Are you surprised more people don't skip CompTIA and go for MS/Cisco certs?

Zartanasaurus

I think for your average person trying to get into IT, they realize CompTIA exams are beginner exams, whereas jumping right into MCITP or CCNA would be intimidating. It certainly was for me 15 years ago. If I had it to do all over again though, I'd have jumped right into Cisco or Novell.

Plus those CompTIA courses might be pushed at the tech schools as a stepping stone to the other exams.

Zartanasaurus

PC509 wrote: »

I would also think twice about hiring a guy with a CCNA and no experience as a PC technician. He'd jump ship any time - he wants to be in networking, not PC repair.

Anyone who's any good will want to jump ship from PC repair anyway.

N2IT

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Scary in what way? The certs are pretty much mandatory if you want an IT job other than router and switch fondling and many educational institutions are CompTIA authorized to give the exam to their students and structure their courses accordingly.

Not being told the options and being steered into CompTIA sounds very controlling. Some people like to be told what to do, I personally don't care for it, unless there is a solid reason behind.

I've had the pleasure of working on several help desk and most of the people don't have certifications. This crap about having to get certified to get a help desk job now a days is just bunk. Having a degree even an AAS a charismatic smile/professional look, and communication skills can get you on entry level. I've seen a waitress from Denny's get hired on over a guy with A+. She was in her first semester at ITT.

There are special circumstances when you need certifications. I needed Server + to order server parts from Lenovo and A+ to order Laptop and Desktop parts, so they have value, but to point kids to those certs right off the bat is crazy.

N2IT

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

I think for your average person trying to get into IT, they realize CompTIA exams are beginner exams, whereas jumping right into MCITP or CCNA would be intimidating. It certainly was for me 15 years ago. If I had it to do all over again though, I'd have jumped right into Cisco or Novell.

Plus those CompTIA courses might be pushed at the tech schools as a stepping stone to the other exams.

If I had to do it all over again I would of gotten my MCSE when I was in highschool. I would of begged my parents to float me a loan to take those courses. I would of skipped over all those CompTIA certifications and went straight to the MCSE. I would of done thing while going to the University and majored in Business or Finance. I personally think the mix is deadly and worth a lot in todays market.

I would of stopped at the MCSE and focused strictly on business certifications and potentially some one off technical certs if the job required that I get those or if the benefit was overwhelming.

kurosaki00

Not really
And I hope they dont.

If they have good knowledge and experience with general computer/tech/systems good. Maybe yes sure skip.
But I wouldnt hire someone that can do BGP configuration with eyes closed but fails at simple basic system tasks.
I dont know, thats just me.
I think a well round general knowledge, then specialized knowledge is the way to go.
But you need that general knowledge.

it_consultant

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

I think for your average person trying to get into IT, they realize CompTIA exams are beginner exams, whereas jumping right into MCITP or CCNA would be intimidating. It certainly was for me 15 years ago. If I had it to do all over again though, I'd have jumped right into Cisco or Novell.

Plus those CompTIA courses might be pushed at the tech schools as a stepping stone to the other exams.

Its hard to jump right into CCNA when you are a beginner. Say what you will about Microsoft exams, the MCITP tests are not easy and experienced techs fail them regularly.

WafflesAndRootbeer

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

They are?

Yes, they are. It has been that way for about half a decade since IT departments were scaled back or phased out all together to be replaced by contractors and service providers who are obsessed with the various ISO standards and market their services to clients as "Certified Technical Support". In order for those companies to get their ISO certification, they have to have employees who are certified by CompTIA with the A+, Network+, and Server+ or other applicable certs. Where I live, which is an area with lots of IT contracting jobs, you can't get hired for much of anything without CompTIA certs, including help desk jobs.

victorastacio

it_consultant wrote: »

Its hard to jump right into CCNA when you are a beginner. Say what you will about Microsoft exams, the MCITP tests are not easy and experienced techs fail them regularly.

Definitely true, it wasn't easy getting the CCNA as my first cert, but I believe, that like everyone in this forum, we have enough dedication to our studies to make it happen, trust me, I stop hanging out with friends just to study for the CCNA.

dave330i

it_consultant wrote: »

Its hard to jump right into CCNA when you are a beginner. Say what you will about Microsoft exams, the MCITP tests are not easy and experienced techs fail them regularly.

Thought CCNA was pretty easy. I got mine as ICND 1 & 2 which probably made it easier.

If it wasn't for DoD compliance I probably wouldn't have Sec+.

TeKniques

The only surprise to me would be if people already had experience without these certifications and they just wanted to take them 'just because'. For me I got the A+ and Network+ because I didn't have much experience and just wanted to show that I could do it. They did help me get my first help desk job to break into IT. Imo that's what they are there for; to help you get your foot in the door at an entry level position. Security+ on the other hand recommends some experience and while being considered entry level for info sec; it's still valuable knowledge to obtain if that's your desired career path.

N2IT

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Yes, they are. It has been that way for about half a decade since IT departments were scaled back or phased out all together to be replaced by contractors and service providers who are obsessed with the various ISO standards and market their services to clients as "Certified Technical Support". In order for those companies to get their ISO certification, they have to have employees who are certified by CompTIA with the A+, Network+, and Server+ or other applicable certs. Where I live, which is an area with lots of IT contracting jobs, you can't get hired for much of anything without CompTIA certs, including help desk jobs.

Which ISO standard are you referring to? ISO 17024?

WafflesAndRootbeer

N2IT wrote: »

Which ISO standard are you referring to? ISO 17024?

Among others, yes. CompTIA certs have been closely tied to ISO certification for companies for quite some time because they are standardized and it's considered to be a "best practice" (common sense) to have certified technical professionals doing the work. That's why companies made the certs mandatory for employment in IT roles years ago.

N2IT

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Among others, yes. CompTIA certs have been closely tied to ISO certification for companies for quite some time because they are standardized and it's considered to be a "best practice" (common sense) to have certified technical professionals doing the work. That's why companies made the certs mandatory for employment in IT roles years ago.

The trinity just went to 17024 this year. In the years past they had no ANSI or ISO association.

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

I've had the pleasure of working on several help desk and most of the people don't have certifications. This crap about having to get certified to get a help desk job now a days is just bunk. Having a degree even an AAS a charismatic smile/professional look, and communication skills can get you on entry level. I've seen a waitress from Denny's get hired on over a guy with A+. She was in her first semester at ITT.

So.....how attractive was she?

(Anyone naive enough to believe "that's sexist," "that's not relevant" or any other Politically Correct-like crap is pretty much naive and deluding themselves. I HAVE seen attractive women get promoted and raises based on how hot they are [and perhaps other things]....it would make one ill.)

I will add though that I have worked with very bright and exceptionally smart women who were also on the attractive side.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

So.....how attractive was she?

(Anyone naive enough to believe "that's sexist," "that's not relevant" or any other Politically Correct-like crap is pretty much naive and deluding themselves. I HAVE seen attractive women get promoted and raises based on how hot they are [and perhaps other things]....it would make one ill.)

I will add though that I have worked with very bright and exceptionally smart women who were also on the attractive side.

She was a pretty gal who knew how to flirt that's for sure. When we would go out she would always sit on our managers lap. Of course this was after a few drinks.
ERP you and your details!

Zartanasaurus

N2IT wrote: »

She was a pretty gal who knew how to flirt that's for sure. When we would go out she would always sit on our managers lap. Of course this was after a few drinks.
ERP you and your details!

Wow .

Zartanasaurus

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Yes, they are. It has been that way for about half a decade since IT departments were scaled back or phased out all together to be replaced by contractors and service providers who are obsessed with the various ISO standards and market their services to clients as "Certified Technical Support". In order for those companies to get their ISO certification, they have to have employees who are certified by CompTIA with the A+, Network+, and Server+ or other applicable certs. Where I live, which is an area with lots of IT contracting jobs, you can't get hired for much of anything without CompTIA certs, including help desk jobs.

Must be the part of the country you're from. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-military job that required any CompTIA cert.

WafflesAndRootbeer

N2IT wrote: »

The trinity just went to 17024 this year. In the years past they had no ANSI or ISO association.

They have been 17024 certified for several years now. Back in 2008, just so you learn something from this post. But I'm talking about the certs being tied to ISO certification FOR COMPANIES. The CompTIA certs were made mandatory for employment by many companies largely because of ISO20000 which is what lead to the individual certs becoming ISO17024 certified.

N2IT

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

They have been 17024 certified for several years now. Back in 2008, just so you learn something from this post. But I'm talking about the certs being tied to ISO certification FOR COMPANIES. The CompTIA certs were made mandatory for employment by many companies largely because of ISO20000 which is what lead to the individual certs becoming ISO17024 certified.

Waffles and Rootbeer read the article

CompTIA Exams Will Have an Expiration Date! | Pearson IT Certification

ISO 17024 compliance exam must expire every 3 years. This happened Jan 1st not several years back. And I looked all over ISO/IEC websites and found nothing about Comptia being ISO 20000 certified. That is a service management standard and it has nothing to do with Comptia certifications. Besides the only certification that is ISO compliance in two categories is the PMP. ISO 9001 and 17024.

Only 45 companies in the US hold the ISO 20000 Service Management Certification
http://www.isoiec20000certification.com/home/ISOCertifiedOrganizations/ISOCountryListings-US.aspx

veritas_libertas

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

Must be the part of the country you're from. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-military job that required any CompTIA cert.

Same here.

N2IT

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Same here.

I've worked for 3 fortune 500 companies, 3 different government agencies, 1 extremely prominent non for profit hospital and none of those have ever said it was required to have CompTIA certifications. That's down right ridiculous. The only one that I have seen required for some Infosec/IT jobs is Security +.

cxzar20

My Security+ was the worst written test I have ever taken...I only have it for DoD purposes.

N2IT

cxzar20 wrote: »

My Security+ was the worst written test I have ever taken...I only have it for DoD purposes.

On a scale 1-10 how would you rate the difficulty? I had it pretty far down, maybe a 2-3. I thought MS PowerPoint was a harder examination.

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

On a scale 1-10 how would you rate the difficulty? I had it pretty far down, maybe a 2-3. I thought MS PowerPoint was a harder examination.

How difficult are these exams supposed to be? After all, are they not geared for entry level people wanting to break into the industry?

WafflesAndRootbeer

N2IT wrote: »

Waffles and Rootbeer read the article

CompTIA Exams Will Have an Expiration Date! | Pearson IT Certification

ISO 17024 compliance exam must expire every 3 years. This happened Jan 1st not several years back. And I looked all over ISO/IEC websites and found nothing about Comptia being ISO 20000 certified. That is a service management standard and it has nothing to do with Comptia certifications. Besides the only certification that is ISO compliance in two categories is the PMP. ISO 9001 and 17024.

Only 45 companies in the US hold the ISO 20000 Service Management Certification
ISO/IEC 20000 Certification - ISO/IEC 20000 Listings - United States of America

Well allow me to retort....

1. CompTIA received ISO17024 certification for their A+, Network+, and Security+ exams back in 2008. They later implemented the three-year validation window in accordance with ISO17024 guidelines for validating certification currency as they needed time to figure out what would work best with the future exams. If you don't believe me, you can go to the CompTIA website as it's all there for you to read right here: Press Releases > CompTIA Announces Plan to Help IT Professionals Keep Skills Up-To-Date

2. The ISO20000 standard is a pretty big piece of work. It's painfully clear that you are not intimately familiar with it, but don't take that as an insult, as most people with deal with it don't know **** about it beyond the training classes for the exam because much of it is abstract beyond the text. Within the published ISO20000 standard, is a wonderful little section called "Code of Practice". Read that section and then you can discuss this further with me if you like. All the IT service providers on that list you posted have mandatory certification policies per the ISO20000 standard, specifically the "Professional Development" and "Competence, Awareness, and Training" sections of the "Code of Practice". I know this because I've worked for the companies on that list as have some others who post here.

3. I never ever said the certs were ISO20000 certified. I said they were tied to ISO20000 certification for companies, which they are, as requiring your employees to be certified by industry standards for technical work is considered a best practice by ISO/ITIL standards and the IT service providers that have ISO20000 certification implemented that practice to obtain the certification.

N2IT

Turgon wrote: »

How difficult are these exams supposed to be? After all, are they not geared for entry level people wanting to break into the industry?

Here is what the websites says about their certification



CompTIA Security+ certification designates knowledgeable professionals in the field of security, one of the fastest-growing fields in IT.


CompTIA Security+ is an international, vendor-neutral certification that demonstrates competency in:

• Network security
• Compliance and operational security
• Threats and vulnerabilities
• Application, data and host security
• Access control and identity management
• Cryptography

CompTIA Security+ not only ensures that candidates will apply knowledge of security concepts, tools, and procedures to react to security incidents, it ensures that security personnel are anticipating security risks and guarding against them.
Candidate job roles include security architect, security engineer, security consultant/specialist, information assurance technician, security administrator, systems administrator, and network administrator. Organizations that employ CompTIA Security+ certified staff include Hitachi Information Systems (Japan), Trendmicro (Philippines), Lockheed Martin, the U.S. State Department, Prestariang Systems Sdn. Bhd. (Malaysia) and U.S. government contractors such as EDS, General Dynamics and Northrop Grumman. CompTIA Security+ is one of the options for certifications required by the U.S. Department of Defense, for military personnel or military contractors engaged in information assurance activities.

Those role wouldn't indicate a beginner in information technology security. At least not in my opinion.

PC509

N2IT wrote: »

I'm just shocked that so many people do the Comptia's and follow such a structures lesson plan. A+>N+>S+

I took the A+ in the 90's, Server+ in 08 (beta) and Sec+ in 2010. Net+ & Project+ were paid for, so I took them just because.

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

Here is what the websites says about their certification



CompTIA Security+ certification designates knowledgeable professionals in the field of security, one of the fastest-growing fields in IT.


CompTIA Security+ is an international, vendor-neutral certification that demonstrates competency in:

• Network security
• Compliance and operational security
• Threats and vulnerabilities
• Application, data and host security
• Access control and identity management
• Cryptography

CompTIA Security+ not only ensures that candidates will apply knowledge of security concepts, tools, and procedures to react to security incidents, it ensures that security personnel are anticipating security risks and guarding against them.
Candidate job roles include security architect, security engineer, security consultant/specialist, information assurance technician, security administrator, systems administrator, and network administrator. Organizations that employ CompTIA Security+ certified staff include Hitachi Information Systems (Japan), Trendmicro (Philippines), Lockheed Martin, the U.S. State Department, Prestariang Systems Sdn. Bhd. (Malaysia) and U.S. government contractors such as EDS, General Dynamics and Northrop Grumman. CompTIA Security+ is one of the options for certifications required by the U.S. Department of Defense, for military personnel or military contractors engaged in information assurance activities.

Those role wouldn't indicate a beginner in information technology security. At least not in my opinion.

The roles as defined by Comptia do not donate a beginner in IT surely. That said people seem to pick up Security+ in next to no time with some book reading. I suggest that the roles mentioned show the applicability of the qualification to different types of IT professionals as opposed to a requirement of assumed knowledge prior to commencing the qualification. Security matters to all IT professionals and this is a suitable entry level qualification of use to anyone in the field who wishes to embark on study specific to the subject for the first time. In other words, it should be accessible and achieveable by many people, which it is. That said, it remains an exam and unless one studies it's syllabus there are no guarantees one would pass by showing up no matter how qualified one is.

As an experienced Network Professional I might tank N+ because I haven't had a need to worry about server settings for while and forgot a few netstat or nbstat switches..although I imagine I would have a fair shout I might tank A+ because I forgot my PC pin outs and memory settings. A+ is probably the most rote learning intensive of the 'trinity' (The trinity used to be MCSE/MCNE/CCNP back in the day but I digress)..Security+..dunno. Would have to take that test to find out

WafflesAndRootbeer

Turgon wrote: »

How difficult are these exams supposed to be? After all, are they not geared for entry level people wanting to break into the industry?

None of the CompTIA tests are for people looking to break in. They (CompTIA) frequently state that anyone taking the tests should already be employed for a time of around 1-2 years in a job relating to the exam they are taking. That does not fly given how things work today, but it reflects the way things were back in the late 90's and turn of the century when an IT job meant developing employees through on-the-job-training instead of simply poaching them from elsewhere. Most people pass the CompTIA exams through simple memorization of test answers from various companies like ExamCram. Given that the exams are randomized questions and do not consist of many (relative to other exams) questions, it's not hard to pass them if you hammer the content into your brain, but the three-year re-certification requirement is intended to weed out the lesser candidates as they may not get re-certified when the test is refreshed or retain their certification through continued education/proof of continued work relevant to the certs.

Turgon

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

None of the CompTIA tests are for people looking to break in. They (CompTIA) frequently state that anyone taking the tests should already be employed for a time of around 1-2 years in a job relating to the exam they are taking. That does not fly given how things work today, but it reflects the way things were back in the late 90's and turn of the century when an IT job meant developing employees through on-the-job-training instead of simply poaching them from elsewhere. Most people pass the CompTIA exams through simple memorization of test answers from various companies like ExamCram. Given that the exams are randomized questions and do not consist of many (relative to other exams) questions, it's not hard to pass them if you hammer the content into your brain, but the three-year re-certification requirement is intended to weed out the lesser candidates as they may not get re-certified when the test is refreshed or retain their certification through continued education/proof of continued work relevant to the certs.

Hundreds of thousands of people with little or no experience looking to break in take A+ and N+ and have done for years. Cisco recommend experience for those taking on the CCIE. There are many people with very little work experience starting out who have gone on to do that.