Western Governors University Questions and Answers / Threads related to WGU

erpadmin

mbarra wrote: »

Get a student ID from WGU the 646 is available in the academic version for $60.00. I have taken a few this way.

This works for me!! This *may not* work for those who want to purchase CompTIA vouchers (I think you can only get those directly from the academic institution).

In MS's case, I can get the 72 exams from Prometric provided I show proof that I'm a student, like a student ID. If you don't have a WGU Student ID you can request one by logging into the portal, clicking on the resources tab, and find "Request my Student ID" on the left hand side. You will need a scanned passport photo.

Academic Exam (072) Policy
Academic exams are only offered to students and faculty members currently affiliated with an academic institution. In order to book an academic exam, you must provide a valid Academic ID number in a form of Student Id number or Faculty Id number and the name of your academic institution.
In addition, you must present a valid student ID/faculty ID, transcript, tuition receipt or class schedule (within the last year) along with a valid photo ID to verify your current affiliation with an academic institution or ITA when taking your test. Failure to do so will result in cancellation of your appointment.
Student exam prices vary by region and are not available in China or India.

mbarra thanks! You get rep for this, as I really wanted to pay the discounted price and take the 646.....I can also take the SQL Server exams as well!!

earweed

The real difference between the 2: NA you get the MCITP:SA while NDM you get the MCITP:EA
MCITP:SA -exams 70-680, 70-640, 70-642, 70-646
MCITP:EA - exams 70-680, 70-640, 70-642, 70-643, 70-647

erpadmin

earweed wrote: »

The real difference between the 2: NA you get the MCITP:SA while NDM you get the MCITP:EA
MCITP:SA -exams 70-680, 70-640, 70-642, 70-646
MCITP:EA - exams 70-680, 70-640, 70-642, 70-643, 70-647

Yes, and since it's just one test after the EA (because I plan on taking 680 DEAD last...I'm stalling it by throwing the 646 on...lol), I'll have two MS certifications instead of one. (I don't need the extra emphasis on my WGU degree....NDM is plenty).

(Much like I wanted with the MCSA/MCSE...except MS got smart and remembered they were greedy....no overlapping to get multiple certifications.... )

replica21 wrote: »

Bump. Anyone with any advice on this?

I would even suggest you start out with the regular BS:IT degree. You get a broader idea of IT in general and if you did want/need to specialize, you could do it on your own.

In my case, when choosing between NDM and BS:IT, I decided that I wanted NDM because I wanted an MCSE-like certification. (MCITP:EA). I will also go for the 646 so that I have an MCSA-like certification (MCITP:SA).

Arysta

replica21 wrote: »

Bump. Anyone with any advice on this?

I'd recommend you go to the WGU website and look at the certifications each degree offers. Google the ones that differ between each program, read up on them, and see which ones you'd be most interested in getting. Those certs will drive your job search once you graduate. That was my basic strategy.

Excellent1

erpadmin wrote: »

I would even suggest you start out with the regular BS:IT degree. You get a broader idea of IT in general and if you did want/need to specialize, you could do it on your own.

In my case, when choosing between NDM and BS:IT, I decided that I wanted NDM because I wanted an MCSE-like certification. (MCITP:EA). I will also go for the 646 so that I have an MCSA-like certification (MCITP:SA).

I see things from a slightly different perspective. The "broader idea" you mention can be quantified by nothing more than 2 CIW certs. I personally think that you are better off with going with the MS certs included in the NDM route, and then grabbing Web Design and Database design later from CIW, if you feel they would be worth your while.

CIW certifications are worthwhile, but they don't have near the clout MS does when it comes down to affecting employment opportunities. In addition, should you choose to go with the generic IT degree, it will cost much more to pick up the EA / SA certs later than it would to pick up the 2 CIW certs.

Just my $.02.

erpadmin

Excellent1 wrote: »

I see things from a slightly different perspective. The "broader idea" you mention can be quantified by nothing more than 2 CIW certs. I personally think that you are better off with going with the MS certs included in the NDM route, and then grabbing Web Design and Database design later from CIW, if you feel they would be worth your while.

CIW certifications are worthwhile, but they don't have near the clout MS does when it comes down to affecting employment opportunities. In addition, should you choose to go with the generic IT degree, it will cost much more to pick up the EA / SA certs later than it would to pick up the 2 CIW certs.

Just my $.02.

There's clout, and there's clout with experience.

There is a reason why there are so many certs vs. experience threads that will perpetually show up on techexams.net. There's a reason why I side with experience over certs.

You make a valid point on the cost of a EA cert, but you are assuming that one wants/needs to do server/network administration at all to have a successful IT career. If one couldn't figure out the difference between administering a network and designing one by just reading the descriptions on the WGU site, (but does want to go into IT because he/she was promised riches beyond his/her wildest dreams...) then they may benefit from doing the basic IT track.

There were folks here who are already turned off by the NDM track because MS changed the focus from a 32-bit/64-bit server O/S to a pure 64-bit one with very minor changes to the original O/S they were studying for. These are experienced IT guys. Imagine someone NEW going for something like the MCITP:EA/SA; he's gonna need to spend money outside of tuition anyway for labbing. (Unless you are a brilliant savant and/or going to use illegal ****, you are going to have to lab for MS exams and even doing it cheaply isn't very cheap).

The basic IT track at the very least will get him into other aspects of IT, such as databases (which is hot), networking (which depending on the market could be a dime-a-dozen), programming, etc. You do have one MS exam to take, the client O/S (70-680). If he decides that he wants an emphasis he can always change later.

But an MCITP:EA/SA (MCSE/MCSA) will not, by itself, get you a server job, or riches beyond your wildest dreams.... You need IT experience to go along with that (and for the riches...a pretty solid business plan... ).

replica21

Sorry I didn't mean to cause confusion. I have obtained A+, Network+ and CCNA certifications. I'm trying to finish Security+ right now. But I am a paper tiger, as I've never had an IT job before. So while I understand the difference in the names between the two, administrating vs. designing networks and the different certs they give, I just didn't know which of the two translates to better job opportunities or if it even matters.

But I kind of see what you are saying with the broader degree since I know nothing about databases at this time. Thanks for the replies guys!

erpadmin

replica21 wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean to cause confusion. I have obtained A+, Network+ and CCNA certifications. I'm trying to finish Security+ right now. But I am a paper tiger, as I've never had an IT job before. So while I understand the difference in the names between the two, administrating vs. designing networks and the different certs they give, I just didn't know which of the two translates to better job opportunities or if it even matters.

But I kind of see what you are saying with the broader degree since I know nothing about databases at this time. Thanks for the replies guys!

As you have probably gathered, I am not going to recommend a cert/degree based on which one will "translates into better job opportunities."

Even with your certs (which will give you sweet transfer credit), I will recommend that you try getting an IT job as help desk or something (even Geek Squad would be great) just so you get experience. Having said that, I still recommend you do the BS:IT regular track as you will gain a broader perspective from the CIW exams. (CIW associates v5 will be like studying for A+ and Network+ all over again....BUT you may pick up things you might not have known about IT....I wish I could say the same... )

Excellent1

erpadmin wrote: »

As you have probably gathered, I am not going to recommend a cert/degree based on which one will "translates into better job opportunities."

Even with your certs (which will give you sweet transfer credit), I will recommend that you try getting an IT job as help desk or something (even Geek Squad would be great) just so you get experience. Having said that, I still recommend you do the BS:IT regular track as you will gain a broader perspective from the CIW exams. (CIW associates v5 will be like studying for A+ and Network+ all over again....BUT you may pick up things you might not have known about IT....I wish I could say the same... )

You keep alluding to some "broader" overview that simply does not exist in the BS:IT track. The difference is 2 CIW certs vs several MS certs. For the money, the BS:IT course is an inefficient investment. The only reason NOT to take the NDM or NA focus is if you simply want to avoid networking. If that's the case, then it would make sense.

Also, bringing up the certs vs. experience debate in this context makes no sense. Comparing the two degrees on the basis of value, there is no inherent value in taking the generic BS:IT unless you wish to avoid the MS exams for some reason.

The experience vs. cert debate is a worn out one that ultimately comes down to subjective criteria no one is ever going to agree on. The degree programs, happily, do not fall into that category.

erpadmin

Excellent1 wrote: »

Also, bringing up the certs vs. experience debate in this context makes no sense. Comparing the two degrees on the basis of value, there is no inherent value in taking the generic BS:IT unless you wish to avoid the MS exams for some reason.

The experience vs. cert debate is a worn out one that ultimately comes down to subjective criteria no one is ever going to agree on. The degree programs, happily, do not fall into that category.

Bottom line, I am not going to advise someone (who I presumed had no IT certs AND experience) to jump into degree (with higher level certs) for the reasons/promise of a higher paying job! That's really what makes no sense! The "inefficent investment" is definitely incorrect (FOR SOMEONE who is INEXPERIENCED); you're not paying for certs....you're paying for studying for a relevant, accredited degree!!

I've been in IT with pretty much no degrees/certs that are relevant to my job for almost a decade and a half. (Since becoming active in TE, I've earned two more, if we count CIW Associates 5... ) I have seen guys (and girls) get hired into IT jobs back in the good ol' 90s just because they knew how to turn on a PC at home. I assumed the poster in question had no certs/experience in IT, (he'll certainly need experience, certs will ALWAYS be debatable and a degree is something I will concede is probably needed nowadays). If what you want is a degree, the BS:IT track makes sense as you could ALWAYS go back for higher certs later. He may want to do a CCNP, CCIE track (that WILL guarantee money, but you need experience in a NOC to really bring that home). And there are reasons to avoid the MS track. Maybe one wants to focus on developing/maintaining applications. Maybe he wants to do database administration, or perhaps even be a IT Business Analyst/Project Management. You don't need the MS emphasis for that. If that's something he wants to do though, more power to him.

My drive in IT is not the same as his, or for that matter anyone elses. There is a legitimate reason why I chose the NDM track and it is in-line with what I want to do in IT, ultimately. It is not so that I can keep the current job I have; if that were the case, I'd just continue doing what I've been doing and we probably would not have even had this conversation. However, I don't care to be stagnant, so here I am.

My point is that everyone's path is different. He's unsure what his path is, and I was just advising him on a "general" path....he may/may not care to do an MS emphasis. That's all I'm saying, and it is not pointless and/or irrelevant. We can continue to disagree, but I'll at the least recognize your points as valid.

Excellent1

erpadmin wrote: »

Bottom line, I am not going to advise someone (who I presumed had no IT certs AND experience) to jump into degree (with higher level certs) for the reasons/promise of a higher paying job! That's really what makes no sense! The "inefficent investment" is definitely incorrect (FOR SOMEONE who is INEXPERIENCED); you're not paying for certs....you're paying for studying for a relevant, accredited degree!!

I've been in IT with pretty much no degrees/certs that are relevant to my job for almost a decade and a half. (Since becoming active in TE, I've earned two more, if we count CIW Associates 5... ) I have seen guys (and girls) get hired into IT jobs back in the good ol' 90s just because they knew how to turn on a PC at home. I assumed the poster in question had no certs/experience in IT, (he'll certainly need experience, certs will ALWAYS be debatable and a degree is something I will concede is probably needed nowadays). If what you want is a degree, the BS:IT track makes sense as you could ALWAYS go back for higher certs later. He may want to do a CCNP, CCIE track (that WILL guarantee money, but you need experience in a NOC to really bring that home). And there are reasons to avoid the MS track. Maybe one wants to focus on developing/maintaining applications. Maybe he wants to do database administration, or perhaps even be a IT Business Analyst/Project Management. You don't need the MS emphasis for that. If that's something he wants to do though, more power to him.

My drive in IT is not the same as his, or for that matter anyone elses. There is a legitimate reason why I chose the NDM track and it is in-line with what I want to do in IT, ultimately. It is not so that I can keep the current job I have; if that were the case, I'd just continue doing what I've been doing and we probably would not have even had this conversation. However, I don't care to be stagnant, so here I am.

My point is that everyone's path is different. He's unsure what his path is, and I was just advising him on a "general" path....he may/may not care to do an MS emphasis. That's all I'm saying, and it is not pointless and/or irrelevant. We can continue to disagree, but I'll at the least recognize your points as valid.

While I admire your passion, my point was specific to the question being asked: the merits of NA vs NDM. In point of fact, specific to the topic you introduced (certs vs. experience) I happen to agree with you. That is not what was being discussed, however, so it is not what my response was in answer to. While we're on the subject, however, the truth that neither side in that particular argument wants to acknowledge is that both certs and experience have their place in a successful career and that there are exceptions to every rule.

Excellent1

earweed wrote: »

The differences in the NA and NDM programs is very minimal. Most people go NA because it is easier. The NA degree is designed to prepare you to be a system administrator where the NDM is designed for those who wish to be a system Administrator, or higher, in a larger environment.

I agree the NA vs NDM is minor, but as was previously pointed out, for those wanting both the MCITP: EA and SA, the difference between the EA and SA is one exam if you take the NDM route. There is a much more tangible gap in value between the NDM and BS:IT, however, from my seat in the park. Your mileage may vary.

earweed

Excellent1 wrote: »

With respect, I am not confused about anything. If we accept a baseline of no experience for the sake of a hypothetical sitaution, who is going to have more employment opportunities: the person with 2 CIW certs or the newbie with the MCITP? Of course, neither person has much of a chance these days, but the point is that provided one is capable of doing the work, the NDM is a better value.

Also, the whole certs vs. experience thing has been done to death. As I stated previously, both have their place.

I disagree here. Entering the enterprise environment with no enterprise experience the knowledge you gain while getting the 2 CIW certs and taking the Java class will far outweigh the supposed "clout" you think the MS certs may give you for a helpdesk job.

Excellent1

earweed wrote: »

I disagree here. Entering the enterprise environment with no enterprise experience the knowledge you gain while getting the 2 CIW certs and taking the Java class will far outweigh the supposed "clout" you think the MS certs may give you for a helpdesk job.

Which Java class are you referring to? Also, in terms of marketability and resume buzzword bingo, the MS certs have more value. I'm sorry if that offends you (you seem to be unable to bring yourself to admit it), but it's fact.

earweed

The 2 Java programming classes which every other program besides NA and NDM take. These are not cert based classes. They are just to teach you a programming language.
As far as the buzzword bingo MCTS and MCITP aren't even in the mix yet as most recruiters and HR goons still consider the MCSE king. Most of them aren't even aware of what the MCTS or MCITP are.

Excellent1

earweed wrote: »

The 2 Java programming classes which every other program besides NA and NDM take. These are not cert based classes. They are just to teach you a programming language.
As far as the buzzword bingo MCTS and MCITP aren't even in the mix yet as most recruiters and HR goons still consider the MCSE king. Most of them aren't even aware of what the MCTS or MCITP are.

Valid points. I'll look into the java classes that you're talking about. I haven't seen them listed anywhere.

erpadmin

replica21 wrote: »

I'm about to finish an associate of applied science - systems administration from my local community college. I'm thinking about continuing on to get a bachelor's from wgu. What program should I be going in? I have no idea what the difference between network design and management, and network administration is. Thanks!

Excellent1 wrote: »

While I admire your passion, my point was specific to the question being asked: the merits of NA vs NDM. In point of fact, specific to the topic you introduced (certs vs. experience) I happen to agree with you. That is not what was being discussed, however, so it is not what my response was in answer to. While we're on the subject, however, the truth that neither side in that particular argument wants to acknowledge is that both certs and experience have their place in a successful career and that there are exceptions to every rule.

The stuff in blue: NA vs. NDM. What you wanted to focus on.
The stuff in red: What I chose to focus on and what led to this very spirited and "passion"ate discussion.

I was answering with the presumption that he did not have any certs/experience at all. With the certs he does have, he can gain experience by taking an entry level job. If he has no experience and shoots for an NDM or even an NA degree, he may feel very disappointed, as he will, most likely, (however ANYTHING is possible) STILL end up with a entry level job/(at best) jr. level admin position after graduation. After he gets a job, gets his feet wet for a couple of years, he'll probably have an idea of what he wants to do on the IT side. The whole "certs vs. experience" jazz was clearly to highlight why he should NOT go for the NA/NDM track (unless of course he has the understanding that he should not expect a 50k/60k admin job out of the gate...). That's really why I mentioned it, and why it was relevant to what I answered in red.

Arysta

earweed wrote: »

The 2 Java programming classes which every other program besides NA and NDM take. These are not cert based classes. They are just to teach you a programming language.
As far as the buzzword bingo MCTS and MCITP aren't even in the mix yet as most recruiters and HR goons still consider the MCSE king. Most of them aren't even aware of what the MCTS or MCITP are.

I don't see any Java classes offered for any IT major other than the programming focus (just checked out the pdfs). I think they might have recently taken that requirement out and changed it to just javascript classes.

Personally, I think it's kinda silly to not focus in anything at WGU. In my opinion, those CIW exams are rather worthless next to a MCITP (regardless of your experience) unless maaaaybe you're 100% new to computers and need to understand the foundations (as in, say, the A+ exam is something you'd fail without months of study).

jmasterj206

Actually they are. The classes are GUT1 and GTT1.

earweed

The programming majors are the only ones who take the Java class that gets a cert. All the others take a performance (taskstream) based class.

Arysta

earweed wrote: »

The programming majors are the only ones who take the Java class that gets a cert. All the others take a performance (taskstream) based class.

Ah yeah, my bad. I got transfer credit for those and they passed under my radar.

replica21

erpadmin wrote: »

The stuff in blue: NA vs. NDM. What you wanted to focus on.
The stuff in red: What I chose to focus on and what led to this very spirited and "passion"ate discussion.

I was answering with the presumption that he did not have any certs/experience at all. With the certs he does have, he can gain experience by taking an entry level job. If he has no experience and shoots for an NDM or even an NA degree, he may feel very disappointed, as he will, most likely, (however ANYTHING is possible) STILL end up with a entry level job/(at best) jr. level admin position after graduation. After he gets a job, gets his feet wet for a couple of years, he'll probably have an idea of what he wants to do on the IT side. The whole "certs vs. experience" jazz was clearly to highlight why he should NOT go for the NA/NDM track (unless of course he has the understanding that he should not expect a 50k/60k admin job out of the gate...). That's really why I mentioned it, and why it was relevant to what I answered in red.

Ya, I plan on getting an entry level support position after this semester ends and work at it for a couple years while I finish the bachelors at wgu. I think I have a pretty decent background as I've taken classes in windows server 2k8 r2, active directory and a ton of unix/linux with scripting.

I think I'll go with the one that ends up with the enterprise administrator certification. Thanks for the help!

SephStorm

Can you take an assessment (like BAC1) at a VUE testing center or does it have to be prometric?

Excellent1

SephStorm wrote: »

Can you take an assessment (like BAC1) at a VUE testing center or does it have to be prometric?

I think any proctoring site (library, local community college, etc) is accepted for classes like BAC1, including the online proctoring via webcam. As for the certifcation assessments, prometric is the default, but you can request pearson vue, as well.

chmorin

Excellent1 wrote: »

I think any proctoring site (library, local community college, etc) is accepted for classes like BAC1, including the online proctoring via webcam. As for the certifcation assessments, prometric is the default, but you can request pearson vue, as well.

Yeah, you just need to tell them that you want to use Pearson Vue and they will provide you with a voucher. I just did this for my WFV1 test.

petedude

Arysta wrote: »

Personally, I think it's kinda silly to not focus in anything at WGU. In my opinion, those CIW exams are rather worthless next to a MCITP (regardless of your experience) unless maaaaybe you're 100% new to computers and need to understand the foundations (as in, say, the A+ exam is something you'd fail without months of study).

I think it depends on what you're looking to get out of your degree.

The generic BSIT degree at WGU provides a good overview of all the basic functions of a current IT department (databases, programming, networking, web presence) and can be completed pretty rapidly to boot.

Sure, the CIW designations of and by themselves don't have that much utility, but why spend WGU tution $$ on getting name certs if that's all you're after? Just grab a good book and a test prep kit. I view the CIW exams/certs as just a minor milestone-- that's simply WGU's inexpensive way of validating your competency in those areas and nothing more.

earweed

Here is a link where you can request new content be added to books 24x7.
I've already requested the Mastering R2 and the R2 Unleashed books and as an aside also requested the Darril Gibson Security+ book be added.

Books24x7

SephStorm

Excellent1 wrote: »

I think any proctoring site (library, local community college, etc) is accepted for classes like BAC1, including the online proctoring via webcam. As for the certifcation assessments, prometric is the default, but you can request pearson vue, as well.

how is this done? the two testing centers were I am are vue, so I went to vue military and I dont know where to go from here:

https://vss.pearsonvue.com/VSSReports/ActiveUSMilitarySiteLocator.cfm

(its for military, but its basicly the same thing as Pearson VUE: Test Taker Services )

Excellent1

SephStorm wrote: »

how is this done? the two testing centers were I am are vue, so I went to vue military and I dont know where to go from here:

https://vss.pearsonvue.com/VSSReports/ActiveUSMilitarySiteLocator.cfm

(its for military, but its basicly the same thing as Pearson VUE: Test Taker Services )

Check this link out: https://web5.wgu.edu/aap/content/Testing%20Centers.pdf

SephStorm

I know how to schedule an IT exam. Its hard to explain, but heres one problem I have. If I go to the prometric military test page -academic, ( Prometric Services: Testing an Assessment) the only things available are DSST, GRE, SAT, Praxis and CLEP.

If I go to their main site, (Prometric Services: Testing and Assessment) and click on academic, WGU is on the list, but i don't have a prometric center here. In fact, when I go to locate a test center, there isnt one in this country.

I do the same thing on vue:

(https://vss.pearsonvue.com/VSSReports/ActiveUSMilitarySiteLocator.cfm) I click on academic, I see nothing I recognize.

(https://wsr.pearsonvue.com/programs/) main site, academic, WGU is not on the list, so I cant proceed.