Will Windows 8 go the way of Windows ME and Windows Vista?

powerfool · October 2012

I think one of the huge advantages that we will see with Windows 8, on tablets, compared to other operating systems (specifically iOS) is a much more native and mature support for multitasking... since it is Windows, it's already there.

powerfool · October 2012

SteveLord wrote: »

Correction: They are adopting Apple, Google and Amazon tablets. And Amazon's low price point for the Kindle Fire, footprint in eReader market and ability to make their money back on books is how they got into it. Otherwise, it would totally be Apple and Google.

Apple's products are overpriced and are limited to fanboys and those that just want that Apple feel. People are buying smaller tablets because not many people can justify $600 or more for a "full-sized" that is less capable than a laptop.

Microsoft's involvement comes from poor Windows 7 tablets over the years and smartphones that nobody is buying. They need something attractive. And they are not offering much of anything in my opinion. At least for now. And performance from an actual retail product has yet to be seen.

Microsoft piloted tablets long ago before the cost-point was better and the technology of touch screens were mature enough ($3000 tablet-styled laptop) back with Windows 2k/XP. They had the swivel screens and stylus. They were nice if you didn't mind the bulk... but there wasn't much software that was friendly, either.

In regards to Windows Phone... the carriers (and stores) are a HUGE part of the adoption problem. They downplay them and talk people out of them. I had a salesman at Best Buy try and talk me out of mine and I had to tell him to back off and keep his opinion out of it. I have been running Windows Mobile since the Samsung Blackjack (got the BJII and the Jack) and I know what I want. I enjoy the Metro UI on a touchscreen. The thing works. It integrates with Exchange perfectly and all of my contacts have pulled forward since I first entered them in 2007, because they were stored on Exchange. The other part of the adoption problem is A) there are still fewer apps, and

Microsoft is behind. Hopefully the apps situation will be addressed with more users in Windows 8.

tpatt100 · October 2012

powerfool wrote: »

Apple's products are overpriced and are limited to fanboys and those that just want that Apple feel. People are buying smaller tablets because not many people can justify $600 or more for a "full-sized" that is less capable than a laptop.

Fanboys? Apple sold 100 million iPads so far, that's a lot of fanboys or people looking for that Apple feel... "Apple feel" as in actual apps that are designed for a tablet? The reason Apple tablets are priced that high is because they are actually making a profit. Amazon sells at a loss and Google sells at price because they need to attract people to their market because it was non existent and Android tablets were not selling very well if at all. Web traffic data showing iPad and Android tablet traffic had to scale the iPad to "per 100" vs Android because the charts would have been ridiculous looking.

I have a Nexus and an iPad, the app selection in iOS is huge and it is not a variety of low grade apps either, mainstream developers port to iOS because there is an actual market. Google had to admit developers were not developing apps for tablets that used the screen real estate to it's advantage and developers were saying "aww screw it good enough".

Google to Android devs: make nicer tablet apps, pretty please? | Ars Technica

Android Developers Blog: Building Quality Tablet Apps

Microsoft should price RT at free or almost free if it wants to build market share. They are already subsidizing app developers from what I heard but tablets priced at 400-500 dollars for an unknown OS seems kinda crazy,especially since Office is coming to iOS and Android.

ptilsen · October 2012

I think it's obvious who the real fanboy is here. Haha, working ActiveSync on a phone, what a feature to tout, you know, in 2007, when the fourth or fifth phone platform released with it.

I do think MS has as chance to carve a market for itself in phones and tablets, but so far I haven't seen Windows Phone as compelling. It's definitely usable and bearable (a big improvement over Kin and old WinMo, at that), but just not impressive. The interface just isn't as good as iOS and some of the better Android phones, IMO, and obviously app selection is not great. Still, it's hard not to root for Microsoft, just to help keep competition up and everyone making the best platforms possible.

SteveLord · October 2012

powerfool wrote: »

Apple's products are overpriced and are limited to fanboys and those that just want that Apple feel. People are buying smaller tablets because not many people can justify $600 or more for a "full-sized" that is less capable than a laptop.

Yup, 94% of the Fortune 500 should just be renamed to the Fanboy 500.

And last I checked, the US educational systems are using iPads exclusively. If you can find me 1 school using ASUS Transformers or Samsung Tabs, I will eat my hat.

Microsoft has no chance in phones and a slim chance at the tablets. These initial reviews appear to be in their favor.

AlexNguyen · October 2012

SteveLord wrote: »

If you can find me 1 school using ASUS Transformers or Samsung Tabs, I will eat my hat.

Verizon Wireless powers Maryland schools with Android tablets
Victorian high school deploys Android tablets | Delimiter
High school tries going paperless in pilot program : Sj

Those are not Asus Transformers, neither Samsung Tabs, but at least Android tablets. Will you eat half of your hat ?

SteveLord · October 2012

I'll nibble on the brim a little bit.

tpatt100 · October 2012

SteveLord wrote: »

I'll nibble on the brim a little bit.

Well the articles were in 2011 and the tablets were running Honeycomb...

AlexNguyen · October 2012

Here's what Gartner said about Windows 8: Windows 8 in the enterprise? Not next year, says Gartner - Computerworld

"however good the prospects look for Windows 8 in the consumer market or for tablets, there are no compelling business imperatives to drive legacy devices in business toward Windows 8."
"Therefore, 90% of enterprises will bypass broadscale deployment of Windows 8 through at least 2014,"

students like the iPad and tablets generally, "but you can't take away the laptop" or their need for Office. Students in the class of 2016 enrolled in science or honors program are receiving the Samsung Slate PC.

discount81 · October 2012

varelg wrote: »

Strangely, I haven't seen a topic like this opened when win 7 was about to come out. Why is that?

Generally people use the Beta/RC copies of an OS and get the feel for it.

I recall the vibe about Windows 7 being positive and Microsoft and done vast improvements over Vista.

tpatt100 · October 2012

I think a problem Microsoft might find with Windows 8 tablet in the workplace is the people making the money decisions might be swayed to the iPad not out of it being a better tool but it being more popular.

I guess if your employees are already used to iOS adoption will be easier but Microsoft has the advantage in the enterprise because they probably control the Server side infrastructure and can make Surface "better" due to better integration.

Apollo80 · October 2012

I cannot believe some companies are rolling out Windows 8 so soon. My rule of thumb with Microsoft is to always wait for the release of SP1.

demonfurbie · October 2012

i say microsoft should have made the under the hood changes and left the gui alone (maybe just disable aero) and slowly tweaked the metro interface included it with a service pack and let people activate it if they wanted

AlexNguyen · October 2012

demonfurbie wrote: »

the metro interface ... let people activate it if they wanted

You can disable the Metro interface by changing a registry key: How to disable the Metro interface in Windows 8

I'm using Windows 8 since the RTM and I don't use the Metro interface at all. I boot directly to the desktop and have the Start menu. I've installed the free Classic Shell utility: Welcome to Classic Shell

paulgswanson · October 2012

i say microsoft should have made the under the hood changes and left the gui alone (maybe just disable aero) and slowly tweaked the metro interface included it with a service pack and let people activate it if they wanted

NOW we are talking sense! Spot on mate!

Iristheangel · October 2012

I think Windows 8 is going to be just fine. It's not perfect but the overall feedback I've heard is that it's great once you get past the learning curve. I've had it on a VM for awhile now and it's not bad. It does boot faster than my other VMs and it hasn't crashed on me yet. I think in about 3-4 months of play, I've only had IE 10 crash on me once.

I really think the Surface Pro tablet is going to be the strongest selling point out of this all. There have been some decent tablets out that run Windows 7 but overall, they haven't been as good or functional as I would have preferred. Right now, I have a ultrabook, a company laptop, and a tablet. The ultrabook is less than 3 pounds but it doesn't have a touch screen. I always need to put it down to type or navigate through programs for any extended amount of time. The company laptop is probably about 6-7 pounds. It lives on my desk at work. Nuff said. My tablet is nifty but it doesn't run any of the native applications I would use if I was using it for work or school. If the Surface Pro does everything it claims to do, then I'll be one of the first in line for it. I'd only be too happy to ditch three devices for one.

ptilsen · October 2012

One thing I'm really excited for is the future of all this. Surface Pro looks compelling right now for exactly the reasons Iris described. However, like the iPad, I don't see it replacing a desktop for many tasks. I'm not ever sure I even see it replacing a laptop due to the screen size. For me, it's still looking like three devices, though it could be my sort of "go-to" device when I'm not at a desk. But, things could be different in nine months or a year. Take the current-gen Surface Pro, make it even thinner, even lighter, more powerful, with longer battery life. Give it the ability to connect to a docking station with extended capabilities (multiple monitor output, extra ports, maybe even a discrete GPU). Now you've replaced my desktop, my iPad, and probably my laptop.

demonfurbie · October 2012

i prefer a nice desktop, a 13.3 in laptop, and 7in tablet for on the go

it_consultant · October 2012

The GUI IS their problem. They are getting their sales chipped away by Apple and Google based on a convenient touch screen, something that MS has never had. Now they have an OS capable of running on ARM and intel chips which provide a very similar user experience - even though one can't run legacy apps. Apple can't do that, and Google's chromebook has not been a commercial success. Win or lose, MS had to do something to remain relevant.

AlexNguyen · October 2012

it_consultant wrote: »

They are getting their sales chipped away by Apple and Google based on a convenient touch screen, something that MS has never had.

Microsoft OS has touch screen feature since Windows XP Tablet edition. It doesn't have "multi-touch" feature like Apple or Google, until now.

We're using Xplore (Xplore Technologies - The World's Most Rugged PC) "tablets" with Windows OS since XP and now migrating to Windows 7.

ptilsen · October 2012

The key word in that post was "convenient". Touch screen devices without multi-touch and pinch-to-zoom are virtually unusable for web browsing and many other purposes. The iPhone was probably the first "convenient" touch screen device. Pretty much everything else has been kind of a pain.

AlexNguyen · October 2012

It depends on what you're doing with your device. Sure, it's convenient to have multi-touch capability to surf the web on a small device. But when the PalmOS was first introduced, for me, it was convenient for a pen touch device for its purpose. One of my "old" co-worker is still using his Palm Pilot to store his contacts and agendas.

ptilsen · October 2012

That's fair, and on that note, I still yearn for a smartphone in the BlackBerry Bold format due to the convenience of the keyboard. Seriously, I like my iPhone, but I miss that keyboard. Texting on a touchscreen will always be mildly unpleasant at best and murderously frustrating at worse -- another reason Surface Pro could replace the iPad for me.

N2IT · October 2012

The iPhone is not a phone. Just my two cents pt

ptilsen · October 2012

How do you mean? It's a toy? It's a mobile computing device? I mean, it is many things, but I do still use it as a phone. I will admit it is only okay as a phone -- I suppose it is much better as a sort of ultra-ultra-portable tablet, if you will.

tpatt100 · October 2012

I got used to Windows 7 taskbar. Windows 8 the UI formerly known as Metro made sense back when everybody dumped all their icons on the desktop. Well some people still do that.

SteveLord · October 2012

It boots faster and has "better power management"........probably until you've had it for a couple months or so, then the OS rot sits in. They had the same pitch for Windows 7.

Frankly, until it boots in 5 seconds or less I am not impressed. And I am talking with a RAID setup (which adds to boot time now) and security software installed already.

It's like SSD users that brag about boot times. So what? Who cares? I care about what else it can do 95% of the time. Not what it does the 2 times a month that I reboot my machine.

ptilsen · October 2012

Windows 7 systems now can boot in five seconds on SSDs, if you don't count the BIOS nonsense against them. I expect there will be or are Windows 8 computers with EFI that boot in about that. And any system with an SSD will perform generally quite well in all other tasks. Boot time doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is going to be a reasonable indicator of a mixture of both sustained performance and random I/O.

As far as OS rot, I say nonsense to that. I've been running Windows 7 since pre-SP1, and ran Vista pre-SP1 before that. I didn't experience significant differences in boot time over time, not did I take extraordinary measures to clean the systems. If hard drive space is above 20%, needless startup apps aren't added, and automatic defragmentation is left on (for HDDs), there should be no issue with post-2003 Windows "OS rot".

All that being said, Microsoft added features specifically to allow the OS to "clean" itself. I'm tired, forgetting the exact terms, and too lazy to look it up, but it is discussed in several of the articles Iris posted on the topic, either in this thread or the Surface thread. I've personally not reformatted a system as a lazy way of "cleaning" it since about 2005, but I can recognize that Windows sometimes "needs" it or it can be an easy way to make things faster, so I I'll admit it's potentially a worthwhile feature -- just not for me.

demonfurbie · October 2012

this is how i see it going

the normal user will not switch to windows 8 until forced to. its really sad they made great updates to the core and security of the os but the normal user (and even some IT people) only see a gui, a gui they dont know (fear of the unknown) therefore they wont change, even if later ms adds in a start button and auto disables metro on boot (non touch systems)

SephStorm · October 2012

With any luck I intend to use Windows 7 until its dieing day. or at lest until windows 8 is released.

And yes, Vista was horrible. Ridiculous boot times, horrendous resource management, among other issues. I saw computers with multi core procs and 8GB Ram and decent graphics cards with significant delays in the UI until 7 came out.

Will Windows 8 go the way of Windows ME and Windows Vista?

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