does it make you mad when people with no college education..

nice343

make more than you do in the same department?

one of my co-workers almost make 90K and has no college degree. He does have CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP and recently passed his CCIE written. Hes been in the industry for 11 years.


But that does not take way the fact than he has no college degree I feel people with college degrees should be paid more than people with Cisco certifications

BeaverC32

If he is capable of performing well at his job, I see no reason why NOT having the degree should hold him back. More power to him for being able to do it without a degree.

It looks to me like you are placing too much value on the "paper", and not enough on experience and expertise.

seuss_ssues

I think college degrees are over rated.

More power to him. Sounds like he has alot of experience and knows his stuff.

It really all boils down to how well he can do his job.

seuss_ssues

Interesting.....

we posted at nearly the exact same time and said "more power to him"

Darthn3ss

Wow. He's got 11 years of experience, sounds like he's deserved what ever he makes, even if its more than someone with a college degree. Sounds like someone is a bit jealous? Do you really know that he has no college education? What if he's working on a degree now, or if he took some classes at a college but never finished?

If i was making 90k with no degree and a few certs (with the experience), i'd be extremely upset if my boss hired someone who recently graduated college and he got paid more with no experience and a degree in Art management or something.

It almost sounds like you think people who have college degrees are better than people who don't.


edit: btw, thou shall not covet, innit?

Darthn3ss

lol, we all posted at basically the same time

ajs1976

nice343 wrote:

make more than you do in the same department?

one of my co-workers almost make 90K and has no college degree. He does have CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP and recently passed his CCIE written. Hes been in the industry for 11 years.


But that does not take way the fact than he has no college degree I feel people with college degrees should be paid more than people with Cisco certifications

A lot of cisco professional certs and the CCIE written. Wait until he passes the CCIE lab and gets another raise. I think you will be even more jealous then.

RTmarc

seuss_ssues wrote:

I think college degrees are over rated.

More power to him. Sounds like he has alot of experience and knows his stuff.

It really all boils down to how well he can do his job.

Totally agree. His CCIE > any college degree.

BeaverC32

I think college degrees are overrated as well, and I have one

RTmarc

BeaverC32 wrote:

I think college degrees are overrated as well, and I have one

Yup.

Darthn3ss

on top of whats been said, a lot of people go to college for parties. I'm willing to bet that one of the considerations for college applications coming from high school is where they rate for partying.

Webmaster

I wasn't happy with the opposite - when I had about 4-5 years experience and more certs than many of my colleagues who earned a couple of hundred bucks extra merely because they had a college degree that a. wasn't even relevant and b. they hardly remembered anything of. During those same years I gathered lots of experience for which my employer charged a higher hourly rate to customers and hence in the real world was worth a lot more.

College is traditional education, something you do before becoming a professional. They represent a foundation of a certain level. Cisco certs stand for professional skills and knowledge that is highly in demand, and considering the nr of certs he has your comment about people with college degrees should be paid more than people with Cisco certifications is way way off. They fill entire semesters with just the CCNA and it's even part of some master degrees.

Try your post at a site dedicated to college degrees

We have plenty of discussion in the past about what's more valuable, certs, degree, or experience, and the conclusion in most cases is that you need at least 2 out of 3, with experience being the most valuable. I'm not saying a Cisco cert will get you a job more easily than a degree - that depends on many factors - but there's a reason why so many people with a college degree start with certifications as soon as they are finished. Or get hired by a company who puts them through several months of training to get the certs first.

dtlokee

BeaverC32 wrote:

I think college degrees are overrated as well, and I have one

I'm with you. I paid over 100k for a college degree and it's basically done nothing for me. College degrees are far too generic in many industries and it simply becomes a matter of having one or not. Professional certifications apply to a more specific job role and can provide more value to a company.

I still believe you will get the most money from the triad, college degree, certifications and experience.

nice343

If I knew I could make over about 50K with 4 years of experience and a CCNA, I would have gotten a CCNA instead of going to school for 4 years, Get a job and gain some experience and probabily go to school part-time. I would saved a lot of money.

keenon

degrees and certs are no different only difference is that a degree doesn't expire but it can become outdated. never the less i currently out perform $ friends with degrees..

the only plus to having one would be that you can move into management easier but management skills can be taught/learned but the character to be a great manager can't

ps: if you have a degree and make less than those with a cert you should get a cert

nice343

keenon wrote:

degrees and certs are no different only difference is that a degree doesn't expire but it can become outdated. never the less i currently out perform $ friends with degrees..

the only plus to having one would be that you can move into management easier but management skills can be taught/learned but the character to be a great manager can't

ps: if you have a degree and make less than those with a cert you should get a cert

some people have family and cannot afford to stack up 100 certs.

keenon

most certs run under $500 that includes books, exam and some gear if needed... and it doesn't come out in 1 round

50 for a book
125 for the test if not a voucher special running
ect.

there are no excuses just trade getting a new pair of shoes, skip eating out and a few small dollar items and you'll have the money now invest the time

seuss_ssues

Well the $30,000+ i spent for my diploma could pay for training materials, lab equipment, and certification costs for more than a few certifications.

Even if your degree cost less, it would still be more than enough to get plenty of certifications.

BeaverC32

dtlokee wrote:

I'm with you. I paid over 100k for a college degree and it's basically done nothing for me.

100k for a degree? Where did you go???? I thought I had it bad paying off my 20k for my degree...

FuelInjected

BeaverC32 wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

I'm with you. I paid over 100k for a college degree and it's basically done nothing for me.

100k for a degree? Where did you go???? I thought I had it bad paying off my 20k for my degree...

100K sounds about right. I had to fork over close to 90K for my degree (that I should be finishing up next year). Luckily I got a scholarship which covered a huge portion of it, and family covered the rest, so I'm free of school loans (unlike most of my friends). I've got two certs now, and hope to get two more (Security+, CCNA) before I graduate.

snadam

nice343 wrote:

some people have family and cannot afford to stack up 100 certs.

im not trying to be an ass here, but EVERYONE has responsibilities including family, school, work, etc. A lot of people on this board have a family already. And you dont need 100 certs to get paid well. Certs and materials in general cost a fraction of what an equivalent college degree would. Not sure what direction you were going with that comment...

blargoe

Hes been in the industry for 11 years

This has a lot to do with it.

College degree is only a part of the equation. A degree puts you in a better position to land a job (or promotion in some cases), but in no way should it mean you automatically make more money than someone else who doesn't have your degree. I'd rather be in the trenches with someone with 11 years experience and advanced first-hand knowledge of complicated network designs than with a short timer with an over priced college diploma.

Don't get mad at the company because they don't value your degree as much as you do. It likely helped you land the job, but once you're on the job it's all about experience and performance.

bighornsheep

certs but no degree, or degree but no certs...or maybe you have both but no experience...

Anyway you cut it, you always have to improve yourself in areas that need upgrading, otherwise you're going to be dropped like high school French.

Netstudent

I'm paying 70K for my degree, but that includes a major and a minor(BS & AS). And what Keenon said about sacrifice to get ahead is so spot on! IF you want it bad enough you will do what you have to do. There are a lot of people here who gets certs and have families and full-time jobs and school. In this industry it isn't about who you know or what degree you have or even if you graduated with 4.0 and valedictorian. It's about what you know and how well you can apply what you know. But I understand how it feels to put in all the work and money for a degree just to see that someone else got farther without it. A degree just gets you the interview, the certs and skills is what gets you the high paying job. Good things happen to those who work hard, so just keep workin hard and your time will come. Thats my philosophy on that subject.

blargoe

keenon wrote:

degrees and certs are no different only difference is that a degree doesn't expire but it can become outdated. never the less i currently out perform $ friends with degrees..

the only plus to having one would be that you can move into management easier but management skills can be taught/learned but the character to be a great manager can't

I'm not sure that I agree with this entirely. Degree will get you in the door for many entry level jobs, and some companies (like the one I work for) require some kind of degree for the Sr. level admin/engineer positions and they will not budge. Recruiters sometime filter through the resume sites based on whether they have 2 yr./4 yr. degrees as a way to weed out candidates. Sure you CAN get a job without a degree, but having one makes it easier. I wouldn't ever pay what some people here have paid though, it isn't worth THAT much. I went to an in-state university and commuted and it didn't cost more then $13K or so (and all of that I was fortunate enough to have covered by a scholarship)

Personally, knowing what I know now (and if I didn't get the schollys), I would have opted for a 2 year degree and started working on experience and certs immediately.

FuelInjected

blargoe wrote:

Hes been in the industry for 11 years

I'd rather be in the trenches with someone with 11 years experience and advanced first-hand knowledge of complicated network designs than with a short timer with an over priced college diploma.

I'm a college student and even I agree with that statement! I got (will get) the degree and the certs, but I know experience is what will get me the high paying jobs. Alas, I'm only 21, so I've got time (I hope).

ajs1976

nice343 wrote:

some people have family and cannot afford to stack up 100 certs.

By 'afford' are you referring to money or time?

Certifications are a lot cheaper then a degree.

If your company does not see the value in certifications, then you may end up studying for them on your own time which can be hard. I will stay up after everyone else goes to bed or get up a 5am to study. I am going back to school to complete a BS and will be doing the same things for those classes.

drainey

What makes me mad is the idea that one kind of "paper" is worth more than another. Some employers require a degree, some certs, some neither. I started school, quit, went back (10 years and a family later), switched to a MCSE training course and studied my butt off to earn my certs. Then I went out and got a job, worked hard, got a better job, worked hard at that job, kept on learning and gaining experience and now I have another great job. Make about $45K a year and good bennies to boot. I don't have a degree but does that make the effort I've put into getting where I'm at worth less than the effort you (or anyone else) put into getting a degree and getting to where you're at?

Your co-worker must have worked just as hard to get his Cisco certs and experience (not to mention knowledge and skill) so maybe the pay he receives is compensation for his hard work, dedication, skill and experience, not just because he has Cisco certs.

elover_jm

Ok guys, although i'm with most of you on the comments..........

but please don't get carried away in thinking having a degree is not important, The fact is many if not all employer still requires one.

Having Cisco cert like some other certs because of it's difficulty and high Demand will work wonders for you (Which is why he is able to work tht much). I'm sure if there were many certified professional in the market like him he wouldn't be making tht 90K or so without a degree.

just my 2 cent

sthomas

elover_jm wrote:

but please don't get carried away in thinking having a degree is not important, The fact is many if not all employer still requires one

I agree that a degree is a good thing to have and in some situations is important but not always necessary. Many employers do require a degree but definitely not all of them. Experience is still king in IT and probably always will be.

Plantwiz

nice343 wrote:

make more than you do in the same department?

one of my co-workers almost make 90K and has no college degree. He does have CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP and recently passed his CCIE written. Hes been in the industry for 11 years.


But that does not take way the fact than he has no college degree I feel people with college degrees should be paid more than people with Cisco certifications

Nope.

Having a college degree doesn't render one a better worker/employee/troubleshooter. It may have given the individual an opportunity they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Pay/salary is earned...not a right. The only arguement one might have is between men vs. women with the same credentials or race between two with the same credentials.

The unfortunate thing is...it's not a secret women settle for less pay at the inital negotiation (not all, but as a whole). A job is an agreement for one party to work...the other party to provide compensation for the work. If you don't like it....find something else.

But it's completely fair someone who has proven themselve in their field gets paid a handsome salary for their skills.

FWIW