Why negative feedback to ccna and no experience?

luberguilarte

OK I understand all of you ,but answer me something , how did you guys were hired the very first time? I really would like to know this.
Thanks again great people.

Akaricloud

I obtained my first Desktop Support position with no experience or certifications by demonstrating my knowledge and showing how I could create value for the company.

Certifications are great for getting past the initial HR screening but they don't get you the job. Your knowledge, attitude and how well you convey them in an interview are what really count.

ChooseLife

luberguilarte@gmail.com wrote: »

OK I understand all of you ,but answer me something , how did you guys were hired the very first time? I really would like to know this.

By applying to entry-level positions that did not state they require 5+, 3+, or even 1+ years of experience. There were, are, and always will be plenty of those.

petedude

Let me bounce an opinion off people here. . .

The only place I'd think a CCNA would be useful without experience would be if you're already in IT, and want to move up into infrastructure/network management. Having that cert current would demonstrate you're at least conversant in the technologies in question.

What do you guys think?

WafflesAndRootbeer

petedude wrote: »

Let me bounce an opinion off people here. . .

The only place I'd think a CCNA would be useful without experience would be if you're already in IT, and want to move up into infrastructure/network management. Having that cert current would demonstrate you're at least conversant in the technologies in question.

What do you guys think?

Valid, assuming you got it using a lab and hardware, but you're talking about a very idealized "what if" scenario that is not the norm. Ten years ago, you could certainly do what you suggest, as many did, but not so much these days.

MrBishop

I don't see many jobs that actually list entry level for a position. I suggest that you get at least a degree along with some basic level certifications. If you see a job that asks for 1 - 2 years of experience, I would suggest you apply for that job. Then sell your education as 1 year for every 2 years you completed. It's possible to get hired for positions even if it asks for years of experience. Now, if the job required 3, 4 or 5+ years and you have none, its gonna be a hard sell.

luberguilarte

I am pretty your that someone will give me a shot ( I dont care about money , work for free as long as it take me ) learning is what my pay should be now , in my life everything that I wanted no matter how hard it was always in the end had good ends and I dont think networking is goin to be any different , I think whatever you plan to do as long as you work very hard it will be reward it in the end , look ,for example, I speake english after 4 months studying very hard and I know my writting skills are very bad but I am getting there.
Thanks to you all.

dead_p00l

luberguilarte@gmail.com wrote: »

OK I understand all of you ,but answer me something , how did you guys were hired the very first time? I really would like to know this.
Thanks again great people.

I was actually in a MIS program in school at the time and managed to get a job at a local computer store building and repairing PC's. I worked my way up from there. Ive been working in this industry in some capacity for over 15 years now.

Forsaken_GA

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

LSA types comes out at CCNP. He's only a CCNA.

Do you really think it's reasonable for a CCNA to go do operational work without knowing at least what type 1 and type 2 LSA's are? I don't know about you, but the LSA types were covered when I did the CCNA, they just weren't expounded upon heavily.

alan2308

luberguilarte@gmail.com wrote: »

OK I understand all of you ,but answer me something , how did you guys were hired the very first time? I really would like to know this.
Thanks again great people.

I hit the market with a bachelors degree, a CCNA, and a real stretch for any kind of relevant experience (4 months as a computer lab aide at a college). I applied for 100 jobs easily, didn't get much more than a standard form letter email in response. Someone finally took a chance and called me back for a phone interview. You better believe that I was ready for it.

So basically, keep trying and be ready because sooner or later someone is going to give you a call.

MrBishop

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Do you really think it's reasonable for a CCNA to go do operational work without knowing at least what type 1 and type 2 LSA's are?

Don't you know there are different levels in tech support? In your company maybe you only have 1 tier, but in larger organizations they have 3 or more tiers for certain reasons. A CCNA isn't there for configuring a network, but is there to troubleshoot layer 1 or 2 networking networking issues at most. NOC technicians are very limited as to what commands they have access to from the command line. The router is pretty much locked down and the very basic commands such as ping, show controllers, sh ip route, sh log, sh ip int bri, etc, are given to tier 1 technicians. I believe that some hiring managers don't know exactly what questions they should be asking for the job.

MrBishop

I'll also tell you that if you want to get an entry level job...go on craigslist and post your resume. I mean, you will also need to sell yourself and ask for someone to give you a shot and breaking into the IT industry. This was actually how I got my first break and I only had a associates degree and CCNA at the time.

Don't be afraid to break the rules and post it on the job section of the site, because usually some recruiter will notice your resume before they take it down.

Forsaken_GA

MrBishop wrote: »

Don't you know there are different levels in tech support? In your company maybe you only have 1 tier, but in larger organizations they have 3 or more tiers for certain reasons. A CCNA isn't there for configuring a network, but is there to troubleshoot layer 1 or 2 networking networking issues at most.

Oh, obviously, I mean layer 1 and 2 is totally the entire focus of the CCNA. They just make you learn all the subnetting stuff because they felt like being dicks. Come on, think it through. A CCNA isn't expected to be a master of layer 3, but they are expected to have a good solid fundamental understanding of layer 3, and OSPF is one of those protocols. The LSA's that define the routes in a single area are a pretty damned fundamental to the protocol - no routing occurs without them. I'm not asking CCNA's to talk to me about the different type of stub areas, or authentication, or summarization. If you don't have a marginal clue how OSPF actually makes the routes appear in the routing table, and the job you're applying for happens to use OSPF, well, let's just say there are some who might view that as a tad bit of a flaw in your skillset.

NOC technicians are very limited as to what commands they have access to from the command line. The router is pretty much locked down and the very basic commands such as ping, show controllers, sh ip route, sh log, sh ip int bri, etc, are given to tier 1 technicians. I believe that some hiring managers don't know exactly what questions they should be asking for the job.

You do understand that there are CCNA's who actually do real network work, yes? Half the guys on my team only have a CCNA. They are not level 1 guys. CCNA does not automatically equate to NOC tech. I know it does in your head, but that's not the truth for all out here in the real world.

MrBishop

Entry level is the topic here, not people with years of experience. Like I posted, my first job was a NOC technician with a large company(worldwide networks), using OSPF & BGP. Calling all parts of the world, working with telecom companies like Orange, AT&T, & Verizon. No, I didn't need to know what the hell LSA's were when troubleshooting downed networks. It all depends on the job and the guy is talking about entry level positions. I don't known any company that is willing to allow someone with just a CCNA with no experience to have full access to a production router in the real world. I'm not referring to people who had years of networking experience and just finally getting around to getting Cisco certified.

Nobody in the room had access to configure routers and we had Tier I, II, & III working side by side. The only people that had full access where the CCIE's upstairs who would periodically allow people to configure an out of production router. Obviously, they gave you the commands necessary to configure it properly.

luberguilarte

Mrbisho I really thank you very much for you to really understand my point , Forsaken_GA is just one of those full of them self because he have 1000 years of experience and want to keep things hard for new guys , I hope Forsaken_GA that you dont give your motivation like that to your friends about how life really is.
God bless everyone.

NightShade1

Well if you did really study and not used braindump to pass its okay
the CCNA gave me the oportunity to work with no experience yeah working with network with no experience on a carrier... they put me some test and asked me stuff to see if i really know the basics and well i asnwered everything correctly so well all cool

luberguilarte

You see, one cool and refreshing post . And yes I am studying without using none of those braindumps , doing my labs everyday and spending more than 8 hours per day because right now I have the time, reading a chapter per day just to make sure I know it well , then I ask questions myself about what I read or did in the labs and answer them the best technical way I can. That way it come natural when the time comes when someone ask me what's this and what's that.
Thank you NightShade1.

Forsaken_GA

MrBishop wrote: »

It all depends on the job and the guy is talking about entry level positions. I don't known any company that is willing to allow someone with just a CCNA with no experience to have full access to a production router in the real world. I'm not referring to people who had years of networking experience and just finally getting around to getting Cisco certified.

Nobody in the room had access to configure routers and we had Tier I, II, & III working side by side. The only people that had full access where the CCIE's upstairs who would periodically allow people to configure an out of production router. Obviously, they gave you the commands necessary to configure it properly.

Ok, and that's your particular experience with your particular company.

Here, our NOC techs (yes, even the level 1 guys) do have (limited) configuration access, and are expected to do so as part of their regular jobs. As we use OSPF as our primary internal routing protocol, they are expected to be versed in the fundamentals of it, along with RIP, which we use with our commercial customers. They don't do heavy amounts of configuration, but we trust them to do things like turn ports up and down on the live network, and handle basic maintenance needs, like software upgrades, linecard failovers and replacements, etc. We have pretty high expectations of our 'entry level' folks.

shodown

High expectations are shocking considering who u work for:D.

Forsaken_GA

luberguilarte wrote: »

Mrbisho I really thank you very much for you to really understand my point , Forsaken_GA is just one of those full of them self because he have 1000 years of experience and want to keep things hard for new guys , I hope Forsaken_GA that you dont give your motivation like that to your friends about how life really is.
God bless everyone.

I speak to people in real life how I communicate in writing. I am blunt and honest. I take pride in my work, and I expect others to rise to my level, I'm not coming down to theirs. I got to where I am through alot of hardwork. I didn't have a patron that greased the way into the network world for me. I did my time as a help desk, as an inventory monkey for a Cisco reseller, and a few other non-network positions before I found my opening.

I am not one of the gatekeepers of cool. I do not want to keep all the work to myself because I need to prop up my fragile ego as the Network God. I *want* people that can do this type of work. I want peers. I want people I can sit down with, start talking about a subject within the field, and the conversation flows as naturally as if we were discussing a football game. I want to work with folks that can point out when I'm having a moment of stupid, or when one of my premises are flawed. I want to work with people who can teach me something I didn't know, or teach me a better way of doing something I did know.

I do not want minions who need their hands held and need to be spoonfed information little bits at a time because they can't handle the influx of information they need to know to do things right. I do not want mendicants. I am sick of cleaning up after well intentioned newbs who, if they put a tenth of the effort into their career as they did their gaming, they'd be top notch engineers.

Now, you may very well turn out to be one of the kinds of folk that I like to work with, but the weight of experience says that's very unlikely.

MrBishop

Well, I'm all for getting entry level techs to do more in the working environment but most companies don't give that kind trust to less experienced guys/girls. When companies have $100,000's of dollars on the line when a critical site goes down....then don't want level 1 techs being the primary cause because they want to run a debug command on a production network.

Forsaken_GA

shodown wrote: »

High expectations are shocking considering who u work for:D.

Yeah, I know. Our customer service folks may leave something to be desired, but our operations team is actually pretty damn good. Honestly, the majority of our problems come from the contractors we employ to work in the headends, or from factors out of our control (we have many incidents of vandalism, and it seems like there's *always* some fool with a backhoe causing problems somewhere....)

NavyIT

After reading this I had to post to let everyone know how helpful some of this information is. I took a different route and joined the Navy as an IT. Now when I get out in a year I'll have 5 years of work experience, a security clearance and several certs (hopefully CCNP Security soon). Looking back I don't think I could have taken a better path for myself personally and professionally. Hopefully landing a job when I get out comes a bit easier.

luberguilarte

MrBishop what do you think I should do ? Jump to ccnp or take an A+ or maybe microsoft , find an intern ? As I say I dont care how long it take me I just want one opportunity to start somewhere ( money is not my interest now) , I really want to do this for my life.

MrBishop

luberguilarte wrote: »

MrBishop what do you think I should do ? Jump to ccnp or take an A+ or maybe microsoft , find an intern ?

I have a A+ and it really never did much for me except teach me how to build my own PC and to help friends and family with their problems. I can't tell you what road you should take because I threw away a good opportunity to gain a lot of experience to pursue my education, which I feel was the best decision for me. Everyone, has their own agenda and you must decide what is right for you and your family.(if applicable).

Weigh out the pros and cons... Work 5 years making x or get a degree and certified and make that x in 2 or 3?

MrBishop

NavyIT wrote: »

After reading this I had to post to let everyone know how helpful some of this information is. I took a different route and joined the Navy as an IT. Now when I get out in a year I'll have 5 years of work experience, a security clearance and several certs (hopefully CCNP Security soon). Looking back I don't think I could have taken a better path for myself personally and professionally. Hopefully landing a job when I get out comes a bit easier.

I feel your in a perfect position to come out and hit the ground running with the kind of experience, certification and holding a security clearance.

killuah72

If you are looking for motivation then watch Thank God It's Monday by Eric Thomas. Here's a good one.

TGIM SEASON 4 - STOP PLANNING - YouTube

MrBishop

Good stuff when you have a lot of nay sayer

Forsaken_GA

MrBishop wrote: »

Well, I'm all for getting entry level techs to do more in the working environment but most companies don't give that kind trust to less experienced guys/girls. When companies have $100,000's of dollars on the line when a critical site goes down....then don't want level 1 techs being the primary cause because they want to run a debug command on a production network.

Well, if you properly screen your people and set a bar for competence and are willing to wait on the right hire, you don't hire the idiots who are going to run unfiltered debugs on production and can entrust them to take on some basic work.

MrBishop

That's true....