Phoenix university graduates bad rep?

AverageJoe

curtisc83 wrote: »

SNHU is not a for-profit.

Ooof, yes, I just checked and you're absolutely correct. It's a private school, non-public, but not categorized as for-private. I'll make note in my other post.

Joe

Cisc0kidd

Interesting. I think some here way over estimate UofP's reputation. Even ITT and Devry rank ahead of it. Likewise I think they underestimate WGU. It would rank under major state universities for sure but probably equal to many smaller brick and mortar schools. The other big advantage with WGU is bang for the buck. When you can get a degree for $3k or even $6k that is freaking amazing. Heck at that price even a UofP degree would have value if not for their reputation.

AverageJoe

Cisc0kidd wrote: »

The other big advantage with WGU is bang for the buck. When you can get a degree for $3k or even $6k that is freaking amazing.

That I agree with completely! What an awesome opportunity for those looking for certifications and who can self-teach. It's not for everyone, but for motivated people who can work independently, I think it's a super deal. Even those who would look down on the degree itself from WGU should see the value in earning the certs along the way.

networker050184

Cisc0kidd wrote: »

Interesting. I think some here way over estimate UofP's reputation. Even ITT and Devry rank ahead of it. Likewise I think they underestimate WGU. It would rank under major state universities for sure but probably equal to many smaller brick and mortar schools. The other big advantage with WGU is bang for the buck. When you can get a degree for $3k or even $6k that is freaking amazing. Heck at that price even a UofP degree would have value if not for their reputation.

Sure UofP's may rank behind those schools, but in reality does that even matter? Would the person readingyour resume take the time to look up rankings or schools reputations? No, probably not. They likely have their own preconceived opinions on the topic. If it wasn't for this forum I'd think WGU is some useless online paper mill.

AverageJoe

networker050184 wrote: »

Sure UofP's may rank behind those schools, but in reality does that even matter? Would the person readingyour resume take the time to look up rankings or schools reputations? No, probably not. They likely have their own preconceived opinions on the topic. If it wasn't for this forum I'd think WGU is some useless online paper mill.

I think you're right. I always considered AMU, UoP, and WGU to be right at the same level, but I've come to have a higher opinion of WGU because of this forum. I don't think it's right for everyone, but it's a good alternative for some.

curtisc83

networker050184 wrote: »

Sure UofP's may rank behind those schools, but in reality does that even matter? Would the person readingyour resume take the time to look up rankings or schools reputations? No, probably not. They likely have their own preconceived opinions on the topic. If it wasn't for this forum I'd think WGU is some useless online paper mill.

I would check accreditation and ranking. After that I would request the person give me access to their transcripts. I am a firm believer lots of people use fake degrees bought online. Or they went to school and never got a degree conferred but said they did. People like that cheapen people with real degrees that worked hard for them. If it was a entry level job I wouldn't care as much but would still check later.

typfromdaco

Did someone really say that WGU would rank with brick and mortar schools? I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree. I believe that all these for profit schools are all a means to an end, that's it. I didn't like having to spend 8 or 16 weeks in class for my degree program, but I had to read, test, discuss and write pertinent papers that helped me to solidify everything that I learned from each class. It is hard to accept a school that will allow you to complete 60+ college credits in 6 months. If you are trying to justify your degree because you think it is better quality than a graduate of UoP, I would suggest you get off your high horse and realize that it isn't that much better.

curtisc83

AverageJoe wrote: »

I think you're right. I always considered AMU, UoP, and WGU to be right at the same level, but I've come to have a higher opinion of WGU because of this forum. I don't think it's right for everyone, but it's a good alternative for some.

All those schools mentioned above are around the same level because they aren't regional or national ranked. They are also not classified as schools that do any sort of research. Of of the three mentioned I would put WGU as the one I rank the highest. My reason would be because they are non-profit and do not have questionable business practices.

AMU is a for-profit and that is bad in my opinion but the thing that really sticks out as a red flag is the name. American Military University makes it sound military affiliated. Some service members think it is because they don't fully grasp what for-profit or non-profit is. AMU isn't doing that on accident but at least they aren't overly expensive so it could be worse.

Danielm7

typfromdaco wrote: »

Did someone really say that WGU would rank with brick and mortar schools? I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree. I believe that all these for profit schools are all a means to an end, that's it.

Ranking aside, WGU is a non-profit.

typfromdaco

If the average person compares the WGU website to the UoP website, do you really think that would mean anything to them?

curtisc83

typfromdaco wrote: »

If the average person compares the WGU website to the UoP website, do you really think that would mean anything to them?

I think the average person doesn't know WGU even exists. Which is a good thing because no reputation is better than a bad one.

typfromdaco

Thanks Curtis, that is a much more realistic way to come to the conclusion on the credibility of a degree. For example, there is a school here in Belton, Texas called University of Mary-Hardin Baylor that costs around 19,700 each semester for their Masters program. The school is popular in the area, but if you head to Austin no one has heard of it. If I were to go to Grantham University (for profit), which is 28000 cheaper for the same degree, and apply for a job in Washington, the average employer wouldn't know either school.

ratbuddy

typfromdaco wrote: »

I didn't like having to spend 8 or 16 weeks in class for my degree program, but I had to read, test, discuss and write pertinent papers that helped me to solidify everything that I learned from each class. It is hard to accept a school that will allow you to complete 60+ college credits in 6 months.

Sorry, that's rubbish. You're saying 'everyone needs to learn at the same rate, and if some are smarter than others, tough noogies, make them sit there anyway, or the education isn't valid.' That same attitude led to my dropping out of high school in my 4th year, still in 10th grade.

petedude

Danielm7 wrote: »

Ranking aside, WGU is a non-profit.

Which brings me to something I am seeing lately. Other non-profits (not WGU) are starting to advertise pretty aggressively. Someone mentioned SNHU. Out West, National University is an example. I see Cal State advertising themselves more and more aggressively as well.

I think all schools need to be careful about overselling themselves, no matter their profit status/history/pedigree. People get fed up with hype. I actually think that's one of the reasons people are leery of UoP lately-- they've simply oversold themselves to where people think there must be something subpar hiding behind the hype.

curtisc83

typfromdaco wrote: »

Thanks Curtis, that is a much more realistic way to come to the conclusion on the credibility of a degree. For example, there is a school here in Belton, Texas called University of Mary-Hardin Baylor that costs around 19,700 each semester for their Masters program. The school is popular in the area, but if you head to Austin no one has heard of it. If I were to go to Grantham University (for profit), which is 28000 cheaper for the same degree, and apply for a job in Washington, the average employer wouldn't know either school.

Thats funny because I live in Georgetown, TX but just work in Afghan right now. I'm not too far from the Belton area and I've never heard of that school either. Funny how things work like that.

networker050184

curtisc83 wrote: »

I think the average person doesn't know WGU even exists. Which is a good thing because no reputation is better than a bad one.

I think they'd take one look, see it's online and bunch it in with all of the rest.

petedude

networker050184 wrote: »

I think they'd take one look, see it's online and bunch it in with all of the rest.

Fair enough, but the perception is changing as more B&M schools enter the online fray.

curtisc83

petedude wrote: »

Which brings me to something I am seeing lately. Other non-profits (not WGU) are starting to advertise pretty aggressively. Someone mentioned SNHU. Out West, National University is an example. I see Cal State advertising themselves more and more aggressively as well.

I think all schools need to be careful about overselling themselves, no matter their profit status/history/pedigree. People get fed up with hype. I actually think that's one of the reasons people are leery of UoP lately-- they've simply oversold themselves to where people think there must be something subpar hiding behind the hype.

I agree that could be it but I think it might be something else too. The more of something there is it's rarity decreases which make it less valuable. So if Cal State started pumping out a massive amount of degrees online it's perceived value would decrease. The ease of access and obtainability would be the root cause. Replace the name Cal State with any big name school and the same holds true. People like exclusive things.

typfromdaco

We are talking about perception here, if all things are equal concerning online schools, I have met people who attended UoP and would say that their curriculum was on par if not more strenuous than WGU. Because of the reputation that UoP has garnered, it may have an effect on their graduates. The same can be said by an employer who is interviewing a WGU graduate and who has graduated from a "real school" and had to sit in the classes, that there is no way you can learn an entire class and test out in a week, and that it sounds like a shortcut.

bigdogz

To OP:

I plan on going to UoP just to get some of my undergrad work as a cost benefit. Then going to a Brick & Mortar school to finish my BS and then a masters degree. I am going to the B&M school because of the NSA accreditation.

It would also benefit me to get CISM, CFE, and SSCP for the BS. For the masters I should obtain CPP and CISA.

curtisc83

bigdogz wrote: »

To OP:

I plan on going to UoP just to get some of my undergrad work as a cost benefit. Then going to a Brick & Mortar school to finish my BS and then a masters degree. I am going to the B&M school because of the NSA accreditation.

It would also benefit me to get CISM, CFE, and SSCP for the BS. For the masters I should obtain CPP and CISA.

Do you get a discount? UOPX is pretty pricey otherwise.

emerald_octane

typfromdaco wrote: »

We are talking about perception here, if all things are equal concerning online schools, I have met people who attended UoP and would say that their curriculum was on par if not more strenuous than WGU.

What on earth are you even talking about? You clearly know little about WGU if you classified it as a for profit in your earlier post. Do I think WGU provides a better education the UP? Yes. Regional accreditors agree;UoP was in jeopardy of losing their regional accreditation (currently on notice by NCAHLC). That isn't anecdotal evidence, it's fact. WGU has never had anything the sort and is free and clear as of 2013 (their last accreditation evaluation). If it's BS then why hasn't it yet come under fire?

typfromdaco

I was leading to my overall point that the 99% of the people I know dont know the difference between profit, not for profit, regionally accredited, and nationally accredited. They will ask you where your school is, and if you are truthful, you will say online. Most people will automatically assimilate you with the most well known online school, UoP. In conclusion, unless you have a degree from a well known university, let your body of work from certifications and work experience speak for you and your employability. Whether you go to UoP or WGU will be just a check in the box in determining your eligibility for a position.

daviddws

Agreed. The only exception would be Ivy League schools that open more doors to higher level positions.

anoeljr

I go to WGU but could care less what people think about it or any other school. Going to one school over another doesn't make someone better or worse than you. At the end of the day, we're all humans who eat, sleep, take a ****, etc. No one is better than anyone. This has to stop at some point.

Cisc0kidd

typfromdaco wrote: »

I was leading to my overall point that the 99% of the people I know dont know the difference between profit, not for profit, regionally accredited, and nationally accredited. They will ask you where your school is, and if you are truthful, you will say online. Most people will automatically assimilate you with the most well known online school, UoP. In conclusion, unless you have a degree from a well known university, let your body of work from certifications and work experience speak for you and your employability. Whether you go to UoP or WGU will be just a check in the box in determining your eligibility for a position.

If you are talking guy on the street you are likely correct. If you are talking people who work in HR who screen resumes before they get to the technical people, you are decidedly incorrect. They know exactly what Regional accreditation is and what National accreditation is (legitimate but very substandard to RA). Yes they will check both that an applicant actually graduated and that the school is accredited. If some one asked me where I went to school, I would answer with the name. If they inquired further I would go into detail. Yes sometimes a degree is just a checkbox. More often though, it is much more.

ratbuddy

typfromdaco wrote: »

there is no way you can learn an entire class and test out in a week

Completely untrue. Put in the time and work, and it's possible.

aspiringsoul

Well, there are certainly some disheartening comments on here. Some of you would seriously rather hire a person with no degree, instead of a person with a UoP (or any for profit school for that matter) degree? I can understand your logic, if that person without the degree had a greater amount of experience or reputable certifications, but if all things were equal, I would say the person with a college degree would be a better choice, and I think that you would be stupid/opinionated for turning down someone simply because of the fact that they have earned a degree from a school that you disapprove of. You would certainly miss out on a lot of talent otherwise. Some of the best IT professionals that I know have earned their degrees from for profit universities (and others that I know don't even have IT field related degrees).

I know the difference between National and Regional accreditation firsthand. I earned my Associates degree from ITT Technical Institute. It's a decision that I regret very much because of the incredibly high cost (3x as much as an AAS from the local community college) and the lack of regional accreditation. That's one of the reasons why I just earned my bachelor degree at 27 years old when I could have earned it a few years ago, if I had not had to start over due to the lack of regional accreditation. I certainly didn't know the difference between the types of accreditation when I was an 18 year old kid, nor did I know the difference between public, private, and for-profit schools. My parents certainly didn't know either, as I am the first in my family to earn a college degree. ITT Tech appealed to me because the IT classes at the local community college were a joke (at the time but they certainly have improved based on my experience when I took classes there a few years ago). Which would you rather have, 90 minutes lab time or 240 minutes? The recruiters at ITT Tech were pretty damn good at what they do. I guess I was pretty gullible for believing that I could start out making $50k plus with just an AAS degree and little to no work experience. About a year through the program, my eyes were wide open to the reality of the situation, but I was already halfway through, and I'm the type of person to always finish something that I start.

I research everything before I make a significant decision today. My google-fu is certainly much stronger now, than when I was 18 years old. If I knew then, what I know now, then of course I would have enrolled at a brick and mortar school out of high school instead of going to ITT Tech. I'm sure there are many of us here who are older, and therefore wiser who would have made different decisions in hindsight. At least when I was attending ITT Tech, I was going to LAN parties instead of keg parties....although there would have been a lot more women at the keg parties....

I don't fully regret it though, if I had not made the decisions that I had made, then I wouldn't be who I am today. Different life experiences and all that, but I digress.

I've had the opportunity to go to few career fairs and represent the company that I worked for previously in the past. Each time, I've told the kids, don't go to a for profit school (ITT, Phoenix, Devry, etc), go to a community college and public universities. You (and your parents) will save money and time if you wish to transfer to another school. I try to pass on this bit of information any time that I have the opportunity. Regardless of wherever you attained your education, you get out of it what you put into it.

Cisc0kidd

ratbuddy wrote: »

Completely untrue. Put in the time and work, and it's possible.

Especially if you know most or all the material already. Brick and mortar is decidedly best for an 18 yo but the chance to study independently are very limited. If you are already a working professional the WGU model just makes sense.

aspiringsoul

Cisc0kidd wrote: »

Especially if you know most or all the material already. Brick and mortar is decidedly best for an 18 yo but the chance to study independently are very limited. If you are already a working professional the WGU model just makes sense.

I absolutely agree with that statement.