Cisco Certifications useless?

Levithan

I just wanted to say, I know how you feel!

I've been through a similar bit, except in Germany and Switzerland. I've also tried to gain more skills and become more certified, and even still I haven't been successful yet...

From what I've seen in Europe, there is generally (from the looks of it) a very prejudiced way of hiring that's going on. To be fair, the economy is also not doing as well, even if they claim a "recovery" is going on. I spent 2 years in Switzerland trying to get a job, had many interviews, a few that I thought I had the job, but in the end, they said they ended up hiring a Swiss person instead.

I've also spent alot of time In Norway as well. From what I've seen I can say this: Norway loves the underdog. I've made friends with alot of people who live in Norway, both Norwegian and from elsewhere. Norwegians can and will get all the best jobs. It's a simple fact. Its a very similar system to Switzerland, where, even though they claim they consider everyone, blah blah ect., at the end of the day they will always hire a Swiss over someone else, even if that person is less qualified than the "auslander".

When I say that Norway loves the underdog, I mean that, every successful "auslander" (its the German word, not sure what the Norwegian one is) in Norway has gained success by doing something that the Norwegians DONT want to do. For example, construction, fishing, alot of the farming, ect. Norwegians generally don't want these jobs, and even though Norway has a strong history (think vikings and fishermen), this is truly a thing of the past. Also, with a population of almost 5 million, you have a very limited job market available to you in the Networking field. Many Norwegians also have degrees in Computer Science, and they will get first pickings of any of those jobs. If it doesn't goto a Norwegian, it will probably goto a Swede (Ca. 250,000 Swedes live and work in Oslo).

I'd recommend also trying in Sweden and Denmark to find work. The population in Sweden is almost 10 million, so you have a larger job market there. Also, perhaps gaining a Linux (or other) cert would help broaden your job opportunities?

To be honest, the most IT job postings I've seen for Norway has been for SAP people, perhaps if you have some experience in that field, you could also be better use to someone...


I wish you the best of luck. Norway is a great land overall, and I also would love to make it my home someday. That said, its not easy, and you may end up having to do things you normally wouldn't want to do to get there, but thats life, right?

Keep us posted!

SephStorm

I was so surprised it took everyone so long to focus in on the nation he was trying to get employed in, ignoring any issues specific to norway, you are pitting US hiring vs foreign hiring. I'm not saying that CCNA or any other cert isnt worth as much internationally, just that you cant assume it will hold the same weight.

W Stewart

EdTheLad wrote: »

Pretend you have experience, do you have a friend who works in IT somewhere etc etc... Or be honest and unemployed, the choice is yours!

You'll quickly be unemployed again when you bring down a network or demonstrate in some other way on the job that you don't have the experience you claimed to have. You may also be blacklisted in the IT industry for such a thing. That's assuming you can even make it through an interview. As a guy who has experience in my field, I'd find a very easy to know whether or not a guy was BSing me about his experience if he had none. Any decent hiring manager will pull one of their more knowledgeable employees aside to help interview a potential candidate like they did with me at my current job before hiring me.

W Stewart

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

ja aber Sie wissen nicht die Norweger

I worked for a Norwegian company for years and spent time in Oslo and other places. Some of the most incompetent people I have ever seen worked for the company in Norway. It is practically impossible to fire them. Let me just say I saw some serious preferential treatment towards the Norwegians versus everyone else, after all it was a Norwegian company right but I digress.

I would first ask, how did you end up in Norway and especially since you do not speak Norsk? You have put yourself in a bad spot as a foreigner that does not speak the language. I honestly don't know what you should do, post your resume so we can look it over. We really need to see what your CV states

I keep in touch with my former colleagues and have thought about one day moving and working there but it is not easy. My Norsk isn't even conversational, just the basics from working around them so long.

We need to know more information. Where do you come from? What kind of work have you done. being a CCNP is cool, congrats but that doesn't tell us what you have/can do.

Impossible to fire? I stand corrected.

W Stewart

Mak0811 wrote: »

Well how i came to be in Norway is one big story but now im here so im here. I have basic Norwegian language skills which i can use to communicate with other Norsk speakers. I am by no means fluent but can speak it much better than others who have been here for longer periods of time. As i said before i have a degree in Computer Science. I have experience working as a IT consultant for an Computer retailer in Pakistan. We installed LAN's mostly ranging from small offices to university campuses.



In all honesty i do understand how a network works much more after getting my CCNP than what i understood at CCNA level, that said and done i would have no problems working at an entry level job. I have met people working in the Networking industry without any formal education, but they probably started at a better time.



I agree but am i asking too much for a entry level networking job? I mean dont you need a CCENT for that?

If all these certifications are fancy stickers which i can place on my head while walking around, they certainly werent worth it imho. Most of the concepts i have learnt have been on GNS3 and packet tracer using CBT nuggets/INE training videos. I do understand someone with more practical experience would make a better option. I just want a entrance in the networking world, nothing more.

Solution. Move to a different country.

Mak0811

Anything you people can suggest i should do in order to break into the market? Anything else i should study or something? Moving is a very difficult option since i have a family. If i do move then where too?

The problem i feel is i dont have any great on hands experience like working for an ISP or Telecom company.

Is there job market somewhere for someone who has what i do, with the little experience i have?

3 year CS Degree
CCNA-R/V, CCDA and CCNP

Any help would be greatly appreciated?

maharaliel

It can happen, because some people do not care about your certification rather they care of what you can do for them.

antielvis

SephStorm wrote: »

I was so surprised it took everyone so long to focus in on the nation he was trying to get employed in, ignoring any issues specific to norway, you are pitting US hiring vs foreign hiring. I'm not saying that CCNA or any other cert isnt worth as much internationally, just that you cant assume it will hold the same weight.

It's not that the certification carries less weight internationally it's that you're talking about very different hiring climates, labour laws, etc in Norway versus the USA.

In a country like Norway or Sweden, labour laws are very strict. The labour market is much slower in terms of job turnover especially in the better positions. Entry level positions are much more difficult to get because the candidates are chosen carefully and, frankly, a local is given preference over a foreigner. In my opinion (being a Swede in Canada) education and certifications carry more weight in places like Norway than they do in North America.

Levithan is correct when he says that an "auslander" (foreigner) often must take less than favourable jobs to break into the market. This looks to be the case everywhere too as I've met some very educated people driving taxi's in places like Canada, America and the UK. It is a shame and a waste of talent but it is the reality of how people are. They will always support their own people before another.

To Mak0811, you could consider Canada if you can qualify for entry into the country. To qualify as a landed immigrant there is a point system where your education, language abilities, etc all count and there are fees. There are also work permits which are not that difficult to get with certains skills but they may make it difficult to bring over your family immediately.

You may try to apply at Statoil which is the Norweigan National oil company. I understand they are open to hiring foreigners and employ many Swedes. They also have offices around the globe.

Good luck.

Mak0811

antielvis wrote: »

It's not that the certification carries less weight internationally it's that you're talking about very different hiring climates, labour laws, etc in Norway versus the USA.

In a country like Norway or Sweden, labour laws are very strict. The labour market is much slower in terms of job turnover especially in the better positions. Entry level positions are much more difficult to get because the candidates are chosen carefully and, frankly, a local is given preference over a foreigner. In my opinion (being a Swede in Canada) education and certifications carry more weight in places like Norway than they do in North America.

Levithan is correct when he says that an "auslander" (foreigner) often must take less than favourable jobs to break into the market. This looks to be the case everywhere too as I've met some very educated people driving taxi's in places like Canada, America and the UK. It is a shame and a waste of talent but it is the reality of how people are. They will always support their own people before another.

To Mak0811, you could consider Canada if you can qualify for entry into the country. To qualify as a landed immigrant there is a point system where your education, language abilities, etc all count and there are fees. There are also work permits which are not that difficult to get with certains skills but they may make it difficult to bring over your family immediately.

You may try to apply at Statoil which is the Norweigan National oil company. I understand they are open to hiring foreigners and employ many Swedes. They also have offices around the globe.

Good luck.

Thanks for your input but Statoil jobs here are highly sought after. They want a minimum of Master for anyone applying. Sadly i only have a BSc in Computer Science. I thought these certifications would give me an edge but unfortunately they have been a waste of time and money.

Dieg0M

If you are trying to start in a new country the best place is Canada and US. The problem there is that turnover is very high. You won't have so much trouble finding a job than keeping it...

Levithan

I find this thread a bit strange in the fact that, many people (including me) would LOVE to have a chance to be in Norway. After all, a full social system with paid healthcare, 37.5 hour workweeks, and 5-6 (sometimes more) weeks of paid vacation a year. You simply won't find that in Canada or the US. Plus, the wages are alot higher than the rest of Europe (outside of Switzerland) and the rest of the world. When I worked in the US I was suprised if I got more than a week paid for holidays.

I guess the point I want to make is, maybe its time you start thinking outside of the box.

I understand that you spend alot of time and money getting those certifications, and that IT is the field you went to school for. I've also spent alot of time doing the same. Sometimes I have gotten really frustrated, feeling rather hopeless at that. But when I take a moment to step a way from it all, I realize how many different opportunities there are in life, if you open yourself up to what you are willing to do. Especially in Norway, the place is flowing with opportunities to make money. You just have to open your eyes and find out where to look.

A couple Norwegian friends of mine have said to me before, "you have to be pretty wasted on drugs or a total alcoholic not to be able to make money in Norway."

I'm by no means equating you to either of those (and I'm sure it may sound extreme), but I'm merely trying to portray something that stood out very strong in my mind when I was there. As I said before, I've seen quite a few success stories of people who came from several places (germany, poland) to Norway, and started new lives there. They all said it was hard at first, but two of the guys' have their own construction companies now, bought houses outside of Oslo, and are having alot better lives than they might have had, had they stayed in their homeland. They all swear by what they're doing now, and told me if I was smart, I'd do the same thing too.

I haven't done it yet, but that's not to say that I might not try sometime. Like anything, progress takes time. Perhaps you will look back on this time in your life someday and realize you made the right choice by staying. Or perhaps you will have gone somewhere else. The choice is yours. Just take a moment to realize that you still have it better than 98% of the world, and the rest of those would trade everything they have to be in your shoes.

Wish you all the best, and good luck!

Jon_Cisco

Mak0811 wrote: »

Thanks for your input but Statoil jobs here are highly sought after. They want a minimum of Master for anyone applying. Sadly i only have a BSc in Computer Science. I thought these certifications would give me an edge but unfortunately they have been a waste of time and money.

It bothers me that you seem to place your success or failure to obtain employment solely on your certifications.

What about your CS degree, was it also a waste of time and money? I have been working towards CCENT/CCNA for the last 6 months but one of the first things I picked up from this site is that certifications will not get you a job. Maybe they will get you the interview.

It sounds like you are in a tight spot but make the best of it. Don't place blame, just work towards a goal. Success is in the journey.

Good Luck!

Mak0811

Levithan wrote: »

I find this thread a bit strange in the fact that, many people (including me) would LOVE to have a chance to be in Norway. After all, a full social system with paid healthcare, 37.5 hour workweeks, and 5-6 (sometimes more) weeks of paid vacation a year. You simply won't find that in Canada or the US. Plus, the wages are alot higher than the rest of Europe (outside of Switzerland) and the rest of the world. When I worked in the US I was suprised if I got more than a week paid for holidays.

I guess the point I want to make is, maybe its time you start thinking outside of the box.

I understand that you spend alot of time and money getting those certifications, and that IT is the field you went to school for. I've also spent alot of time doing the same. Sometimes I have gotten really frustrated, feeling rather hopeless at that. But when I take a moment to step a way from it all, I realize how many different opportunities there are in life, if you open yourself up to what you are willing to do. Especially in Norway, the place is flowing with opportunities to make money. You just have to open your eyes and find out where to look.

A couple Norwegian friends of mine have said to me before, "you have to be pretty wasted on drugs or a total alcoholic not to be able to make money in Norway."

I'm by no means equating you to either of those (and I'm sure it may sound extreme), but I'm merely trying to portray something that stood out very strong in my mind when I was there. As I said before, I've seen quite a few success stories of people who came from several places (germany, poland) to Norway, and started new lives there. They all said it was hard at first, but two of the guys' have their own construction companies now, bought houses outside of Oslo, and are having alot better lives than they might have had, had they stayed in their homeland. They all swear by what they're doing now, and told me if I was smart, I'd do the same thing too.

I haven't done it yet, but that's not to say that I might not try sometime. Like anything, progress takes time. Perhaps you will look back on this time in your life someday and realize you made the right choice by staying. Or perhaps you will have gone somewhere else. The choice is yours. Just take a moment to realize that you still have it better than 98% of the world, and the rest of those would trade everything they have to be in your shoes.

Wish you all the best, and good luck!

Well thank you for you kind insight but the reason i moved to Norway was because of the whole package. I can easily drive a cab and earn enough or probably more than what a senior network engineer would in places like the UK. Unfortunately that is not my aim or goal. The only reason i posted on these tech forums was to get a technical insight into the world of IT and Cisco certifications.

Norway pays specially good for good old handy labour. If you are a plumber, carpenter or mechanic you have hit the jackpot. Unfortunately i wanted to break into the IT scene thats why i wanted to understand how would i be eligible for an entry level position.

Im sure and hopeful that sooner than later i will be on the right track. Thank you for your kind words.

Mak0811

Jon_Cisco wrote: »

It bothers me that you seem to place your success or failure to obtain employment solely on your certifications.

What about your CS degree, was it also a waste of time and money? I have been working towards CCENT/CCNA for the last 6 months but one of the first things I picked up from this site is that certifications will not get you a job. Maybe they will get you the interview.

It sounds like you are in a tight spot but make the best of it. Don't place blame, just work towards a goal. Success is in the journey.

Good Luck!

I never said i have these certifications and why dont i have a job? I just mentioned that i believe i had enough to get an entry level position. Im really finding it hard even to get interviews. Everyone knows a degree is more valuable than some certifications, that was not the point i was trying to make.

Thank you for you words.

Params7

Kind of off-topic but I really admire Norway. From their economic policies to their judiciary (rehab) system as well. I believe its a model for the rest of the civilized world to follow.

antielvis

Params7 wrote: »

Kind of off-topic but I really admire Norway. From their economic policies to their judiciary (rehab) system as well. I believe its a model for the rest of the civilized world to follow.

The country is not without it's problems but the Scandinavian model does work. Norway has over $700 billion dollars in a trust fund saved by putting royalties on oil production. It's unemployment rate is something like 3% & there are not the social ills or poverty there that there are elsewhere. Norway and especially Sweden are very high tech countries where education is a major focus. Almost everyone is at least bilingual if not trilingual. But taxes like VAT (Value Added Taxes) are much higher.

RouteMyPacket

Mak0811 wrote: »

I never said i have these certifications and why dont i have a job? I just mentioned that i believe i had enough to get an entry level position. Im really finding it hard even to get interviews. Everyone knows a degree is more valuable than some certifications, that was not the point i was trying to make.

Thank you for you words.

Have you not understood the fact that your resume looks bad and tells us nothing of what you have done or can do or are we just going to ignore that and keep going in circles here?

Mak0811

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

Have you not understood the fact that your resume looks bad and tells us nothing of what you have done or can do or are we just going to ignore that and keep going in circles here?

As i said before i have minimal experience

''Thank you for your insight. As i mentioned previously i have minimal experience working in the networking industry. I have mostly worked configuring LAN's. Mostly configuring switches like the Cisco 3750,3560. Furthermore i have a lab set up with a couple of 2610 routers + 2950 switches.

As i said the only reason i went far enough to the CCNP level was i was not getting any results with the CCNA. All the jobs i look for are entry level positions, sometimes even advertised for people without experience.

I would appreciate if you could give me some tips on how to refine my CV and make it more ''Sellable'' as you state. Thank you for your time. Greatly appreciated. ''

Can you enlighten me with what skills should a person posses to gain a entry level job in the field of networking? And how do i change my CV for the good.

Dieg0M

Have you had no interviews in 2 years? There might be an issue for finding jobs in your location but from what I can see, you clearly overqualified yourself for the experience you have.

Mak0811

Dieg0M wrote: »

Have you had no interviews in 2 years? There might be an issue for finding jobs in your location but from what I can see, you clearly overqualified yourself for the experience you have.

I have just gotten my CCNP in the beginning of January. I moved to Oslo and have began actively job searching for the past 10 months now. I have had interviews with three different organisations. In the last one which was with an ISP, their head of line transmission told me to go for a CCNP as its becoming the standard of entry level techs. This was my third interview with that particular company, meaning i went through the first two. This was suppose to be the one they offer me the job after.

The other interviews have been with recruitment companies who just want you on their portfolio.

Is it really bad to have technical knowledge of CCNP level? Even if your aiming at a entry level position? I have spent many hours studying watching CBT nuggets, practicing on GNS3 to get my Certs.

Mak0811

Just an update, have been called for a few interviews last week. Infact i got 3 calls for interviews the same day. Have gone through the non technical interviews and have the technical ones left for next week.

Any advice on what sort of technical questions for a network technician, engineer starting at a entry level NOC position would be appreciated.

filkenjitsu

NOC Interview Questions | Glassdoor

eng_mohamed999

I think all Cisco certificates are useless. I finished lots of exams and a very high experience, more than seven year, without any interview form more than four years, although I'm working in the field of networks, but there are no possibility to increase the monthly salary or promotions, my salary now after increasing is 1500$ yearly, I passed all of this exams: CCNA, CCNP, CCIP, CCNA Voice, CCNP Voice, CCIE R&S Written, JNCIA, JNCIS, FCNSA “Fortinet”, BCNE “Brocade”
I was preparing the CCIE lab and I almost ready but the cost of the exam is very high to me with the expense of traveling and the hotel, but after this long period of ignorance from interviewers, I poured and not happy for taking the exam. If anyone asked me “I need to be a Network Engineer” the answer from me telling him to escape from this career.
The first thought for me is to invest all money and time in Cisco certifications to get a better job. To enroll any exam I have to save money from my salary and give up the most basic needs for live to tack the exam. I have to study more than 8 hours daily even in weekend. But without luck, so I tried to study some certificates from other vendors such as Juniper, Fortinet and Brocade, also without luck.
I need to ask any one, is my current job suitable for my qualifications or not? If yes, please identify which other certificates should I take to enhance my knowledge and apply to a new job and upgrade my career. If the answer no, please provide me with a proper mechanism to enhance my ability to get a new job

awaismasood82

Hi
Have you got any Job In Norway?..I am also in Norway and seeking for an entry level job in Networks in Norway ..Have CCNA and a Masters Degree but unfortunately lack of experience...Snakker litt Norsk ...Can you please recommend anything..I am even interested to get an unpaid Internship..TO get some hands-on and practical experience...

Deathmage

It might help you to diversify your certifications. Yes Cisco is a leader but perhaps if you get the CompTIA Trio you will have a much broader skillset to provide to any employer.

Iristheangel

Ehhhh I definitely don't think the CompTIA trio will get you any traction if you're anywhere beyond help desk professionally. I found the CompTIAs to be the biggest waste of money in my certification career and wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

As far as Cisco certifications and their usefulness, it always depends. You can have a CCIE but live in the middle of a non-IT location and of course not find a job. You can have 5 CCIEs with no social skills, hygiene, or the ability to interview well and find no jobs. My experience was that I got my first networking job after my CCNA. After my CCNP, my phone would not stop ringing. Even though I have a great job now and deleted my resume off most job sites, I'm still getting 2-3 calls and 5-6 e-mails a day from recruiters.

I've seen a lot of negative comments about not being able to ever get calls for IT jobs. I think it's usually a mix of why that happens. When I read someone's location and it's in a less densely populated area, 90% of the time it's because there are no IT jobs there. Other times when it's somewhere like Southern California, there's something else because I know the job market is great here.

Just remember that as with any certification, it is not a guarantee of a job. There are a lot of factors that go into getting a good job and people tend to forget that. Your best chances for breaking into the field are going to be looking good, having a well written resume, being articulate, having social skills, and a mix of technical knowledge, certifications, and education. Good luck getting that foot in the door without a combination similar to that. Without experience or certifications to back you up, it's going to be REALLY hard to push on your resume that you know how to configure routers or switches.

Deathmage

Iristheangel wrote: »

Just remember that as with any certification, it is not a guarantee of a job. There are a lot of factors that go into getting a good job and people tend to forget that. Your best chances for breaking into the field are going to be looking good, having a well written resume, being articulate, having social skills, and a mix of technical knowledge, certifications, and education. Good luck getting that foot in the door without a combination similar to that. Without experience or certifications to back you up, it's going to be REALLY hard to push on your resume that you know how to configure routers or switches.

Well said Iris! - Well said.

JeanM

Exactly! Plus, having a bunch of pro certs w/o any real experiences also doesn't help , it takes time.

mesho_emad

u must trust your self to find a job , its difficult but not impossible

N2IT

Don't come to the states unless you want to work 60+ hours a week and 2 weeks vacation