I'm ready to walk out the door without 2 weeks notice.

TheFORCE

Last year I accepted a position with an international company that the name will not be mentioned. I have not reached the 1 year mark yet, more like 8 or so months but I think i have had enough suffering working here.

The problem is one person that is in charge of the whole IT side, im on the Security side. We both report to the same manager but he has more seniority and also manages a team while I'm all alone.
This person only cares about his stuff being in operational status and doesnt care about security, security for him is hindering operations and nothing is done because it might break something.
He is not willing to work with me and also does not allow his team to work with me. Just today one of his guys was in my office talking about some project and he was constantly looking out in case his manager sees him being in my office.

He has tried to intimidate me on multiple occurrances and I have had enough of this to the point where I dont even care to give 2 weeks notice. Because I have lost all desire to be in the same environment as him and not because of his threats.
Few months ago he showed me a folder saying " this is your folder, I know everything you are doing and I'm keeping tabs and if some time you do something wrong i have this to show againts you"
Yeaterday i had the last of it, after a meeting we had i went to his desk and asked him if he had reviewed one of the proposals for a workflow I had designed. He said he hadnt had time but he had reviewed part of it. He said he can spare 5 minutes, I'm like.. fine ( keep in mind this was the 2nd time I had asked him and other multiple occasions during other meetings. Anyway, during this discussion he didnt like that the work flow was impacting some of his guys and said something that I was not expecting and was so shocked that I couldnt process what he said. Liste to this, the guy tells me " I'm going to bury you and (name of ciso) if this comes back to my team for anything. I was like wtf? This dude cant be serious..

There have been other issues during this period on and off. All my tasks and items depend on IT executing some of it but because of this guy, I'm struggling to perform. I want to get out as i cant even stand this dude's presence. In all my 10+ years in IT, i have never come across such a person.

Need advice and feeback from the community. I've reached out to some recruiters and udpated my resume, will tweak it more over the weekend.
Wanted to know from the community here what will the effect me. Money aside, I'm extremely stressed out to the point where I feel like im going to puke. I need to be part of a team that understands the need for security and not be left alone to manage multiple projects with no support from anyone and on top of that to hear bs like that. I don't take the intimidation to the heart but the fact that someone acts like that it has made me feel to just quit and have my own piece of mine without dealing with bs. I want to go to work feeling happy and not dread the 8 hours thinking this one guy has it out for me and cant wait for me to fail.

BerkshireHerd

You got to man up an talk to your boss. Let him know your unhappy. If you don't walk out of that meeting feeling good put your notice in. Life is too short to be waste around toxic environments. Hopefully you have a rainy days fund for this.

cyberguypr

I agree that life is too short to suffer crap like this. However, as mentioned above, it's unclear to me if you have brought this up to your manager's attention. I'll reserve comment until you clarify that.

Remedymp

Update your Linkedin, and let recruiters know you're available.

superbeast

This does sound like a toxic work environment. Is security side a new department that you were hired into and maybe he sees it as a threat to his department? Maybe the issue isn't with you personally but with the department itself. Maybe he has a good thing going with his team and doesn't want his(your) boss to take people from his department to security. Not justifying his actions because in a professional environment, his actions are outrageous...threats, not taking you seriously, etc. But shedding some light on perspective that his issue is with the department and unfortunately you may be getting the brunt of it by association. Have you tried to talk to him to find out what his issues are so you guys can work them out?

TheFORCE

I have not talked to my manager yet about this specific situstions but I have talked to them for the other issues and mentioned that the guy is not helping, he delays, stalls and blocks any progress im trying to make, will talk to him again today. Even if I talk to my manager I'm so fed up that I just want to move on. Even if the manager says they can talk to him, i have the feeling that nothing will change. The history is that the previous security guy that I replaced was also alone and didn't have a good working relationship with this person and he left. The previous guy was doing everything on his own too, some things were implemented incorrectly and others were unfinished, because he was not getting any help either so he got to the point where he was doing whatever without using IT which caused a bigger rift between the two groups and then i was brought in to correct those project but finding the same hostility . I've made some progress with some but not with other initiatives. This leads me to beleive that it is him and not me. I can take the pressure but this time it feels like it's too much for me or even for the role i am in.

UncleB

Keep all your communications in email form - set reasonable deadlines for things and state on the email that "this needs to be completed by 11am on 1st March" sort of thing - then if it doesn't happen you send a chaser asking why it could not be done and giving a second deadline a few days later.

Keep a digital recorder with you (or use your phone) if you know you are going to a hostile meeting with the guy and record it - it doesn't matter about the legality as you only need to play it back to your boss and it will be enough to cast a huge suspicion on the guy.

Keep detailed records of what you requested, who dealt with it, who blocked it and what the response was. By the time you clock up a few dozen hours of lost time this becomes a tangible loss to the business so you can present this as part of your case to your manager.

You also need to grow a pair and deal with him - it doesn't matter if he is a higher grade than you - you have a job to do which relies on his co-operation so you need to work a way for it to happen. I would start with an email saying "I know we have had our difficulties but we need to work together to get the job done" - this is part of your paper trail to show you are being reasonable and flexible.

Keep copies of this offsite as well just in case it turns into a wrongful dismissal case -you need to be able to show HR that you have been the reasonable one here. You will have timelines, email chains, logs of lost work because of him and recordings of him being an ass - pretty solid grounds to turn things around.

I've been there before and when push came to shove I was reinstated and given a seriously big payout (with NDA) before I resigned and took another job paying 25% more - the confidence from planning and standing my ground gave a real boost, and the cash was a bonus.

Running away from it won't help the next time this happens, so use it as an opportunity to grow.

Just my opinion - you need to find what works for you.

UncleB

TheFORCE wrote: »

The previous guy was doing everything on his own too, some things were implemented incorrectly and others were unfinished, because he was not getting any help either so he got to the point where he was doing whatever without using IT which caused a bigger rift between the two groups and then i was brought in to correct those project but finding the same hostility .

You were brought in to fix this so treat it like a project - identify what things should be like at a process level, find where the shortfall is and create a GAP analysis so you can make a list of recommendations for fixing it.

If your boss knows this is an issue then you give him a list of actions that need to be taken - some will change operational process to accommodate your needs and these will probably involve the other guy. Your boss should then approve the actions and communicate these to the other guy who will then be obliged to follow them. Your plan has a monitoring component that reports on his failings in relation to it and these go to your boss - a bit of a Chinese finger trap if you play it right (the more he struggles, the tighter it becomes).

NetworkNewb

If someone said "They are going to bury me" for something happening. I would be bring that up to everyone. Their boss and HR to start off.

That is crazy man.

I don't know why, but this story made me think of Office Space and Milton burning the building down... (just in comparison that your in bad situation because of one annoying person)

[FONT=&amp]And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...[/FONT]

NotHackingYou

This sounds like a bad situation and it's got to be difficult to think rationally. What do you have to lose by discussing this candidly with your boss? Like said above, if this is the point you're at, chat with your boss about it. If you can't get satisfactory progress on that one meeting, politely give your notice instead, right there at the meeting.

NOC-Ninja

Do not waste your time on your boss if there is seniority. Go straight to HR and tell them what happened. THats a threat.
If someone said that to me, I would tell HR right away. Do not quit just because of 1 guy. You are letting him win.

EDIT:
Bring that up to HR and if they cant fix it then I would suggest to report it to the cops. Make sure you tell them that your next step is to report it to the police. You need to take this seriously.

kurosaki00

Agree with noc, escalate this and file a police report.
Keep communications on email. Depending on which state you live, you can record someone without them knowing, may want to check on that.

DatabaseHead

Have to admit like the police report strategy. A bit over the top, but if HR fails to assist so be it....

devilbones

Fight him in the parking lot after work. I would love for somebody to offer to bury me.

NOC-Ninja

I dont think filing a report is over the top.
If somebody tell you they are willing to bury you then I would take that as it is.
1, you know you are not supposed to say that
2. thats freakin crazy
3. you actually believe that you can do that if you can say that in an office setting.
4. its good if he doesnt do it BUT what IF he did? Am i going to see you in TV? Imma be like, HOLY CRAP! thats that dude in TE! He did got buried!

You should really talk to HR. If that was me, I would sue the company and tell them I will sue them if something happen to me. and they are okay tolerating this.

PCTechLinc

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I dont think filing a report is over the top.
If somebody tell you they are willing to bury you then I would take that as it is.
1, you know you are not supposed to say that
2. thats freakin crazy
3. you actually believe that you can do that if you can say that in an office setting.
4. its good if he doesnt do it BUT what IF he did? Am i going to see you in TV? Imma be like, HOLY CRAP! thats that dude in TE! He did got buried!

You should really talk to HR. If that was me, I would sue the company and tell them I will sue them if something happen to me. and they are okay tolerating this.

I find it very difficult to argue with this logic.

NotHackingYou

I agree, you need to go to HR. But you need to talk to your boss first if you want to salvage anything here.

UnixGuy

If someone says they're going to bury me, they're a deadman walking - joking (not really).

Talk to your boss, and demand action from your boss. If your boss doesn't act, talk to his boss. Make sure that the CISO knows damn well what they guy said about burying him.

The guy is bullying and trying to make you quit. You have the power to get him fired. Play, you've got nothing to lose but a crappy job. You've got skills so you can get another job. Meanwhile, make sure everyone in management and upper management knows in DETAIL what this guy is doing, expose him. The more exposing the better. You will see how weak he is once everyone knows what's up.

When you request (you should DEMAND not request) from him, make sure to make it look like the request came from CISO or upper management not you, so that when he refuses you make it sound like he is screwing with upper management not you.


He is a kid, so agree to everything he says and then hit him where it hurts.

TechGromit

While I'll agree sometimes security is an inconvenience to the business process, it's a necessary evil to keep the organization secured. I would at least one last ditch attempt to make upper management aware for the situation and let them know if they do not resolve it, you'll be looking elsewhere. If two other security guys left before you, surely they know this guy is an issue. They either need to address this issue, or do away with the security role all together.

jeremywatts2005

I wouldn't just walk out. Instead, have the talk with your manager and see what he/she says. Things aren't positive after that keep on working and while you are doing that start interviewing. Use your vacation time if you need to take a trip for an interview or to do one that is long during the day. Also to cover yourself you need to make sure that you are documenting your conversations with the guy you are having issues with. Something like "hey I wanted to briefly recap what we talked about today and see if there is anything I can add" This way it gives the appearance of him being a jerk if he doesn't respond or is quick on the keys to pop off via email. Probably do it late in the day so he has to rush through it and might make a mistake in firing off something crazy. If he doesn't respond follow up the next day and forward him the email and ask him if he had anything to add. This way it looks like you are being cooperative and trying to work with him. All the while he is unwilling. Eventually, enough of these things add up and protect you later if you tries any crap. A lot of guys like you are talking about don't want to be bothered in responding to someone they don't like and will shoot some crazy stuff back via email. Keep your head up and keep working. Study if you need to and grab a certification or two to boost your job change. Remember if you get hired while you are working for them you don't have to use them as a reference either.

volfkhat

What is the matter with whipper-snappers today?!?
You've all gone SOFT.

Don't let this clown try to BULLY you; You gotta Take his @ss OUT.
lol

I would have been secretly recording this clown weeks/months ago. (with those nifty pen/spy recorders).
His "folder" on me, would pale to the "AUDIO" that i had on Him.

Then, you take it to HR and Blow his Doors OUT.

__
Coulda Shoulda Woulda.

Nonetheless, i agree with everyone else; it's time to go speak with your boss/HR.
If you Want tomorrow to be your Last Day... then you can certainly do it;
but at least let them know WHY you are quitting.
(But To simply quit... would give victory to said Bully)

EDIT:
yeah, i see everyone else has already chimed in. Recordings, Police Report, Whatever.
Take that DUDE Out :]

GeekyChick

I love some of the comments, "fight him in the parking lot". That's good stuff. I agree though, don't quit until you talk to your boss or HR and have exhausted everything you could possibly do. I think you would regret it if you did. He would "win" and you'd be out of a job. Who knows, he may be treating others the same way. I quit a job once because this "girl" picked on my constantly and you know what, I regret that I handled it that way. I should have done the spy-pen recorder thing. That would have been awesome!

alias454

Look on the bright side. At least he isn't your boss. With that said, some of what you outlined seems to me like an old dog marking his territory and being fearful of you gaining too much control. You have a mandate from the company to do your job. You are there for that reason, start there. Run your plans past your boss and get their buy in first then talk to him. Lay it out in a manner where it becomes his responsibility. "Fine, you can't/won't/don't want to do it or allocate a resource to get it done, that's okay... then you can sign off on it and explain to our boss why it will negatively impact the business."

It also doesn't hurt to try and find out why he is so resistant to change. Have you taken the time to understand why things are the way they are? Maybe he is just an ass, so be it, you can't make other people change who they are but you can feel better about doing what you can to make the situation better.

Another thing when presenting your ideas to your boss make sure to detail your proposals with relative facts such as legal mandates, ROI, ultimately better process management etc.

Give it a chance to work itself out but keep an eye on the exit as well and be prepared to move out.

Good luck.

Okay, so that is good me bad me says throat punch that dude next time he pops off like that

MitM

Like others have said, speak with your upper management and HR. I can't agree with calling the cops, because if someone told me they were going to "bury me and the CISO", I would take that as they were going to try to bury me as far as the company goes. Either way they meant it, I'd wait a few weeks and have a few surprises at their home.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting you or any TE member go that route

bigdogz

I agree with the others. 1st you have to have documented proof / empirical evidence to bring to HR.
Start recording this clown and have more than one device in your cube / office.
Start documenting in email the items that were not done and why.
"Hey Clown, I requested this to be done 1 week ago. Why hasn't this been completed?" if there is no answer, it could be the best answer.

Keep all recordings and documented times of you trying to get work from him and documentation of you working with your boss about your discussions. Keep this on a device (onsite and offsite) with encryption that is yours and NOT the company's. Under no circumstances is this to be seen or known by anyone else.
I would also get a notarized affidavit from your predecessor. You may want to have him go into detail, the more the better. Vague accusations are weak at best.
It would go a long way if this guys had steady employment and was an all around good guy and show the clown has a history of doing this to others.

If there is not a real security presence at your workplace...
If part of your job is to train fellow employees on basic security principles.... CIA TRIAD and all, you may want to bring in a speaker from ISSA / HTCIA or a vendor that you purchased security products from on security awareness and give examples. Do it as a lunch and learn and it may go over well.

Keep doing your job but be prepared for that clown.
Good Luck.

OK.... no throat punch needed, just use a thick hardbound InfoSec book.
You can say "That domain made me lose my breath too, not as much as you. Bye punkin."
LOL JK

NetworkingStudent

I know everyone else said to document items, but you're getting sick. I bet you get sick when you get up in the morning and think about going to work. Man I have been there, but not this bad.

Going forward document everything you can when communicating with this guy. Print off emails, get a notebook folder ect. I would go to HR first thing in the morning!!! You will feel better.

I would say I feel threatened in the work place and I'm unable to do my job, which is protect and secure the companies network.

Well I would tell HR this

I feel (insert doornoobs name - this is the nicest word I could think of) threatens me because he is scared that the security I want to implement will effect his team. How should we proceed? How do I get him to stop threatening me, so that I can do my job?

---

If you leave the job, you can always find a job somewhere else. You're a smart guy I have seen several of your posts on TE.

I wouldn't just up and quit. If you really need to quit, then please call the unemployment office in your state first and see if you can qualify for unemployment based on your situation.

Good luck and go to HR tomorrow, you will feel better once you do

TheFORCE

NetworkingStudent wrote: »

I know everyone else said to document items, but you're getting sick. I bet you get sick when you get up in the morning and think about going to work. Man I have been there, but not this bad.

Thats exactly how i feel. I dread going to work and having to bud heads with a person like that.

Thanks everyone for the good feedback so far, i think i am a bit calmer now but still not as much. I didnt have a chance to talk to my manager yesterday, we had a busy day, but i did talk to the my CISO about this guy and he also confirmed that is very difficult to deal with him and suggested i go through my manager for what i need which i will start doing.

Another thing why this is getting me frustrated is because of the on purpose misdirection and continuous stalling from his part. Lets say i have X project with tasks A,B,C. He has the habit of reviewing A and then saying, we cant do A because of this and that. Then i go back to the drawing board and find a solution of work around to satisfy his need. I go back to him for review and when he has no more room to stall or point to another direction he will say ok but we cant do B because of this, when B is done, then he says ok but we cant do C. This is causing me to waste a lot of time researching, and energy on things that could have been done earlier.

Perfect example happened yesterday again. I have been asking for a certain item that one of my server needs to finalize a project and have not gotten it in over 6 months. Thing is, on this project this dude has put a requirement also so i am trying to meet his requirements and the thing i am asking for him to do will do just that. However he is not being helpful saying we dont have what i am asking. Yesterday i see a request to install what i need but on a different server! And i am thinking to myself, I've been asking for this for 6 months, for his server all of a sudden it is available while i have been spending 6 months trying to figure workarounds, other methods and trying to put exceptions which no one approves. He knows this so i feel like it is done purposely to delay so his operations doesn't change.

It's like working to solve a puzzle for the entire group, you have all the pieces but the final piece is missing, you go around the group asking who has it and the person who has it says i dont have it and then everyone starts looking to find the puzzle piece while this dude goes around and solves other puzzles until people get bored and quit looking and then i am stuck all alone looking to find the piece.
This happens all the time, the dude misguides and misdirects any time there is conversation about a security project.

Anyway, my resume is updated now, will refine it more and start sending it, i dont find any pleasure going to work to hit heads with people, i go to work to solve problems and fix stuff but cant do that when i need a tool that someone else has but they are not willing to share information or guide to the right direction. Will talk to my manager early in the morning and raise my concern.

On a side note: I did talk to 3 recruiters yesterday and everyone asked why i am considering a move after such a short stay, i was honest and said the working environment doesn't fit my style so i don't know if that is the best approach or if i should find a better way to say i don't like it there anymore.

EANx

It's everyone's job to take down bullies. They thrive because people let them. The problem is that it's often your word against theirs but it sounds like this guy would be easily manipulated.

Turn on phone recording, place in pocket (I'm often playing with mine, if people are used to seeing yours in your hands, leaving it out would get better sound)

Tap on his door and be very reasonable in several requests you know he'll flip out about. Once he gets a little worked up, toss in "do you think that's a reasonable attitude to have when it comes to keeping the corporate assets secure?"

By this point you probably have some good stuff but what should you do with it? Options include:

Go to HR

Go to senior management

If you don't mind burning bridges and yours is a state that only requires single-party consent for recording, put the recording out there for the world to hear. The stock price takes a hit and he'll be fired as an embarrassment if nothing else.

One day after saving a copy of the recording elsewhere, walk into his office and close the door. Tell him "we need to talk" then get very close and whisper what you have on him and what you're prepared to do to destroy his career if the bullying and non-cooperation continues. And that if/when you leave, the recording will be given to someone else in the company.

TheFORCE

Yeah i dont what to go that round or play his game, will make me look just as bad. I am not saying the guy is not knowledgeable or doesnt have experience because he does, but is using that the wrong way.

When i write documents for a security projects and mention item 1,2,3,4 but there might be also item 5 that i do not know about and he does, he will not contribute that item into the projects because supposedly is my responsibility to figure out everything that is to know about this security projects. By doing this, he feels he has the upper hand because if something happens because of item 5 which was not included in the project he can say... see, he didnt put item 5, it;s his fault this didnt work. He tries to instill this same attitude to his guys too telling them if any of their projects requires security, they have to give it to me to figure out even if the guys know something about security, putting me in a position where i need to learn new things fast which is not bad, but i am not familiar with all and everything that is technology out there leaving me to look in every which directions instead of focusing on something specific. This again takes time and effort that i do not have, especially when trying to manage multiple things alone at the same time. No sense of team work at all.

Remedymp

I would not go HR or mangers or anything. I would get the F out that place as soon as possible. If you have enough money saved up, I would just leave.

skswitch

Just wanted to chime in since I see a lot of "record him without him knowing". Since you don't have your state listed you may want to see if that's even legal. I know certain states including mine, the other party has to know you are recording them.

Don't get yourself into trouble or him ammo.

If you are worried about leaving so soon... don't. I left a job after 6 months for different reasons . Similar sick feeling going to work hating it. Just be honest in the interview, not too honest, about the situation. Work environment wasn't allowing you do perform work.

I bet you aren't the only security person who's had this issue. In fact I know you aren't cause a former colleague is having the SAME issue getting blocked on doing work. Except its Security team vs Infrastructure team at-least there lolol.