Chasing CCIE written

Forsaken_GA

Mrock4 wrote: »

I second Forsaken's words. I went with INE as well, based on their instructors style (which I like, and am used to), as well as the all access pass, which is perfect for me. I'm a harsh critic (especially when we're talking about really expensive PDF's)..but the INE material is totally worth every dime.

When it comes to the lab though, why not use both? I plan on using a majority of INE's materials, but probably will end up going through some IPX labs just to be safe.

Oh, and best of luck to you.

Well, for me, the reason not to do both is simply cost. I don't think paying for IPExpert's material is going to be very beneficial after working through all of INE's (and vice versa if you went the other way), so the return on investment just isn't there. It'd be like trying to get a CS degree from Georgia State after I already had one from Georgia Tech. I'd rather spend the cash to attend something like Narbik's bootcamp instead to get my other perspective.

I might change my mind if IPExpert shifts to a similar pricing model as INE, but while it's still an up front lump sum cost, I'm just not interested.

zerglings

I went with INE as well. I talked to another CCIE candidate who used IPExpert and was told that INE has better materials than IPExpert. Besides, when I was building my lab, I already followed INE's topology and deviating from that doesn't make sense.

I've watched several videos already before they refreshed it and I like it. I did some of the labs already and it makes you really think rather than the "do this" approach.

yeah, I might need it with less outlet. I'm leaning on the GNS3 + switches since its cost effective compare to the complete lab. It will also save me electricity. lol

GNS3 and/or Dynamips is a good alternative. Though, I am just an old school guy. I just like real hardware. Now, my problem is finding a space for it since I just recently moved.

Forsaken_GA

zerglings wrote: »

GNS3 and/or Dynamips is a good alternative. Though, I am just an old school guy. I just like real hardware. Now, my problem is finding a space for it since I just recently moved.

I like using dynampis and IOU for quick proof of concept things, since it gives me a little more flexibility. But for actual Lab practice, I agree, I prefer real gear. hard enough learning how to trouble shoot the real gear, add another point of failure to where you have to determine if the problem is caused by the configuration, or some stupid emulator bug is time I'd rather not spend.

zerglings

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I like using dynampis and IOU for quick proof of concept things, since it gives me a little more flexibility. But for actual Lab practice, I agree, I prefer real gear. hard enough learning how to trouble shoot the real gear, add another point of failure to where you have to determine if the problem is caused by the configuration, or some stupid emulator bug is time I'd rather not spend.

Very true. I also use GNS3 just to do a quickie one.

NOC-Ninja

Mrock4 wrote: »

I second Forsaken's words. I went with INE as well, based on their instructors style (which I like, and am used to), as well as the all access pass, which is perfect for me. I'm a harsh critic (especially when we're talking about really expensive PDF's)..but the INE material is totally worth every dime.

When it comes to the lab though, why not use both? I plan on using a majority of INE's materials, but probably will end up going through some IPX labs just to be safe.

Oh, and best of luck to you.

Thanks. I like your quote of Donald trump.
I would like to use both labs but I dont think I have that money to spend. My employer is not helping. I guess they know whats going to happen as soon as I get the CCIE.

NOC-Ninja

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Well, for me, the reason not to do both is simply cost. I don't think paying for IPExpert's material is going to be very beneficial after working through all of INE's (and vice versa if you went the other way), so the return on investment just isn't there. It'd be like trying to get a CS degree from Georgia State after I already had one from Georgia Tech. I'd rather spend the cash to attend something like Narbik's bootcamp instead to get my other perspective.

I might change my mind if IPExpert shifts to a similar pricing model as INE, but while it's still an up front lump sum cost, I'm just not interested.

Yeah, I've been looking through Narbik.
The WB Foundation 4.0 has 2,500 pages. Also, its so cost effective. For $3k, I get the bootcamp, 3 workbooks and cisco 360. I dont need to spend money on the airplane ticket since they have classes at burbank which is an hour for me. I can just rent a room in a cheap hotel.
Furthermore. they gave me their GNS3 topology.

The CONS:

1. they dont have VOD
2. their support havent been tested yet.
3. it doesnt seem like there people that goes to narbik. Most of the time is INE.

NOC-Ninja

1. The problem is the home lab will cost more due to more hardware.
2. Electricity due to more hardware
3. Heat (summer time just kills it)
4. Space (I currently live in a small house. I really dont know where to place it)
5. Noise (I think the noise will affect my studying)
6. Overall. It is cheaper.

I'm aware of the bugs of GNS3. I have deal with that.

I can finally get a 3560. I dont need to limit myself.

Forsaken_GA

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

The CONS:

1. they dont have VOD
2. their support havent been tested yet.
3. it doesnt seem like there people that goes to narbik. Most of the time is INE.

Narbik has quite alot of customers. Alot of folks who went with INE or IPExpert for their normal vendor, choose to do their bootcamps with Narbik instead of the vendor. The man has a Reputation

NOC-Ninja

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Narbik has quite alot of customers. Alot of folks who went with INE or IPExpert for their normal vendor, choose to do their bootcamps with Narbik instead of the vendor. The man has a Reputation

Oh I see. So the route should be INE or IPexpert on the self study then Narbik for bootcamp. Sounds like a very expensive route.

I wonder if there's anybody that just went to Narbik the whole time and passed the test.

Narbik's WB Foundation 4.0 (2,500 pages) is already a lot of work.

Forsaken_GA

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Oh I see. So the route should be INE or IPexpert on the self study then Narbik for bootcamp. Sounds like a very expensive route.

I wonder if there's anybody that just went to Narbik the whole time and passed the test.

Narbik's WB Foundation 4.0 (2,500 pages) is already a lot of work.

Yeah, Narbik has his own success stories for students. And it's really not much more expensive. His bootcamps are priced around the same as the INE and IPExpert ones. The End-to-End no excuses (which is what I plan on doing, depending on when he sets his date next year) is $4500, whereas the equivalent 10 day bootcamp from INE is $5999. The price difference is offset by the fact that INE includes a full years subscription to the All Access Pass with it. Narbik's 5 day bootcamp is $2995, INE's is $2999.

Interestingly, IPExpert doesn't appear to list prices for their bootcamps anymore. If they do, it's pretty well hidden on their website, all I see are links to contact sales. Which, to me, means their prices are either not competitive, or very negotiable.

So when it comes to bootcamps, it's pretty much pick your poison, choose which instructor you want. Location and dates the bootcamps are being held might also play into it. For example, if Narbik doesn't have a bootcamp in the states during a time frame I'd want to or be able to attend, then I'd schedule an INE bootcamp instead, assuming they did.

reaper81

If I go for a bootcamp it will probably be Narbik even though I only use INE materials. The man is a legend and he has a very good reputation.

Now that INE cleaned up their house I could definately go for a bootcamp there as well. The Brians and Petr are all excellent intrstructors.

I don't know that much about IP Expert more than that Marko is a very nice guy but his voice does not appeal to me in same way as other instructors.

Forsaken_GA

reaper81 wrote: »

I don't know that much about IP Expert more than that Marko is a very nice guy but his voice does not appeal to me in same way as other instructors.

Yup, I hate to say it, but after hearing Marko more than once on Packet Pushers, and watching some of IPExpert's free seminars, the accent gets on my nerves pretty quickly. While that may be a little bit shallow, I'm the consumer, and I'm going to spend my cash on the product that I think is going to benefit me the most.

With that being said, with the quality achieving relative parity between the different vendors, the preeminent decision for me was cost. Assuming I can pass the lab with 9 to 10 months of study, which is what I'm aiming for, the cost of going with INE's all access pass and the discounted workbooks is ~60% of what IPExpert's solution would cost me. Assuming I take 10 months, that'd be $1600 for the all access pass, plus the $300 for the workbooks, so $1900. IPExpert's blended learning solution is $2600 if you take the streaming option instead of the hard drive. With quality being as close as it is, a 40% discount is not something I can easily ignore. I'd have to run INE's solution out to 17 months to make IPExpert a better deal, so that gives me a pretty good cushion.

reaper81

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Yup, I hate to say it, but after hearing Marko more than once on Packet Pushers, and watching some of IPExpert's free seminars, the accent gets on my nerves pretty quickly. While that may be a little bit shallow, I'm the consumer, and I'm going to spend my cash on the product that I think is going to benefit me the most.

With that being said, with the quality achieving relative parity between the different vendors, the preeminent decision for me was cost. Assuming I can pass the lab with 9 to 10 months of study, which is what I'm aiming for, the cost of going with INE's all access pass and the discounted workbooks is ~60% of what IPExpert's solution would cost me. Assuming I take 10 months, that'd be $1600 for the all access pass, plus the $300 for the workbooks, so $1900. IPExpert's blended learning solution is $2600 if you take the streaming option instead of the hard drive. With quality being as close as it is, a 40% discount is not something I can easily ignore. I'd have to run INE's solution out to 17 months to make IPExpert a better deal, so that gives me a pretty good cushion.

Definately agree. INE is doing most things right just now. Their community and blog is also better IMO. You can learn a ton of things from the blog alone.

Petr is a mastermind and Brians are no slouches either.

Marko's voice just doesn't do it for me, it is the accent that contributes to it. It's the same thing like Trainsignal vs CBT with Jeremy. Jeremy is just so much more fun and easy to listen to than Chris Bryant even though Chris is an excellent instructor and goes more into the depth of stuff.

You just have to find the stuff that works for you though. Check the sample material that is out there.

Mrock4

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Well, for me, the reason not to do both is simply cost.

I don't have IPX open to see the cost- but I was referring to just buying one of their workbooks. That'd be worth it to me. Besides, whats another few hundred bucks, when I've already dumped a boatload into books, gear, etc. Just my personal approach I guess.

zerglings

AAP is great and probably the cheaper route to do the IE, but probably not for me. When I decided to buy my materials, AAP wasn't available so my only choice was to get the the v4 package and I was able to get a pretty good deal in my opinion (35% off). I could've asked my previous employer to pay for the materials, but it would have to be Cisco 360 and I have to stick with them for quite a while. That didn't pan out since I wanted to go back to my home state.

I've read good reviews about Narbik's boot camp as well. While I would love to go to a boot camp, I don't know if I want to pay for it. I've invested a good chunk of money for IE materials and my lab already. I think with a good preparation it would be fine without the boot camp. Then again, what I think is usually wrong.

NOC-Ninja

Can you guys check my list? Kim's Ninja Way to CCIE CCIE Lab
It'll be great to have 2nd set of eyes just in case I am missing something.

I'm trying to copy what this guy did - Build your own CCIE rack

I need to build the computer. What do you guys think of GNS3 on a Windows? I have it in my laptop but it does eat a lot of bandwidth. Im going to build a computer with 16gb memory.

NOC-Ninja

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Yeah, Narbik has his own success stories for students. And it's really not much more expensive. His bootcamps are priced around the same as the INE and IPExpert ones. The End-to-End no excuses (which is what I plan on doing, depending on when he sets his date next year) is $4500, whereas the equivalent 10 day bootcamp from INE is $5999. The price difference is offset by the fact that INE includes a full years subscription to the All Access Pass with it. Narbik's 5 day bootcamp is $2995, INE's is $2999.

Interestingly, IPExpert doesn't appear to list prices for their bootcamps anymore. If they do, it's pretty well hidden on their website, all I see are links to contact sales. Which, to me, means their prices are either not competitive, or very negotiable.

So when it comes to bootcamps, it's pretty much pick your poison, choose which instructor you want. Location and dates the bootcamps are being held might also play into it. For example, if Narbik doesn't have a bootcamp in the states during a time frame I'd want to or be able to attend, then I'd schedule an INE bootcamp instead, assuming they did.

5 days bootcamp
$2,995.00


1. Upon registration, the students will receive an E-COPY of “The Foundation 4.0” Work Book; this workbook prepares the students for the Boot Camp. Written by Narbik Kocharians
2. On the first day of the boot camp the students get the following: A Secured PDF file of the “Advanced CCIE Routing and Switching 4.0” Work Book. This book is written by Narbik Kocharians. Valued at $350.
3. A Secure PDF file of the “Advanced Boot Camp 4.0”. This workbook is written by Narbik Kocharians values at $499 USD.
4. Cisco’s 360 Program Courseware, web portal, and Lab Guide


"End to End no excuses (12 days)
$4,500.00

1. Upon registration, the students will receive an E-COPY of “The Foundation 4.0” Work Book, this workbook prepares the students for the Boot Camp. Written by Narbik Kocharians
2. On the first day of the boot camp the students get the following: A Secured PDF file of the “Advanced CCIE Routing and Switching 4.0” Work Book. This book is written by Narbik Kocharians. Valued at $350.
3. A Secure PDF file of the “Advanced Boot Camp 4.0”. This workbook is written by Narbik Kocharians values at $499 USD.
4. A Secure PDF file of the “Troubleshooting 4.0”. This workbook is specifically designed and authored by Narbik Kocharians and Dan Shechter to prepare and teach the students the different methods to troubleshoot different protocols (Layer 2 and above) so the students can be more proficient in the trouble shooting section of the lab.
5. Cisco’s 360 Program Courseware, web portal, and Lab Guide


The only difference is that the End to End no excuse has troubleshooting section. I think Im going to lean on Narbik. Its true that his students went thru INE since i google his lists of students at the website and their names came up in the INE website.

NOC-Ninja

reaper81 wrote: »

If I go for a bootcamp it will probably be Narbik even though I only use INE materials. The man is a legend and he has a very good reputation.

Now that INE cleaned up their house I could definately go for a bootcamp there as well. The Brians and Petr are all excellent intrstructors.

I don't know that much about IP Expert more than that Marko is a very nice guy but his voice does not appeal to me in same way as other instructors.

What do you mean INE cleaned up?

NOC-Ninja

reaper81 wrote: »

Definately agree. INE is doing most things right just now. Their community and blog is also better IMO. You can learn a ton of things from the blog alone.

Petr is a mastermind and Brians are no slouches either.

Marko's voice just doesn't do it for me, it is the accent that contributes to it. It's the same thing like Trainsignal vs CBT with Jeremy. Jeremy is just so much more fun and easy to listen to than Chris Bryant even though Chris is an excellent instructor and goes more into the depth of stuff.

You just have to find the stuff that works for you though. Check the sample material that is out there.

I have to agree with you on this. It seems that INE have a great community support. Everyone is just active and that's what I really need.

NOC-Ninja

Im looking at Access over 800 hours of the best Cisco lab preparation including: CCIE Training - CCIE R&S, CCIE Voice, CCIE Security / CCNP, CCDP, CCNA, CCENT
The all Access from INE cost $1599/year. I wonder if there's a way that I can ask them to lower that price.

NOC-Ninja

Here's my plan after listening to all your comments
High level Plan = Expenses

1. INE All Access Pass - $1599/year
2. Narbik 5 days Bootcamp - $2,995 (End to End is too much. I don't think my Boss will let me out for 2 weeks.)
3. Hotel + Food Expenses for Bootcamp - $500
4. CCIE Home Lab - $2,000 - $2,500
5. CCIE Written - $350 per attempt
6. CCIE Lab - $1,400 per attempt
7. Airplane Ticket + Hotel + Food Expenses for Test - $500-600

Estimated Total = $9944 - IF I don't fail.

reaper81

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

What do you mean INE cleaned up?

They let Anthony and Keith go. They are both very nice guys but quality wise it's a lot better now when Brians and Petr do all the material.

Mrock4

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Here's my plan after listening to all your comments
High level Plan = Expenses

1. INE All Access Pass - $1599/year
2. Narbik 5 days Bootcamp - $2,995 (End to End is too much. I don't think my Boss will let me out for 2 weeks.)
3. Hotel + Food Expenses for Bootcamp - $500
4. CCIE Home Lab - $2,000 - $2,500
5. CCIE Written - $350 per attempt
6. CCIE Lab - $1,400 per attempt
7. Airplane Ticket + Hotel + Food Expenses for Test - $500-600

Estimated Total = $9944 - IF I don't fail.

You're forgetting the key ingredient to success. Caffeine. Budget accordingly!

jason_lunde

Mrock4 wrote: »

You're forgetting the key ingredient to success. Caffeine. Budget accordingly!

Whoa Crap!! Mrock sighting. I thought you had died man...wtf happened to you? life?

Turgon

reaper81 wrote: »

They let Anthony and Keith go. They are both very nice guys but quality wise it's a lot better now when Brians and Petr do all the material.

Petr is a savant although it can be difficult for students to keep up with him, I think partly because his mathematical foundation training is so strong. What may be obvious to him may take others longer to grasp.

Turgon

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Here's my plan after listening to all your comments
High level Plan = Expenses

1. INE All Access Pass - $1599/year
2. Narbik 5 days Bootcamp - $2,995 (End to End is too much. I don't think my Boss will let me out for 2 weeks.)
3. Hotel + Food Expenses for Bootcamp - $500
4. CCIE Home Lab - $2,000 - $2,500
5. CCIE Written - $350 per attempt
6. CCIE Lab - $1,400 per attempt
7. Airplane Ticket + Hotel + Food Expenses for Test - $500-600

Estimated Total = $9944 - IF I don't fail.

If you are going to do a bootcamp I recommend you do it long after you have cleared the written and amassed sufficient lab prep hours so you really do have a solid foundation both theoretically and practically. That way the class is a fine tuning exercise. The all access pass is fine. The most important thing is to grab a book and read it, or grab a lab book and do it. Hundreds of hours on your own with no CBTs or other distractions. A lot of people buy all the training products and attend a bootcamp. They fail because they did not put the long hours in working regularly and alone for an extended period of time. When you boil it down, providing you get that right you can pass the lab with relatively little. On the other hand if you get it wrong, all the bells and whistles and brilliant instructors wont help you. Before majorly investing, get to Christmas and reflect on how well you have done on regular studying.

NOC-Ninja

Mrock4 wrote: »

You're forgetting the key ingredient to success. Caffeine. Budget accordingly!

Thanks. i have a lot of tea and I will have to get some energy drink. lol
Is my budget incorrect? Any advice?

NOC-Ninja

Turgon wrote: »

If you are going to do a bootcamp I recommend you do it long after you have cleared the written and amassed sufficient lab prep hours so you really do have a solid foundation both theoretically and practically. That way the class is a fine tuning exercise. The all access pass is fine. The most important thing is to grab a book and read it, or grab a lab book and do it. Hundreds of hours on your own with no CBTs or other distractions. A lot of people buy all the training products and attend a bootcamp. They fail because they did not put the long hours in working regularly and alone for an extended period of time. When you boil it down, providing you get that right you can pass the lab with relatively little. On the other hand if you get it wrong, all the bells and whistles and brilliant instructors wont help you. Before majorly investing, get to Christmas and reflect on how well you have done on regular studying.

I'm giving myself atleast 6-8 months on studying the written test. There's just so much to read and understand again.

The Lab prep hours will overlap my written test so that I dont need to rush so much on my lab hours. I'm going to spend atleast 1 year to finish up my lab hours before taking the lab test. My plan is to take the bootcamp a month or 2 monts before taking the Narbik lab test. I'm aware that the average CCIE takes atleast 1600 hours of lab time to pass the test.

I can reflect all I want in Christmas. However, I made up my mind that I will never stop or look back no matter what happens.

Turgon

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I'm giving myself atleast 6-8 months on studying the written test. There's just so much to read and understand again.

The Lab prep hours will overlap my written test so that I dont need to rush so much on my lab hours. I'm going to spend atleast 1 year to finish up my lab hours before taking the lab test. My plan is to take the bootcamp a month or 2 monts before taking the Narbik lab test. I'm aware that the average CCIE takes atleast 1600 hours of lab time to pass the test.

I can reflect all I want in Christmas. However, I made up my mind that I will never stop or look back no matter what happens.

I think you will be fine if you can keep at it. Keeping at it is what gets people there.

Mrock4

jason_lunde wrote: »

Whoa Crap!! Mrock sighting. I thought you had died man...wtf happened to you? life?

Yep! Back on track now..life is good!