Student Experiences at Western Governors University (WGU)

tahjzhuan

bmalin77 wrote: »

I am debating applying to WGU or taking a CCNA & MCTS program at a local community college. I have been going through the thread and see a lot of pros and cons. Any feedback besides a good mentor for those thinking about WGU? I work at a large IT shop, have a BA and a MBA, but looking to get more network/OS/DB experience and been poking around at WGU's programs.

Thanks!

I think that WGU is a great value but, being that you already have degrees, I would be inclined to take additional courses at the community college. Just in my 2nd week here so others further along may be better qualified to answer this.

Jasiono

bmalin77 wrote: »

I am debating applying to WGU or taking a CCNA & MCTS program at a local community college. I have been going through the thread and see a lot of pros and cons. Any feedback besides a good mentor for those thinking about WGU? I work at a large IT shop, have a BA and a MBA, but looking to get more network/OS/DB experience and been poking around at WGU's programs.

Thanks!

It all boils down to you at this point, do you want to learn by yourself or would you rather sit in a classroom and get lectured to?

JamesKurtovich

Jasiono wrote: »

would you rather sit in a classroom and get lectured to?

I wish I had the time to get lectured to by an actual person. Unfortunately, I'm 100 miles away from the nearest school and work full time. For someone in my situation, WGU is a good choice.

jeromelongj

I'm in the network admin track and wasn't really aware we all got java forced upon us. I've had some back and forth about how worthless java is and was told that "cloud computing is leading blah blah" so I hit them back with a "then give us a vmware class." Well I tried anyway.

bmalin77

Thanks for all the information. I think I may just try to go the comm college route and their cert programs.

hurricane1091

Anyone take the CCNA security class? Would love to get some help on how to access the pre and post assessment tests so I can get my voucher.


Edit: I think I figured it out

Nemowolf

So i wanted to add my two cents and throw a bit of devils advocate to the situation with some of the things recently posted about the recent changes to the programs.

My understanding from my conversation since last year concerning the announcement of the changes to the programs to now has been a long winded back and forth with my student mentor. So to start; last year around summer time they made an announcement to all current students that they were making changes to the various IT programs and that it would potentially effect every student who was not finishing their last term.
From that, they made the initial phase of changes which included changing the value of some courses CU's after looking at the average time it takes for the majority of students to complete a 4CU course vs a 6CU course and finding certain courses had a severaly lighter CU than they should have assigned to it initially. Additionally, they evaluated the relevance of some of their courses in each program to see if any could be changed, updated or replaced entirely with new certs.

The by product is that these changes have been trickling in for current students but new students are being forced into these new "phased" programs as they start and then their next term the catch up begins. Existing students can ask their student mentors to keep their existing coursework but the intention is to remove all students from removed coursework.

I for example still have DJV1 Software Fundamentals with the MTA cert as the final instead of the replacement Python and Java courses. My mentor asked me recently if it was okay to update my course listing *AGAIN* to remove this particular class with the new one and I told him not until I could review the three classes and determine which one is more inline with my career goals.

Back on topic: My understanding is that it had been a number of years, if not close to a decade, since the last major overhaul of the entire IT program had been done and long overdue IMHO. These changes are to ensure that you have industry relevant classes and in some cases streamline the educational business to ensure that your tuition monies are not wasted with irrelevant costs for horrible material and testing. That is why the school always pimps out the fact that they have YET to increase costs on their students while everyone else is increasing costs by 15-30% per year as a student at a brick and mortar.

Now do i think its fair to say that we just need to deal with the struggles and chaos, no. I have personally made a few very angry phone calls to various departments for their screw ups and been at least satisfied with getting someone else to apologize other than my student mentor, not that it fixed anything but it made me feel better. I am glad that this is my last year for many reasons but still would not hesitate a minute to go back for my masters or a second degree in business.

techfiend

For those that are close to or completed the BSIT: Security degree is my signature realistically feasible if I continue at my current pace and study for ~30 hours a week?

Bit concerned about no cisco certs to CCNA security in 5 months but I have about a month of CCENT studies from last year and think I could pass it after a a month of studying, especially if it's ucertify like I've heard it is.

Nemowolf: I understand how being bugged about replacing old courses is annoying. My classes were all switched over a month after I started but my student mentor has asked me if I wanted to replace the new courses with old ones, I might do an old MTA course to find out what a microsoft cert is like. I hear all the old courses will be unavailable after June 1, they really should have a grandfather policy.

rcsoar4fun

Anyone not passed the preassessments in 3 tries? I am 6 points over cut score in my C179. Pretty sure I could pass the preassessment with another shot and then the assessment.


I hate this class. Some of the assessment questions are just oddly phrased and the material is all over the place.

revelated

LordSevink wrote: »

I think it's pretty bad when students of an educational institution feel that the materials being provided by that institution are so inadequate for learning that they search for their own. I'm going through the book they have you read for Web Development Fundamentals and it's pretty terrible (the Lynda videos are decent and the Codecademy lessons are always nice). I find myself getting frustrated from time to time even with a background in HTML and CSS.

Obviously this doesn't pertain to all courses as the source of learning material varies between them. But I've recently heard that the Linux+ (Operating Systems I/II) material is just as bad.

AH yes, Web Development "Fundamentals". So incorrectly named, but whatever.

I actually cruised through that class only because when I was a teenager, I used to write what were quite powerful web applications, though I didn't know it at the time. This is before CSS and advanced technologies, all for WebTV. But the ability to review and troubleshoot code, which I did a lot of, helped with that class. The CSS stuff I'd learned later, but that I did have to brush up on and yes, I just went through W3Schools and brushed up. The in-course material was a joke. I ended up waiving it through another class.

Linux 101 funny story. So I take the pre-exam and I get a low score. I study the material. I take the pre-exam again, I still get a low-ish score but I'm off from passing by one question. I notice one of the questions that asked about a specific command, and I distinctly remembered it from the in-course material, so I put it exactly how their book had it, and got marked wrong. I'm like, "I KNOW I'm not going nuts!" so I pull up the book and sure enough, the question is worded exactly like the command entry. Reported it to WGU. They came back and said "well, you got it right, but it's not the answer the quiz was looking for." Same thing happened on another question where I knew the syntax to achieve what the question asked from work experience, but it wanted a different answer. Argued and got them to approve me taking the exam, all the while saying "it's hard because it's command line" "people are struggling" "people are failing it like crazy" "we really want you to get 95% or greater" etc etc etc. Passed that exam with a crazy high score, it was a joke, nowhere near as complex as the pre.

Same thing happened years ago with a Microsoft exam where it asked you how to copy a folder to a new location. Ctrl+C was marked wrong, drag and right-click drop was marked wrong, Edit menu--> Copy was marked wrong, despite all three working perfectly fine; they expected you to Right Click --> Copy, then Right Click --> Paste. Silliness.

This is the problem with "fill in the blank" type questions and why they have no business on a computer-graded test. If a human is grading it that's one thing because they can catch when your answer is right.

anoeljr wrote: »

@LordSevink

Yes, I remember when I took the Linux+ course. The 101 provided material was good, but the 102 material was way different than what the exam wanted. I was totally dumbfounded by the 102 exam because it was so different than I expected.

I found Linux 102 WAY harder than 101. In fact if I recall I passed 102 by one question and that's with heavy studying and a basic exposure to Linux by way of Unix and print systems.

The problem with 102 is that it just throws everything under the sun at you even stuff you might never encounter or use. It'd be like me testing someone in Windows and asking them "What is the purpose of HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG\Software\Fonts in the registry?" Who cares! Nobody will EVER use that hive for anything. Ask about things people USE.

Nemowolf wrote: »

My understanding from my conversation since last year concerning the announcement of the changes to the programs to now has been a long winded back and forth with my student mentor. So to start; last year around summer time they made an announcement to all current students that they were making changes to the various IT programs and that it would potentially effect every student who was not finishing their last term.
From that, they made the initial phase of changes which included changing the value of some courses CU's after looking at the average time it takes for the majority of students to complete a 4CU course vs a 6CU course and finding certain courses had a severaly lighter CU than they should have assigned to it initially. Additionally, they evaluated the relevance of some of their courses in each program to see if any could be changed, updated or replaced entirely with new certs.

Here's the problem, that's not all they did. They're changing other things that have nothing to do with any sort of added value.

• The Physics used to be two separate courses so you got credit for each. Now they're a combined course with less CU. AND, because the Physics performance portion is so darn involved, and the objective portion has poor information, it's a sheer time waster. It'll take you the same 12 weeks to do a course they expect done in 6 if you're a full-time worker. There was no value to this change whatsoever.
• Removing College Algebra and then having the STUDENT tell you that something's off is simply unacceptable. Worse, there's a dependency with that class to Physics. OK, so why not just combine the College Algebra with the Physics objective, and leave the Physics performance as a separate?
• My course mentor refused - REFUSED - to allow me to take DJV1 this term because of the complaints of other students and forthcoming changes. Why? That other students are struggling does not indicate that I will, proven by the Linux 101 course. In fact, I reviewed the MTA requirements on Microsoft's site, and that exam should be little more than a breeze given I have both the previous MCSA and the newer one, and have passed every Microsoft exam put in front of me.

Nemowolf wrote: »

Back on topic: My understanding is that it had been a number of years, if not close to a decade, since the last major overhaul of the entire IT program had been done and long overdue IMHO. These changes are to ensure that you have industry relevant classes and in some cases streamline the educational business to ensure that your tuition monies are not wasted with irrelevant costs for horrible material and testing. That is why the school always pimps out the fact that they have YET to increase costs on their students while everyone else is increasing costs by 15-30% per year as a student at a brick and mortar.

Industry relevant classes, eh?

Don't see how "Geography" has anything to do with working an IT job.

If WGU wanted to do what you're suggesting, they would do away with Performance-type course separation altogether. Just have the objective, take an exam, that's it. Some courses are Performance by nature - English Comp, or Capstone, or Technical Writing, for example - but I see zero value in having a Physics Performance, a Leadership Performance (since it doesn't really prove you're a good leader), a Communication Performance (since it's subjective), etc.

rcsoar4fun

revelated wrote: »

Industry relevant classes, eh?

Don't see how "Geography" has anything to do with working an IT job.

How else are you supposed to know where the tech support line guy is from?

I suspect a lot of the classes are there because they are required for accreditation.

It is still better than a B&M institution. I looked at a network program at one of the local colleges. They expected me to sit through a 9 week class on networking. I had my CCNP and probably tons more experience than the instructor. It is just a waste.

revelated

rcsoar4fun wrote: »

How else are you supposed to know where the tech support line guy is from? I suspect a lot of the classes are there because they are required for accreditation. It is still better than a B&M institution. I looked at a network program at one of the local colleges. They expected me to sit through a 9 week class on networking. I had my CCNP and probably tons more experience than the instructor. It is just a waste.

That's fair, however in most B&M's they let you choose the GE courses. WGU does not. In fact a local school that was going to set up a model similar to WGU interviewed me about my experiences and she actually laughed when I told her that GE courses can't be chosen from a list. I'd frankly rather take a Chemistry course (given I nearly aced that in high school and it has at least partial applications in hardware IT) than Geography or Biology course that has nothing to do with it. I like classes where I'm overqualified.

I took an Auditor class where I was answering questions the other students couldn't even fathom, because I was already an auditor. It was fun.

EDIT: Side note. I just took my first Examity exam...what a cluster. 20 minutes just to get to where you can take the exam. The bulk of that time is:

• Issues installing GoToMeeting (this isn't Examity's fault, but they don't let you pre-install this software so it's ready to go beforehand, you have to wait until the start time for the exam, unlike Kryterion where you can install the software whenever you want)
• silly positioning of the camera (a total non-issue with Kryterion)
• pan around the room (why? If I move my head away from the screen question me about it. If you hear background talking question me on it)
• pan around the desk (why? If I move my head question me)
• questioning my other monitor (why? It's off, you can see it in the camera view that's it off, if it turns on question me)
• questioning my cell phone 10 feet away and not even in camera view (why? It's off, it's out of view, if I move my head question me)
• questioning why the webcam isn't showing the monitor (it's a laptop, I can't show the front of my face AND the monitor at the same time as in the instructions, it's impossible)
• questioning the desk phone that's 10 feet away and not even in camera view (why? Its ringer is off, if I move my head question me)
• A list of "agreements" you have to say "YES" to, which are verbal repeats of the physical exercises above (i.e. "my phone is off", "my monitor is off"). Why am I verbally repeating what you already saw is true?
• The exam proctor is based in India with a VERY heavy accent.
• You give them keyboard and mouse only to have them tell you to:
  • click into a box for them. Why? Why don't you do it? YOU HAVE CONTROL!!
  • open Task Manager. Why? YOU. HAVE. CONTROL!
  • click a Submit button for them after they enter the access code. Why?
    • If they enter the code wrong (And they type it VERY SLOWLY), they tell you to delete it for them. WHY!?

Just an all around POOR experience, compared to what Kryterion was. Doesn't even have biometrics, you have to show your ID to the camera for 10 seconds while s/he reads it. Even at a physical test center it's not anywhere near this bad. I fully intend to ask if there's any way I can use Kryterion, otherwise I'm going to have to just eat the 10 mile trip to a test center. EDIT: and the answer is yes, so long as I call them after scheduling, and until they've completed discontinuing it.

techfiend

Examity has it's disadvantages which you pointed out but it also has a few advantages like you can take the test at the next 30 minute interval instead of 3 days for kryterion, test center is 5 last I checked. The biometrics in kryterion was a pita, it often took a good 5-10m of typing my name over and over again, I must have really inconsistent typing or their system is too sensitive. Kryterion also doesn't support multiple cameras while examity does, in my case it's an internal tv capture card that windows sees as a camera. In order to solve this with kryterion it needs to be disabled then reboot, an inconvenience that's probably uncommon. I'll take the panning the room and really slow and long code entry in examity over the bigger issues imo in kryterion. I've only done one test with each and examity had me going in a few minutes, kryterion was a 30m+ process and missed the first time, reschedule took another 25-30m.

rcsoar4fun

Last week I did my first time with Examity. I found out at 6:50 that my mentor had approved it. 3 minutes later I had an appointment for 7:30.

I had an issue with my ID, it was pretty quickly taken care of.

I had to do a 360 with the camera. I test in my mancave and it is a mess. He couldn't have seen anything hidden if he wanted to.

Every damn time I take a test with Kryterion it boots me out at least once. Or doesn't launch. Or just freezes. The scheduling sucked.

I'm happy with Examity.

JamesKurtovich

I'm not even going to bother with the webcam headache. My local library is more than willing to accommodate me and make sure I have a quiet place to sit the exams.

I had a co-worker telling me that WGU is "behind the times" because the finals are proctored. What?

rcsoar4fun

LordSevink wrote: »

I had a co-worker telling me that WGU is "behind the times" because the finals are proctored. What?

There is at least one B&M that has declared test anxiety a disability and will allow students to be graded solely on classwork, no tests required.

Many place will now allow you to take your test in an isolated room and given extra time for the same reasons.

So nothing would surprise me anymore.

revelated

So I want to reply here.

techfiend wrote: »

Examity has it's disadvantages which you pointed out but it also has a few advantages like you can take the test at the next 30 minute interval instead of 3 days for kryterion, test center is 5 last I checked.

I don't schedule exams immediately. Too busy working. I'd rather book it out a few days which gives me ample time to prepare my workspace, notes, and go back over the material. To date there's only one exam I ever didn't pass, and it was a joke: TJC1 - which was the one where the exam didn't match the course material at all, and I complained, and they corrected it, and then I breezed it the second time.

techfiend wrote: »

The biometrics in kryterion was a pita, it often took a good 5-10m of typing my name over and over again, I must have really inconsistent typing or their system is too sensitive.

100% inconsistent typing. I've had friends comment that I'm like a computer because I don't fluctuate. Typing my name happens at the same speed, same rate, same everything, so long as I'm using a computer I'm comfortable with (my own laptop where I bought it largely due to the keyboard).

Side note: keyboards with too-deep travel on the keys can throw off Kryterion. That's because those keyboards aren't good for typing.

I think I had issues with facial recognition once, but that's because I was in a dimly lit hotel room and not my daylight-bathed office at home.

techfiend wrote: »

Kryterion also doesn't support multiple cameras while examity does, in my case it's an internal tv capture card that windows sees as a camera. In order to solve this with kryterion it needs to be disabled then reboot, an inconvenience that's probably uncommon.

I'm not clear on this. My laptop has a built-in webcam, when I launch Kryterion I get the Java popup asking for permission to my webcam. I do not allow it to remember this setting. I hit the drop down and select the USB camera since it defaults to the built-in one, then proceed. Never an issue.

If you told it to remember the permission that's likely the issue. That's Windows. It's defaulting to the built-in which makes Kryterion squawk, most likely.


I also don't want to be flashing my photo ID up to a camera to someone in India. Call that my paranoia. That's a great way to get your identity stolen.

YesOffense

How do you find your enrollment counselor? I want to confirm a May 1 start, but the one I thought I had hasn't reponded to any of my messages.

techfiend

revelated: If you have multiple cameras and the wgu camera isn't primary you could get by biometrics by selecting the correct camera but they couldn't see you when starting the test in kryterion and there was no option to change it. Good point about the ID but I think it would be pretty easy to trace back.

YesOffense: If you call the main number and go to registration they should be able to tell you who your enrollment counselor is. Enrolling was unpleasant for me but it gets better.

JamesKurtovich

YesOffense wrote: »

How do you find your enrollment counselor? I want to confirm a May 1 start, but the one I thought I had hasn't reponded to any of my messages.

WGU should have created a personalized webpage for you to help streamline enrollment. I believe that has your EC's contact information on it.

Nemowolf

revelated wrote: »

Industry relevant classes, eh?

Don't see how "Geography" has anything to do with working an IT job.

If WGU wanted to do what you're suggesting, they would do away with Performance-type course separation altogether. Just have the objective, take an exam, that's it. Some courses are Performance by nature - English Comp, or Capstone, or Technical Writing, for example - but I see zero value in having a Physics Performance, a Leadership Performance (since it doesn't really prove you're a good leader), a Communication Performance (since it's subjective), etc.

rcsoar4fun wrote: »

How else are you supposed to know where the tech support line guy is from?

I suspect a lot of the classes are there because they are required for accreditation.

It is still better than a B&M institution. I looked at a network program at one of the local colleges. They expected me to sit through a 9 week class on networking. I had my CCNP and probably tons more experience than the instructor. It is just a waste.

Well your obviously bent on taking general education classes but as ALL educational institutions are there to give you not only the Depth of education but also the Breadth of education, GE courses are still required to be a fully accredited place of learning. I didnt have to tkae this "geography" course you speak of because i already had my Associates and transferred in with it so i had no GE to take. That aside though, the focus of your education is IT but to be a well rounded person they force you to take other courses ... so you know where the guy your calling is located in the world.

boostlag90

How is it going guys? Final after 3 months I'm getting ready to start WGU. I'm taking the B.S. Information Technology Security. I transferred Security + and about 20 some other credits in from the military. Hopefully I can complete the degree program within a year.

hurricane1091

I'm taking the CCNA Security on Friday and then moving on to Linux+ (would prefer to do Security+ immediately but that's okay). Really hoping to be able to finish the Linux+ by the end of June at the latest, and bang out Security+, Project+, and something else before 9/31

Can anyone assist on emailing the 'score report'? As far as I know, that's just something you do not get access to after the exam.

Best I can find on Cisco site is this:



Exam Result Details:


Testing Center Id:

xxxxxx



Exam Series #:
xxxxxx


Exam Name:
xxxxxx


Exam Date:
xxxxxx



Grade:
Passed

TheChameleon

I have been gearing up to enroll in the Network Admin track but trying to work-off some certs first and then they change the program.

Is this similar to a CS 101 where they make you do some Java project? What book are they using?

jeromelongj wrote: »

I'm in the network admin track and wasn't really aware we all got java forced upon us. I've had some back and forth about how worthless java is and was told that "cloud computing is leading blah blah" so I hit them back with a "then give us a vmware class." Well I tried anyway.

srabiee

The most current BSIT: Network Administration PDF on WGU's website was updated on 12/24/14. Here is the link to that document:

http://www.wgu.edu/wgu/prog_guide/BS_IT_NETW.pdf

Has the program changed again since December?

nster

Here's the latest Transfer Guideline updated the 30th of March 2015

JamesKurtovich

I had an odd issue today. I finished up the website project for C376, but WGU's hosting solution isn't working with my FTP client. I emailed my SM regarding the problem, to which he advised contacting IT. IT had no clue what I was talking about and advised me to call a CM. I emailed the CM and am waiting for a reply.

I went to the file manager (the alternative to the easier method of using an FTP client) and played with some of the settings... which killed the page. It wouldn't reload ("Too Many Redirects"). I actually had to read the source code to get an address to take me to the host's CP. WGU offers no contact information for technical assistance anywhere for this course.

I hope this sort of thing isn't going to be the norm for the next three years.

JamesKurtovich

The CMs were actually very supportive with this issue and were willing to troubleshoot with me over the phone. I'd already uploaded my project at that point though. I'm thinking it was a blocked port or something as I managed to connect over normal ol' FTP.

I woke up to a 100% on my project too.

hurricane1091

Passed the CCNA Security today but not by much, so C299 is out of the way. I'm not good with CCP, I never got it working on my computer. The simulator WGU provided thru Boson had some stuff in there that helped. I think I botched one sim pretty bad. I did labbing with ACLs and those make sense, plus a lot of it was just theory. Less technical than the R&S I think. I did a lot more labbing for the R&S anyway.

Probably should post this elsewhere but for the exam I watched CBT nuggets twice (took notes first time, then read the book, then watched videos again). It wasn't very interesting. Plus you're kind of at their mercy since you need to do stuff with ASAs, ZBF, CCP, etc to really lab and that's not an option for everyone obviously.

durena01

how was the capstone project in terms of difficulty regarding those who finished the BS in security