CCNP 2010 updates

ColbyG

From the sound of it, you will be able to do BCMSN and not need to do SWITCH. So BCMSN + ROUTE + TSHOOT = CCNP.

maquesad

that sounds awesome... I guess that I will just carry on studying for the BCMSN. Do you suggest that I take the exam before January? What would u do in my place?

ColbyG

If I were working towards the CCNP right now I would do BCMSN or BSCI, either one should be safe. I would avoid ISCW and ONT.

maquesad

I will do that. I will carry on with BCMSN. Thanks for your time

ilcram19-2

i dont know about any one else here but i dont think having just ccnp training and knowing about cisco routing and cisco switching is enough to maintain an enteprise network, CCNP is not enough now days for what i've been thru ipsec vpns, gre over ipsec vpns, zone-based firewall, cbac firewall, qos, VoIP , Pixes i mean is just so much stuff that is not cover on ccnp, I'm now studing BGP and MPLS even though i dont work for an ISP but it can wide my knowldge on how we can use those technologies better or not use them at all, and thats not including the MS, linux, VMs, stuff man!!! we are becoming androids i really need to get a life, but im pretty sure a few here undertand my point, certifications help me to focus in one thing and not multiple things as my job requires

maquesad

ilcram19-2 wrote: »

i dont know about any one else here but i dont think having just ccnp training and knowing about cisco routing and cisco switching is enough to maintain an enteprise network, CCNP is not enough now days for what i've been thru ipsec vpns, gre over ipsec vpns, zone-based firewall, cbac firewall, qos, VoIP , Pixes i mean is just so much stuff that is not cover on ccnp, I'm now studing BGP and MPLS even though i dont work for an ISP but it can wide my knowldge on how we can use those technologies better or not use them at all, and thats not including the MS, linux, VMs, stuff man!!! we are becoming androids i really need to get a life, but im pretty sure a few here undertand my point, certifications help me to focus in one thing and not multiple things as my job requires

I really understand your point... but I guess that it will depend on your type of job... I mean a network is HUGE!! there is so many stuff... VoIP is a complete different world.... security, network desing... come on is so much stuff... i guess that depending on your job you can decide if you want to become an expert in one technology such as routing and switching or you can study all different aspects and get P degrees in voice and routing and security... if you are really awesome then you can get CCIEs in everything but probably you wont have a life hehehe... I guess that it just a personal decision... Personally, due to my job, I will try to get CCIE in routing and switching... that will probably take me a few years, then I will see if I move to voice or security

Cyanic

ilcram19-2 wrote: »

i dont know about any one else here but i dont think having just ccnp training and knowing about cisco routing and cisco switching is enough to maintain an enteprise network, CCNP is not enough now days for what i've been thru ipsec vpns, gre over ipsec vpns, zone-based firewall, cbac firewall, qos, VoIP , Pixes i mean is just so much stuff that is not cover on ccnp, I'm now studing BGP and MPLS even though i dont work for an ISP but it can wide my knowldge on how we can use those technologies better or not use them at all, and thats not including the MS, linux, VMs, stuff man!!! we are becoming androids i really need to get a life, but im pretty sure a few here undertand my point, certifications help me to focus in one thing and not multiple things as my job requires

The computing world is so large that you really need to pick an area and focus on that; very similar to a Medical Doctor. No one can be a master of all areas, and a good enterprise network will have a team to run it that is as diverse as the network itself.

If you try to master everything I hope you have an IQ of 200 and a photographic memory. For most, by the time you master the next area your knowledge from the previous is obsolete.

For me, having a social life is more important and I would rather be brewing then manipulating bits. I used to be a security guy, but a position opened up for me to be an analyst. I stopped focusing on security. I know I cant do it all.

Kaminsky

Is it likely they may change the minimum IOS on routers and switches ?

skwira001

I wonder if the tests will still be online. That's the biggest thing that helps me for Cisco tests is taking their chapter tests.

gbadman

Cyanic wrote: »

The computing world is so large that you really need to pick an area and focus on that; very similar to a Medical Doctor. No one can be a master of all areas, and a good enterprise network will have a team to run it that is as diverse as the network itself.

If you try to master everything I hope you have an IQ of 200 and a photographic memory. For most, by the time you master the next area your knowledge from the previous is obsolete.

For me, having a social life is more important and I would rather be brewing then manipulating bits. I used to be a security guy, but a position opened up for me to be an analyst. I stopped focusing on security. I know I cant do it all.

It is true that attempting to master everything is silly (not to mention impossible). However I think it's important to have a fairly broad base of knowledge (to at least entry level) in network admin and systems admin and have your area of specialisation on top of that. These days systems and network admin are becoming pretty complementary as the two fields converge. So you can't really run away from that if you wanna give yourself the best chance of being successful long-term.

chrisone

So i guess they made the CCNP easier? as this v5 had security, wireless, voice, QOS in it.

Now CCNP v6 only has routing/switching and troubleshooting?

What doesnt make any sense is, how in the world is CCNP going to prep you or guide you to the CCIE routing and switching now? CCIE v4 has security, QOS, and other topics from CCNP v5. Does cisco expect people to take ccna security, ccip/qos, and other exams for one to gain knowledge for the CCIE R&S now?

They just made the ccnp credibility and value less in my opinion Good thing im going for CCDP and CCIE next. I wont have to worry about my CCNP skills being belittled.

qplayed

Here's an announcement from the Cisco Learning Network Forum

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/8498

mikej412

chrisone wrote: »

Does cisco expect people to take ccna security, ccip/qos, and other exams for one to gain knowledge for the CCIE R&S now?

Well, it's either that or my idea -- add the QoS, MPLS, SRND, CVOICE exams to the (rumored) new CCNP exams (ROUTE SWITCH & TSHOOT). 7 exams didn't seem to discourage MCSEs in the past.

networker050184

chrisone wrote: »

So i guess they made the CCNP easier? as this v5 had security, wireless, voice, QOS in it.

Now CCNP v6 only has routing/switching and troubleshooting?

What doesnt make any sense is, how in the world is CCNP going to prep you or guide you to the CCIE routing and switching now? CCIE v4 has security, QOS, and other topics from CCNP v5. Does cisco expect people to take ccna security, ccip/qos, and other exams for one to gain knowledge for the CCIE R&S now?

They just made the ccnp credibility and value less in my opinion Good thing im going for CCDP and CCIE next. I wont have to worry about my CCNP skills being belittled.

I think you should just wait until the new course outlines come out before making assumptions about what topics will or will not be on the exams. You never know Cisco could include coverage of some of those areas in the new exams.

As far as whats expected to be learned for the CCIE, the same material to cover is still applicable regardless of what they do to the CCNP.

Forsaken_GA

chrisone wrote: »

They just made the ccnp credibility and value less in my opinion Good thing im going for CCDP and CCIE next. I wont have to worry about my CCNP skills being belittled.

Oh trust me, I can find alot to belittle in the CCDP

The changes to the CCIE program actually left me feeling vindicated, there was no chance I was going to be ready for v3 of the lab, so when the changes were announced, I felt pretty good about my decision to go for the CCIP prior to CCIE. Now I just wish I'd skipped design altogether and gone straight to CCIP.

shodown

Why do people think Certs make them a certain way. They just validate a certain level of knowledge. You don't have to get all these certs to make you know a job. If you have a skill make sure its on your resume, and you back it up in the job description. Its going to be okay people. Also I'm pumped about them adding a troubleshooting section. This seems to be a skill that a lot of people are lacking and its great to see people tested on it.

Forsaken_GA

Well, having your level of knowledge validated is kind of useful for employers, especially in the networking world. For alot of companies, the network is their life blood, and downtime can be measured in very large numbers of dollars per second.

It's also useful to have milestones towards your goal, and they provide that for self confidence as well as something to motivate you to learn and do better. You could just as easily ask why do athletic teams play for championships, there's really no point besides bragging rights and the knowledge of being at the top of your game

shodown

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Well, having your level of knowledge validated is kind of useful for employers, especially in the networking world. For alot of companies, the network is their life blood, and downtime can be measured in very large numbers of dollars per second.

It's also useful to have milestones towards your goal, and they provide that for self confidence as well as something to motivate you to learn and do better. You could just as easily ask why do athletic teams play for championships, there's really no point besides bragging rights and the knowledge of being at the top of your game

Interesting way you put it. I never thought of it that way.

qplayed

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Well, having your level of knowledge validated is kind of useful for employers, especially in the networking world. For alot of companies, the network is their life blood, and downtime can be measured in very large numbers of dollars per second.

It's also useful to have milestones towards your goal, and they provide that for self confidence as well as something to motivate you to learn and do better. You could just as easily ask why do athletic teams play for championships, there's really no point besides bragging rights and the knowledge of being at the top of your game

+1. After finally passing BSCI, I've found this new confidence in myself that is helping me push for the next exam. CCIE doesn't seem for far anymore, inch by inch, foot by foot.

Turgon

qplayed wrote: »

+1. After finally passing BSCI, I've found this new confidence in myself that is helping me push for the next exam. CCIE doesn't seem for far anymore, inch by inch, foot by foot.

Good for you. It's a game of inches. Keep playing it daily for a long time and you will get there!

Turgon

gbadman wrote: »

It is true that attempting to master everything is silly (not to mention impossible). However I think it's important to have a fairly broad base of knowledge (to at least entry level) in network admin and systems admin and have your area of specialisation on top of that. These days systems and network admin are becoming pretty complementary as the two fields converge. So you can't really run away from that if you wanna give yourself the best chance of being successful long-term.

This is really good advice. You actually want some general overall awareness and a specialism, always careful to position yourself nicely for the future. Trying to cover all bases is inefficient, will send you to the funny farm and isn't how corporations work anyway.

gbadman

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Oh trust me, I can find alot to belittle in the CCDP

The changes to the CCIE program actually left me feeling vindicated, there was no chance I was going to be ready for v3 of the lab, so when the changes were announced, I felt pretty good about my decision to go for the CCIP prior to CCIE. Now I just wish I'd skipped design altogether and gone straight to CCIP.

So what is it that makes you hold the DP in such low regard (at least relative to the IP)? Is it because of their relative relevance to your work role, or is it more than that? Though looking at your cert list, CCNP + CCDP + CCIP does look pretty awesome. Perhaps even more so than a CCIE R&S. Hardly something to regret in my humble opinion. Even if it's meant the loss of a year or so.

Forsaken_GA

Alot of the design philosophy is catered towards a pre-sales mentality. In my opinion, the track is designed to let you suggest the proper solutions to potential customers (with a heavy bent towards teaching the candidate that the Cisco solution is the right one) and is therefore geared more towards a sales engineer type position than a network engineer position. Probably not a bad thing to have if you eventually want to go into management, or will be doing some pre-sales work, but if you're a down in the trenches monkey, the CCDP isn't really all that valuable. It's very light on actual technical specifics, and alot of it is 'well duh!' stuff that you learn during CCNP. There's a few valuable chunks here and there, but that's not enough to really redeem the certification in my eyes.

The IP, otoh, gives you a better grounding in all aspects of QoS, a much better grounding in BGP (trust me, BSCI only scratches the surface), and tosses in MPLS, which goes into one of those technologies that Routing and Switching folks should know about that folks were talking about earlier. Apparently Cisco agreed, and that's why there's now MPLS on the R&S lab exam.

So for me, the major thing is that the CCIP is operationally relevant, whereas the DP is not. The DP is something I should have pursued later in my career, if I ever needed to make a move or become involved in projects where it was relevant. I guess if I ever do move into that realm, I'll already have it out of the way, but I wish I'd kept my momentum from finishing the CCNP going towards a mindset that was operationally relevant, I might be looking at taking the lab exam late this year/early 2011 instead of late 2011/early 2012. But I'll refrain from anything further, my rants in regards to the CCDA in particular and my nonchalance with the CCDP can be found in the Design forum

gbadman

Wow. Ok. Pretty comprehensive. It's certainly enlightened me a little bit more about the CCDP. And as you said, it's no bad thing that a path caters for the business need to technical solution side of things.

itdaddy

so now there is 5 exams for ccnp??? huh

Route
Switch
Tshoot
ONT
ISCW

5 exams vs 4 now?

ColbyG

itdaddy wrote: »

so now there is 5 exams for ccnp??? huh

Route
Switch
Tshoot
ONT
ISCW

5 exams vs 4 now?

No...

ROUTE
SWITCH
TSHOOT

Three instead of four now.

itdaddy

colby
thanks sorry I interpreted as ONT/ISCW not being replaced
meaing the TSHOOT was in addition to. So the ONT/ISCW is from something else now or is ONT/ISCW = TSHOOT?
thanks

ColbyG

No one is exactly clear on that. Some of the technologies will probably be added to the three exams, some my go away completely.

ConstantlyLearning

Read through the thread...



There should be an official announcement from cisco soon so just keep an eye on the news section for ccnp on cisco.com

itdaddy wrote: »

colby
thanks sorry I interpreted as ONT/ISCW not being replaced
meaing the TSHOOT was in addition to. So the ONT/ISCW is from something else now or is ONT/ISCW = TSHOOT?
thanks

NoisyRoom

ok, just answered my question from yesterday of whether we can still take the current exams, and not the new ones

just passed BCMSN (640-812) today!

the testing center said they haven't made any changes yet, but there's probably gonna be a 6 month period of the current version being in place. they said they haven't seen the new ROUTE/SWITCH/TRBLSHOOT exam

...and they did say that there'd be something from cisco near the end of this month.