Phoenix university graduates bad rep?

Gorby

My supervisor is interviewing for jr security analyst and stated that he doesn't usually take candidates who graduated from Phoenix university serious, do many employers in IT feel like this about graduates from Phoenix? I have heard this before from others in the past and wanted to know whether anybody personally experienced or heard from their employers about graduates from this school.

gbdavidx

what is phoenix university?

lsud00d

gbdavidx wrote: »

what is phoenix university?

It's an online college but there are physical locations. Some people consider it a paper mill.

TeKniques

The biggest issue most people have with the University of Phoenix is that it is "for profit" and therefore the tuition rates are pretty high. I wouldn't call it a paper mill - it's anecdotal but I know several people that are graduates from UoP that have pretty decent careers. College is like most other things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. To make a blanket statement such as "doesn't usually take candidates who graduated from Phoenix university serious" without even a proper vetting process is more dangerous in my opinion.

Additionally, there are people on this board that have graduated from for profit universities that are doing well for themselves. Perhaps someone who has attended University of Phoenix could offer a more accurate opinion on the school and it's academics.

ratbuddy

It's not just the for-profit status, although that plays a part.

UoP is a financial aid mill. They exist only because anyone can get a student loan, and anyone in the military can pick a school, no matter how poor the actual education is. UoP is in business to get those government dollars, and they don't care one bit about post-grad success, as long as the checks clear or uncle sam pulls out the wallet. UoP will do everything in their power to keep that student in good status. If that means cake assignments, that's what they do. Even if the student (they admit anyone, or almost anyone, regardless of chances of success, I think that's one reason why their accreditation was in jeopardy) fails to maintain SAP, UoP gets a semester or two worth of student loan dollars. Google around, you'll see. This isn't my personal experience, it's purely anecdotal, so please don't sue me, UoP.

I'm not in a position to hire anyone (yet :P) but if I was, I would toss UoP resumes right in the trash - anyone who falls for their sales pitch probably has poor critical thinking skills.

edit: Heh, here's a quote from wikipedia (has sources, not just random wikinonsense):

USA Today has listed University of Phoenix as a "red flag" institution for posting a student loan default rate (26%) that surpassed its graduation rate (17%).^[37] According to USA Today, the University of Phoenix's Detroit campus has a graduation rate of only 10%, but a student loan default rate of 26.4%.^[38] A 2010 report found that the University of Phoenix's online graduation rate was only 5 percent.^[39] According to collegecalc.org, tuition costs are typically 300% to 500% more expensive than community colleges.^[40]

gbdavidx

you mean university of pheonix? i was trolling. my work seems to partner with them and doesn't seem to care

TeKniques

ratbuddy wrote: »

It's not just the for-profit status, although that plays a part.

UoP is a financial aid mill. They exist only because anyone can get a student loan, and anyone in the military can pick a school, no matter how poor the actual education is. UoP is in business to get those government dollars, and they don't care one bit about post-grad success, as long as the checks clear or uncle sam pulls out the wallet. UoP will do everything in their power to keep that student in good status. If that means cake assignments, that's what they do. Even if the student (they admit anyone, or almost anyone, regardless of chances of success, I think that's one reason why their accreditation was in jeopardy) fails to maintain SAP, UoP gets a semester or two worth of student loan dollars. Google around, you'll see. This isn't my personal experience, it's purely anecdotal, so please don't sue me, UoP.

Yes, there are quite a few concerns with the school, but what you described is what for profit does - just to make money.

ratbuddy wrote: »

I'm not in a position to hire anyone (yet :P) but if I was, I would toss UoP resumes right in the trash - anyone who falls for their sales pitch probably has poor critical thinking skills.:

So you mean to tell me that if you're hiring for a Network Engineer position and you get a resume from a UoP graduate that has a CCIE certification you will just throw it in the trash without vetting the candidate with at least a phone interview? Might be an extreme example, but come on ... every situation is different.

QHalo

If you're basing a candidate solely off where they went to school rather than if they're right for the job, then you're just being ignorant. It's your prerogative to do so, but tell me who you work for so I can avoid your organization altogether. That's just a poor attitude.

ratbuddy

Can you guys really claim if you had a stack of a hundred resumes to get through, the UoP resumes would or should stay in the running with schools that don't have a horrible reputation?

gbdavidx

i'd like to know too

gbdavidx

If he had a CCIE with a few years as a network engineer he would seem like a good candidate, your basing solely on the fact that he went to a for profit school and aren't even giving him a chance to interview, so what company do you work for?

QHalo

ratbuddy wrote: »

Can you guys really claim if you had a stack of a hundred resumes to get through, the UoP resumes would or should stay in the running with schools that don't have a horrible reputation?

I consider it a form of discrimination. Legal or not. If I had a pile of resumes to go through I could skim each one to see if they even met the basic requirements before I could specifically look for 'University of Phoenix'.

Danielm7

QHalo wrote: »

I consider it a form of discrimination. Legal or not. If I had a pile of resumes to go through I could skim each one to see if they even met the basic requirements before I could specifically look for 'University of Phoenix'.

Is it then also discrimination if you specifically pick someone out because they want to an ivy league school? People make judgements based upon the desirability of the items listed on resumes.

QHalo

Even the guy that finished last in his class at an Ivy League school is still a doctor/lawyer. Where they went to school is irrelevant to me. That's all vetted through experience and interview. I pick people based on experience, qualifications and personality. Just because you went to an Ivy League school doesn't mean you're not a turd and wouldn't fit in when the UoP candidate does. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't agree with it and I don't subscribe to it. It's my 'opinion' that its a form of discrimination.

Iristheangel

QHalo wrote: »

I consider it a form of discrimination. Legal or not. If I had a pile of resumes to go through I could skim each one to see if they even met the basic requirements before I could specifically look for 'University of Phoenix'.

I don't think he was saying that he was specifically going to look for UoP before anything else. I can understand some peoples prejudice against for profit schools. Education is what you make of it. I've seen some awesome people come out of for profit schools and I've seen some duds that couldnt even spell "IP." I think what ratbuddy touched on was the fact that UoP has a reputation for letting people pass no matter what and that's why the graduates can get a poor reputation.

That being said, I went to WGU and I realize some people may throw out my resume based on my college so I don't rely on just my degree. I make sure to be able to speak to the technology, certify and maximize my experience

QHalo

ratbuddy wrote: »

I'm not in a position to hire anyone (yet :P) but if I was, I would toss UoP resumes right in the trash - anyone who falls for their sales pitch probably has poor critical thinking skills.

I don't know Iris, looks pretty specific to me.

AverageJoe

What school one goes to is one factor that may be considered by some, but I think I'd actually give extra weight to a UoP graduate because I'd realize that person probably completed school while working full time and perhaps while taking care of a family. That's the kind of go-getter I want in my organization!

I've never attended UoP, but I have friends who have and I would never judge them badly because of that choice. I'm more likely to think someone attended a particular B&M party school to, well, party.

Just my 2 cents.
Joe

AverageJoe

So actually, the problem demonstrated by the stats posted is not that anyone can graduate, but just the opposite: only 10% or 17%, depending on which number you use, actually graduate.

Using that line of reasoning, the problem is that the school will accept anyone even if they have a very low likelihood of completing a program. This argument would say that the school knows you'll probably only last a semester or three, but doesn't care because it's looking for those short-term profits.

The problem with that argument is that a lot of schools do the same. My local B&M community college, NVCC, has a near-100% acceptance policy and a lot of people never complete their 2-year degree.

One measure of a school's success is its graduation rates, so schools like UoP and my local B&M CC don't look so good in that light. On the other hand, some would argue that UoP and my local CC are both extremely accessible and provide an opportunity for people who might never otherwise even try college. Sure, a lot of them won't graduate, but then there are those who do! And they may not have had the opportunity to do so otherwise. That's pretty cool.

Joe

Cisc0kidd

I pretty much agree with Ratbuddy. A UofP degree has a stink to it. I might even take the guy with no degree over the one with a UofP degree! To discriminate is to make a choice. As long as it isn't illegal or ignorant there is nothing wrong with making informed choices. For profit mill offering little or no education equals an anchor for their students. Chose your school wisely.

Gorby

Sorry I meant University of Phoenix, I could imagine that if this feeling is common than UOP graduates might have lost out on some job opportunities.

Iristheangel

QHalo wrote: »

I don't know Iris, looks pretty specific to me.

Ok. So he throws out UoP's resumes. Oh well... He might even throw my WGU resume out if he got it but I wouldn't waste time worrying about it. I'll go find a better job and be happier for it.

To me, a school isn't worth it if you're not getting a ROI on it. I never saw Devry, UoP, ITTech, etc as superior in regards to school choices. If you're going to sink yourself into $70-100K worth of debt for a piece of paper, you better be asking yourself what you're getting back for that price. If it's an ivy league school, you might get a higher starting salary and make more throughout your career vs a regular brick and mortar university therefore the ROI is achieved. If you're needing an online route, there are plenty of brick and mortar universities out there that provide that same thing without spending 70-100K to get that piece of paper. If you're working, just looking to check a box with HR and you don't care about the prestige in the school, then there are other options out there without sending yourself into debt.

To each their own though. I went a route where I chose a school with minimal costs associated with it and one that I felt like didn't have a negative reputation with most employers. I don't think it was the perfect school by any means and if I was smarter when I was younger, I probably would have gone the brick and mortar route when I could have. There are going to be companies that insist on a top tier school and others that don't care as much. Discrimination? Not by any means - they aren't discriminating against something you don't have control over such as your gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. They are making a choice based on a choice you made. You may not like it or respect it but it's their choice to make.

QHalo

If it wasn't discrimination, then they could say "We don't accept graduates from X college or university" on their job postings. I have yet to see a job posting that says that and there's a reason why. You can't say that because it's illegal to say it. It's no different than apartment communities that would not allow residents with children to live there. Back in Indiana in the early 80s, there was an apartment community that had a sign out front that said "Adult Community, no Children allowed. It was taken down after a few years because you're openly discriminating against parents. Having children is a choice, not something you have no control over. You can't discriminate against someone based on religious background or veteran status. Again, something people have control over.

Cisc0kidd

QHalo wrote: »

If it wasn't discrimination, then they could say "We don't accept graduates from X college or university" on their job postings. I have yet to see a job posting that says that and there's a reason why. You can't say that because it's illegal to say it. It's no different than apartment communities that would not allow residents with children to live there. Back in Indiana in the early 80s, there was an apartment community that had a sign out front that said "Adult Community, no Children allowed. It was taken down after a few years because you're openly discriminating against parents. Having children is a choice, not something you have no control over. You can't discriminate against someone based on religious background or veteran status. Again, something people have control over.

Umm, no. Choice of school is NOT a protected class. It may be poor form to say, "We automatically reject applications from candidates from substandard schools". That doesn't mean they don't do exactly that. Choices we make affect our future. Life 101.

6502

I've known a couple people who got degrees at Phoenix. In both cases they were perfectly qualified for the position or promotion but the place where they worked or wanted to work at required a degree. I don't think someone who makes that decision should be considered less desirable. I admittedly don't have a degree myself and the few times I've been involved in hiring decisions I've been more interested in experience and passion. I do plan on enrolling at WGU and I'm sure there's people that would turn their nose up at that too.

emerald_octane

How did WGU get lumped into this? I think people in general have strong dislike towards for-profits, which have traditionally been delivered online, but WGU is nothing of the sort.

QHalo

OP I think this horse is dead. As you can see most people frown upon UoP, to the point of blatantly not hiring candidates who attending there. Apparently choosing to attend there and then subsequently finding it difficult to find a job is 'Life 101'.

paul78

I've hired people who attended University of Phoenix. I don't particularly care where people get their degree much. But then again, I don't even have a degree so what do I know.

All hiring managers have their own biases including myself.

N2IT

paul78 wrote: »

I've hired people who attended University of Phoenix. I don't particularly care where people get their degree much. But then again, I don't even have a degree so what do I know.

All hiring managers have their own biases including myself.

And it's a wrap!

Seriously though this is the truth. I have my MBA from WGU and it helped me get my last job. However if I was applying for Director level positions or higher I might get bumped by better degrees and experience.

Each situation is case by case impossible to analyze.

daviddws

I hate to break it to everyone, but all schools are for profit. Its just that some get subsidies and others don't. Accreditation is far more an important indicator.

petedude

UofP has earned a bad reputation, probably more for its aggressive solicitation practices to less-prepared students than anything else.

I've seen good reviews and bad on various programs at various campuses. There are certainly better deals than UoP in higher education, but also certainly worse.

spicy ahi

Oh woe is me! I'm a UoP graduate and I've only been employed consistently ever since I began my professional career! Man, I must be missing out on something if I had no problems finding a job with this "terrible paper mill" degree. Honestly, I have had to sift through hundreds of resumes a few times, and I understand the need to pare that number down to a manageable amount. But I usually don't use degrees as a measure to discriminate because in my personal experience, I've learned that degrees don't matter much in IT. What matters most to me are certs and experience, since those are usually indicative of skill set. And let's face it, I'm not interested in the fact that you were able to write papers at Brown. I want to know if you know how to derive a network topology of Cisco devices without relying on CDP or monitoring tools. (That's a question I ask in my interviews and I ask it because you get some really creative answers. Some silly to be sure, but the really interesting answers give me an idea of a person's creativity and thought process)

But since I "fell for their sales pitch" I must have poor critical thinking skills and have been faking my way through IT since 1998. Damn, I'm so good I didn't even know I was doing that! And all along I thought it was all the hours I put in reading, watching videos, and getting hands-on time with the equipment that got me to where I'm at. Thanks for showing me I was totally wrong ratbuddy!