Why negative feedback to ccna and no experience?

luberguilarte

Hell with the guys that have experience and a lot of certs and degrees . Guys for you who dont have experience but are putting hopes on the ccna , yes is true we have no experience but that alone say how capable we are to learn because we have love for this , at the end it have value to us.
For the guys with experience , just because you have experience you have to make our life so worry saying you need 5 years experience and bla bla bla , I am sure someone will notice our interest in the industry and will give us a chance even as an internship( none pay, I don't care ) , I know many of you guys with experience are trying to guide us to the best path but some just put everything so difficult that make a lot of us just scare and disappointed , I know no matter how much of you guys know, you did not born knowing everything in this field so give me a brake and stop with your bull crap . Courage guys and we will get to where our dreams want with hard work.
Thanks

Forsaken_GA

Guessing English is not your first language.

Speaking as one of those mean 'ol Betrayer of Hope types - I've interviewed far too many CCNA's with no experience in networking on their resume, and found every single one of them lacking in basic knowledge that the CCNA tests for. See that enough, and the only reason you agree to the interview is so you can shuffle them off in 5 minutes and use the rest of the scheduled time for a long lunch.

luberguilarte

Yes I am cuban I am just learning your language now for the past 4 months .
thanks

dead_p00l

I tend to agree with Forsaken_GA and I also happen to be one of those that doesn't put much stock in certs without experience. I've seen it happen time and again where HR or someone who doesn't know better get's dazzled by certifications and hires someone with no experience. 95% of the time that this happens I end up spending the next 6-12 months training someone on things that according to their certs they should already know how to do. Entry level certs are usually a good way to get your foot in the door for an interview but in this field and in my honest opinion nothing beats experience. That being said during your studies to obtain certifications you're definitely(hopefully) learning and this along with hopefully being able to land an entry level gig somewhere will put you on a pretty good path. Good luck

healthyboy

good point, i bet interest and passion and how bad u want something will go a longer way than experience, its not fair how some ppl say u need 5 years of exp blah blah its not good,

luberguilarte

dead_p00l I agree with you , my case is this , I am learning my **** with labs, reading ect most of the day and putting time into this like is my last choice in life , I know by heart the operation of arp , dns , dhcp , telnet , rip , ospf , eigrp , and many more covert in the ccna ,I am doing it the right way , so I guest someone will give me an opportunity to get start it somewhere , because I seen many cases where people did not have any experience and now they are in a different boat and very happy and they start just like me.
Thanks u very much for your comment.

Iristheangel

I would say that there are a large amount of CCNA's without experience out there that just braindumped the thing or learned just enough to pass the test only to have their knowledge fade slowly after they passed. Having a certification does not make you an expert and doesn't certify that you are knowledgeable enough to do the job. My company has had many people come in for interview with a CCNA or even a CCNP but couldn't even explain what NAT was or explain when it would be used. Without consistent hands-on experience, knowledge fades. It happened to me after I received my MCSE and it happens to a lot of people after they get their CCNAs

That being said, I think the majority of the people on this forum are supportive and give you advice to become successful. No one is saying not to chase your dreams, but to be realistic: You aren't going to start as a network engineer at 80-100K a year with just a CCNA. Almost all of us had to start out with something entry level and far below CCNA-level work only to work our way up. Adjust your expectations accordingly.

jamesleecoleman

Having job experience helps prove that someone knows what they are doing and that they are reliable.

There are some people on these forums that have had trouble getting a job just because they didn't meet the requirements. I'm one of them along with others that have applied to positions that we think that we could do. Some of us got a chance and some of us didnt. Some of us have tried for months and never got the chance.

You can complain but just don't give up. You'll get somewhere.

matt333

agree with all above ^^.. Ive had a few interviews that I have been GRILLED because I have my CCNA, but I know the material so I was fine. Also I am noticing that employer like to talk about what they know. for example I would talk about networking stuff (2min convo), then get hit with 30mins about firewalls and how they work, statefull vs stateless, ports.. when your applying make sure you have a good understanding of a lot of different things. the employer is going to pick the subject, and dont BS your way through something. "I'm not very familiar with ___" it will save you from sounding stupid.

luberguilarte

Iristheangel , thaks for your reply , my interest for now is not financial but enhance my skills , and how can I learn without putting what I learn without anyone giving me an opportunity ?

Guys is not an esay road but with love and dedication have to be a way.

Iristheangel

That's a good question, luber. A lot of people have recommended internships, volunteering, temp agencies, networking events, etc. I would place a heavy emphasis on networking events, but all the above solutions are viable. If you go to local meetups, conferences, and places to socialize with like-minded people, you might find opportunities you never expected. I.e. I was at a security conference in Vegas last year and met CEO of security company who offered me a entry level job doing basic networking and firewall work at a VERY good salary. I also met a CIO of another company at another event who has given me several work opportunities which has built up my resume and given me valuable experience.

My best advice is this: Don't just submit your resume, interview, and pray. Get out there. Socialize. Make yourself noticeable.

luberguilarte

Iristheangel , thank you very much for your time , after I am done with my icnd2 I will go to every NOC company in NYC and there is a lot of them , someone have to at lease give me a shot if not then I will go to ccnp and try to get notice somehow.
Thanks again.

docrice

The reason why experience matters so much is because regardless of how well you understand the material in the CCNA, it does not mean you know how to handle the multitude of variables inherent in typical working environments that are vendor-diverse with less-than-ideal implementations. In living networks, things aren't always done by the book for a reason. They might not necessarily be sound technical justifications, but many times it's because the requirements of the business dictates that things are done in a short-cut or non-textbook fashion. Most networks are messy, built up of years of undocumented cabling, incorrect interface descriptions, attempted compatibilities between multiple vendor equipment trying to perform the same protocol, and bad design choices made through incompetence as well as budgetary reasons.

When you inherit the operation and management of an existing network, you'll inevitably run into these and while questionable design decisions might have made sense in years past, today's requirements may be different and projects may be underway to shift things to accommodate. Lots of things may be in motion in parallel. It's not always for the faint of heart.

It's far too common for newly-minted certified employees to make a lot of assumptions based on vendor "best practices" which isn't always the case in the real world. And without having the insight / foresight to understand this, networks break. When networks break, servers break. And that potentially introduces significant downtime which costs the organization lost revenue and a black eye for the IT department. Reputation and political points are a big deal in most organizations.

So to be blunt, this is why gaining an entry-level position can be difficult at times unless you have people who can vouch for you. And even then, it's wise to not provide a lot of access to new employees unless they've gained the trust of the existing team through demonstrated performance and other personal tangibles, including attitude. There's too much risk to trust certifications as a real-world qualifier.

I hold many certifications and I'll say right up-front that they only prove that I (or someone claiming my name) walked into a test center and managed to pass a multiple-choice test through either an understanding of the material, cheating, or random-guesses and luck. Whenever I interview candidates, I'll make note of listed certifications as claims but I'll ask questions based on scenarios that encompass a larger view of a network environment puzzle. Many times certifications don't teach the awareness of these because the subject area covered is more narrow. Everything eventually ties together - networks, servers, clients, applications, data. Break one link in the chain and it becomes a business disruption.

Keep trying long enough, and someone somewhere will eventually give you a shot. If you have to volunteer or do your own consulting work to small businesses, do it. That alone would be impressive on a resume and would be a good thing in the eyes of a hiring manager. But you have to understand that experience as a much-preferred requirement is there for a reason. We ("the experienced people") have been bitten hard in the past and thus the reason for our skepticism on certifications as a qualifier. Attained certifications in the IT world is a potential indicator, not a guarantee of competency.

The Shadow

@docrice: That is one of the VERY best posts that I've ever read on this site.

Valsacar

If you've just been studying English for about 4 months I'm pretty impressed.

The only thing I have to add to everyone above is, get off that site that starts with a 9 (it was blocked in your post, and for good reason). That's not studying concepts, that's memorizing test questions. As Iris said, braindumps are bad.

Forsaken_GA

healthyboy wrote: »

good point, i bet interest and passion and how bad u want something will go a longer way than experience, its not fair how some ppl say u need 5 years of exp blah blah its not good,

Desire is certainly good, and so is wanting it. But no amount of desire or and passion is going to get your paws on my pipes until you can show me that you're up to snuff. The cost of downtime is just too high these days, high enough that it doesn't matter how good of a game you talk, or how much you make someone like you.

The hard part that most people are never able to figure out is how to demonstrate you've got skills without having any experience. It's not impossible, it just ain't easy.

The problem I have with alot of folks who bring up threads like these (and I apologize in advance, because I'm going to be blunt, and whenever I do that, it's pretty much guaranteed that I'm going to piss someone off) and others that are like 'I did this cert, and this cert, and I did everything right! WHY CAN'T I GET A JOB! THIS FIELD SUCKS!' and so on, the only thing I think is that 'yeah, they sound like they should be Occupying something'. As a staunch fiscal conservative, I think anyone who thinks it's a good idea to take out massive amounts of student loans in a major which isn't likely to actually generate enough money to repay those loans has questionable judgement. Sitting in a park bitching about following all the rules and getting gyped because the rich people are big meanies just confirms it.

In that same vein, anyone who does such and such certification and immediately expects to come out of it and grab a super awesome gig just because they followed 'the plan' is a bloody moron. There is no silver bullet. There is no recipe. If you have to post on a forum like this asking questions like 'how do I get a job with a CCNA?' or 'hey guys, what certs should I get to make lots of money? I hear Cisco is good!' (I am obviously paraphrasing and mocking, but hey, I am kind of a dick), the simple answer is you don't, with the emphasis on you. If you can't do your own research on what certification path is right for you, and you're going to be lazy enough to ping the broadcast instead, you lack the decision making skills and critical thinking abilities to be a good network engineer (and that's what I care about, if you're interested in being a bad network engineer, you certainly don't need my help). If you can't figure out a way to employ your newly acquired skills, you lack ingenuity and the ability to pull the bits and pieces together into something cohesive and useful.

This is not a passive profession. You do not just show up, take some tests, raise your hand and get a well paying job. When I ask an interviewee what in gods name makes them think they're qualified to lay hands on my network, and the only defense they can must is 'I passed the CCNA', you've just slit your own throat. I want to hear about how you're the most badass network engineer at the level you currently peform at. I want to hear that you're aware of what you don't know, and then I want to hear detailed steps about what you're doing to make sure you know what you don't know. And then when you've talked up the good game, and I ask you what the infinite metric is for RIP, I WANT YOU TO GIVE ME THE RIGHT BLOODY ANSWER! When I ask you what trunking protocol tags every single frame, I want the right answer. When I ask you to name me three LSA types, I want a correct answer. When I ask you to design me a simple one area OSPF network, and then ask you to justify the network types you've chosen, I want you to be able to do so. If you can't answer a scenario question I ask because it's not something covered in a Cisco Press book, I do not want you on my team.

luberguilarte

forsaken_GA , just to let you know , I am new into this but I have answers for your questions , I hope they will ask me that in an interview , I'll take everything everyone say with me . thanks fosaken_GA.
Peace and Love.

ChooseLife

luberguilarte@gmail.com wrote: »

...just because you have experience you have to make our life so worry saying you need 5 years experience and bla bla bla...

I have a feeling you are looking at and applying to jobs that are above your level. Considering you're in NY, which arguably has the biggest job market in the States, there must be jobs matching your level of skills and experience. You just need to find them.

Look, Luber, it is not personal. No one out there (with few exceptions) is trying to make your (i.e. job candidate's) life difficult or miserable.

When we put up a job opening requiring certain work experience, that means we want someone with that amount of work experience. It does not matter if someone meets other prerequisites, the work experience is still a requirement, one that cannot be replaced by certifications or book knowledge.

This does not mean you should give up or be angry at those who do not accept your application if it does not match their requirements. What it does mean is that you should apply to jobs that correspond to your level of experience and skills.

Good luck with your job search.
You're right that none of us were born with the knowledge and experience, but we've made it into the industry. Some others did not and you probably won't find them on this forum. People here are wise and are trying to help, so consider advice given on this board, it mostly comes from people who are either successful or on their way to success.

luberguilarte

chooseLife Thank you for your input ,I have not yet apply for any jobs , is just that what I always read not just here but everywhere , some people tell me yes that if I apply to enough jobs someone will give me the opportunity but other put me down because I am just starting with the ccna and always tell me ' haa because you will have a ccna you think you will have a chance ' , as you see the ccna for someone with no experience in networking and self studying could be very hard , and I have pass that and doing pretty good by myself and love the material and the labs my best part of study. I had take every single comments very serious in this post and yours I really appreciated .Thanks again.
Peace and Love.

YuckTheFankees

I have viewed this forum for a long time and I really believe the majority of user's give positive feedback regarding newbie's getting the CCNA without experience.So do not let the negative comments mess with your head.

Yes passing the CCNA without experience shows employers you have the dedication/heart to learn networking but by no means are you qualified to touch a companies network. I have read tons of networking books and also have the BOSON NetSim, but once I started my 1st networking job..I quickly realized why everyone talks about "EXPERIENCE!". Yes I knew how to configure a couple protocols, use a bunch of show commands, and all the other stuff the CCNA's teaches you but no one is going to ask straight forward questions like "Hey Yuck, which show command do you use to view the IP address" or "hey, Yuck..can you telnet into this IP address and set the clock rate to 64000"..like the CCNA test. It's more like "hey yuck, the core switch02 is down, what the hell is wrong with it, fix it now!". My point is, yes you will learn a great deal from the CCNA but once you start getting questions about a network that aren't so straight forward, it gets a lot harder at first.

I think an individual with a CCNA + no experience would be well suited for a junior/mid NOC position. I only say this from experience. It was only a year ago when I became so fed up with the financial industry, I decided to purse computers/networking. I would study off and on but I never applied for jobs. I believe it was 2 AM the night after Labor day when I finally decided to buckle down and get my first I.T. job. I knew most likely I would need to take a paycut but I didn't care, working in a field that you enjoy makes up for it. I applied to about 30-50 companies (without any I.T. experience or certifications) but I wrote a paragraph describing my goals to obtain Linux+ and Network+ within the email I sent to the companies. The next day I received two calls, #1 NOC for a start-up company and #2 help desk for large corporation. By the end of the week, I received a job offer from the start-up company but I took a 30% cut in pay + it was an hour away. After 6 months of experience, plus gaining a few more certifications, I was able to land another NOC position paying twice the amount of money, plus a ton of room to grow. The HR rep told me the only reason I was getting an interview was because of my certifications but I would need to prove in the interview that my networking knowledge makes up for my lack of experience. I nailed the technical interview, and BAM here I am. I had the desire to self study, and I was also LUCKY enough to have 2 companies take a chance on me. You can gain every certification in the world but with no experience, the biggest obstacle is having a company take a chance on you.

I hope my story helped, good luck and pass the CCNA already !

MrBishop

I have to agree with pretty much everything said here and should be taken as constructive criticism. Actually, people telling you NO should make you fight even harder for your dreams. Obviously, nobody walked into their first job with experience, but to retain knowledge that employers seek, you must have more than just a degree and certifications. Once, you have a few years of experience under your belt, employers will consider you a more viable candidate. Just do you and everything will work itself out!

WafflesAndRootbeer

Networking talent has to be developed and nurtured with on the job training and labs. Few companies are willing to do that anymore outside of Cisco and various partners who are wise enough to remember how things were done back in the day. The reason why so many networking jobs are hard to fill is that nobody really does that anymore and it has given companies unrealistic expectations as to what they can get from the hiring pool, which is why a lot of people leave networking after they get their CCNA. Hell, you sign up for Cisco training these days and most of the time it's some lame ass sim software course that you could have done yourself in your home for 1/10th the cost. It wasn't like that back in the day.

shodown

If you do get your cert with no experience, that means you must keep practicing everyday. Not even move onto the next cert as that is more knowledge you have to learn. If you get your CCNA, and are looking for a Cisco job you must continue to lab a few times a week until you find a job. It also means that you have to step beyond the packet tracer software and look into possibly your own hardware lab where you make your own cables, have to load IOS, plug in wireshark and really learn what it is all about. You have to continue to work on your skills way beyond the test. I got my CCNP Voice a few months back and I've decided to go through it again and its been so helpful, and guess what after that? I will be doing the regular CCNP over again.

MrBishop

shodown, is giving some good advice...if you're not working now, you should continue to find resources to study. I prefer looking for new material than going over the same vendor material.

NetworkingStudent

I am seeking an entry level help desk or support role, and I can tell you that certifications aren’t a golden ticket for a job.
If you what a job you need to think like an employer..How can you demonstrate value?

You have a CCNA,I hear that’s a hard cert to obtain, however; there are a lot of college grads and other IT pros that have the CCNA. You need to differentiate yourself from the others. You need to find out what makes you different. Also, it’s great you study and did some labs from a book, but did you set up or troubleshoot any networks? If not I recommend that you look for opportunities to do that.

Remember..

1. Hiring is a financial decision for any company, because this person will have access to computer systems and networks. Also, the new hire’s actions could impact or impede the business. This could be devastating for company whose main business or product is IT related.

2. Companies hire for fit as well as for technical skills.

3. You need to start looking at entry level jobs like help desk/support roles. The networking jobs that you want require more advance skills.

4. A degree or certification just shows that you understand the technology or product, but it doesn’t substitute or replace experience.

5. Is your cover letter and resume 100% error free? If it’s not it will probably go in the “don’t contact pile”

6. Attitude is everything, if you have a bad attitude it will derail your job search.


Note-If you really want a job I suggest you take English as a 2nd language course, along with your CCNA.

NOC-Ninja

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

When I ask you to name me three LSA types, I want a correct answer. .

LSA types comes out at CCNP. He's only a CCNA.

NOC-Ninja

Don't get butt hurt on criticism. Its a part of this world. Without it, we wont change for the best.

I dont know if you **** it but one of the guys that posted here said you posted a site that you were going which has the test questions in it. The truth is there's a lot of guys that braindump or papercert. I dont really care what you do but if I and the business will suffer because you really dont know anything then we have a problem. This is why some people required 5 years experience. Those guys that have 5 yrs experience proved that they can support a production network. IMO 5 years is overkill and I dont care in 5 years experience crap since I bump into network guys that have more than 5 years experience but are VERY lazy and dumb. Are they gonna to be automatically hired? No. I will make sure they go through the same grill questions that I went through because my butt is in the line.

The bad part is, guys that are in Networks are tired of showing them the ropes. Its bad enough to work with people that got hired by default, by working their for 5 years in desktop and they got promoted to networks to give them a chance but never excel, guys that dont really know anything about networks, guys that have CCNA and think their the best shot but dont want to learn more.

The good thing is, you are in the right forum and you have that fire to succeed. Dont stop learning. Lab some more. Buy some gears and get some hands on time.

Did you use GNS3 or packet tracer for ccna? If you did then thats not enough. You need hands on experience on hardwares. Get some cheap routers and switches.

bermovick

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

If you can't answer a scenario question I ask because it's not something covered in a Cisco Press book, I do not want you on my team.

Attitudes like this, while understandable, or a little disheartening. That you might be asked for something completely outside of your current realm of knowledge - or what (kindof) should be, with the expectations that just because you have your ccna, you should know mpls and how atm works.

I dunno - maybe my viewpoints/expectations of what my certs should give me aren't the norm - maybe too many people get all self-entitled from having the certs, but I haven't gone into any interview with the attitude that my ccna/ccnp means you should let me work in your core unsupervised - any more than I'd go with a new BA in architecture and go in expecting to be allowed to design a new skyscraper myself -- but I certainly hope to be able to work in a capacity that lets me use the pieces I've learned and start putting the tiny pieces of knowledge together to start seeing the big picture, and getting the real-world practical experience to eventually reach that point (although I doubt anyone ever single-handedly designs a skyscraper haha)

I actually have this argument with another tech at work all the time. He's all "You have your ccnp so you should know all this this better than I even though you're new - while I've been here 4 years working with the actual network". And I don't even know how to reply because it's just so ... wrong.

Crap; I'm not even sure how to answer your 'which trunking protocol tags every frame' question -- I mean ISL doesn't really tag frames, it encapsulates them -- while dot1q doesn't tag every frame (by default), because the native vlan doesn't get tagged. Neither is really correct

kurosaki00

Because you dont have experience
CCNA, yes congratulations you have a lot textbook knowledge
what about troubleshooting skills?
Thats something that is developed with the job
Yes you practice troubleshooting in a lab, but is never the same when you have users/end clients.
Remember the Layer 7 is the one that makes the most error and mess things up! (the piece behind the computer).

I do think entry level jobs shouldnt require 2 yrs of experience, but after that I do think experience should be required for job positions.

Akaricloud

bermovick wrote: »

Attitudes like this, while understandable, or a little disheartening. That you might be asked for something completely outside of your current realm of knowledge - or what (kindof) should be, with the expectations that just because you have your ccna, you should know mpls and how atm works.

That's the usual difference between the textbook CCNA and the CCNA with experience. If you were interviewing two candidates, one that could answer scenario questions and one that couldn't, which would you want to hire?

-The fact is that companies want to hire the more knowledgeable person and that is almost always going to be the one with experience. They're not picking one over the other because of their experience but rather they're picking the more knowledgeable one. If you can prove you know what you're doing then neither the experience nor CCNA really matter at all.

DigitalZeroOne

I'm not directing this at the OP, I'm stating my opinion on new IT workers. Obviously everything is faster nowadays, information is instant, even microwaves cook your food faster than before, one problem that people are going to have is patience. It takes time to get your first IT job; the first problem is that we are in a bad economy, so you're competing with people that have experience, they may also have a degree and certifications. If you're hiring someone, you only have so much time to find the person who can do the job, so your listing may ask for x number of years experience, it may ask for a 4-year degree, you want to bring someone in and have them contributing as soon as possible. With that being said, people who have no or little experience are going to get passed over.

What needs to happen is perseverance for something that you want, you just keep applying, you meet new people, you take anything that helps you to get where you need to go, and you grow your skillset everyday, whether it's reading, or practicing on your home lab. It may take being in something that you don't want for a year or longer, but you keep going. Too many people expect an instant job when they graduate college, or attain a new certification, but regardless of how things were, you have to change with how things are.

I actually look at IT the same as some people look at Doctors or Lawyers, some people have a passion for helping the sick, some people have a passion to ensure a fair trial for everyone, IT people should have a passion for technology. I know some people can "fall" into some careers, but the truly passionate, enjoy for life, it's not just a paycheck. Trying not to sound like the Father that walked 5 miles in the snow to school, but I worked phone support at a call center for years, I also performed desktop support at another organization for years, I have been a Sys Admin for over 10 years, but it took years of questions like "how do I change my wallpaper?", or even cleaning the crud out of the mouse rollers because people didn't know why their mouse was fidgety.

To this day, I still learn new things, granted it's easier to learn those new things, but I know that I will never be at the top of my IT game, because when I think I am, the next version will come out, and I'm excited to learn the new version. Keep going for what you want, a door will open.