Microsoft going back to the MCSE title for 2012 technology??? Private Cloud and SQL

Asif Dasl

tbgree00 wrote: »

Okay I'm not typically afraid of change but I'm confused. I have MCSE 2003 and was going to do the 70-649 and 70-647 to upgrade to the MCITP:EA. Should I hold off on those? I don't know what's going on someone please hold me

I dunno, I think it depends on your job and you. If you use 2008 I would go ahead with the upgrade, if you don't it still might might be better to at least do 70-649 & 70-646 - cause the upgrade from 2008 to 2012 will probably be shorter and the 2012 exams won't be out for a good while yet (not to mention whenever the MS Press books come out which took a little while with 2008 IIRC). They haven't released any more details, and I don't expect them to - the 2012 release candidate hasn't come out yet and we are still a few months away from 2012 RTM. We need more details - but I don't think there will be an upgrade path from 2003 to 2012.

lolermoler

cyberguypr wrote: »

lolermoler wrote:

Today, I'm just saddened to see Microsoft renewing the MCSE Course from Systems engineer to Solution Expert..& delaying its exams to the end of August..

I pursued this course so much! just so that I may get to use an Engineer Prefix with my name. and now this....

I want to ask you guys ff there are any other courses as such that it has the Tag 'Engineer' in it.

Please help with my frustration...I am a drop out from engineering and I wanted to get this course done....Can I take it now? or is it over?

Thank you..

Gotta ask, why the fixation with the "Engineer" term? Does your job require you to be an "engineer"?

It's just...Self indulgence I guess...I mean..I am a qualified .NET developer but my family thinks I'll be done with my bachelors in Engineering soon...and I personally feel bad calling myself an engineer when I know for a fact that I'm a dropout........So just for the sake of countering this feeling, and for the sake of tomorrow if someone finds out that I'm a dropout..and how embarrassing it would be to use an Engineer prefix with my name...i want to be able to say 'No, I might be a dropout..but I'm a Microsoft certified Engineer' *trollface*

I hope you get the point brother.....and I hope you have suggestions for me...Thank you.

JDMurray

lolermoler wrote: »

..and how embarrassing it would be to use an Engineer prefix with my name...i want to be able to say 'No, I might be a dropout..but I'm a Microsoft certified Engineer' *trollface*

Realize that the term "engineer" is very broad, like the terms "scientist," "technician," "programmer," and "developer." A "Microsoft engineer" isn't anything close in knowledge or occupation to a degreed engineer, but they both design and implement systems, which is what engineers do.

lolermoler

I do realize that, but I live in a third world country. I am pretty sure I'm 10 times better than the my qualified engineer friends from the university..at least practically. But still, for the sake of not feeling guilty calling myself an engineer infront of my family..

So could you tell me if I could still take this certification? Or is there any other that may help me in this case?

Thank you for your concern.

powerfool

Microsoft should have gone this route for the 2008 stuff to begin with... but it is a little late. I dunno. In the end, it is just a name.

N2IT

I think they will transition all of their larger scaled MCITP certifications to the MCSE brand standard or make it an easy transition. That's just me thinking though so that can get scary at times

After having a day to think about it I like they are at least correcting their mistakes. (Or attempting to)

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

I think they will transition all of their larger scaled MCITP certifications to the MCSE brand standard or make it an easy transition. That's just me thinking though so that can get scary at times

After having a day to think about it I like they are at least correcting their mistakes. (Or attempting to)

I think what happened was they made this change in haste, because of Microsoft needing to drop the word "engineer." After much time had passed, they decided to bring back the popular letters and just call it something else. The only mistake was that Microsoft needed to do this in the first place; is is evident by this very thread, all people care about are the letters M-C-S-E. What it stands for (according to the masses) is pretty much irrelevant.

chopsticks

I have to adjust my study plan slightly with this new change that is happening.

ASUSTeK

All these changes is quickly giving me a headache. This sucks, who did Microsoft consult with before making these changes. Certainly not thier own certified individuals. Recertification after 3 years. WHAT THE HECK!?! They had better reduce the cost of thier exams or i am going to be demanding a raise because updating these certs is going to cost us. I dont want to hear anything about letting my employer pay for it because its not only a money problem but also time. What about the average person who has Microsoft + Cisco + Any other major certs. Soon we will have no time to ourselves trying to keeping up. SCREW THIS MY HEAD HURTS!

N2IT

This won't make me popular, but I like the fact they are forcing a 3 year cap. I believe all certifications should be ISO 17024 compliant. This will remove the expired certifications and create more value with the members who have the active certifications. If you don't need it, then there is no need to get certified in it anymore. If you do need it you will recertify in it while others won't. This will give you an additional advantage applying for jobs and using your certifications as leverage. The days of alphabet soup are going to be harder and harder to keep up with. Thank God for that! This certification monster has been so devalued by everybody and their brother getting every cert known to man, just to do it.

Cisco has it right and now Microsoft is trying to get there. CE is a start, but I think recertfying is the best way to handle this. Having 1-2 certifications tactifully placed and aligned to your skillsets is where this model is taking us. Some will mention the financial strategy behind this and I agree that element does exist.

I believe a residual effect will be employers in the future will be asking for less and less certifications. Since less people will have a lesser amount of them on average, this will foster a work force who doesn't have to consistently spend money to provide their knowledge in a particular skill set via certifications.

This doesn't condone or imply that people should stop learning.

amplify

I am currently studying for 70-640 and had been indecisive between MCITP:SA and MCITP:EA. This definitely makes up my mind for me, I will be pursuing MCSA 2008 and will be happy to recertify on 2012 when it becomes available.

The whole MCITP thing was a debacle anyway and I prefer the MCSA title. I do feel bad for anyone who already got the MCITP:EA, that will never have any market share now.

I am ambivalent about the new MCSE title, will wait and see.

petedude

vsecgod wrote: »

wow...whoever at Microsoft thought this naming scheme was a good idea should quit and hang themselves. What a fail.

Nahh, they should just go work for Yahoo.

Probably the same person who named a desktop OS as Vista!

amplify

I also just got a 2 for 1 exam voucher for the MCSA 2008 path which will also include a voucher for one of the MCSE Cloud exams when they become available so I have to say I am liking this change quite a lot.

erpadmin

amplify wrote: »

I do feel bad for anyone who already got the MCITP:EA, that will never have any market share now.

You don't have to feel bad for me; thankfully there is no certification on the planet that will define me or my career (even the ones that really rake in the big bucks like a CCIE, CISSP and/or the PMP.)

Thanks to your link, I will go ahead and do light prepping for the the 646 (If it's a mashup of 640/642 I should be able to knock that out in one sitting.) That will give me the MCSA I should have gotten several years ago (and again, no one gives a ---- about what the letters means...it was always about the letters themselves, hence this change.) Then at some point, I can work on the "MCSE."

chopsticks

amplify wrote: »

I am currently studying for 70-640 and had been indecisive between MCITP:SA and MCITP:EA. This definitely makes up my mind for me, I will be pursuing MCSA 2008 and will be happy to recertify on 2012 when it becomes available.

The whole MCITP thing was a debacle anyway and I prefer the MCSA title. I do feel bad for anyone who already got the MCITP:EA, that will never have any market share now.

I am ambivalent about the new MCSE title, will wait and see.

That's my plan too.

amplify

erpadmin wrote: »

I will go ahead and do light prepping for the the 646 (If it's a mashup of 640/642 I should be able to knock that out in one sitting.)

Unfortunately it isn't. Good job not being defined by your certs though.

Nobylspoon

I confirmed with a Microsoft rep that the MCITP:EA can be upgraded to MCSE: Personal Cloud with just 2 exams (Dont have to do 70-646). If It wasn't required for my degree, I would just get MCITP:SA instead but oh well

tpatt100

Nobylspoon wrote: »

I confirmed with a Microsoft rep that the MCITP:EA can be upgraded to MCSE: Personal Cloud with just 2 exams (Dont have to do 70-646). If It wasn't required for my degree, I would just get MCITP:SA instead but oh well

That's good to hear at least with the upgrade. Maybe with the recert requirements people will just focus on quality rather than quanity when it comes to getting certs. I remember my employer sending me to get my CCNA over 10 years ago and I was like "uh ok sure I guess".

erpadmin

amplify wrote: »

Unfortunately it isn't. Good job not being defined by your certs though.

I liked the testlets from the 647 and did very ok with that. The 647 was pretty much testing on 640, 642 and 643. I imagined the 646 is pretty much the same but with just the 640 and 642.

I would very well look at the 646 objectives and I still have my notes on the 640 and 642.

Seriously, I think it is a very good job not being defined by certs...I just wish the grand majority of folks who made this thread the most popular on TE (right now) felt the same way. I've just been focused on school and work right now, but I do get an unwelcome break in the summer. I could dedicate some time to the 646 for several weeks. Or in my case, by what, June 30th? I got my little voucher thingy. [thanks for that.]

Nobylspoon wrote: »

I confirmed with a Microsoft rep that the MCITP:EA can be upgraded to MCSE: Personal Cloud with just 2 exams (Dont have to do 70-646). If It wasn't required for my degree, I would just get MCITP:SA instead but oh well

I trust your word, but I would need to see this reconciled to paper (or in our case, on Microsoft's site.)

In my case, I would like to see an upgrade from the MCITP: Database Administrator 2008 to this MCSE SQL 2012 thingy too.

konvict

In other NEWS

Cert World: Microsoft's New Certs for The Cloud

paul78

N2IT wrote: »

I believe a residual effect will be employers in the future will be asking for less and less certifications. Since less people will have a lesser amount of them on average, this will foster a work force who doesn't have to consistently spend money to provide their knowledge in a particular skill set via certifications.

Oh - when I read this, I was just thinking the opposite. Like you, I believe that all certs should have a cap or mandatory continuing education component as you do.

I thought you stated it quite well when you said that "This will give you an additional advantage applying for jobs and using your certifications as leverage. The days of alphabet soup are going to be harder and harder to keep up with. Thank God for that! This certification monster has been so devalued by everybody and their brother getting every cert known to man, just to do it."

Because Microsoft does not have such requirements - where I work there is zero interest in ever requiring that a job candidate have a Microsoft cert - for most certs for that manner.

veritas_libertas

I don't know if anyone saw this or not:

MCSE: Reinvented for the Cloud - Born to Learn - Born To Learn - Born to Learn

N2IT

@Paul

Most enterprise environments I have worked in usually corporate really have put more emphasis on security and networking certifications. A lot of the Windows guys had degree related to IT, but not many certifications.

One field that is seemingly increasing for required certifications is security. A lot of the security positions I have skimmed over mention the CISSP repeatedly. Almost like the PMP to Project Management.

phoeneous

So would finishing mcse:03 be a really dumb idea? I just need 293, 294, and 297. Work will pay for it all and half of my environment is still 03.

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

One field that is seemingly increasing for required certifications is security. A lot of the security positions I have skimmed over mention the CISSP repeatedly. Almost like the PMP to Project Management.

Both the CISSP and PMP have (in my opinion) equal weight; just in different areas which need no further explanation. While having both at some point is very possible, I would prefer to deal with one out of the two. In my case, I lean more towards the PMP as that is more in line with my career goals than CISSP, though I could easily see myself dealing with that as well.

phoeneous wrote: »

So would finishing mcse:03 be a really dumb idea? I just need 293, 294, and 297. Work will pay for it all and half of my environment is still 03.

There is no point to finishing MCSE 2003, even if your environment is still on 03. Those servers will eventually be upgraded to 2008 R2 at some point (and most likely, by "upgrade" you will be replacing those servers as they are most likely not on 64-bit servers.)

Since you're an MCSA 2003, you can upgrade to the MCITP:SA (which will be an MCSA:200 and then work on getting your MCSE 2008 by taking three exam. Because in the end...the MCSE was pretty much what you were after all along--you might as well do it on current technology.

N2IT

@ERP

Honestly a lot of the certifications are "feel good" certifications. They bring value in the sense of learning, but in return on $$$ most stall out from what I have seen. The two you have mentioned are not in that class of certifications. Of course there are exceptions to everything, an example would be if you fabricated on your application or if you barely get by and "really" don't have the experience.

Out of my certification I could go without any of them and probably be in the same place as I am now. (Which is kind of pathetic to be honest) Maybe 1-2 certifications just to add points to the resume. Where I am at now recognizes Six Sigma and the PMP and actually even mentions the CAPM on some job posting. I think the later is more of the exception at the place I work.

The ITIL certs seem to be "ok", but hasn't brought much return either. They are the equivalent of reading a master level text book. So some knowledge has been learned but are you that much better off in your role?

Obviously I am going through a masters program which is teaching my quite a bit, I am thankful for that.

However I want to get back to the basics, just reading books and learning that way. Not having to test all the damn time. It gets old and at the end of the day it doesn't do a whole lot. At least not much in my space.

paul78

N2IT wrote: »

@Paul

Most enterprise environments I have worked in usually corporate really have put more emphasis on security and networking certifications. A lot of the Windows guys had degree related to IT, but not many certifications.

One field that is seemingly increasing for required certifications is security. A lot of the security positions I have skimmed over mention the CISSP repeatedly. Almost like the PMP to Project Management.

Right - I agree. I work for a Fortune 500 corporation and those are a few of the certifications that are considered of value (Cisco, ISC2, ISACA, GIAC, PMI). It's really the Microsoft and Comptia certs that I was referring to. I tend to look at certs as proof of education obtained instead of proof of experience obtained. Even a cert like CISSP, CISM/CISA, CIPP which pretty much all my counterparts have are treated as a acknowledgement that the person understands the nonmenclature which would be used.

phoeneous

erpadmin wrote: »

There is no point to finishing MCSE 2003, even if your environment is still on 03. Those servers will eventually be upgraded to 2008 R2 at some point (and most likely, by "upgrade" you will be replacing those servers as they are most likely not on 64-bit servers.)

Since you're an MCSA 2003, you can upgrade to the MCITP:SA (which will be an MCSA:2008 and then work on getting your MCSE 2008 by taking three exam. Because in the end...the MCSE was pretty much what you were after all along--you might as well do it on current technology.

I think I'm still going to take them, for personal reasons. And since work is paying for it then the only thing I have to lose really is time. If I work hard enough, I think I can pass all 3 in under 2 months given my knowledge and experience.

N2IT

@Paul

I've noticed ISACA a lot more lately. Before moving to Rochester MN I was working as a team lead over a project and a service engagement. During my review I asked if their were any training I could take that he (my boss) believed would add value. The first being PMP no surprise there and the second was COBIT Foundation. I had heard of the framework, but never really explored it. After doing additional research on COBIT, it makes a lot of sense, the processes snaps right into ISO 20000 and ITIL service management framework. I'm not currently pursuing the certification but started reading the free PDF from their website.

elad123

Has anyone been able to find any more information relating to how recertification is going to work? I have a bad feeling its going to end up being a huge mess, I'm not really convinced these types of Microsoft exams are suited to recertification in the same way the CCNA is for example.