I'm ready to walk out the door without 2 weeks notice.

jeremywatts2005

Be CAREFUL on the audio recording thing. A lot of companies have a strict policy of recording conversations within the office. It could lead to automatic termination if you reveal you have been recording. You put yourself in a position will doubt if they can trust you and that will lead to a team falling apart. So I would say nix recording devices. Just use email as much as you can since it is considered a historical record. There is nothing illegal or questionable about sending an email.

I did have a manager one time which is not your case but anyway he was a major bully. He would call people into the office and scream at them and argue with them over any little thing. He tried that crap with me so knowing he was a hot head I would send him stuff when he was about to leave the office or right after he left the office so when he got home he would see it. He flew off the handle so many times and it was all via email. Someone thought though one time they would record him and they were met with automatic termination. It was not allowed and HR wouldn't even listen to it.

What really hurt him is that he had a disdain for the military. He did not like Guardsmen and Reservist who had to have a weekend off. I knew he never read anything we gave him. So like two days before drill I sent him a reminder that I had reserve training that weekend and I had submitted a schedule to him a month ago.I then forwarded that email also. He responded to me stating that I couldn't be off that weekend and that unit would just have to understand. I had a job to do this weekend and I needed to double down and not be out of the office for the military so often. Big whoops the hot head got himself into a huge mess. He violated USERRA.

UncleB

skswitch wrote: »

you don't have your state listed you may want to see if that's even legal. I know certain states including mine, the other party has to know you are recording them.

It isn't that we are building a criminal case against him - having the recording to play back to your boss / HR in a private grievance meeting doesn't require a warrant for the recording or two party consent. This is a workplace grievance and there is only a case for the OP to say this guy is threatening me, here is what he said and what can be done about it?

If it came to legalities then I'm sure there are plenty of witnesses you can call on under oath, but it is not likely to ever get this far since your company will keep it all in-house and finally act after the miscreant has been called out (with evidence against them).

The OP is probably best off looking to move on to another job in a few months, but for now they need to take a principled stand to grow personally in my opinion (and stop someone else walking all over them in the next job). Letting a sore like this fester in the company is doing no-one any good either.

bigdogz

It sounds like you want to bail ASAP, but you have to put in some time and give 2 weeks. It is the professional thing to do. In spite of the clown.

If you record him, just act normal. When others hear that you have not lead him on they will his true colors.
It may not be legal but you are trying to prove that you have been threatened. Having this type of evidence is better than hearsay and you can go to HR and the police. Once he is documented it changes the story.

In regards to the item 5 issue, you may want to have an internal and external (of internal network and external network) assessment done periodically. This is a best practice.
This can help you map out the network. Having the network and infrastructure physical / logical diagrams will help you document the network.
It will also show that you are being objective in securing the network. Having the documentation of the 'you should have thought of that' will show the lack of teamwork. You can tell your supervisor that you have locked down everything that you knew of and the assessments will help document and secure the network and infrastructure.

Also make sure that Change controls are in place for management to document any changes that you and the clown makes.
In the change control state the business case, and technically why the change is needed and how it will help.
It also helps the user community.
You will be able to ask the clown:
"Was this documented change updated?"
"When was this piece of the infrastructure added?"

Whose job is it to document the network and infrastructure?
It should be his and not yours. You just document the security aspects of the devices.
Your job is to secure every device in the company making sure there is integrity in the data and available for company use. If said clown does not wish to comply and document the devices that will be your weak point in security.


Good Luck!!!

Hammer80

TheFORCE wrote: »

Few months ago he showed me a folder saying " this is your folder, I know everything you are doing and I'm keeping tabs and if some time you do something wrong i have this to show againts you"

This is the oldest interrogation trick in the book, cops use this all the time, you're sitting in the room waiting and they come in with a folder with your name on it and stick a whole bunch of blank paper in it and then tell you that they have file on you and they know everything about you and what you have been doing so you better tell the truth. He's got nothing on you, it's a bluff.

But yes I agree with everything people have said here, communicate with him over email as much as possible and possibly start to CC some important people, most likely he will miss all the other names and just focus on yours and reply all with something stupid.

Verities

@TheFORCE - That colleague of yours threatened to blackmail you, which is considered a felony in many states. I seriously urge you to go straight to HR and make a formal complaint and to tell them everything that has occurred. Give HR the chance to resolve the situation since that is their responsibility; most bullies back down after they get their pee-pee's smacked.

p@r0tuXus

Step 1) Get digital video recorder watch. Learn to use. Record the conversation of him being duuuuuumb. Do this for a week or two while you build your case. Document all the things.


Step 2) Go on internet and order exotic rhino poo and have it delivered to his office door, Special Courier. Watch the chaos unfold. (No need to document this).


Step 3) ????


Step 4) Profit... Or he quits/is fired.

PJ_Sneakers

If TheFORCE does not update this thread with the other guy telling him to, "Cash me ow sigh! Howbowdah??" I will be a disappoint.

LaSeeno

He sounds like a dbag. Not sure why you don't just tell your boss about it. If some clown came at me like that I would politely let him know (without letting him know) that we could step outside. Play with my livelihood will bring repercussions. Sounds like he is due up for being reprimanded.

LaSeeno

devilbones wrote: »

Fight him in the parking lot after work. I would love for somebody to offer to bury me.

LOL, this is so bad and un PC but some people NEED this.

bigdogz

Yes, sir they do.

NavyMooseCCNA

NetworkingStudent wrote: »

I know everyone else said to document items, but you're getting sick. I bet you get sick when you get up in the morning and think about going to work. Man I have been there, but not this bad.

Going forward document everything you can when communicating with this guy. Print off emails, get a notebook folder ect. I would go to HR first thing in the morning!!! You will feel better.

I would say I feel threatened in the work place and I'm unable to do my job, which is protect and secure the companies network.

Well I would tell HR this

I feel (insert doornoobs name - this is the nicest word I could think of) threatens me because he is scared that the security I want to implement will effect his team. How should we proceed? How do I get him to stop threatening me, so that I can do my job?

---

If you leave the job, you can always find a job somewhere else. You're a smart guy I have seen several of your posts on TE.

I wouldn't just up and quit. If you really need to quit, then please call the unemployment office in your state first and see if you can qualify for unemployment based on your situation.

Good luck and go to HR tomorrow, you will feel better once you do

That is how I feel at the circular firing squad known as my employer at this moment.

JoJoCal19

Everyone else has said what I would say, so I'll just add, get the recorder and go back to his office and while recording ask him "what did you mean that you're going to bury me and CISO?" Get all of that on tape and present it to CISO/HR.

PJ_Sneakers

You gotta get him to repeat it without leading him so much, or he will get suspicious. Just keep asking him for stuff he should be doing but refuses. It sounds like it won't take long for him to snap.

Make it as legit as possible.

BillHoo

All the HR points people have suggested are fine.

What should have been first up was your org structure.

You both report to the same person. Who is that?

Most places, the IT Manager reports to the IT Director/CIO who reports to the CFO.

A lot of Information security positions inefficiently report to the IT Director. They really should report to the CEO. Then, the seniority of the IT guy is irrelevant.

That said, I don't know what business you are in. If it has to do with $$, bring a case study and request the audience of the CEO. Bring HR if you want.

For instance in the case of the Target department store breach. The security guy identified the breach in May and reported it to IT sometime around Aug. IT recommended to the CEO that they NOT make changes to fix the problem because it would interfere with the holiday shopping season and wanted wait til after New Year.

Well, last I saw in 2016 damage from the Target breach was estimated at $40 Million and it continues to climb.

For goverment IT, the Security officer makes the recommendations. If the IT head does not want to implement them, He has to sign a waiver where HE takes all responsibility if something goes bad regarding that system vulnerability.

These are just some things to bring to your CEO.

If you have time. Here are some webcasts to offer insights and ideas:
https://www.sans.org/webcasts/speak-board-directors-about-security-101047

https://www.sans.org/webcasts/post-breach-impact-cost-compendium-100757

The way the industry is right now, you can probably quit and have a BETTER job lined up in no time!

Queue

PJ_Sneakers wrote: »

If TheFORCE does not update this thread with the other guy telling him to, "Cash me ow sigh! Howbowdah??" I will be a disappoint.

Thank you for the laugh!


To OP sorry you are having issues at work that are taking physical repercussions to your health, not cool. Around here the animosity sometimes creeps up between teams. This is when we will poke at maybe the security team and call them genwork.exe because the policies they generate create an administration nightmare down stream. Of course this is all behind the scenes and no one has openly confronted anybody nor would that happen as work flowing downstream is the nature of the industry, policies create work. You have plenty of advice already in this forum, but for a cool down statement it's never a good idea to walk out on a job.

Clm

I would first Document everything he says and show your leadership if your leadership fail to act begin looking for another job. I work security as well and i had customers who would complain about anything we wanted to implement lets say a few incidents happened that we told them would and when the execs came to us we had to show them the paper trail of us warning there IT teams and they ignored us. The FBI had to visit the company people got fired. Any company that dont Value there IT Security team will soon learn the hard way and you dont want to be there when they do

jelevated

OP,

I'd hit the bricks. Let your manager know why you're leaving (in graphic detail).
I hear CISSPs are in demand...

Clm wrote: »

Any company that dont Value there IT Security team will soon learn the hard way and you dont want to be there when they do

absolutely. What I've seen is, ignore IT Sec, get hacked, then blame IT Sec and retrofit. Ignore the new guys as well, rinse repeat. Where I'm at now, IT Sec has the capability to dead stop cold any project that doesn't meet their requirements. They're hated (alot) but security is given prime consideration before golive.

bigdogz

If TheFORCE's boss ignores security as a priority, it's only a matter of time before the environment is owned by some script kiddie.
Not knowing a thing about the environment, the over/under of it being owned is 3.5 weeks, if not already. No offense OP, but it comes down to the weakest link. In this case it' your boss and coworker.

Remedymp

lol@ people talking about 2 week notice professionalism in an environment where he's being threaten about being buried by other staffers. SMH...

NetworkNewb

Remedymp wrote: »

he's being threaten about being buried by other staffers. SMH...

Staffer** individual, I wouldn't say the whole company is bad because of one person. I could understand if he went to HR and the person's boss and things were not changing still. Then not giving a 2 weeks a notice.

DatabaseHead

@OP

I was working on a development project and the boss came over and said "don't look at me when I am talking to you". Trying to avoid conflict and the uncomfortable feeling I was going through, I put my head down and he said, "maggot don't look at my shoes look at your own". Man that really cut at my core, in fact a gal I worked with just gave me this stoned scared look like what just happened. Next day I bounced, no notice. He was a frat guy and thought he was being funny, he wasn't......

dhay13

DatabaseHead wrote: »

@OP

I was working on a development project and the boss came over and said "don't look at me when I am talking to you". Trying to avoid conflict and the uncomfortable feeling I was going through, I put my head down and he said, "maggot don't look at my shoes look at your own". Man that really cut at my core, in fact a gal I worked with just gave me this stoned scared look like what just happened. Next day I bounced, no notice. He was a frat guy and thought he was being funny, he wasn't......

sounds a little like my last boss (company owner/CEO). we were in a meeting with her, myself, AR girl, and head of maintenance. the owner told the AR girl, in front of all of us, that she 'could take on this other task because she has the extra time and everyone in the company knows it, that's why you are the lowest paid in the building'. i looked at the AR girl and she had tears running down her face. that girl ended up getting fired a few months later because she was pregnant and took a day off for a Dr. appt (vacation day). the owner just didn't like her and was looking for any reason to fire her. the AR girl was going to sue (sp?) the company for it but decided against it

LaSeeno

Remedymp wrote: »

lol@ people talking about 2 week notice professionalism in an environment where he's being threaten about being buried by other staffers. SMH...

Worst case scenario, I'm going to get my last two weeks of pay!

Remedymp

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Staffer** individual, I wouldn't say the whole company is bad because of one person. I could understand if he went to HR and the person's boss and things were not changing still. Then not giving a 2 weeks a notice.

That sort of work place terrorism starts at the top and trickles down.

p@r0tuXus

DatabaseHead wrote: »

@OP

I was working on a development project and the boss came over and said "don't look at me when I am talking to you". Trying to avoid conflict and the uncomfortable feeling I was going through, I put my head down and he said, "maggot don't look at my shoes look at your own". Man that really cut at my core, in fact a gal I worked with just gave me this stoned scared look like what just happened. Next day I bounced, no notice. He was a frat guy and thought he was being funny, he wasn't......

Boss or not, I'd spin around in my chair with arms behind my head, elbows sticking out and I'd tell that Frat Boy Todd F*#%-Boy that the difference between his fantasy team and mine was his fondle balls and shower together whereas mine was a team not led by some drunken frat-boy idiot pretending to be a drill sargent so they could get some serious work done... then I'd spin back around with no F*#%$ left to give. Meat head.

Priston

Talk to upper management about these issues. See how much they're willing to back you.

Start creating new security policies. (With CISO approval) Mandate all employees and contractors must abide by the policy standards. Make it a requirement to compile with the standard. Make it state knowingly manipulating the process of meeting compliance may result in disciplinary actions. Then document his non-compliance.

Have an Anti-virus policy, password policy, firewall policy, network access policy, data protection policy, server security policy, and 100 other policies. Have some type of way to audit the security. Have some type of basic security training.

bigdogz

@Remedymp,

This is not a job flipping burgers and he's only 16 years old.
If he goes to a position that will ask about his employment... as you may know things may come around and bite you in the backside sometime down the road. It may not be in 1 month, but 3 years, 5 years later. It goes to show a history of being in one place for a while and being professional. IT has small circles in the local area.

You have to be more professional and have more class than (in this case) some of your coworkers and employer. That's a part of what separates you from them.

bigdogz

dhay13 wrote: »

sounds a little like my last boss (company owner/CEO). we were in a meeting with her, myself, AR girl, and head of maintenance. the owner told the AR girl, in front of all of us, that she 'could take on this other task because she has the extra time and everyone in the company knows it, that's why you are the lowest paid in the building'. i looked at the AR girl and she had tears running down her face. that girl ended up getting fired a few months later because she was pregnant and took a day off for a Dr. appt (vacation day). the owner just didn't like her and was looking for any reason to fire her. the AR girl was going to sue (sp?) the company for it but decided against it

ok.... more clowns as the boss... sorry to hear what happened.

I just believe in karma.

Fulcrum45

Wow. I spent time in the military and at that point in my life I was willing to accept abusive or threatening language. Now however I have zero tolerance for this when it comes from a civilian- or anyone really. Him and I would have had words then and there and it would have been followed up with a word to my boss about my pending visit with HR. No room for people to act that way. I've had jobs where I just wanted to go to lunch and never come back but this takes the cake.

gespenstern

I apologize in advance for being harsh.

Overall it sounds defeatist. Immature. Have you been bullied at school? Been to the Army?

I wish we lived in a different world but we happen to live in this one. Every big enough enterprise and government has office politics which, sometimes, reach really far levels of ridiculousness. I understand that we are about tech here and don't have time and energy to deal with this BS. But reality is, this BS is all over the place, everywhere. If you quit -- where do you go? Is there a paradise on Earth? No, every workplace is crap, there are only different levels of how deep it is.

Fight back! I wish I was at your shoes here. And I actually was, more than once. I accepted the fight and won it in majority of cases. I'm a specialist at winning long and grueling fights.

There are rather simple rules to follow if you are to win.

1. Document everything.
2. Know internal policies and culture well. Know who "popular kids" are and what value do they place in things.
3. Frame situation subtly, but primarily rely on what really happened, there what was documented helps you to compare it to what is allowed/prohibited according to company policies. Chat with admins informally, know the history of how were these policies were applied in the past. If you aren't a chatty guy -- approach HR and ask them directly about this or that clause from policies and what's the history of enforcing them.
4. Don't violate anything yourself. Some suggested above to do recordings -- it's almost surely illegal. Avoid verbal communication, if possible and rely on documented stuff.
5. Don't bother about things not get done. It's not your freaking company. They pay you? You are fine. Document all the roadblocks so when you are asked why it's not delivered you can always point to "that guy" who didn't do his share.
6. Money talk. If some revenues didn't materialize or got lost because your project wasn't complete -- it's ultimately your fault and you will suffer. But do you care if you are ready to quit anyways? The scariest thing they can do is to fire you. But you will be asked to explain WTF with your project and where are the deliveries. That's where you point your finger to "that guy" and do this in a provable way. Screenshots, emails, documents, project mark deadlines with personal responsibilities pointing to whoever failed them. "That guy".
7. Inform your higher ups about the roadblocks all the way, so they can't ask you why the hell you are telling this now when everything has failed already. Do it in a documented way -- emails, so you can prove that you did inform them. If you company has a short retention policy -- store emails in personal pst archives or whatever.

Fight and win! I swear, if I was treated this way the perpetrator would pay a high price for that.

On a bright side if you win, it boosts your self-esteem and raises your weight. It is subtle and subconscious feeling but other people feel who they are dealing with and they will avoid confronting someone who can fight back. If you quit -- you will do yourself a disservice and your self-esteem will suffer and you will frame yourself as a victim in your own eyes.

Also, think about it: if you don't put this a$$hole into his place, he will continue doing that. And another victim could be a less experienced naive young lady. Do we want her to suffer that much? Probably not.

Sorry again, felt that i will express this probably unpopular opinion, lol