I have a confession...--Windows 8--

AlexNguyen

@Forsaken_GA: Have you tried Windows 8 in order to make your comment ? I agree that Windows 8 won't penetrate the corporate market. For example, we're still using Windows XP Pro and two months ago we were starting to deploy an update from IE 6 to 8. There's a project in progress to migrate to Windows 7 on over 20K PCs in the fall. It costs a lot of money for an enterprise to do such a big deployment. We won't do it every 2 or 3 years. We're forcing to migrate because the end of life (support) for Windows XP in 2014.
Apple makes great products for the consumers, but not for a corporate environment which requires a centralized management IT. Also, Apple products are too much "expensive".

@tpatt100: What I noticed is with Windows 8, if the executable is not digitally signed and verified, it is blocked. So the executable file from Sourceforge.net (Classic Shell) is blocked, but not the one from a "well known" provider like Adobe (Acrobat Reader). Once, I have to unblock a file with Windows 7 because it was an .HTA file downloaded from the internet.
I've made a test by downloading the Classic Shell from a Windows 7 box and copied the executable on my NAS. Then, at the Windows 8 box, I can execute it from the NAS without having to unblock it.

**********

Have you noticed that the support for Flash is built-in IE 10 ? I was trying to install Flash player but the Adobe web site said that it was not necessary.

There's an interesting article about Windows 8 on ZDnet: Microsoft's Windows 8: Will it breathe new life into older PCs? | ZDNet

I have to revert back my HP Mini 311 to a "hackintosh" because I can't get any picture from my webcam with the basic Windows display. So I can't use Skype and I need it for my upcoming trip to Washington D.C.

networker050184

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Windows 8 is a piece of trash. I'm sorry, I know there's a bunch of Microsoft fans about, and folks are going to be MSFT apologists and all, but this OS is going to be a disaster that has the potential to make Vista look like a success.

Simply put, Windows 7 will be the new XP, and 10 years from now, you're going to find Corporate America unwilling to come off of it. Windows 8 will achieve some market share simply due to the fact that folks like Dell, HP, etc will pre-install it. I'm sure the server line will enjoy more success, but Microsoft simply lacks the ability to compete with Apple when it comes to making something pretty *and* functional.

Yeah, and I'm sure there will be plenty Apple fans saying the same as you. Its like the pot calling the kettle black as they say.

tpatt100

I still don't get the Xbox "metro" interface on the Xbox 360. I prefer the PS3 straight bar (XMB) interface, much simpler to navigate. It just makes more sense. Mac OS X adoption of the iOS interface of folder creation and applications being on the desktop just makes more sense if you look at the average computer user. I know the "Start" bar made sense when the Windows 9X series came along but eventually the average person ends up putting the most common apps on the desktop anyways. Help them make the "everything on the desktop" tidier and let them organize it if they want.

What I did not like about the Xbox 360 and from what I have read about Windows 8 was Microsoft putting content to sell you as a priority above content you want to access that you already have. I hope they change this I should have tried the RC first. This annoyed me to no end because on the 360 it was a PITA to find stuff I downloaded. I had to go through the video marketplace and "my videos" was at the very bottom small button with two giant "on sale now" video icons next to it.

Forsaken_GA

AlexNguyen wrote: »

@Forsaken_GA: Have you tried Windows 8 in order to make your comment ?

Yes, I have a TechNet account too, and I don't make it a habit of running off at the mouth on something I don't know anything about.

Apple makes great products for the consumers, but not for a corporate environment which requires a centralized management IT. Also, Apple products are too much "expensive".

Both debatable, but not arguments I'm going to get into here, as it tends to turn into a religious war. The point is, Microsoft is trying to shoehorn a mobile OS into a desktop/laptop product, and their interface for doing so is atrocious. Your average user is going to find themselves upset and frustrated at the drastic change (remember that the people of this forum are not average users). This is a dangerous decision for Microsoft, as part of the reason they've done so well and are so ubiquitous is because people have been exposed to the Microsoft style for god knows how long. By forcing a drastic change that essentially involves retraining a large portion of their users, you've now given your users a choice - if they have to learn something new, why does it necessarily have to be Microsoft? Bottom line, when it comes to UI's and user friendliness, MSFT cannot hold a candle to Apple, they're years behind. This is the wrong time to shove this change down the publics throat.

sratakhin

Forsaken, what don't you like in Windows 8? I know this Metro interface and the lack of Start button can put many people off, but what else?

jibbajabba

Personally I am confused about the UI - I find myself searching for things like mental. Took me a while to find the bloody account settings for the mail client.

But to be honest, didn't we feel the same when vista hit the market? It was for many 'too different' - many people switched back to the classic start menu and so on.

I am sure we will all get used to it eventually.

I like the fact that it has some apps built-in, such as MSN and AntiVirus and email of course.

My private mail is with Office365 - naturally it just worked.

BUT - I still cannot use it. It seems, compared to previous releases, developer really slacked on that one.

I cannot find any appropriate driver for my systems (2012 runs like a**s on my MicroServer and Windows 8 just about on my Lenovo laptop), most apps I am using don't work properly and the list goes on.

Back in the days you had at least beta driver to play with, now with Windows 8 there isn't any support fr my hardware (yet).

So I'll have to stick with 2008R2 / Windows 7 for now.

Oh and wth do we have Metro on Server 2012 ? Working with it is a pain through RDP (trying to open 'charm' for once).

chrisone

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Windows 8 is a piece of trash. I'm sorry, I know there's a bunch of Microsoft fans about, and folks are going to be MSFT apologists and all, but this OS is going to be a disaster that has the potential to make Vista look like a success.

Simply put, Windows 7 will be the new XP, and 10 years from now, you're going to find Corporate America unwilling to come off of it. Windows 8 will achieve some market share simply due to the fact that folks like Dell, HP, etc will pre-install it. I'm sure the server line will enjoy more success, but Microsoft simply lacks the ability to compete with Apple when it comes to making something pretty *and* functional.

This seems to be the average response about every windows OS release and it being compared to apple. Nothing new here honestly, heard it before and then everyone learns to love the OS right when the new one comes out.

To each there own and my own right now is a MAC and i have no problems with it

tpatt100

I don't see what big change Vista made from XP, then again like I said I only use Windows to launch applications. I used the "pin" to Start menu for applications I sometimes use and don't feel like cluttering up the desktop.

sratakhin

This is what I don't understand. For a casual user, the OS is only going to be used to launch Internet browser, office programs and watch movies. What's the big deal? I think I could get used to any OS as long as I don't have to fight to make some drivers work (like I did on my netbook running Xandros Linux) and all programs work.

P.S. I only used XP with the Classic Menu style for the first few years

wd40

wd40 wrote: »

Also, my son has a fancy hp all in one machines with 23" touch screen, I will try on that later

I tried dual booting on the this one, unknown devices worked after updating drivers, with the exception of the touch screen .. currently the only option to make it work is to upgrade a working windows 7 installation ..

I will just wait for the official drivers ...

spiderjericho

AlexNguyen wrote: »

@spiderjericho: If it's for testing purpose, you can download a 90-day evaluation of the final version of Windows 8:
Download Windows 8 Enterprise Evaluation

I have a Technet pro account, but I wanted a few more licenses. I don't see Win8 on the WGU Dreamspark account. Also, they haven't put the Win8 Pro on Technet. I downloaded the Enterprise and regular edition, but I'll just wait for the Pro.

And I agree, Win7 will probably be around in enterprises/SMB until Win9 and the introduction of a tablet and desktop version (not ARM, X64). It would also be nice if they adopt a pricing model like Apple. An OS shouldn't be a couple hundred dollars. They're trying with Win8 though.

But then again the argument is Microsoft is a software company, so them trying to maximize their profits by charging more for their software makes sense. Whereas, Apple is a hardware company, they're computers are a bit more pricier than a Dell, HP, etc.
Cisco, those mfer's, are taking the software and hardware approach and overcharging for both + support. I really hate the ISR2 and later hardware model they've adopted.

petedude

gkca wrote: »

I tried it too and as a result went to best buy and bought a mac

Heck, the thought of Windows 8 makes me want to surf for new Linux distros to replace it with.

demonfurbie

petedude wrote: »

Heck, the thought of Windows 8 makes me want to surf for new Linux distros to replace it with.

try linux mint ... what ive switched all my netbooks/laptops to if 7 isnt feasible

AlexNguyen

spiderjericho wrote: »

Also, they haven't put the Win8 Pro on Technet.
It would also be nice if they adopt a pricing model like Apple. An OS shouldn't be a couple hundred dollars.

The Windows 8 Standard and Pro is the same ISO. It depends on the product key that you enter.

MAC OS X is based on the free Linux OS. So Apple should not charge a lot for it.
While Windows is developped from "zero" by Microsoft. Also, MAC OS X runs "only" on Apple hardware.
Windows can run on multiple PC vendors. So you have to test and support a lot more hardware drivers.

spiderjericho

AlexNguyen wrote: »

The Windows 8 Standard and Pro is the same ISO. It depends on the product key that you enter.

MAC OS X is based on the free Linux OS. So Apple should not charge a lot for it.
While Windows is developped from "zero" by Microsoft. Also, MAC OS X runs "only" on Apple hardware.
Windows can run on multiple PC vendors. So you have to test and support a lot more hardware drivers.

So in Apple's case, it's locked into Apple hardware, which costs more than comparable PCs? Hence my comment Apple is a hardware company while Microsoft is a software company in which they are more concerned with the sales of how many Windows licenses they can sell, hence the certifying it for multiple hardware vendors.

The big controversy besides the metro/desktop is the Surface, which puts them into the Apple territory of hardware sales, which is wrinkling a few of their OEM license partners.

And Red Hat is also based on Linux, doesn't mean they don't charge for it (though obviously not as radical a skin/mod as Apple OSX).

ptilsen

AlexNguyen wrote: »

MAC OS X is based on the free Linux OS. So Apple should not charge a lot for it.

Please tell me you know this isn't true, and that you can find the flaws in your own logic here.

gkca

Apple OS X isn't based on Linux, it's a closed source Unix with some parts of open source BSD Unix code. I run my main workstation on CentOS though and another is Windows 7 which is likely the last Windows for me

petedude

demonfurbie wrote: »

try linux mint ... what ive switched all my netbooks/laptops to if 7 isnt feasible

My comment about surfing for distros was made (partly) in jest, kinda similar to the jab from the guy who said Win8 made him buy a Mac.

I do dig Mint, but it's a resource hog (too graphics heavy for an older notebook!). I checked out Peppermint and Bodhi distros this week, and liked both. One of these may end up on my aging HP notebook next summer when I do the next reload, assuming I don't load up a new quad-core with Mint by then.

WafflesAndRootbeer

ptilsen wrote: »

Please tell me you know this isn't true, and that you can find the flaws in your own logic here.

Apple - Open Source

Contrary to popular belief, Mac OS X is not a secret Unix-powered super soldier with 12-inch retractable claws made of indestructible metal that was developed in an underground bunker in Cupertino. Almost all of what you get in an OS X installation is based on open source code that primarily comes from the Linux developers. Only certain parts of the core of OS X are proprietary to Apple's own development team and those are the parts that they do not make available except under NDA to third-parties who work on Apple's behalf.

bdub

I tried mint on my laptop. It seemed pretty cool but the driver support for wifi is absolutely terrible, it would intermittently drop the connection and many times would never reconnect even after rebooting. I tried every available driver for that adapter and none of them made a difference. I spent many hours trying to make using linux on my laptop feasible so that I could get some extra nix experience outside of work. I've never considered using nix at home again, other than in VM's of course.

WafflesAndRootbeer

bdub wrote: »

I tried mint on my laptop. It seemed pretty cool but the driver support for wifi is absolutely terrible, it would intermittently drop the connection and many times would never reconnect even after rebooting. I tried every available driver for that adapter and none of them made a difference. I spent many hours trying to make using linux on my laptop feasible so that I could get some extra nix experience outside of work. I've never considered using nix at home again, other than in VM's of course.

Check to see if your laptop has a whitelist free BIOS available or if it even has whitelisting and maybe you can swap out the adapter for one that works better. Atheros seems to be the best on Linux though Intel's WiFi adapters also seem to be okay.

JDMurray

The original release of OS X was based on the NextStep OS, which itself was based on BSD 4.3 UNIX (vintage 1986). I couldn't begin to guess how much of that original code base remains in the current release of OS X.

spiderjericho

Well, I decided to take the deep dive. Today, I installed Windows 8 Pro on my Lenovo Y470 Ideapad.

The installation was pretty painless except for not having the Nvidia Optimus, ethernet, bluetooth and camera drivers.

As many have said, there are two Windows 8 interfaces: metro and classic desktop. The metro comes up automatically everytime you start your PC (but there are three work arounds so far to skip it, none automatic in Windows). The user interface is pretty simple. I don't expect to use Metro except for its quick application access for software that you've pinned or metro apps downloaded from the store.

The weird two worlds approach comes into place again when dealing with software. Software downloaded from the store requires a Windows account. So far, the store apps seem to be Metro apps (though I'm sure there are traditional apps in there). The offerings are pretty sparse right now. Traditional software is obtained the same way you've always done. It's kind of weird, non-unified approach.

I don't plan on going back to Windows 7 on the laptop. I do have a desktop with 7 and don't plan on upgrading it until maybe SP1 or Win 9.

+ Quick Boot Times
+Hyper V included with Pro
+Smartscreen
+improved Touch Screen support
+improved Smart Card support

+/- the UI can be considered controversial or good. I personally think Windows 9 should take the Apple approach. Mobile OS and desktop OS. And both of them not smashed together.

-the look of traditional applications on the Metro screen versus Metro apps (you'll see what I mean)
-OWA in IE stinks. I can't access work emails. Firefox requires a third party app like Active Card or something else.
-initially not user friendly

RobertKaucher

wd40 wrote: »

I installed it on a laptop 5 minutes ago, the Apps do not have a close button! .. where is the red X

Windows 8 Consumer Preview First Look | Video Tutorial from lynda.com [free videos]

And all will be revealed...

netsysllc

I have upgraded my main desktop to 8 and a fresh install of 8 on my laptop. Overall it is Windows 7 with some new features and faster boot and shutdown times. Metro does not bother me as it is just a full screen start menu. I do miss aero glass and rounded corners but there are ways to fix that as well. I do not like the visual changes as much on Server 2012 as they waste space on the screen for some of the admin controls but overall I like it.

ptilsen

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Apple - Open Source

Contrary to popular belief, Mac OS X is not a secret Unix-powered super soldier with 12-inch retractable claws made of indestructible metal that was developed in an underground bunker in Cupertino. Almost all of what you get in an OS X installation is based on open source code that primarily comes from the Linux developers. Only certain parts of the core of OS X are proprietary to Apple's own development team and those are the parts that they do not make available except under NDA to third-parties who work on Apple's behalf.

As JD pointed out, OS X was largely based on BSD UNIX, not Linux. The kernel Mac OSX runs on is not at all based on the Linux kernel. As far as the end result, a lot of code did come from Apple, and it is absurd to suggest that because it's based on open-source projects, it should be cheap software. Mac OS X took plenty of work to develop -- probably not half as much as Windows, but still plenty.

wd40

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Windows 8 Consumer Preview First Look | Video Tutorial from lynda.com [free videos]

And all will be revealed...

Thanks, I will take a look later, I found out about the Windows key but still I miss the X.

tpatt100

I downloaded a copy this weekend from Dreamspark via WGU access. I like change and usually have no problem with change but this change is kind of throwing me off a bit. Having access to the desktop I think is what is making getting use to it harder. I click on desktop, see the desktop but if I click on the Windows key up comes Metro. I think it needs a basic tutorial at launch, it had the lame "drag your mouse cursor to the corners" thing.

I think when Windows 95 came out the adjustment from Windows 3.1 is what I might be feeling. Except with Windows 7 I got used to using the taskbar for shortcuts and folders. My desktop is clear pretty much. Now I have to get used to a "start" menu that is full screen.

veritas_libertas

I'm having trouble finding the problem this tile screen is suppose to solve. It's so much easier for me to click the start button in Windows 7 and type in the program I want to start. Having to search through tiles is less intuitive. One click and I type in the program name with Windows 7. I understand that tablets are become more and more common, but for business (which I understand is Microsoft's core business) users this will only confuse them. Most likely my employer will be skipping Windows 8. Hopefully they will make a way to use the older Windows 7/Vista start menu.

I will say that Windows 8 launches much quicker than Windows 7.

demonfurbie

i personally dont care about boot up time as much as usablilty, you can get windows 7 to boot fast if ya need to but on my desktops i rarely turn them off