Student Experiences at Western Governors University (WGU)

Chris:/*

Even official Java Tutorials introduce these concepts BUT as you said it does provide bad habits that people get into. I look at a lot of code from people who have been programming for years and in today's world of "get it to market" and "we will patch it later" the inefficient use of loops and arrays is not a large concern.

The biggest things to me that still irritate me are no comments, no input validation, improper use of public and private methods and direct database manipulation from input.

apr911

Chris:/* wrote: »

Even official Java Tutorials introduce these concepts BUT as you said it does provide bad habits that people get into. I look at a lot of code from people who have been programming for years and in today's world of "get it to market" and "we will patch it later" the inefficient use of loops and arrays is not a large concern.

The biggest things to me that still irritate me are no comments, no input validation, improper use of public and private methods and direct database manipulation from input.

I will grant that the official java tutorials do in fact use these structures but I feel most them at least use them in the right sort of situation, not needlessly as is the case with WGU's task.

A loop of loops does have its place as does a 2 dimensional array but the use of them in the WGU program is just inefficient.

One of the better uses of a 2 dimensional array that Ive had for a course was for the storing of an x y coordinate pair for a triangle where the 1st array was the points, 0, 1, 2 = ABC and the second arrays were the coordinate pairs 0 1 = XY.

This made perfect sense as the XY values in the inner array were meaningless without each other and the coordinate pair point values in the outer array were meaningless without each other.

So the values had a direct dependence on each other thus the 2-dimensional array.

WGU wants an array of arrays to store the amount earned and the time spent and then as already mentioned they want you to run a nested for loop to retrieve every value when it would be easier and more efficient to add 1 extra line of code and statically assign which inner array value to read from i.e.

For (int i=0, i < length of outer array, i++) {

System.out.println(array [1]);
System.out.println(array [2]);}

vs

For (int i=0, i < length of outer array, i++){

For (int j=0, j < length of inner array /*(or 2)*/, j++){

System.out.println(array[j]);}

}

Please excuse any errors in my coding, its late here (2:30 am) and I just quickly threw this together to show my point

Chris:/*

I agree with you that it would be easier and better but you have to get students to envision how code looks especially if they have no experience.

I would also hope that the class teaches how to do this code properly later on.

apr911

Chris:/* wrote: »

I agree with you that it would be easier and better but you have to get students to envision how code looks especially if they have no experience.

I would also hope that the class teaches how to do this code properly later on.

NOPE! and that just it, this is the 1st task of a 2 part "Competency" assignment to complete the course. Id be more lenient if this was a "Do this quick program to show you know nested for loops" task but its using it in the actual final project

I admit since I already know a fair amount of Java, I am skipping direct to the final so I cant speak to course structure but I know it teaches straight out of "Big Java" (dont know the edition off hand) which is a fairly decent book so hopefully going through the actual class material will help those new to programming but I cant say for sure...

There is also a second follow-up programming course that has to do with interfacing Java with a database, this class has additional material as well that might show proper programming... I havent fully read the competency tasks for that one yet so I dont know if there are any requirements for useless coding in it. From what I can tell though it is a fairly legit project involving a ton of different methods and classes...

Chris:/*

I was not a fan of Big Java but that is me. I am not defending WGU on this one but I will say that I have seen similar improper coding techniques taught to students at other Big name B&M Universities. In the end most schools teach coding in a mechanical approach not artistic or "Proper." I find that more often to happen with OJT, self study or mentoring.

themagicone

My dislike of Taskstream got bigger today. I turned in my HVT1 powerpoint last night. 23 slides, mass mounts of typing, etc. Averaged out I got 2.95. The grader kept refering to "essay", as in "this essay doesn't do X or need more X in this essay". Um this was a powerpoint, not an essay. I figured I was to use bullet points to convey key points and ideas, not write a essay and paste it into powerpoint. Oh well they passed it but I don't think this grader knew what they were grading.

RoadwarriorsLive

erpadmin wrote: »

I was curious though about the rest of QLC1 I asked earlier though.

I didnt do QLC1 since it transferred for me but I had to take QLT1 and QMC1. I know this is a little late but I didnt get the books for either and just did the mindedge stuff online. It was more than enough as long as you can get through the practice and homework stuff. I moved through both of those pretty quickly.

My problem right now is humanities and science. I just cant get motavited for either of these. I pretty much blew off last week and only got one task turned in. Reading any of the text is putting me to sleep. I know its me but WOW this stuff just bores me to tears.

jmasterj206

themagicone wrote: »

My dislike of Taskstream got bigger today. I turned in my HVT1 powerpoint last night. 23 slides, mass mounts of typing, etc. Averaged out I got 2.95. The grader kept refering to "essay", as in "this essay doesn't do X or need more X in this essay". Um this was a powerpoint, not an essay. I figured I was to use bullet points to convey key points and ideas, not write a essay and paste it into powerpoint. Oh well they passed it but I don't think this grader knew what they were grading.

I had some long talks last week with my mentor about Taskstream. Every grader seems to interpret the tasks differently and there is no standardization. I still have 5 Taskstream based classes left before I graduate.

demonfurbie

im avoiding the taskstream like the plague

themagicone

RoadwarriorsLive wrote: »

I didnt do QLC1 since it transferred for me but I had to take QLT1 and QMC1. I know this is a little late but I didnt get the books for either and just did the mindedge stuff online. It was more than enough as long as you can get through the practice and homework stuff. I moved through both of those pretty quickly.

My problem right now is humanities and science. I just cant get motavited for either of these. I pretty much blew off last week and only got one task turned in. Reading any of the text is putting me to sleep. I know its me but WOW this stuff just bores me to tears.

Science is tuff but doable. Just read the book in chunks, watch the videos in the course community and you'll do fine. For humanities, I didn't read more than 10 pages in the books. I just studied mindedge, took a pre assessment, looked up what I didn't know and wrote notes of what to study. Passed with 69% this morning. The tasks are a little tuff but again only about a weeks amount of work.

RoadwarriorsLive

themagicone wrote: »

Science is tuff but doable. Just read the book in chunks, watch the videos in the course community and you'll do fine. For humanities, I didn't read more than 10 pages in the books. I just studied mindedge, took a pre assessment, looked up what I didn't know and wrote notes of what to study. Passed with 69% this morning. The tasks are a little tuff but again only about a weeks amount of work.

Thanks for the tips on this one. I was feeling there was so much it was a bit overwheming.

I saw 13 weeks for the timeframe so maybe I making too much out of it,

Pilotreborn

I got my transcripts evaluated and they are accepting everything from gen ed except for an ethics class it looks like. I have my intake interview tomorrow and I will be starting December 1st. Im really excited to get going.

RoadwarriorsLive

Pilotreborn wrote: »

I got my transcripts evaluated and they are accepting everything from gen ed except for an ethics class it looks like. I have my intake interview tomorrow and I will be starting December 1st. Im really excited to get going.

Congrats and welcome. I am having a blast with this except for one or 2 courses.

snokerpoker

Passed QLC1 this morning.....weee! Now on to QMC1. I also passed the pre-assessment for QMC today. I was wondering if anyone has experience with QMC and if it is similar to the pre-assessment, if it is I would like to schedule it soon.

eansdad

I scored about the same with just looking over the material for QMC1. Not much different then the pre-asesment I thought.


I have a question on TTV1 and TEV1...How close is Labsim to the actual test and at what practice score would it be good to take the exams? Having only taken the CIW Foundations exam I am still alittle nervous about taking exams vs what my practice test scores are.

snokerpoker

eansdad wrote: »

I scored about the same with just looking over the material for QMC1. Not much different then the pre-asesment I thought.


I have a question on TTV1 and TEV1...How close is Labsim to the actual test and at what practice score would it be good to take the exams? Having only taken the CIW Foundations exam I am still alittle nervous about taking exams vs what my practice test scores are.

Cool. Thanks for the heads up. I have yet to tak TTV or TEV1 so I cannot provide any useful info for those courses. Best of luck!

apr911

Anyone have any experience asking their mentors for learning resources for courses they dont need?

i.e. I received transfer credit for
BGV1 <--CCNA
BLV1 <-- CCNA:S
TSV1 <-- Sec+
ABV1 <-- MCTS Win7

I would love to have the learning resources for all of those even though I have received transfer credit for them, especially the testout suite for CCNA and MCTS Win7 as both exams are on my to-do list in the near future

I emailed my mentor and I am awaiting a response but I thought Id ask here as well to see if they have any experience with it just in case my mentor comes back with an "I dont know" response, I can save him some time trying to find out the answer if someone has had success and I can direct him to their mentor...

eansdad

Mine said no for the MCITP:SA related courses. No biggie since we have full access to books through skillport and student pricing on the exams.

earweed

Contact customer support at Labsim/testout and you also get student pricing for the Labsims.

eansdad

Since they are attached to your degree course you might have better luck then I did. You can also retract the credits and take the classes but if you already have those certs then it might not be worth it.

petedude

Was able to pass with just the Site Development Foundations book, some Google-ing, and prior background (including the Database Specialist exam). Used uCertify and vCampus practice exams as well. Can't say enough good things about that uCertify product.

But that's pass as in. . . right on the mark. No more, no less. I was hearing my mentor rag on me in my head as I reached for the score button.

If I'd even studied even a few more days, I'd have been more percentage points past passing, but I have been pushing myself hardcore schedule-wise. All I have left now for my BSIT are the capstone courses, LET1 and the two Java courses.

earweed

Congrats petedude! Barely passing is just as good as scoring perfect once the cert is in hand and the class is passed.

apr911

Congrats PeteDude!

We will certainly be looking forward to details about your experiences with the capstone.

I have a questions about the other 2 management courses, ORC1 and MGC1 I believe. How did you find the required knowledge-base and material for them?

I am finishing up LAT1, LUT1 and GTT1 this month but looking at the 3 management courses (LET1, ORC1, MGC1) in December to round out 2010.

This way I can start GUT1 and the 2 capstone courses in January.

jmasterj206

apr911 wrote: »

Congrats PeteDude!

We will certainly be looking forward to details about your experiences with the capstone.

I have a questions about the other 2 management courses, ORC1 and MGC1 I believe. How did you find the required knowledge-base and material for them?

I am finishing up LAT1, LUT1 and GTT1 this month but looking at the 3 management courses (LET1, ORC1, MGC1) in December to round out 2010.

This way I can start GUT1 and the 2 capstone courses in January.

apr,
I just recently finished LET1, MGC1, and ORC1. I ended up buying the books for those. I didn't use them too much. If you have business experience and know HR speak you should be alright. When you sign up for the class you may want to take the pre assessment and see where you are at. I picked the books up for 20 bucks used on Ebay and just sold them last week for 30 bucks a piece. Doing the 3 classes took me about a month. LET1 requires 4 papers. LET1 and ORC1 use the same book. I found there was a lot of overlap between all three.

apr911

jmasterj206 wrote: »

I just recently finished LET1, MGC1, and ORC1. I ended up buying the books for those. I didn't use them too much. If you have business experience and know HR speak you should be alright.

I was running a small business up until December of last year so I like to think I have the business and management experience. I also have always had a head for business so hopefully Ill be alright, that being said I will probably have to brush up on my HR vocab if that is the case.

jmasterj206 wrote: »

When you sign up for the class you may want to take the pre assessment and see where you are at. I picked the books up for 20 bucks used on Ebay and just sold them last week for 30 bucks a piece. Doing the 3 classes took me about a month. LET1 requires 4 papers. LET1 and ORC1 use the same book. I found there was a lot of overlap between all three.

Thats what I was planning to do and I am glad to hear there is quite a bit of overlap. Thats why I was thinking Id do all 3 together. Definitely happy to hear it took you a month to do all 3 as that is my target completion.

themagicone

Who has taken SSC1 and SST1? I started Monday on SSC1 and it seems pretty easy, just again a lot of info to cover. I really don't agree with that is only worth 1 CU. SST1 is two 5 to 7 page essays. HVT1 was worth 3 and was less work than that, SST1 is only worth 2. Their CU assignment is a joke.

earweed

The CU assignments keep changing and evolving. I had a class that was 12 CUs by itself a while back (I've been going to WGU for 2 years) and that class was probably the easiest class I've ever taken. It was the old leadership and professionalism class which has been replaced by other classes.

petedude

apr911 wrote: »

. . .
I have a questions about the other 2 management courses, ORC1 and MGC1 I believe. How did you find the required knowledge-base and material for them?
. . .

MGC1 is one I had some prep for. I had taken the CLEP for that a couple years back with Excelsior, so I was familiar with the material. I did pick up the Comex CLEP book off eBay (ISBN 1560301457) and flip through it. WGU's emphases differ from CLEP's, but I still passed.

For ORC1, I had an older Robbins book already as I had planned to take the DSST originally (ISBN 0131445715). As of a few months ago, the book's website was still available. I read through the whole book and used the website's practice tests to gauge my readiness. The older book is missing a chapter or two that are in the newer WGU-listed text, but I vaguely remember googling for some of that. Took about two-and-a-half weeks for me to read, then a week or so of testing with the website practice tests. That older book was a tough read at moments owing to some very compact writing-- they would squeeze what other people would say in two pages into one. That's partly why it's such a small, portable book for a textbook. Anyway, passed on a smaller margin than I did with MGC1 because of certain things on the exam I hadn't seen, but I still passed.

As others have mentioned, there's a fair amount of overlap between MGC1 and ORC1 (this will be the case with similar courses at any school, anyway). That overlap will definitely save you time if you can take them together.

veritas_libertas

This semester has been the most rough so far. A combination of leading two IT projects at work that aren't finished yet, a baby girl on the way, and math combined has me looking for a vacation with none in sight

I've scheduled QLC1 for December 14th and TPV1 (Project+) for the first week of January.

Anyone else at WGU feeling like: ?

earweed

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Anyone else at WGU feeling like: ?

Yeah....
70-643 has kicked my butt so bad and now I can't get my retake scheduled til the 30th due to no seats available anywhere. I'm ready to do it NOW and can't take it for nearly 2 more weeks.