Unix or Linux or CCNA?

loxleynew

Which to get first? I'm currently studying for my CCNA but it will still be a while before I can take that test. However in looking for a new job most people seem to want linux or unix more so than ccna. I mean how hard is it to get experience with unix or linux in a home lab type setup?

I know ccna would more so be for networking and unix/linux sys admin type stuff but the job i'm looking for would be for kinda both.

Bl8ckr0uter

loxleynew wrote: »

Which to get first? I'm currently studying for my CCNA but it will still be a while before I can take that test. However in looking for a new job most people seem to want linux or unix more so than ccna. I mean how hard is it to get experience with unix or linux in a home lab type setup?

I know ccna would more so be for networking and unix/linux sys admin type stuff but the job i'm looking for would be for kinda both.

I think the CCNA cert would do more for your resume than a LPIC-1 (just because of Cisco ubiquity and stuff). The Linux knowledge might do more for your skillset. I suggest doing after both (as I am) because I am looking to move into security and both seemed to be desired.

As P stated, getting started with linux isn't hard.

NightShade03

knwminus wrote: »

I think the CCNA cert would do more for your resume than a LPIC-1 (just because of Cisco ubiquity and stuff).

You could also argue that the LPIC-1 would do more because everyone is going after the CCNA.

Either way you should pursue what you like working with.

Bl8ckr0uter

NightShade03 wrote: »

You could also argue that the LPIC-1 would do more because everyone is going after the CCNA.

Either way you should pursue what you like working with.

Lol here we go. But yes I do agree. I hope the LPIC-1 will do something for my resume in a few months.

loxleynew

Hmm thanks for the responses! I think i'll continue going after CCNA and for leisure time mess around with linux on a seperate box since it does seem to be let's say easier to self study.

Bl8ckr0uter

loxleynew wrote: »

Hmm thanks for the responses! I think i'll continue going after CCNA and for leisure time mess around with linux on a seperate box since it does seem to be let's say easier to self study.

Grab a copy of virtual box and download 1 deb based (debian or ubuntu) and 1 red hat based linux (fedora or centOS) and maybe a BSD for extra credit. I am doing this and it is interesting to see the differences but the concepts transfer.

Bl8ckr0uter

phoeneous wrote: »

GNS3 is your friend, but nothing beats real hardware.

GNS3 | Graphical Network Simulator

Install it on ubuntu and kill two birds with one stone (learning linux and learning gns3).

loxleynew

phoeneous wrote: »

GNS3 is your friend, but nothing beats real hardware.

GNS3 | Graphical Network Simulator

Wow thanks this looks like it will help a lot. Especially seeing the "big picture" of the network.

loxleynew

knwminus wrote: »

Grab a copy of virtual box and download 1 deb based (debian or ubuntu) and 1 red hat based linux (fedora or centOS) and maybe a BSD for extra credit. I am doing this and it is interesting to see the differences but the concepts transfer.

I just got VB and am getting Ubuntu now so going to give it a try tonight. Thanks.

Bl8ckr0uter

loxleynew wrote: »

Wow thanks this looks like it will help a lot. Especially seeing the "big picture" of the network.

Just know that you will need to have your own copy of the IOS to use GNS3. It isn't a simulator like packet tracer, it uses the REAL IOS.

tiersten

phoeneous wrote: »

And for Unix, check out PC-BSD - Home.

Does anybody even use that in a business environment? Its a fairly recent distribution forked from FreeBSD and does its own thing in several areas like package management. Those changes alone would mean I'd steer clear of using it as a learning environment since you'll just learn what PC-BSD does. It is apparently more user friendly than other BSDs but you won't be learning anything.

If you want experience of *NIX then I'd say try OpenSolaris or maybe OpenBSD as they're both available for free. You're going to find it difficult to get AIX or HP-UX which are the other two main commercial *NIX OSes out there. Less popular BSDs would be NetBSD and FreeBSD.

If you want something which has better prospects (and excluding the various Linux distributions) then I'd say stick with AIX but I'm biased since I use AIX :P

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

If you want experience of *NIX then I'd say try OpenSolaris or maybe OpenBSD as they're both available for free. You're going to find it difficult to get AIX or HP-UX which are the other two main commercial *NIX OSes out there. Less popular BSDs would be NetBSD and FreeBSD.

If you want something which has better prospects (and excluding the various Linux distributions) then I'd say stick with AIX but I'm biased since I use AIX :P

You the first person who has suggested OpenSolaris. Interesting. That might be good for those people who might be interested in Sun certs. I thought they were having problems with OpenSolaris since the Oracle take over.

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

You the first person who has suggested OpenSolaris. Interesting. That might be good for those people who might be interested in Sun certs.

I'm just naming *NIX distributions that are used widely in a business environment and are also free. OpenSolaris is the closest you'll get to the old SPARC Solaris for free and it'll run on most recent x86 PCs. There are quite a few Sun servers out there still and OpenSolaris experience is better than Linux or none.

OpenBSD is popular for servers due to the quality of the code and the rigorous reviews of everything. I'd recommend it over FreeBSD or NetBSD.

If you want a nice simple *NIX that'll teach you about how the system works and how everything is put together then install MINIX and get the related books. It isn't going to help you much out in the business world though.

knwminus wrote: »

I thought they were having problems with OpenSolaris since the Oracle take over.

They're having issues with leadership and direction of OpenSolaris since Oracle doesn't really seem to know what they want to do with it.

dynamik

I didn't know PC-BSD was significantly different than FreeBSD. I thought it was just a distro designed to be user-friendly. Interesting. I never bothered because I didn't want a GUI...

Also, while not as cheap or convenient as a VM, I've seen some P-series with AIX 6.1 go for a few hundred on eBay. That's not out of the question as far as lab equipment goes.

I recently got an OpenBSD VPS, and I've been having a blast playing around with that. One particular highlight is showing clients how easy it is to circumvent their web filtering. "We can't even see those URLs in the logs!" Yea, SSH running on 443 is a b!tch...

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

... OpenSolaris experience is better than Linux or none.

I am not sure what you mean by that last statement. Are you saying that OpenSolaris experience is better than general linux experience?

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

I am not sure what you mean by that last statement. Are you saying that OpenSolaris experience is better than general linux experience?

"There are quite a few Sun servers out there still and OpenSolaris experience is better than Linux or none."

If you're going to be working with Sun gear then OpenSolaris is better than Linux experience? If you think that knowing Linux (GNU/Linux if you're RMS) means you're a god at every *NIX out there then you're going to get a surprise.

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

"There are quite a few Sun servers out there still and OpenSolaris experience is better than Linux or none."

If you're going to be working with Sun gear then OpenSolaris is better than Linux experience? If you think that knowing Linux (GNU/Linux if you're RMS) means you're a god at every *NIX out there then you're going to get a surprise.

Interesting. Thanks for the input.

tiersten

phoeneous wrote: »

Likewise.

The parts that make it more user friendly also make it different than standard FreeBSD. The installer, package manager, administrator tools and where packages are even installed are different in PC-BSD. If you only know how to use the user friendly tools then what happens if you then have to use FreeBSD or another BSD which doesn't come with it? Having software end up in its own directory in /Programs isn't a normal *NIX thing...

If you're using PC-BSD but not using the extra tools/changes then you might as well use FreeBSD :P

sidsanders

what type of exp on unix are the jobs you are looking at requiring (certs, degree, c/c++/etc)? note that adding users/backups/etc will be diff then supporting dev folks (core **** analysis, compilers, etc). curious since not all folks enjoy programming and at times unix support may require it.

phantasm

phoeneous wrote: »

What would you suggest as the most beginner friendly nix?

Do a command line install of Gentoo. You'll learn more about Linux in those 6hrs then you would in a month with Ubuntu. lol.

Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Gentoo Handbook

Gentoo Linux -- Where to Get Gentoo Linux

NightShade03

phoeneous wrote: »

What would you suggest as the most beginner friendly nix?

Ubuntu hands down.

loxleynew

sidsanders wrote: »

what type of exp on unix are the jobs you are looking at requiring (certs, degree, c/c++/etc)? note that adding users/backups/etc will be diff then supporting dev folks (core **** analysis, compilers, etc). curious since not all folks enjoy programming and at times unix support may require it.

Mainly support developers. Side note I hate programming beside the occasional VB or batch scripting which hardly counts lol.

loxleynew

phantasm wrote: »

Do a command line install of Gentoo. You'll learn more about Linux in those 6hrs then you would in a month with Ubuntu. lol.

Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Gentoo Handbook

Gentoo Linux -- Where to Get Gentoo Linux

So basically it helps teach you the commands for *NIX that Ubuntu wouldn't because Ubuntu is more "user friendly"? On a side note this may sound dumb but why memorize hundreds of commands when you can just look them up later? I know some of them would come in handy and are necessary to remember but just like dos many of those commands are pointless remembering besides when you need them?

I guess ^^ is my lack of understanding but just curious before I dive into the world of *NIX and further away from GUI interfaces.

NightShade03

loxleynew wrote: »

So basically it helps teach you the commands for *NIX that Ubuntu wouldn't because Ubuntu is more "user friendly"? On a side note this may sound dumb but why memorize hundreds of commands when you can just look them up later? I know some of them would come in handy and are necessary to remember but just like dos many of those commands are pointless remembering besides when you need them?

I guess ^^ is my lack of understanding but just curious before I dive into the world of *NIX and further away from GUI interfaces.

Ubuntu has a nice pretty GUI which protects you from alot of the underlying "what's going on". With Gentoo you have to build the operating system up to the way you want it (libraries, drivers, programs, etc). They are very different extremes. If you really just want more hands on while using Ubuntu though you could always uninstall the desktop manager and work from the command line...forcing you to gain an understanding.


As for your question about commands. It isn't necessary to memorize them per se, however knowing many different commands makes you more effective and you can fly around the system and get things done faster because you aren't spending time looking things up. If you ever move on to take an exam like the LPIC they quiz on the commands and their options. The Red Hat exams are all hands on, so you better know what you are doing and the commands or you will never pass there. So you are right you don't need to know them....but it sure helps.

Another way to look at it is....if you've used linux all your life and are moving onto window with all GUIs....I would have to spend time figuring out where the different options are to do different tasks. You are just doing the reverse but from the command line.

SephStorm

IMO, I think it is a good idea to say use ubuntu, and do the gui install. Use it mostly like a regular PC, but say if you need to move a file, go to the command line. start off there, doing basic tasks. That is how I learned what I do know of linux, not just typing in a bunch of commands and not really "seeing" an effect. After you played around with it for a while, then go commando.

And I am not familiar with Gentoo, but I would suggest going with a distro a little more well known, Ubuntu or Fedora. Fedora is based off of Red Hat which is tested in L+/LPI exams, from my understanding.

NightShade03

SephStorm wrote: »

Fedora is based off of Red Hat which is tested in L+/LPI exams, from my understanding.

The LPI exams are distro neutral. They test on both Redhat/Fedora and Ubuntu/Debian commands (yum vs apt).

dynamik

If you want to learn, pick whatever distro you want (they're far more similar than they aredifferent; it really doesn't matter when you're starting out), but don't do a GUI install. Being stuck at the command-line is whole different world. It'll force you to learn, but you'll love it once you get it down.

If you just want a functional desktop OS, Ubuntu is the way to go. Fedora's alright too.

phantasm

loxleynew wrote: »

So basically it helps teach you the commands for *NIX that Ubuntu wouldn't because Ubuntu is more "user friendly"? On a side note this may sound dumb but why memorize hundreds of commands when you can just look them up later? I know some of them would come in handy and are necessary to remember but just like dos many of those commands are pointless remembering besides when you need them?

I guess ^^ is my lack of understanding but just curious before I dive into the world of *NIX and further away from GUI interfaces.

The commands you learn are not useless and you will use most daily when using Linux. Providing of course that you don't spend all your time in Linux in the GUI. If you plan to use the GUI only then stick with Windows.

Other things like formatting and creating file systems will be taught to you as well as system file configuration and where the files are stored. You learn a lot during a Gentoo install, but no one I've recommended it to have done it. Instead they call me all the time when they're looking for a configuration file. Of which I don't answer them anymore.

A little pain now or a lot of pain later. Gentoo is versatile as can be and will allow you to tweak the system in ways that no other distro lets you. Think USE flags. But again, you don't know what those are unless you've installed and used Gentoo.

NightShade03

phoeneous wrote: »

I meant Unix, not Linux.

Free BSD or OpenSolaris

dynamik

OpenBSD

SephStorm

phantasm wrote: »

The commands you learn are not useless and you will use most daily when using Linux. Providing of course that you don't spend all your time in Linux in the GUI. If you plan to use the GUI only then stick with Windows.

Other things like formatting and creating file systems will be taught to you as well as system file configuration and where the files are stored. You learn a lot during a Gentoo install, but no one I've recommended it to have done it. Instead they call me all the time when they're looking for a configuration file. Of which I don't answer them anymore.

A little pain now or a lot of pain later. Gentoo is versatile as can be and will allow you to tweak the system in ways that no other distro lets you. Think USE flags. But again, you don't know what those are unless you've installed and used Gentoo.

Interesting, but I think that is percisly why a new linux user shouldn't start out with something like a gentoo install, the amount of options could be overwhelming. I of course, say this without reviewing the documentation. I'll probably download it tonight and work through it, but I have my reservations, and doubts.

Also, that last remark worries me, "Think USE flags. But again, you don't know what those are unless you've installed and used Gentoo."

If a person is trying to learn Linux in general, they don't need to be distracted with distro specific commands and whatnot. Especially during the install process. Next thing you know hes trying to use a gentoo command on a centos install. Unlikely there will be any negative side effects, but now he was to run around troubleshooting when his six our install doesn't work.