does it make you mad when people with no college education..

royal

My degree got me in the door. Now I have to build my credibility and knowledge through lots of hard work, study, obtaining certifications, gaining experience, and proving myself. With my piece of paper, I started at $40,000. After obtaining my MCSE and proving I am a hard worker, I got bumped right up to $60,000.

So the point to my story? The degree in relation to IT is juts a piece of paper that doesn't really give you much leeway in the industry other than getting your foot in the door. The degree won't help you much salary wise until you build up your credibility, certifications, experience, and show you have talent that provides the employer what they need to have you make them revenue and help build/maintain the company.

keenon

lets face it theres no need in being a hater. get your game up

anyone that is not in agreement should read my signature.. once, twice, three, three is the number

jojopramos

For me, If you have a degree, then work your way to certification while gaining experience is the best that you can get. imagine having all the three qualification plus hard work and dedication, later on you can get much more salary than the 90K. But on the other hand, I salute the guy who has no degree but have an almost complete Cisco cert, that's a lot of hardwork and dedication.

seuss_ssues

Is it just me?

I got my BS in Computer information Technology. With my degree alone there is no way that I could perform my daily work functions. I would be completely clueless on many of the issues i face. My useable skills have come because, this is what i do. This is what ive done in my free time and this is what i study/read about. If i had never setup routers, linux, 2003, etc in my free time and played with setting up many of the business necessary technologies then doing my daily functions would be beyond me.

That being said an IT BS degree was a requirement for my job. Im glad that i stuck it out and got my degree. Did it prepare me for the work force? No.

manny355

I agree with most of the posts here. Having a degree will not entitle you to more money just based on the fact that you have a degree. I have a BS in computer systems as well and that is probably what got me through the door on my current position but I also had a couple of certs to sweeten the deal. Basically, as an IT professional you should want to use all available tools to make you a better technician. If you only have certs, you might want to think about getting a degree...if you only have a degree, you might want to think about getting a couple of certs. Although it's possible to get that high paying job with either or....why take that chance. Get both and you only increase the possibility and your options.

Just my two cents.

royal

seuss_ssues wrote:

Is it just me?

I got my BS in Computer information Technology. With my degree alone there is no way that I could perform my daily work functions. I would be completely clueless on many of the issues i face. My useable skills have come because, this is what i do. This is what ive done in my free time and this is what i study/read about. If i had never setup routers, linux, 2003, etc in my free time and played with setting up many of the business necessary technologies then doing my daily functions would be beyond me.

That being said an IT BS degree was a requirement for my job. Im glad that i stuck it out and got my degree. Did it prepare me for the work force? No.

Not just you. My degree didn't prepare me much for what I do on a daily task. My degree focused on mostly Cisco and not Microsoft. Now I do all Microsoft stuff which is what I always wanted to do anyways. Most of the stuff I know is all self taught which is what prepared me for my job.

garv221

Regardless of what anyone says, a degree should never be knocked and is absolutely worth the time and effort. People with college degrees have a 1up on those who don't have a degree. College grads will earn the experience as time goes on, they will pass those same certifications as everyone else and now will have all three, a degree, certs & experience. Typically college grads are considered for management positions as companies want someone with more than a highschool diploma running a department. Its a common well known fact that college graduates earn more money than those who do not have a degree. Just don't hate on a degree because you don't have one.

royal

Yep, agreed with Garv. There are so many opportunities that require a degree. Without that degree, you could be passed up. I always advise everyone to do their degree first, then worry about obtaining certifications. Getting that degree will help you get the job to get that experience to help you obtain those certifications.

RATTLERMAN

I couldnt wait to respond to this one.

I agree with the majority of the posts that I have read. In my humble opinion you have to have a combination of degree, certs and most importantly experience to survive it 'IT". With that being said in the end its all about performance. i work in anenvironment where there is no respect for degrees because the supervisor and other staff dont have a degree. The arguments that they make against degrees would make you laugh. I have a degree in economics and finance and I sort of fell into "IT" by chance. I use the certs to build up my knowledgebase but I have enough sense to know that I have to prove myself everyday. In the long run there are many paths to a destinaiton its up to you to choose which one you want to take.

Just my $.02

AGILE.. MOBILE.. HOSTILE

garv221

RATTLERMAN wrote:

I have a degree in economics and finance and I sort of fell into "IT" by chance.

I really wish I would have not choose IT as a major but a minor while I was in college and put more emphasis in business for that simple reason "anyone can fall into IT" with or without a degree. How many people from IT without a degree can fall into another career? For instance finance? There is no fall back without a degree.

keenon

as i learned a long time ago .. you don't "fall in" your either pushed or choose to

i'm not hating on a degree but college wasn't for me and there are alot of people that college is not for.

TechJunky

I would say a degree is useful with getting an interview because most big companies list it as a requirement. However, having a degree/certification etc makes no difference on pay.

Paper in my eye = you have the capability to learn.

How you perform at your job depends on your salary.

doom969

TechJunky wrote:

I

How you perform at your job depends on your salary.

I'd rather say that your salary depends on how you perform,

Doom969

binarysoul

Oh boyyyyy, I have to say what I believe!

As a general rule, people with degrees have more problem-solving, organizational, communication and analytical skills than someone with just vendor certifications. Period. On the other hand, getting certifications too require analytical and problem-solving competencies. Each has its own value, but it's upto the individual [and the employer] to decide which one would benefit them.

Degrees are more about dreams while certifcations are all about how to land a job. I've yet to see any kid saying "Oh you know when I grow up, I wanna be an A+ certified."

But all my life, I've heard kids saying, "when I grow up, I wanna be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, astronout, scientist, socialigist...."

Bottom line, you decide what you wanna dream !

ilcram19

make more than you do in the same department?

one of my co-workers almost make 90K and has no college degree. He does have CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP and recently passed his CCIE written. Hes been in the industry for 11 years.


But that does not take way the fact than he has no college degree I feel people with college degrees should be paid more than people with Cisco certifications

Oh boyyyyy, I have to say what I believe!

As a general rule, people with degrees have more problem-solving, organizational, communication and analytical skills than someone with just vendor certifications. Period. On the other hand, getting certifications too require analytical and problem-solving competencies. Each has its own value, but it's upto the individual [and the employer] to decide which one would benefit them.

Degrees are more about dreams while certifcations are all about how to land a job. I've yet to see any kid saying "Oh you know when I grow up, I wanna be an A+ certified."

But all my life, I've heard kids saying, "when I grow up, I wanna be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, astronout, scientist, socialigist...."

Bottom line, you decide what you wanna dream

that right there my friends is someone that are uncapable of passing a certification testor has the dedication to do it.
math, science, biology, english, speech.. come on!!! tell me those classes aren't hard all you got to do is sit there at the class room and listen to the teacher's crap; do you really use it? of course not.

we all do that sitting around at class but the real challenge come when we are sitting home studing for a CCNA or CCNP, OR MCSA, the people that said that the just go to school and get the degree. we are not lazy like that we go to school plus we still have to come and do labs for the next certification test and read a 600 page book...now tell me who's worth more someone that dedicate their life to this or someone the just go to school and go home and talk mess about people that really want to be good and not just hold a paper (degree) and complain why does a CCNP get more money than I do?
answear: beacuse he is better than you he dedicated himself to what he like and to what he is not what he wants to be .

ilcram19

oh by the was i have a degree to and when i got it i didnt know half of the english that i know now....so i hope you get the point that anybody can get a degree.

but for certs i have tooke 12 test and fail 3 for my degree i have like 106 credit hours with a GPA of 3.8 and i didnt fail any class.

get it school is easy certification arent

BeaverC32

ilcram19 wrote:

get it school is easy certification arent

I think you're applying your own personal experiences too much, and I think you should avoid using those experiences as a catch-all statement that applies to everyone. I personally found college to be challenging. I study for certifications at my leisure, and while I usually study consistently, if I want to take a weekend off to relax, I have that luxury. School, on the other hand, has deadlines/assignments you have to meet, essays you have to write, etc.

As for "not using" math, science, biology, etc , I feel you are DEAD WRONG. Most of these do not find a direct application into our everyday life, but hear me out. Why do we still study these topics in all education systems across the world? The fact is that to be good in any field you need full and complete knowledge. Technical books even start with history of the technology - it gives perspective and helps develop vision and insight.

I use math while I program, english when I present to management and communicate with peers, etc. To say these skills are useless is baffling to me!

Sorry about the rant...

binarysoul

BeaverC32 wrote:

As for "not using" math, science, biology, etc , I feel you are DEAD WRONG. Most of these do not find a direct application into our everyday life, but hear me out. Why do we still study these topics in all education systems across the world? The fact is that to be good in any field you need full and complete knowledge. Technical books even start with history of the technology - it gives perspective and helps develop vision and insight.

I use math while I program, english when I present to management and communicate with peers, etc. To say these skills are useless is baffling to me!

You're absolutely right BeaverC32

Degrees are meant to make people 'broad-minded' in a sense that they examine every discipline (course). I'm certainly not putting down certifcations as I'm studying to get a few, but even if I get all IT certifcations, I will still firmly believe that nothing can replace a degree.

Unless you have a degree, you don't know how hard it can be to get one. But although I have no certification, I don't devalue it.

Aquabat [banned]

that is retarded......why do you feel that way? All of those certs are 999999999999999 times mroe difficult to achieve than a college degree. I have met alot of idiots with college degrees, i have never met a cisco certified individual who is an idiot.

sollege degrees do not mean anything. my co-worker has been in the industry over 21 years, is is a telecom EXPERT. he is a genius, he has no college degree, and he makes mroe then me. that doesn't make me mad.

people think that having a college degree means that your awsoem but it doesn't. i live in a college town so mabye i see this kind of this on a daily basis. this man you speak of deserves every bit of that 90k he makes

blargoe

binarysoul wrote:

Oh boyyyyy, I have to say what I believe!

As a general rule, people with degrees have more problem-solving, organizational, communication and analytical skills than someone with just vendor certifications. Period.

I agree with this, and I think it sums it all up nicely.

A degree is an avenue that can help you develop these critical skills. However, the skills themselves are what are valued in the marketplace (and even more so after being fine tuned with years of experience), not the degree.

On the other hand, getting certifications too require analytical and problem-solving competencies. Each has its own value, but it's upto the individual [and the employer] to decide which one would benefit them.

I think it depends on the certification and the avenue you go about obtaining them. There isn't much problem solving skill in the A+ track, for example, but if you are working on a cert and truly explore each area of coverage of an MCSE:Security or high level Cisco cert (rather than cramming to pass an the exam to get initials next to your name) it can be a great compliment to your technical development.

blargoe

ilcram19 wrote:

we all do that sitting around at class but the real challenge come when we are sitting home studing for a CCNA or CCNP, OR MCSA, the people that said that the just go to school and get the degree. we are not lazy like that we go to school plus we still have to come and do labs for the next certification test and read a 600 page book...now tell me who's worth more someone that dedicate their life to this or someone the just go to school and go home and talk mess about people that really want to be good and not just hold a paper (degree) and complain why does a CCNP get more money than I do?

^ This sounds like the double whammy of paper (degree) AND paper (cert). Just sayin'.

CCNP doesn't mean a whole lot to an employer if you haven't ever worked on networks before.

ilcram19

CCNP doesn't mean a whole lot to an employer if you haven't ever worked on networks before.

lol what!!! are you serious i havent meet a CCNP that is unemploy or that is making below 60K yearly.
i really would like for you to compete for a job with a CCNP
firts of all school is a default, for some is neccezary for some is not.
Second we need to admint when some one is good at what they do. meaning dont be jealous. u can do 2 things stays as patethic as you are or try to be better than him.
Now if you think school is easy then you have a problem school is all about doing what they tell you to do, dont do it your fail dhaa!!.

that is retarded......why do you feel that way? All of those certs are 999999999999999 times mroe difficult to achieve than a college degree. I have met alot of idiots with college degrees, i have never met a cisco certified individual who is an idiot.

sollege degrees do not mean anything. my co-worker has been in the industry over 21 years, is is a telecom EXPERT. he is a genius, he has no college degree, and he makes mroe then me. that doesn't make me mad.

people think that having a college degree means that your awsoem but it doesn't. i live in a college town so mabye i see this kind of this on a daily basis. this man you speak of deserves every bit of that 90k he makes.

i totally agree with that
once again school is easy dont attemp to make me change my mind, if it was hard for you that was because u made it hard or if you want we can take a science test to see who made the highest score "did i mention that im majoring on biotechnology?" well you decide

sprkymrk

nice343 wrote:

does it make you mad when people with no college education..make more than you do in the same department?

Nope, I only get mad when idiots or morons or lazy bums make more than me - regardless of experience, degree or certs. I know several educated idiots with no critical thinking skills, no work ethics and no clue that have one, two or all three of the magic triad (experience, degree, certs).

Niether the number and type of framed papers someone has on his wall or the number of years one has sat one's butt in the same chair at work mean anything if you are an idiot, lazy bum or moron. Experience, degree, and certs are great, and I think it's great to have them, but a person should be paid based on his/her current performance and skill in his/her chosen profession.

GT-Rob

This thread has a lot of young kids who are going to learn some things when they are done school and get working for a bit



School is great and yes, is important. But if you think it will set you up for life, and you are done learning then, you are in the wrong field.

Someone having a degree does NOT mean they are better at ANYTHING. I am sorry, but getting your BA is not that hard. It just takes a while because they fill it with crap (summers/spring/winter vacation, electives, etc.). This guy with the CCNP/SP/IP/DP and IE candidate, with 8 years experience, is worth 10 times as much to an employer than someone who is good at writing essays. If you think otherwise, post back after 5 years of working and tell me otherwise.

blargoe

GT-Rob wrote:

This thread has a lot of young kids who are going to learn some things when they are done school and get working for a bit

Oh, yeah. They'll find out one day. Hopefully they'll stick with it and make some decent money after a few years.

blargoe

ilcram19 wrote:

CCNP doesn't mean a whole lot to an employer if you haven't ever worked on networks before.

lol what!!! are you serious i havent meet a CCNP that is unemploy or that is making below 60K yearly.

I take it that you know lots of CCNPs with no practical experience making that kind of money? Cool. I'm sure there are many on this board who would like to know where those jobs are!

i really would like for you to compete for a job with a CCNP

Sorry, I'm not a router monkey, I don't compete with CCNP's though I do have to perform some networking from time to time.

CCNP is an accomplishment to be proud of, fur sure. But CCNP isn't the golden ticket any more than a college degree or any cert except possibly CCIE.

ilcram19

Nope, I only get mad when idiots or morons or lazy bums make more than me - regardless of experience, degree or certs. I know several educated idiots with no critical thinking skills, no work ethics and no clue that have one, two or all three of the magic triad (experience, degree, certs).

Niether the number and type of framed papers someone has on his wall or the number of years one has sat one's butt in the same chair at work mean anything if you are an idiot, lazy bum or moron. Experience, degree, and certs are great, and I think it's great to have them, but a person should be paid based on his/her current performance and skill in his/her chosen profession.

yea you are right

I take it that you know lots of CCNPs with no practical experience making that kind of money? Cool. I'm sure there are many on this board who would like to know where those jobs are!

for what you arent CCNP
first of all im pretty sure you know that to become a CCNP you have to have experiance those test aren't a joke cisco certs are harder to get than any other cert outer so they just dont give it away as a microsoft or a comTIA
now is been known that a cisco certifacation are more valuable then any other cert a network administrator with a MCSA/MCSE get pay less than a network administrator with a CCNP/CCIE
do your research if you dont believe me there is more MCSEs than CCNP and CCIE together
are you calling CCNPs monkeys? i didnt get that i dont think they are going to like that...

seuss_ssues

I dont think he meant "router monkey" as a insult. Sort of like saying im not a uber cisco geek.

blargoe

Wasn't meant as an insult. I meant it like seuss said.

What is your job, what kind of company is it (in-house IT department or a solution provider for other businesses), and what do you do day to day? I'm curious, because you make some very strong assertions that sound as wrong to me as someony saying a degree should guarantee lots of money. I take it your personal experience as a Cisco engineer has been different.

I make more than the Cisco network engineers at my job, for what it's worth. "Network administrator" is such a generic job title. Depending on the company and the sector it is positioned in there are many distinct job roles that fall under administrator/engineer/architect. I'm more of a solution designer first with day to day administration duties within the realm of messaging and server and AD administration.

Saying this cert is better than that cert... yeah if you're relying on certs as your strongest selling point, maybe it makes a difference, but experience (regardless of certs) and proven IN A PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT NOT IN A LAB OR CLASSROOM experience trumps all. Every time. Same argument as with a degree.

sprkymrk

ilcram19 wrote:

first of all im pretty sure you know that to become a CCNP you have to have experiance those test aren't a joke cisco certs are harder to get than any other cert outer so they just dont give it away as a microsoft or a comTIA
now is been known that a cisco certifacation are more valuable then any other cert a network administrator with a MCSA/MCSE get pay less than a network administrator with a CCNP/CCIE
do your research if you dont believe me there is more MCSEs than CCNP and CCIE together
are you calling CCNPs monkeys? i didnt get that i dont think they are going to like that...

Let's stop the bashing contest gentlemen.

FYI - My Microsoft and CompTIA certs weren't just "given" to me, nor do I make less than all CCNP/CCIE's. My CCNA was actually easier (to me personally) than a couple of my MS exams.