State of IT - Biggest problem is the lack of skilled workers

Deus Ex Machina

I didn't want to say where I live. I was just trying to tell you what I've observed. If I'm wrong then hey, I'm a young guy, I have a lot to learn.

I didn't feel like what I said was off topic considering this has mostly turned into a "H1B's are warranted because there's a lack of technical talent vs. H1B's are abused to replace technical talent and to avoid having to pay for training" thread. Restricting/eliminating H1B's is the goal of the latter argument.

It seems like the big issue with this argument as I've described it is that its subjective ("good" vs "bad"), and because its based on perspective rather than hard statistics. You talk about what you've observed and I talk about what I've observed. When I try to Google the statistics to see how bad H1B abuse is, there's stuff all over the place.

As a young person, H1B's scare me because they tend to hit the young, easily replaced workers first. I don't want to have the potential abuse of that system hanging over my head when I'm most vulnerable. As someone who's been in the field for a long time, I suspect you used to feel the same way too to some extent.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter to your "there's plenty of lazy people who refuse to accept training" argument as I have had the misfortune of working with very lazy people in school, and I'd imagine the business world has similar problems. I haven't worked in a real business environment yet though.

Thanks for your patience in answering my comments. I'm trying to have an open mind here and its interesting stuff to ponder.
One more question for you then: what would be your ideal solution to H1B reform that would alleviate my concerns as well as yours?

Iristheangel

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

Thanks for your patience in answering my comments. I'm trying to have an open mind here and its interesting stuff to ponder.
One more question for you then: what would be your ideal solution to H1B reform that would alleviate my concerns as well as yours?

That's a tough question to answer because there's a number of things to fix. Some of the easier things would be:
- When directly importing from overseas, impose a minimum salary that's higher than market value based on the job location that they are being requested. Say 5-10% higher than the salary average for the same job title, experience, etc in the locale that's being requested. The reason I specify locale is because paying $130K in Los Gatos or Washington DC might still be underpaying while it'll be next to impossible to pay that amount in some random remote area of the US.
- Changing the law that H1Bs cannot be utilized for entry-level positions with the exception of those who went to college here and are trying to directly transfer to H1B status after being educated by us. In that situation, I wouldn't want to see brain drain from folks who we educated
- Remove any tax incentives for companies to utilize H1Bs
- Remove the lottery system
- Instead of paying lip service and no enforcement of existing violation laws, actually fund a force that will investigate H1B frauds
- This one will probably piss the most people off but I think the majority of H1Bs will not report violations because they do have the threat of deportation over their head. I think that threats needs to be removed. There should be a way for the H1Bs to report clear violations and if there is a clear violation, they should be allowed X amount of months to find a new job or sponsorship to remain in the company. These rules should be clearly posted in the breakroom at the place of employment just like other legally mandated disclosures.


That's just a few off the top of my head. I think that would level the playing field a bit, encourage those being abused to step forward, and, hopefully, stop brain drain from folks we're also educating within our schools. Again, that's just off the top of my head.

Deus Ex Machina

Iristheangel wrote: »

That's a tough question to answer because there's a number of things to fix. Some of the easier things would be:
- When directly importing from overseas, impose a minimum salary that's higher than market value based on the job location that they are being requested. Say 5-10% higher than the salary average for the same job title, experience, etc in the locale that's being requested. The reason I specify locale is because paying $130K in Los Gatos or Washington DC might still be underpaying while it'll be next to impossible to pay that amount in some random remote area of the US.
- Changing the law that H1Bs cannot be utilized for entry-level positions with the exception of those who went to college here and are trying to directly transfer to H1B status after being educated by us. In that situation, I wouldn't want to see brain drain from folks who we educated
- Remove any tax incentives for companies to utilize H1Bs
- Remove the lottery system
- Instead of paying lip service and no enforcement of existing violation laws, actually fund a force that will investigate H1B frauds
- This one will probably piss the most people off but I think the majority of H1Bs will not report violations because they do have the threat of deportation over their head. I think that threats needs to be removed. There should be a way for the H1Bs to report clear violations and if there is a clear violation, they should be allowed X amount of months to find a new job or sponsorship to remain in the company. These rules should be clearly posted in the breakroom at the place of employment just like other legally mandated disclosures.


That's just a few off the top of my head. I think that would level the playing field a bit, encourage those being abused to step forward, and, hopefully, stop brain drain from folks we're also educating within our schools. Again, that's just off the top of my head.

Sounds pretty robust. A lot of people forget about the location bit.

paul78

Iristheangel wrote: »

That's a tough question to answer because...

As you noted - it's a tough one to answer and there probably isn't going to be a single answer that will satisfy everyone.

I wanted to share my own point of view regarding the requirement some have floated about having to compensate at a higher rate. I've never been a fan of this idea for specialty occupation visa's like H-1B because in a global economy this could make US companies less competitive. It's essentially a tax on talent. The scenarios that I imagine include:

1. Currently, if I am in a multinational and I have an employee overseas and I want to temporarily bring that individual to the US, I could simply use an L1 visa. This places a disproportionate disadvantage on smaller tech companies who may need talent which is already difficult to source.
2. As a smaller tech business, if I have someone that is already working overseas for me, this "tax" really gives me no incentive to bring that person to the US. Economically, I would think that it would make more sense for this person to be in the US where they would be living and spending instead.
3. And if I cannot bring someone into the US that I really need - I will just hire that individual and have them be a remote worker regardless of whether they are in the US or not.

I will admit that I have done #3 several times.

Frankly - I don't know what the right balance would be - I am aware that there are abuses where arguably non-specialty jobs such as tech support have been replaced by temporary H1B workers. And that just uses up the quota's where actual specialty roles lose out like data scientists and principal level software engineers and architects. Perhaps a more narrow definition of what specialty occupations qualify. Regardless in a free-market business world, labour arbitrage will always be a reality. It just doesn't make sense not to consider it.

I do however agree and I would like to see a better path for those with F1/OPT to obtain a temporary work visa. Perhaps a different class of H visas or even an extension of F1 work authorization would be helpful.

I can understand why a lot of people have taken this thread and pointed to some of less savory practices of a few companies using visa's. The point of specialist visa's are so that companies can compete for talent with companies outside the US.

@deus - I found your comment about H1B visa's as "scary because they hit young people first" to be very eye-opening. I've always held the same general believe that it was older and more highly compensated individuals that would normally be impacted.

hurricane1091

I cannot buy the notion that companies cannot find someone already in the country to do the job. Pay the right wage and you'll find the right person. What I would say is that it's actually not the senior level that is hard to find, it's the mid level. It's tricky to pay the right wage and get the right person with the right experience. If you do find that person, they will eventually become senior and leave if you do not promote them. That's my view on things anyway.

MontagueVandervort

dhay13 wrote: »

Geez. All I get is technical questions at my interviews. I can only think of 1 out of about 15 that didn't ask a ton of technical questions.

I wish I could be interviewed and hired based on my knowledge instead of other superficial qualities. You're luckier than you realize.

Iristheangel wrote: »

My earlier jobs didn't have a lot of technical questions but the second I started interviewing for jobs with "engineer" in the title, the technical interviews started coming. You mentioned you were entry level but that can mean that you just haven't been in the field for long. If you don't mind me asking, what roles were you applying for?

No, I don't mind at all. It's been a while, so for some I don't have the exact job title, but I do have the roles.

• I guess this was supposed to be Desktop Support initially? I ended up doing everything from Desktop/Technical Support to Repairing Machines to Customer Service to databasing (?) private citizen's personal information including SS#s and DL#s.
• I think this was supposed to be a Desktop Support/Customer Service type of position but ended up mostly installing and configuring networks and doing a lot of Hardware installs, rips, and builds.
• This one was Mainframe Support. The job ad actually said "Desktop Support" but when I went for the interview I found out it was actually about troubleshooting/repairing a mainframe when it wasn't working.
• This one I didn't save the exact job title for some reason, but the job ad began like this, "This role is an individual contributor responsible for on-site installation, maintenance and repair of XXX and multi-vendor systems and components, including hardware, networking products, software and operating systems." XXX being the company name. So I guess this was Technical Support?
• This one was a "Technical Consultant". "Performs in-house servicing and repair of company's wireless network. Diagnoses mechanical, hardware, software, and systems failures, using established procedures."

So I don't know. It might be because it's just all entry-level positions, but I do hope it gets better as you get to higher-level roles.

MontagueVandervort

sj4088 wrote: »

Same here but then again I'm not entry level. For tier 3 and tier 4 engineering positions there will be LOTS of technical questions based around your experience.

That's comforting!