Are you surprised more people don't skip CompTIA and go for MS/Cisco certs?

N2IT

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

1. CompTIA received ISO17024 certification for their A+, Network+, and Security+ exams back in 2008. They later implemented the three-year validation window in accordance with ISO17024 guidelines for validating certification currency as they needed time to figure out what would work best with the future exams. If you don't believe me, you can go to the CompTIA website as it's all there for you to read right here: Press Releases > CompTIA Announces Plan to Help IT Professionals Keep Skills Up-To-Date

Very interesting and I am glad you brought this to my attention it was something I wasn't aware of.

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

2. The ISO20000 standard is a pretty big piece of work. It's painfully clear that you are not intimately familiar with it, but don't take that as an insult, as most people with deal with it don't know **** about it beyond the training classes for the exam because much of it is abstract beyond the text. Within the published ISO20000 standard, is a wonderful little section called "Code of Practice". Read that section and then you can discuss this further with me if you like. All the IT service providers on that list you posted have mandatory certification policies per the ISO20000 standard, specifically the "Professional Development" and "Competence, Awareness, and Training" sections of the "Code of Practice". I know this because I've worked for the companies on that list as have some others who post here.

Maybe you are right maybe you aren't bottom line is I looked on 3 sites provided documentation specifying who is certified and who is not and all you are saying is trust me I know. Maybe you do but unless you can provide documentation/proof then we will agree to disagree.

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Yes, they are. It has been that way for about half a decade since IT departments were scaled back or phased out all together to be replaced by contractors and service providers who are obsessed with the various ISO standards and market their services to clients as "Certified Technical Support". In order for those companies to get their ISO certification, they have to have employees who are certified by CompTIA with the A+, Network+, and Server+ or other applicable certs. Where I live, which is an area with lots of IT contracting jobs, you can't get hired for much of anything without CompTIA certs, including help desk jobs.

Which ISO certifications are you referring to? According to what you wrote if a company is ISO certified period (9001, 22000, 27001) if they don't have A+ certified technicians or employees with Comptia certs, the company won't be able to keep it's ISO certification? I'm looking for some clarification.

N2IT

Turgon wrote: »

The roles as defined by Comptia do not donate a beginner in IT surely. That said people seem to pick up Security+ in next to no time with some book reading.

Confusing isn't it?

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

Confusing isn't it?

Not really. A lot of people like to get certifications out of the way quickly so they can spend their time doing other things.

N2IT

Turgon wrote: »

Not really. A lot of people like to get certifications out of the way quickly so they can spend their time doing other things.

I was referring to how easy the exam is/was and the specific high level roles that CompTIA calls out for this certification. How does that have anything to do with how fast people want to get the exam over with?

WafflesAndRootbeer

Turgon wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of people with little or no experience looking to break in take A+ and N+ and have done for years. Cisco recommend experience for those taking on the CCIE. There are many people with very little work experience starting out who have gone on to do that.

Yes, I know that, but those people rarely make a career of IT and they often have to take the tests multiple times to pass, if they ever pass at all. Even with the cramming possible today, the fail rate is pretty high amongst those looking to "break in" because they simply don't have foundation of basic knowledge that comes with experience and they often get saddled with jobs where experience is not only essential but required without formal training, which is another thing of the past in today's IT careers. You know what many companies consider employee training for certifications? Online courses. Gone are the days of physical training unless you enroll in some IT bootcamp.

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

I was referring to how easy the exam is/was and the specific high level roles that CompTIA calls out for this certification. How does that have anything to do with how fast people want to get the exam over with?

I see. Well people do want to knock this exam out pretty fast going by the boards, often to meet the DoD requirement, and usually they seem to. This does include a good number of IT people with experience to be fair. Comptia will want the world and his uncle to take their exams and given that security matters to any IT Professional its understandable they would mention all those roles.

Forsaken_GA

ptilsen wrote: »

First, every cert carries some independent value. A candidate with MCITP:EA, MCSE, A+, and Net+, ceteris paribus, is better than a candidate with just MCITP:EA and MCSE. Perhaps the former candidate isn't much better, but every little bit counts.

Careful, that's a matter of opinion, not fact. I can honestly say my A+ and Net+ never did a damn thing for me, it's always been my Cisco certs that raised the eyebrows.

I'll say the same thing I've always said regarding CompTIA exams - read the material, learn from it, and then move on. It's good introductory material for beginners, but the certs themselves are generally worthless unless they're a job requirement.

Turgon

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Yes, I know that, but those people rarely make a career of IT and they often have to take the tests multiple times to pass, if they ever pass at all. Even with the cramming possible today, the fail rate is pretty high amongst those looking to "break in" because they simply don't have foundation of basic knowledge that comes with experience and they often get saddled with jobs where experience is not only essential but required without formal training, which is another thing of the past in today's IT careers. You know what many companies consider employee training for certifications? Online courses. Gone are the days of physical training unless you enroll in some IT bootcamp.

Employer training for certifications, at least in my experience has been rather dismal if Im honest..for years. At least you get online courses these days and time to sit back and do them. When I started, man I was running around all day getting to desks sorting problems out. No remote tools or even TCP/IP for a while. Back in 1997 when I asked for some Novell training, understandable as I was a newbie Netware admin, I was declined because Novell courses 'were rubbish'. Self study was an imperative then and today remains so, particularly for people with no experience in something they either want to do, or have to do. There is plenty of signature out there of people who have come into this industry with little or no experience, picked up some certifications and made a go of it. It's been happening for years and is still happening although I will concede it is harder to do that today. There are many factors. Millions of people doing that the last 15 years and an industry that is increasingly less reliant on people at the sharp end.

N2IT

Turgon wrote: »

I see. Well people do want to knock this exam out pretty fast going by the boards, often to meet the DoD requirement, and usually they seem to. This does include a good number of IT people with experience to be fair. Comptia will want the world and his uncle to take their exams and given that security matters to any IT Professional its understandable they would mention all those roles.

Maybe I have an Ax to grind with CompTIA.

I like certification vendors who specialize in certain genres of IT. Cisco networking, MS server client operating systems and business applications, ISC2 security, ISACA COBIT and IT Governance, PMI Project Management, SAP ERP/CRM)

I'm not into Wal Mart certification providers. (Wal Mart = trying to take over the world) I think it cheapens our industry. I like specialization, it drives excellence and gives high level technicians the ability to succeed.

N2IT

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Careful, that's a matter of opinion, not fact. I can honestly say my A+ and Net+ never did a damn thing for me, it's always been my Cisco certs that raised the eyebrows.

My Comptia's haven't done anything for me either. It's been my experience and ITIL certifications that have helped out the most. Working with my current boss has helped out the most though. I have learned business strategies, costing, scheduling through him. It's been great.

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

Maybe I have an Ax to grind with CompTIA.

I like certification vendors who specialize in certain genres of IT. Cisco networking, MS server client operating systems and business applications, ISC2 security, ISACA COBIT and IT Governance, PMI Project Management, SAP ERP/CRM)

I'm not into Wal Mart certification providers. (Wal Mart = trying to take over the world) I think it cheapens our industry. I like specialization, it drives excellence and gives high level technicians the ability to succeed.

Yes but you need to *become* a high level technican or specialist. Foundation learning first please. Note I have no skin in the game with Comptia.

N2IT

Turgon wrote: »

Yes but you need to *become* a high level technican or specialist. Foundation learning first please. Note I have no skin in the game with Comptia.

Well I wish there was other vendors in the game. The monolopy is sickening, I hope the MTA's gain leverage.

cxzar20

N2IT wrote: »

On a scale 1-10 how would you rate the difficulty? I had it pretty far down, maybe a 2-3. I thought MS PowerPoint was a harder examination.

Maybe a 5, but only due to how convoluted the questions were. It seemed like quite a few had technically correct answers and it left you searching for the CompTIA answer. I am not sure how the Microsoft questions are, I have never taken one of their tests.

Zartanasaurus

N2IT wrote: »

On a scale 1-10 how would you rate the difficulty? I had it pretty far down, maybe a 2-3. I thought MS PowerPoint was a harder examination.

Easiest exam I've ever taken. 90% of the questions are short, simple sentences. Compare that to 5 paragraph long MS questions, where 99% of the words are filler or distractions.

N2IT

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

Easiest exam I've ever taken. 90% of the questions are short, simple sentences. Compare that to 5 paragraph long MS questions, where 99% of the words are filler or distractions.

Sounds like the PMP


I did take the SQL development MS exam once and failed with a 590. That had some long run on sentences and a lot of XML code.

Zartanasaurus

N2IT wrote: »

My Comptia's haven't done anything for me either. It's been my experience and ITIL certifications that have helped out the most. Working with my current boss has helped out the most though. I have learned business strategies, costing, scheduling through him. It's been great.

In my admittedly small experience, the entry level guys weren't expected to get A+ or Network+. It was usually the guys who were looking to do something more that started out with those certs as a springboard to Cisco or MS.

Turgon

N2IT wrote: »

Well I wish there was other vendors in the game. The monolopy is sickening, I hope the MTA's gain leverage.

I guess we will have to see what happens there. Certainly 300 dollars for the tests alone is prohibitive for many people.

N2IT

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

In my admittedly small experience, the entry level guys weren't expected to get A+ or Network+. It was usually the guys who were looking to do something more that started out with those certs as a springboard to Cisco or MS.

How it worked in one of my departments is liked you just stated. You get into the helpdesk with relatively no experience. You learn the enterprise and other parts of some of the applications involved. Some people exceled at the payroll applications or network connectivity. Usually the ones that went up did excactly what you said. Got their CCNA or HP Proliant server certs etc

joshmadakor

ptilsen wrote: »

...also consider that the chances of failing an MS or Cisco exam attempt are astronomically higher than failing CompTIA...

This made me laugh for some reason. However it's very true

antielvis

In the eyes of someone from the outside, your certification tally can demonstrate how "well rounded" you are in IT. I'm of the personal belief that being well rounded & having the A+/Network+ certifications can do not harm...even for more senior staff.

What people seem to miss on this forum is that a huge swath of IT is supporting SMB (Small and Medium Business). What this means is that you may take care of multiple clients and do everything. You may setup a new Hyper V server, you may build a image and configure it with WDS or you might just fix a problem with Quickbooks on the desktop. No shame in taking more basic certifications & it instills respect from the client. Having a business card with a long list of certifications is hardly detrimental to your career.

Anyone in a client/server environment should have their A+ certification.

Turgon

antielvis wrote: »

In the eyes of someone from the outside, your certification tally can demonstrate how "well rounded" you are in IT. I'm of the personal belief that being well rounded & having the A+/Network+ certifications can do not harm...even for more senior staff.

What people seem to miss on this forum is that a huge swath of IT is supporting SMB (Small and Medium Business). What this means is that you may take care of multiple clients and do everything. You may setup a new Hyper V server, you may build a image and configure it with WDS or you might just fix a problem with Quickbooks on the desktop. No shame in taking more basic certifications & it instills respect from the client. Having a business card with a long list of certifications is hardly detrimental to your career.

Anyone in a client/server environment should have their A+ certification.

Often the best place to start in my opinion. It's how I started, and you get access to lots of things. Unlike the drones in corporate helpdesk cubes. People get starry eyed about corporate stuff. It's not all that. Get some experience in a smaller shop if you can then punt at the larger companies because you many find your prior background, proven, gives you mobility once in a larger shop.