors went around I would be teaching Linux after I was done with school. It's not even just the pay/benefits that I stay at my current job, it's that I'm very very comfortable there. As well as IT isn't the only thing I'm interested in. I like being part of a team that has a responsibility to deliver a quality product! I, as well as many of you I'm sure, successful in IT at the moment or not, would be happy in other fields aside from IT as long as you reached or are in the process of reaching your goals. Hell, there's quite a few things I'd like to do. Be a psychologist, be an engineer, a registered nurse or a doctor, music production, graphic designer, a actor, a private investigator, a journalist, a teacher, manage a nice restaurant, a master chef, etc etc, aside from what I went to school for, and currently do now. My IT degree isn't a total loss. The U of M is accepting all my credits shockingly. So a bachelors after that I'd have to do 55 out of 120 credits. Even though my associates is different. As far as pay does, entry level or not 11 an hour is a joke. At my job we have hired 18-20 year olds with hardly any kind of experience, let alone a degree for 13 an hour to do entry level no degree required assembly. If we're doing that, then I feel that an associates should get you more than what you can get with hardly anything. I wouldn't expect 40K a year off the bat, but noone who busts there ass(ok I didn't but alot of my peers did) for 2+ years of school should come out making 11 bucks a hour. Just my opinion.

it_consultant

Unfortunately that is the reality of IT, entry level jobs don't pay very well. There are a lot of reasons why the pay is so low, stop thinking of it like "I have college and a family therefore I should get paid X amount of dollars". You are worth less than nothing to whoever hires you, in fact, you end up costing the employer. You are trying to get a paid internship. Believe me, you know NOTHING that is useful, I have a hard time with people who earned their Master's in IT, they also know nothing. IT is a lot more like welding than it is whatever you thought it was. You will screw up more things than you will fix, senior people have to constantly QA your work and fix all of your bad habits. Just like an apprentice welder works under the strict supervision of their master, otherwise they will mess everything up.

What you learned in school or in your certification program brought you from regular user to regular user who knows some jargon. It is up to us (the senior level IT people) to hone you into a good engineer/consultant/technician/administrator and that takes time and energy. At the level you would be working in, you are getting paid to learn and get on the job training.

The upside to this work is that very quickly you can start getting paid really well. The learning curve is steep, but if you get under a good professional you can learn in 6 months what will take you from $10.33 an hour to 45-50K. From there you will gain the experience and swagger necessary to get paid closer to $100K. Is that the type of pay jumps your 18-20 year olds can expect in their current job?

dt3k

Hey guys, I just want to give my story really quick. I do think people have unreasonable expectations, however, I was hired in 2009 by a School District, I had no professional experience, and no degree or certifications. I started out as a $12.00 an hour intern while I was in college and they hired me full time after 5 months. I make 44k a year now as a Computer Technician, have my associates degree, other certifications, (A+, CCENT, CCNA, Apple Certified Associate, some other certs from the technical college I attended). I have turned down job offers from the private sector and other companies in the area of 50-55,000 to stay where I'm at and finish my Bachelors. IT has been my passion since I was a little kid, but this is my first job in the IT field. I am now regarded as one of the best employees in the IT department (was told this by my supervisor during annual review). If you make IT your passion you can go anywhere in this field, but it isn't easy or a cake walk.

Don't look for jobs all by yourself, ask your college for assistance, search for companies in your area who have connections with head hunters, talk to professors, make a name for yourself with your professors and everyone that you can. A professor got me my internship. SOCIAL SKILLS AND PERSONALITY ARE VERY IMPORTANT. IT attracts a lot of reclusive, anti-social people, and there isn't a problem with being that way, but no one wants to work with a hermit. Work on your social and professional skills. Employers are going to look for the little things to distinguish you from other candidates.

The point to my story is some of you expect things to come to easily, work some internships and see what they lead to. 44k a year isn't a lot to many of you, but it's by far the most I've ever made and it's just my starting point. Who knows where I'll be when I'm down with my CCNP and my MBA.

Food for thought, the Network Engineers in my department make from $63,000 to $90,000. None of them have any certifications and only one of them has a 4 year degree.

Turgon

dt3k wrote: »

SOCIAL SKILLS AND PERSONALITY ARE VERY IMPORTANT. IT attracts a lot of reclusive, anti-social people, and there isn't a problem with being that way, but no one wants to work with a hermit. Work on your social and professional skills. Employers are going to look for the little things to distinguish you from other candidates.

In 1999 companies quite happily worked with the socially dysfunctional if they could configure things. The suits were running very scared back then and made lots of allowances for the IT crowd as the budget was in that area, and suits need a budget to advance their careers. Since then more suits have poured in, the standards brigade, the auditors, the service managers, the project managers, the programme managers, the infrastructure managers. They gave up trying to learn linux 10 years ago and got an MBA. They filled the void made larger by techs that took the candy, got snotty and continued to avoid 'all that management nonsense'. The managers then set about their plans to crush the techs and save the company some money, thereby advancing their own careers. Get with the programme. Learn how to run a meeting, learn about business drivers, commercial strategy and vision. After all, you do at least know how to configure a box. Many of those you work for wouldn't know a 7206VXR if it landed on their heads, but they are busy making plans for all of you and the money that hits your bank account each month.