Phoenix university graduates bad rep?

mokaiba

curtisc83 wrote: »

All those schools mentioned above are around the same level because they aren't regional or national ranked. They are also not classified as schools that do any sort of research. Of of the three mentioned I would put WGU as the one I rank the highest. My reason would be because they are non-profit and do not have questionable business practices.

AMU is a for-profit and that is bad in my opinion but the thing that really sticks out as a red flag is the name. American Military University makes it sound military affiliated. Some service members think it is because they don't fully grasp what for-profit or non-profit is. AMU isn't doing that on accident but at least they aren't overly expensive so it could be worse.

what most seem to be forgetting is that WGU is partially funded by the department of education. Not student loans, but actually in the DOEs budget through the star grant. You dont get that type of funding if youre a sham school.

The timeline if you need proof of some sort.

http://www.wgu.edu/about_WGU/timeline

--10 million from DOE.


Also, requires either the governor or state congress to enact a branch of the school.

pitviper

I asked for more info from UoP six years ago…and they still call me today. The relentless sales calls are just one of the reasons that I wouldn’t recommend them.

jesseou812

typfromdaco wrote: »

...there is no way you can learn an entire class and test out in a week, and that it sounds like a shortcut.

First, this statement that you cannot complete a class in a week is patently false and uninformed.

Many community colleges and "real colleges" (cough, cough) accept CLEP, Dantes and University of Regents tests in place of a class. You can actually clear a class with a two-hour long test.

Second, anyone who hires a pedigree is making a huge mistake. I have worked for and with a lot of commissioned officers with pretty diplomas from Ivy League schools and elite military academies. Some of those "real college" grads do not have the common sense God gave a goat. They look good on paper however. Examples on request.

colemic

pitviper wrote: »

I asked for more info from UoP six years ago…and they still call me today. The relentless sales calls are just one of the reasons that I wouldn’t recommend them.

Well you know, if you had just gone to school there, you'd have graduated by now, and they would leave you alone...

N2IT

networker050184 wrote: »

I think they'd take one look, see it's online and bunch it in with all of the rest.

This***

In an interview recently I was asked where WGU located, I said Utah. They asked me how did I like it out there, I said I had never been that the University was on line. No question about it, that it hurt the educations perception in that particular interview.

The body language and facial expression was less than desirable. It wasn't a game changer in my situation, it was almost like the MBA was really getting me places but once they found out it was on line it lost some value.

Honestly the MBA IMO from WGU so far has been treated as a Bachelors + more so than a MBA from Northwestern or Michigan. Which for the cost is okay I am not looking to compete against those folks, in my position I don't need all that education to be honest. And I sure the heck don't need 200,000 in loans.

The way my approach has been was to get the MBA from WGU because it was feasible and affordable. And to augment the rest of my education with project management certifications. That hybrid works really well for me.

But at the end of the day if someone with even less experience comes in with a MBA from a big time business school I full expect to get bumped. And I am okay with it.

Those are just my experiences.

puertorico1985

N2IT wrote: »

But at the end of the day if someone with even less experience comes in with a MBA from a big time business school I full expect to get bumped. And I am okay with it.

I believe that this is the best response regarding school prestige. I got my undergrad online, and am getting my graduate degree online (both schools have B&M, but I am doing the online option) and I understand what that means from an employer's perspective. I do not expect to compete with a Harvard/Yale/MIT graduates, and I am completely fine with that.

To those of you deciding on what school to attend, please do your research and see what is being said about the schools you are looking to attend. Whether it is fair or not, every employer will have something to say on the school that you chose. That bias, or whatever you want to call it, will be either good, bad or indifferent. Make sure to pick a school that will help you in your long term and short term goals, simple as that.

brownwrap

Before the University of Phoenix came along, UOP, stood for the University of the Pacific.

N2IT

puertorico1985 wrote: »

I believe that this is the best response regarding school prestige. I got my undergrad online, and am getting my graduate degree online (both schools have B&M, but I am doing the online option) and I understand what that means from an employer's perspective. I do not expect to compete with a Harvard/Yale/MIT graduates, and I am completely fine with that.

To those of you deciding on what school to attend, please do your research and see what is being said about the schools you are looking to attend. Whether it is fair or not, every employer will have something to say on the school that you chose. That bias, or whatever you want to call it, will be either good, bad or indifferent. Make sure to pick a school that will help you in your long term and short term goals, simple as that.

What I find interesting is that my bachelors from a B&M regionally accredited State School gets more attention than my MBA, my bachelors in business was also affiliated with COBA, college of business administration. They bring it up in interviews and ask me how I liked the experience. They ask me have I been to campus lately etc, (these are regional interviews - 3 state region). The MBA from WGU just gets a once over and then we move on. ***This isn't a bad thing but it doesn't seem good either. The response is usually flat. ***It's the best way I can describe it.

Sometimes I wonder if I should remove the MBA and just keep the bachelors from the State School. I am serious about this.

I need to do some additional research on that. At this point it really is 6 in one hand half dozen in the other.

But then again it helped me get the job I currently have. I don't know it's a tough call, I can tell you this though. If my MBA was from Penn State or any decent state brick and mortar school I would list it without worry. Now I am concerned after going through a few interviews with it on my resume and witnessing the feedback from the interviewer.

I really hope I don't offend anyone, but it almost feels like I should of put the extra work and time in and went to a local B&M master evening program.

But then again I only owe 14,000 in loans not 60,000 - 70,000.

HTH.

SteveLord

Send in a single request for more information and UoP will call you within 30 seconds, follow up regularly and add you to your junk mail list. Until you demand they stop. I put WGU on hold a year ago after being accepted and never have they hounded me to come back.

I personally lump UoP in the same category as ITT. They're both "get educated quick/get highly paid job quick" schemes. The poor and the desperate are their best targets. I tend to avoid things that smell funny, have too much mixed feedback/reviews or are just too pushy.

puertorico1985

@N2IT: That is some great feedback, and I hope others take note. My undergrad degree will not blast open any doors for me, but I know that it has helped me even before I graduated. I was able to land a Networking position about 6 months before I graduated, and have just recently (about a month ago) was offered a NetSec position, and I will credit some of that to my ongoing pursuit of my Masters in Info Assurance. In the interviews for my current position (and the new one), I was never asked a single question about where I got my degree or if it was online or not. I'm sure that some employers will care where you got your degree, but unless it's for a higher-up position (CEO, CIO, CTO, etc...) most employers will only see that you have one of many qualifications.

As TechExams has shown me, it is experience > certifications > degree(s). Get the certs/experience and complement that with a degree. If you are looking for a networking/sysadmin/helpdesk/programming role, the employer should care more about your past experience, the certifications you have obtained, and the ability to demonstrate your knowledge...and all of that should matter more to them than the name of the school you went to.

ratbuddy

Anyone honestly supporting UoP and other for-profits, give this a read and tell me if you haven't changed your mind: This Veterans Day, Help a Vet Avoid a GI Bill For-Profit College Scam - US News

The University of Phoenix takes in more G.I. Bill dollars than any other college or university in the country, but spends less on education (under $900 per student) than almost any other college in the country, instead setting aside more than $1 billion for profit and another almost $1 billion to the call centers and other marketing and recruiting. (Compare this to more than $11,000 spent on instruction, per student, by the public University of Arizona.) University of Phoenix has more than 8,000 recruiters promising a bright future to prospective students, but zero job placement staff, in the latest government data. Because of the low quality education, the University of Phoenix has one of the worst withdrawal rates of schools receiving G.I. Bill funds. (50 percent withdrawal by its bachelors degree students and 66 percent withdrawal by its associate students, compared to 13 percent withdrawal at the University of Maryland and 26 percent at the University of Texas – the only two public universities among the 10 schools receiving the most G.I. Bill dollars.)

Definitely worth reading the rest.

Doyen

That was a good read. Thank you for the link. That is an eye-opening issue I was never aware of. I found it disturbing that some of those for profit schools invest more money into marketing than into education.

AverageJoe

It's not just for-profits that spend a lot on advertising. It's sad that schools spend so much on sports teams, for example, and really that's just another form of advertising.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/07/education/colleges-increasing-spending-on-sports-faster-than-on-academics-report-finds.html?_r=0

Doyen

Since you brought that up, it reminds me of a documentary that I watched on YouTube called "Declining by Degrees: Higher Education" that blew my mind about college sports teams (at the video's 1:39:07 mark) and how they relate to college. This is especially true about the high market value of coach's and how they make money for the school with their sports programs. Because of this, they get paid more than instructors/professors. Also what impression or recognition does a school get if they do not have a sports team, such as WGU, Capital College, etc.?

curtisc83

Doyen wrote: »

Since you brought that up, it reminds me of a documentary that I watched on YouTube called "Declining by Degrees: Higher Education" that blew my mind about college sports teams (at the video's 1:39:07 mark) and how they relate to college. This is especially true about the high market value of coach's and how they make money for the school with their sports programs. Because of this, they get paid more than instructors/professors. Also what impression or recognition does a school get if they do not have a sports team, such as WGU, Capital College, etc.?

People usually like winners and watching sports. University sports are advertising and provide a bridge to the common folk. My schools first football game of the year is against UNC. People that didn't know my school existed will after that. This might even help me standout during a job hunt. A good professor at the school would not have the same effect. Schools with winning seasons usually have better enrollment numbers the following year.


Winning seasons might have additional an side effect of Alumni donations increasing. I am sure most folks have heard of a story about an Alumni donating millions and getting a building named after them. In some cases, Coaches are ensuring some professors even have a job or building to teach in. Schools without sports are at a huge disadvantage and receive zero recognition, even the Ivy's play D1 sports. MIT and maybe a few others would be the exception, but those are not run of the mill schools.

AverageJoe

Yep, that's all true. So while some may point out that for-profits spend a lot on advertising for name recognition, schools with sports teams are doing the same thing. The difference is that one school might pay tons for billboards and magazine ads but another pays tons for sports teams. They're both just advertising their product, and spending plenty of money to do it.

curtisc83

Doyen wrote: »

Since you brought that up, it reminds me of a documentary that I watched on YouTube called "Declining by Degrees: Higher Education" that blew my mind about college sports teams (at the video's 1:39:07 mark) and how they relate to college. This is especially true about the high market value of coach's and how they make money for the school with their sports programs. Because of this, they get paid more than instructors/professors. Also what impression or recognition does a school get if they do not have a sports team, such as WGU, Capital College, etc.?

Just finished the video you posted and its surprising how much of my post above aligns with the documentary. Which I posted before starting it.

aspiringsoul

I and several others that I know have degrees from for profits (a few people that I have worked with have bachelor degrees from ITT and Devry while I have an AAS). While I consider myself to be a successful person, I don't feel that I owe any of my success to ITT Tech.

I remember when I graduated from ITT, I received a call from my recruiter, (who used to be a car salesman) who asked me if I was going to continue on with my bachelors like several of my classmates, to which I declined. I remember how he said, well you're going to probably have a difficult time in this job market, especially without a bachelor degree to which my response was, well that's not what you told me two years ago, I'm not interested. So, I started over, taking classes at a community college while working full time after attaining employment in my field before transferring to IWU. This time, I did my due diligence, and made sure that I was enrolling at a regionally accredited school.

When I graduated from IWU, I received a call from my enrollment counselor (who remembered speaking to me two years previously and remembered details about myself that I had told her) who simply wanted to offer her congratulations and wish me well in my career. You can tell which schools (and the faculty from those schools) really have a desire to see you succeed (rather than make a monthly quota).

What is infuriating to me is that colleges like ITT hand out degrees (in criminal justice for example) that hold no weight in the job market because of the lack of regional accreditation, and then that student is saddled with tens of thousands of student loan debt, and basically SOL. I guess the same can be said for private schools as well (even reputable ones depending on the degree choice by the student), but at least their degrees are accepted by other institutions.

I think that in the future, we'll see less of these for profit schools. Their profit margins will dry up, and the unjustifiably high cost of their education will be exposed by non profit schools offering affordable and accessible programs like WGU (and other brick and mortar schools like Georgia Tech). There is a wealth of information on the web, and even in the media about for profit schools that simply was not there a decade ago.

Cisc0kidd

AverageJoe wrote: »

Yep, that's all hile some may point out that for-profits spend a lot on advertising for name recognition, schools with sports teams are doing the same thing. The difference is that one school might pay tons for billboards and magazine ads but another pays tons for sports teams. They're both just advertising their product, and spending plenty of money to do it.

Sport teams tend be a net money maker for universities. The stated goal goal 8f not for profits is to provide education and research. The for profits stated goal? To make as much money as fast as possible. Comparing the two is a joke.

jfitzg

aspiringsoul wrote: »

I think that in the future, we'll see less of these for profit schools. Their profit margins will dry up, and the unjustifiably high cost of their education will be exposed by non profit schools offering affordable and accessible programs like WGU (and other brick and mortar schools like Georgia Tech). There is a wealth of information on the web, and even in the media about for profit schools that simply was not there a decade ago.

I disagree, as long as the government keeps handing student loans out like candy these for profits will be around. If the govt would stop with their BS "college for everyone" mentality it would solve a ton of issues.

JoJoCal19

curtisc83 wrote: »

People usually like winners and watching sports. University sports are advertising and provide a bridge to the common folk. My schools first football game of the year is against UNC. People that didn't know my school existed will after that. This might even help me standout during a job hunt. A good professor at the school would not have the same effect. Schools with winning seasons usually have better enrollment numbers the following year.


Winning seasons might have additional side effect of Alumni donations increasing. I am sure most folks have heard of a story about an Alumni donating millions and getting a building named after them. In some cases, Coaches are ensuring some professors even have a job or building to teach in. Schools without sports are at a huge disadvantage and receive zero recognition, even the Ivy's play D1 sports. MIT and maybe a few others would be the exception, but those are not run of the mill schools.

ABSOLUTELY true. I remember when Appalachian St beat Michigan, they became instantly known not just nationwide but worldwide. I remember seeing something the next year and after that, their enrollment numbers and and donations from alumni saw dramatic increases. But even just playing the big name schools gets them more recognition.

Cisc0kidd

ratbuddy wrote: »

Anyone honestly supporting UoP and other for-profits, give this a read and tell me if you haven't changed your mind: This Veterans Day, Help a Vet Avoid a GI Bill For-Profit College Scam - US News



Definitely worth reading the rest.

Rat, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him use logic!

aspiringsoul

jfitzg wrote: »

I disagree, as long as the government keeps handing student loans out like candy these for profits will be around. If the govt would stop with their BS "college for everyone" mentality it would solve a ton of issues.

That's true. Well, at least this is a step in the right direction...

CFPB Sues For-Profit College Chain ITT For Predatory Lending > Blog > Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

Doyen

So I guess UoP needs a sports team as an alternative cash cow

curtisc83

Doyen wrote: »

So I guess UoP needs a sports team as an alternative cash cow

Very few college teams are cash cows just a few make money directly off of sports most break even at best. But it does help with other things like I mentioned above so its still a solid investment. UOPX is a lost cause but a good example of a for-profit with a D1 sports program most people don't think is one is Grand Canyon University (GCU). They don't have football but play D1 everything else in the WAC. From my perspective it has helped them not be viewed in the same category as UOPX, NCU, AMU/APU Devry and other for-profits. But in reality they are profit driven and have shareholders looking for a payday just like all their for-profit peers. Because of sports I do think GCU will be one of the few for-profits that will survive after online degrees become common place with the larger universities.

rumbl3

I generally just read these forums. But this post I just had to chime in on it. To the people that would toss out a resume from a UofP graduate.... WOW is all I have to say sucks to be you. Good example here of what you just might be tossing in the garbage (hopefully you follow after the boss finds out).

Good buddy of mine for years had/has cancer late 20's (now he is in his mid 30's). He's been fighting it off and on since then. Went to UofP got a degree in marketing and took some art courses etc. The guy just got promoted once again has worked with espn and quite a few other big names in tv etc. Very well known for his great work, lol guess they should of tossed his resume in the garbage... That no talent hack...

Doyen

I guess a degree is what you invested into it and how you market it to prospective employers. The reality is that there are students from B&M that "rode the wave" to their degree. Associating an entire college institution, like UoP, that all of their graduates are like that is unfair. This topic is an interesting read, but personally, I feel that employers should not have any right to do that with a degree (unless they have been burned before). The only place I feel that it should be acceptable is in academia. If you are applying for a B&M school, I feel an online degree will have to be reviewed a little more (UoP does have campuses), unless you intend to teach online courses or have had experiences teaching B&M previously.

TomkoTech

So for those of you who feel it is wrong that someone would toss a resume out based on their only form of education being from the UoP, how do you decide of the hundreds of resumes received which to call on and which to toss out? You aren't going to interview 100 people for a position. There has to be something you do. I would be curious what your method is since this seems unacceptable to you.

curtisc83

TomkoTech wrote: »

So for those of you who feel it is wrong that someone would toss a resume out based on their only form of education being from the UoP, how do you decide of the hundreds of resumes received which to call on and which to toss out? You aren't going to interview 100 people for a position. There has to be something you do. I would be curious what your method is since this seems unacceptable to you.

If the candidates have equal education look at experience and go from there. If all experience is equal hone in on a candidate based off the degree and where it came from. Even then I would still interview the UOPX candidate because fitting into a team is more important to me than a better degree. Who wants to hire a guy/gal that causes friction in your organization.

aspiringsoul

Doyen wrote: »

I guess a degree is what you invested into it and how you market it to prospective employers. The reality is that there are students from B&M that "rode the wave" to their degree. Associating an entire college institution, like UoP, that all of their graduates are like that is unfair. This topic is an interesting read, but personally, I feel that employers should not have any right to do that with a degree (unless they have been burned before). The only place I feel that it should be acceptable is in academia. If you are applying for a B&M school, I feel an online degree will have to be reviewed a little more (UoP does have campuses), unless you intend to teach online courses or have had experiences teaching B&M previously.

The probability of 100 candidates possessing the same level of experience and certifications is unlikely. After reviewing the experience and certs, then you would filter by the reputability of the academic institution. What I found so offensive by some of the posts in this thread, is that some would toss out the resumes of those who had earned a degree from University of Phoenix regardless of the qualifications of that applicant. I think it's pretty obvious that you would prefer someone with a degree from Stanford over someone with an online degree...but with that being said, I would say it's also pretty obvious that applicant will have higher salary requirements.

Many brick and mortar schools are just now entering (or have just recently entered) the online market, and for many individuals out there who were either unaware of WGU, or online B&M or Community College options available to them, the online for-profits appeared to be their only option at the time. What online school would many of you have preferred before you heard of WGU? Also, many military serviceman have been targeted by for profits (especially UoP) and convinced that they wouldn't have to pay a penny out of pocket to attend, and then guilted into attending because of their lack of educational attainment.

Honestly, I despise for profit schools (because they are only concerned about putting money in the shareholders' pockets) and not about maximizing the educational experience for the student. However, I think that it is an extreme oversight to completely rule out someone based on where they earned their degree.